[deleted]

ugh, don't upvote people from /r/conspiratard

edit: who ever could be downvoting me? lol

Edit: wow, really struck a nerve on that one

sorry we make more sense than actual conspiratards

Look, I have no problem challenging things, asking for evidence, and the like, but the way its done from that sub is just annoying. I just don't see how it's worth their effort.

Its a venting subreddit. The delusional nature of the conspiracy community, the logical fallacies, the repetition of "facts" that have been shown untrue time and time again make any type of cogent, rational conversation with conspiracy hypothesizers (not theorists since theories take evidence not conjecture) fairly difficult. Sometimes we can be patient when we debate, other times its a real struggle and gets frustrating. Conspiratard is where we can vent about the extremely illogical nature of this strange world conspiracy hypothesizers have built for themselves.

I get it. I do. But I find most of you guys just go insult crazy, downvote anything that's not posted by one of your own, and just add more pointless circklejerk shit that people have to sift through. Either don't let the total wackos bother you (not you specifically) so much and just ignore them or go vent on that sub, all the comment sections over there have only like 3 comments.

Well our goal is to break up the group think over here so we aren't going to go away. Most of us realize that conspiracies with no basis in fact are not good for our society. It distracts from the real issues and solutions, people who were involved in a tragedy or were just doing their job get harrassed (sandy hook, 9/11), and people get killed (guy who shot officers in the head due to them being in on the "Zionist conspiracy").

IOW: A large conspiracy culture is dangerous and gets us nowhere as a society. We are trying to fight it. Some of us do it with mockery, others use debate and logic, others use both.

I really dont see it as any more dangerous than the normal nut jobs in every facet of society. It may be dangerous to the status quo. The government has created that culture by lying to its people over and over again, so unless that changes, and I'm not holding my breath on that one, I don't see the conspiracy people going away anytime soon. So I guess both sides are banging there head against the wall.

its a reddit conspiracy lol

I do what I want

this response makes me chuckle

This post is gamed hardcore by those Zionist supremacist psychopaths.

• http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/179rcb/ive_become_so_disillusioned_with_rconspiracy/c83o7wg

Voting brigades are antithetical to reddit and should be curtailed. Especially such bigoted and hateful ones.

You pretend to be "truth seekers", but you're not.

That's the worst part of it all. They claim to be searching for the truth, yet when presenting with overwhelming evidence of the truth they ignore it to fit their preconceived notions.

Yeah, what they appear to seek is validation for their world view and not a shred of evidence to the contrary will be examined rationally.

Sounds like your average conspiracy theorist

There are truth seekers. There are also idiots.

The "doing" is more important than claiming the label. A guy who says he is a chef but never makes food is not a chef. A guy who says he's a farmer but never grows or raises anything is not a farmer.

Yet you're posting here.

So?

/r/conspiracy has gained popularity. it's not it's fault it is overrun with the misinformed willing to believe anything. at least they want to believe in something. better than apathy.

No, inaction can be better than incorrect action. Just ask any EMT.

Applies to science, too: if you don't even properly identity your variables and hypotheses, you can't attempt to control for anything to rule out mistakes.

Running off half-cocked is what politicians do, and it's part of the reason why this country's such a mess. It's all 'welfare this' and 'gun that' and none of them care what a comprehensive look at what any honest analysis of data might reveal.

Data doesn't vote, but emotions sure do.

Shill.

Source?

For what?

your overwhelming evidence

shilldaily.com

Overwhelming evidence of the truth would be on the security camera footage we don't get to see and is never brought up by media.

Please just leave. You don't know what you're talking about.

He makes a good point though....

No he doesn't.

He really doesn't.

Where is the security camera footage? It's just like 9/11 in that respect...

you do realize that when a building is completely destroyed like the WTC, and nothing remains, that there will be no security footage? you can't get footage from a network of cameras if the network itself goes up in smoke

He's referring to the pentagon... also it applies to 7/7

I dont want to see the kids killed. I just want to see the video of Adam walking around with the guns and firing off screen. I 100% believe children were slaughtered. But I dont believe it happened the way they are claiming it happened. All the circumstantial evidence is gut wrenching. I feel like if this can be exposed as gov't corruption, then real change could happen in order to stop other gov't corruption. Like rigged elections. Media manipulation. etc...

What the hell are you talking about? These kids were murdered in some other way? What incentive would there be to lie? And don't say "to disarm people."

That is retarded. This is certainly not a 9/11 type thing where anyone would benefit in such a way to stage a conspiracy of this magnitude.

Either you believe there were 26 murders at the school or not. It's binary. There's no fucking middle ground where the invader from Blackmanistan rides in on a drone and decimates them with a universal healthcare gun.

Blackmanistan

http://i.imgur.com/MRbdFQa.gif

It is Bill Maher's line, but I love it. :)

believe what you want.

If you can give me one possible, plausible way this is "government corruption" I will buy you a scotch, son.

Disarming the population is the reason.

Why couldn't they just buy senators then?

How is this, in any way, the best option to do that? The Supreme Court has already ruled, twice, that keeping handguns is protected by the US Constitution. Additionally, the vast, vast majority of Americans agree that long guns are needed for hunting.

The only think that is likely to come out of this legislation wise is the limit to 10 round clips magazines and maybe an "assault" weapons ban (exactly like the previous one). But that is actually a pretty sensible limit, which already exists in a few states so if the Government wanted to implement that federally they probably could have without this.

Americans agree that handguns need to be allowed for personal protection, and long guns need to be allowed for hunting/sport shooting. So there is no amount of mass shooting (no matter how tragic) that will change this. Additionally, the murder rate in the States (while still insanely high compared to other industrialized nations) is declining and has been for over 20 years.

There is absolutely 0 chance that anybody looking to dream up a "false flag" attack which would justify disarming the population would choose this method. There probably will be a ban on AR-15 rifles and other "assault" weapons, as well as a limit on clip magazine size to 10 rounds. But if you asked anybody what it would take to get that passed before December 14, percisley nobody would have said "about 20 6 year-olds being gunned down in their school".

edit:fixed shit

It's not a clip. It's a magazine.

Very true. Fixed.

This would literally be the most retarded way to do that. But whatever.

There is no video of Adam Lanza shooting, because unlike in films, even if there are press there, they won't fucking try to follow and film a lunatic with a gun!

security camera's at the school.

I agree if there is footage of him in the school they should show it. The murders happened in the classrooms, so there won't be footage of that. But them not releasing footage doesn't instantly cry "TEH NWO J00ISH GOVERNMENT DID IT TO STILL GUNS AMIRITE?", which tends to be the leap made by some.

The ignorance of this comment and its 9 upvotes *is shocking. You r/conspiratard vote-gamers are profoundly naive.

Please explain how I'm being naive as a pose to just trying to insult me. Also please explain how we are vote-gamers. Just because a dumb comment got downvoted doesn't mean a call to arms was involved.

You are naive because you don't acknowledge that schools have security cameras. Being from the UK you are extra naive on that point.

You are vote-gamers. Do you have RES installed? If so, then you're clearly lying to yourself.

I agree if there is security camera footage it should be released, just to shut the idiots claiming sandy hook was a false flag the fuck up.

I do have RES, but that proves nothing, good comments get upvoted, stupid comments get downvoted. That's how it works. By your logic /r/bestof and /r/depthhub are both vote gamers for linking to good comments, as is any sub that links to comments.

I just want to see the video of Adam walking around with the guns and firing off screen.

Maybe seeing that footage on every channel and in every news outlet would be traumatic for those that lost family?

RES tagging you as "Conspiratard Slayer" for saying what most of Reddit is thinking regarding this sub.

These crackpot conspiracy theories, especially like Sandy Hook, are slaps in the faces to the friends and family of those killed. For fucks sake, some Sandy Hook Troofers were calling the grieving parents of dead kids "Paid Government Shills", and saying the Sandy Hook shooting never happened. Troofers doing this doesn't make them alternative thinkers looking for the truth. No, it just makes them ideological assholes.

When the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?

Personally, my opinion is in a constant state of flux that modifies as the information available to me changes. I'd like to think that most tin foil hat enthusiasts feel the same but I doubt it.

Well, my opinion changes only when there are Jew developments from reputable sources. Fact-free zones like random YouTube channels, all Alex Jones outlets, 9/11 Truther sites, and other sites like Natural News don't sway me the slightest bit.

R/Conspiracy needs to learn what a credible source really is. Journalism is based on reputation given from impartial reporting. When a journalist reports a falsehood, they lose credibility. This is why screaming assholes like Alex Jones and random YouTube channels warning of impending doom have zero journalistic credibility.

True. and you need to understand that there are paid people spreading disinformation, posing an authoritiative but crazy conspiracy theorists. It takes a very small budget to discredit entire movements. If you're malicious and crafty you can wreak havok in our information flush world.

Well, my opinion changes only when there are Jew developments from reputable sources.

Wow.

When a journalist reports a falsehood, they lose credibility.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Where is your credibility god now?

Wow.

I guess the satire over here in /r/BlameTheJews /r/Conspiracy was lost on you in regards to the bold.

Where is your credibility god now?

Oh I'm sorry. Did I forget to mention I'm a liberal who disbelieved the whole WMD bullshit from the beginning. That information was supplied to the press by an Administration that wanted to start a war with Iraq from the beginning. The real journalists (almost completely on the Left) were the ones critical of the information provided that inspectors found jack fucking shit while in Iraq.

Unlike the fringe types here who were masturbating over the idea of Planted Explosives and 9/11 being some giant cover-up, I was a Lefty who saw an incompetent Bush Admin who lied their way into war.

FYI, that guy has repeatedly expressed his desire to see billions of people die simply because they don't share his faith in the 9/11 official story. Dude's a psychopath.

• http://www.reddit.com/r/NolibsWatch/comments/10k2w4/hatefilled_911_faither_uronpaulsucks_repeatedly/

Truthers can go fucking kill themselves for all I care.

If its Truther shit, the makers of it can kindly end their lives, like I said.

Yes, those directors can still kindly end their worthless fucking lives, as should all Truthers.

- /u/RON-PAUL-SUCKS

Wait, there are billions of 9/11 truthers? How did you arrive at that figure?

Far more than two billion people around the world question the events of 9/11 (some of them are still getting bombed to "avenge" it.) Dude wants them all to commit suicide for thinking differently than he does. Psychopathic comments.

I was just curious if you had a source for the number. I can agree it's a shitty sentiment on his part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

That's all I wanted. Thanks for the link!

The data was in the original link which I guess you didn't read. You're welcome regardless.

some of them are still getting bombed to "avenge" it.

You mean the people who explicitly took credit for the attack?

Nope.

There are not more than 2 billion "truthers". Saying "I don't know who was behind 9/11" does not make you a "truther". It may mean you don't know much about it and/or don't give a shit. 29% of those polled believed it was the US, Israel or Other behind 9/11. World's population in 2008 was 6.7 billion less however many of those are children less however many of those have no knowledge of 9/11 and I think we arrive at a lot less than 2 billion.

But this is off topic so who gives a shit anyway. Downvoted myself for that.

And the best part is, if you dare disagree with the conspiracy hivemind you're automatically a 'shill', whatever that is.

But......paid shills.

I'm going to disagree with you. The media inconsistencies are atrocious. There are so many unanswered questions and issues that are being left silent. To top it off we were all blindly lead into an assault weapons ban even though an assault weapon was not used at Sandy Hook.

If it wasn't a rigged event then at bare minimum it was a very convenient event.

I love how this is the top comment on a forum for conspiracy theories. I think you're a douchebag, honestly. The ignorance in how you group all of the "truth-seekers" into a collective of sub-human scum is actually, almost humorous, if it wasn't at the same time depressing to know people like you are out there. That is judging you on the same exact grounds you have just judged me on, and that is no ground at all. Please, dont reply with some asshole response like I'm a monster for questioning the deaths of small children, by a man who the media is telling us has been "off the grid" for 3 years. NOBODY is off the grid in this day and age and it's idiotic to think the fucking FBI can't recover anything from his hard drive. Its fucking moronic for idiots like you to take an overpaid news anchor's word for it. Christ al-fucking-mighty I wish people would think with their own fucking brain instead of taking another mans word for it. At least the guys with debunked theories have the balls to think for themselves..... much more than you so eloquently displayed in your comment.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

Look at you Mr. Linguistic. How do you do it?

Type every word I use into an online thesaurus.

S H I L L ^ ^ ^

Why are you even on this subreddit?

If you don't like this subreddit, leave.

I think people like the subreddit just fine, they simply think you are a cocksucker.

This isn't your YouTube channel, so you have to put up with dissenting facts.

Or voice his opinion like everyone else.

Mostly they are lending credibility to the theories with their downvote campaigns and circle-jerk threads. Look what they do to you for questioning them.

Doing the Lord's work.

This post should not have been downvoted so much. it should have been upvoted and challenged.There is nothing wrong with asking for evidence and opinion. As a community /r/conspiracy should welcome these style of posts and use them as an opportunity to argue and debate.

No-one here wants their preconceived notions challenged, that's why the post was hit so hard.

Irony.

Double irony.

unfortunately there's a loud minority on this subreddit that refuse to respect other peoples opinions. If you've got a legitimate rebuttal to a claim, then let it be heard in an unbiased light. If not, keep your mouth shut.

That's what these conspiracy theorists are about. They find the weirdest explanation for things, believe it for whatever reason, and "FUCK YOU I'M RIGHT!!!!" If you dare disagree.

What do you believe?

Why do you believe it?

I believe the most sensible occurrence in any given situation. I analyze all of the evidence, and come to my conclusion. I don't automatically think that everything was performed by a dark hand or the government. I actually have sense.

there really is a loud majority across the internet that won't allow people to give opinions. conspiracies are things that are really meant to cause debate

The problem with most people on /r/conspiracy - the ones who actually take it seriously - is not that there are legitimate events deserved of suspicion, but that there is a hardcore group of people here who are absolutely, 100% convinced that every single national tragedy/event are all connected to one another. When you adopt this system of beliefs, you stop looking for hard evidence and instead just accept everything that helps reinforce that belief system. It's unfortunate because I don't believe all "conspiracies" are deserved of scorn like most of my friends over in /r/conpiratard - only the stupid ones like this Sandy Hook shit.

my friends over in /r/conpiratard

Shitty friends you have there.

People who questioned 9/11 after that happened were looked down on. I looked down on them. I regret it. If you can't admit there are some crazy inaccuracies and a lot of questions left unanswered, then it is you who is not open to debate. Like the Popular Mechanics article, the debunking misses way too many of those questions, leaving me to say, show me a picture of Lanza at the school.

Show me a picture of planes hitting the towers. oh wait, we have lots of those and people here still think it's fake.

You'll always find a way to never be satisfied. There will always be something to find that just throws everything into doubt. Did 2 news reporters accounts of with what color a mans shirt was? Global conspiracy!

ZOMG PHOTOSHOOP!!!!

Show me a picture of a plane hitting the pentagon...oh wait..there has never been a clear picture or video of whAt hit the pentagon released.

...strawman supposition.

Simply because some dim units believe no planes hit the Twin Towers does not immediately translate that all who harbour questions are equally lacking. The cognitive dissonance you claim to see around you is the same cognitive dissonance that exists inside you if you fail to see the bonified questions that naturally gravitate to the events of that day. Scientists, military personnel, pilots, engineers, demolition experts, firemen (etc. etc.) make a formidible case that the official story is a hoax.

In short, you would be wise to leave the events of 9/11 out of your Sandy Hook narrative.

he's making the connection to show the foolishness of so many people on this subreddit

Yeah did a plane hit WTC7? Oh yeah magic NIST facts that don't hold up in any other situation are supposed to just be swallowed by the dumbed down populous.

Gosh golly... How old are you?

Do you remember 9/11.

Ask a real New Yorker what they remember about 9/11, especially building #7...

Yes James please do. Ask me if you like, I assisted with the recovery effort alongside police and fire department. I could also give you the opinions of friends who lived two blocks from the towers and watched the entire thing go down from their apartment. So please do ask a "Real New Yorker".

It has about one third downvotes. typical of the average on reddit.

This particular event has a built-in self defense of "How dare you accuse these poor grieving parents of lying! How dare you trivialize the deaths of these poor innocent little kids! etc etc." Unlike 9/11 or even the Aurora shooting which were general-public tragedies.

This event couldn't be any more depraved or evil unless it was a maternity ward massacre.

I think many people asking questions are extremely frustrated by this brick wall of a defense. It makes them believe even more passionately that it was a cover up because the masses will automatically defend little kids. What better way to manipulate the public than by faking a tragedy that people will get so passionate about. A shooting at a college, movie theater, mall, or even a high school won't have the same effect because the victims stand a better chance for survival.

Just because a tragic event takes place doesn't mean it was a cover up.

Just because a tragic event takes place doesn't mean people should not be allowed to ask questions about it.

People on both sides need to be respectful. I agree with you that in general the Sandy Hook truth activity has been disrespectful to the victims. But I will also agree with the truthers that the media coverage has been pretty flimsy compared to other events. This is going to take a long time to cool off and clear up.

It's so clear why media coverage was "flimsy." Because the CSP decided to keep the details of the brutal murders of children out of the news to spare their parents the fucking pain of seeing on Twitter their kid was shot in the face.

Noah Pozner was shot in the face. In the face. Half of his face was gone. Half of it.

It is so obvious that the police went in, saw children who had been shot in the face, and said, "okay, we don't want their parents to hear this on the internet.

I am all for respecting dissenting opinion, but I don't respect creationist arguments and I don't respect aliens as an explanation and I certainly am not giving any credence to the idea that not reporting gruesome details to spare families is irrefutable evidence of a hoax.

they could have shown Lanza shooting the locks of the door with his AR-15 couldn't they? Maybe show him walking down a hallway? Just liek they did at columbine. I have no theories for that one, because they showed those asshats commiting their crime. Noone wants to see gore and mess, but attributing the number of mistakes in this case to "shoddy reporting" is just wishful thinking. Show me the tapes. While they are at it, I'm still waiting for the Aurora parking lot tapes too.

They did. Much later. What you have to understand is that everyone is viewing this through the lens of analogous tragedies long past.

This happened a month ago. It's not all clear yet. Many of the witnesses are small children. Police probably don't even fully understand the mechanics, much less have prioritized placating those who doubt it happened or happened how it was reported.

It's starting to come out. But it's not all sorted out yet.

But I will also agree with the truthers that the media coverage has been pretty flimsy compared to other events

How's that?

Totally agree with you. Its sad how /r/conspiracy decides to turn all the biggest news event into conspiracies rather than finding the events that actually are. I love /r/conspiracy, despite 95% of it being junk, its still good to think outside the box...... within reason.

Anytime there is anything with guns this place turns into /r/conservative

it just goes to show you the good job done by the programmers

all the ducks fall into line even though they think they are making statements of 'resistance'

Did the media handle it irresponsibly? Yes. Did the government use it to their advantage to pass shitty legislation? Abso-fucking-lutely. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing was faked for that purpose.

One thing's for certain: people get too caught up in mainstream media/current events, even in this so-called alternative news community. Instead of picking apart the Sandy Hook story, look at the stories that AREN'T getting airtime because of it. When the media hypes up one thing to the exclusion of all else, you know something shady is going on. Read between the lines instead of dissecting the lines themselves.

Don't let them set the agenda for you. Stories that never see the light of day are the ones you should worry about. We never heard a peep about banks laundering billions in drug money on CNN or FOX, right? Of course not. They were too busy covering the Royal Wedding and/or Casey Anthony Trial and/or Trayvon Martin shooting.

^ this...when they are showing what's in one hand right infront of your face, you need to be looking to see what the other hand is doing behind their back.

This is classic COINTELPRO: flood the dialog with wackjob theories that are easily dis-proven which makes the larger conspiracy movement look like idiots.

the endless circlejerk continues

The wackjob part is that it was a "hoax". I think those children died, I just dont think it was a lone, crazy gunman..

Who was it then?

JFK's magic bullet - it's been bouncing around for 50 years in another dimension. It decreed "I shall return in 50 years" and then disappeared into a singularity - which is why it was never found. It managed to build up a lot of inertia and re-appeared 50 years and 22 days later. It took one extra day per victim, plus the 5 from 50 since the 0 zeroes itself out.

Thus, you can see how the math registers. There's no point denying it. It's math.

Don't know, friend, but I'm pretty convinced there were multiple shooters based on police scanner chatter I heard, and one eye witness said that they saw two shadows run past their door. Maybe that was cops, maybe not.

There's a lot of stuff that just doesn't add up. The interview with the coroner was pretty fishy. I don't understand how a man in charge of that kind of thing could go into an interview not knowing how many boys and girls were killed...

I've been covering this story since it happened. I was in the first five outlets to even report a shooting, unconfirmed, in CT. (I later realized it remained unconfirmed for so long to enable proper next of kin notification.)

The aftermath was as confusing as you'd expect a scene where 20 dead kids were laying to be, with hundreds of terrified parents milling about.

Eyewitness reports are notoriously shaky. It's very conceivable witnesses initially believed that SWAT team members or cops were additional shooters, and these were people huddled in closets and under desks.

Many of them six.

It would make less sense if they all perceived the chaos occurring around them clearly.

You ever experience a surreal and traumatic event? Time slows down, it speeds up, you perceive things inaccurately only to later realize they are fight or flight distortions.

I believed in santa for a loooong time. My evidence was I'd seen Santa once, bent over by my fireplace, when I was four. I saw it. With my own eyes!

Obviously now I know there's no santa. But my mind clearly suggested this occurred to me for another half-decade.

Memory is not a black or white thing. It's malleable and fluid and influenced, in part, by state of mind.

A person who believes their death is imminent may be likely to see every pair of combat boots as a shooter, until they are later told there was just one.

Okay? What about the coroner?

I wrote that up as it was happening. What about him?

It seems clear police are suppressing some of the details because at the time the release of info and names was occurring, parents were still in varying stages of notification.

All knew their child had been killed, but few knew that their child had been wounded in the way they had.

As a parent myself, I can only imagine that the knowledge a child has been shot 11 times is an additional grief, and coroners are aware that condition of a body is a factor in how people react to murders. Of children.

I imagine Carver and the police both were cognizant of the fact many parents had only identified their kids through pictures, ones taken in such a way they are made to be as delicate as possible.

He said this during the press conference.

As for his demeanor, he was probably nervous to begin with as well as coming off a night of autopsying first-graders who'd been massacred and probably 24-48 hours with no sleep.

It may seem unusual out of context, but in the context of the case it makes total sense.

I think that secrecy has been a HUGE part of the investigation, obviously, and it was Vance's decision to maintain it to spare parents additional pain given the rise of social media and how it has caused the notification chain to be disrupted sometimes recently.

Again, I am viewing this through the lens of having had to write about it daily since the first minutes. In the order I watched, it made horrifying sense.

I don't understand how he can not know how many boys and girls were shot.

Who knows? Fatigue? Exhaustion? Confusion about which details were approved to release?

I would guess the third. Obviously he was not at his best.

Really? You don't understand how a small town coroner responding to an event where more than 20 six year-olds were shot, repeatedly and some in the face, would not be on top of his game?

He's human. I'm sure he's seen some shit but I don't think that anything could prepare you for that.

You can't use Santa as an example of why everything someone believes may not be true...

That's pretty weak.

no, in your case it's quite appropriate

ahahaha. you guys are all ridiculous.

Don't know, friend, but I'm pretty convinced

THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE

You took that completely out of context.

Shill.

Idiot.

Clearly I am a COINTELPRO

How I know you're not important enough for them to even think of this: you don't know just how unimportant this place truly is.

even in your original post you said it yourself. You feel bad to be associated with Conspiracy Theorist. The tactics they use are good.

Fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap

Interesting slide on this thread.

I do still accept that it is possible that SH happened as it's been reported, but it has been reported so consistently inaccurate. All of the "debunking" of theories hold as solid of ground as all the conspiracy theories themselves, which on both sides are a bit weak.

20 kids and 6 adults were killed between two classrooms, but somehow kids from each classroom managed to escape, while the killer still managed to kill every single person reportedly shot. Then the bodies were left in the school, even though there was a "body staging area" set up outside. The police are now allowed to determine that everyone is dead and that the paramedics shouldn't take anyone away, or even attend to them?

So they leave 26 dead bodies in a school until they can be taken away in the middle of the night, with no footage. Even the Columbine shootings and Aurora massacre had footage and evidence of injured victims as well as people who were dead being taken to local hospitals. A police officer responding to the Aurora shooting even testified that he had taken a girl to a nearby hospital where she was pronounced dead on arrival.

We've seen no blood, no bodies, and a few well placed bullet holes outside the school. The shooter managed to get in a school that had just recently installed the "gold standard" of security systems, and he just walked in armed with enough bullets to systematically kill everyone he wanted to?

I could believe this happened, or didn't happen, or maybe happened - the only thing I know is there is no definitive proof that can go beyond the shadow of a doubt to prove that this happened as we are "being told" it happened.

These kids were shot multiple times. Some, right in the face. Do you really think that the reason you haven't seen any pictures is because this is a massive government conspiracy?

We, as a society, have our limits. There are some events which are just too horrific for pictures and video to be released. I don't know about you, but I have exactly 0 desire to see photographs of first graders who've been shot 11 times.

This is the exact same argument that is used every time this comes up. I don't need to see dead kids, or kids getting shot either. Why is there no footage of a crazed gunman armed to the teeth breaking in to the school? Or no pictures of the front doors with any damage to them?

Something like this video from Brazil, where there is clear footage of kids escaping, some wounded and even people outside filming the kids leaving. That makes for a believable case, not just "he said, she said" stories.

Do you really think /r/conspiracy would be done with that story if there was a video?

Do YOU hear us talking about columbine? No, because there is video showing the culprits on the scene, weapons in hand. No denying that one. So, yes. If there was video (which there supposedly is) of Lanza at the school ar-15 in hand, shooting doors open with the worst breaching round possible, then I'm sure our doubts would be sated. Until then, we will keep talking, asking questions, and picking apart inconsistancies....because thats what REAL people who REALLY care do. People like Pat Tillman's mother. Is she a conspiracy theorist too in your eyes?

I believe it would lend a shred of credibility to the story. All the evidence we have right now are paid government officials saying what they are paid to say.

Of course /r/conspiracy is going to argue every minute detail, but in this case there are so many minute details and so little evidence. That's why it is so controversial.

So the families and survivors are paid government officials?

This argument comes up because it is key explanatory factor in the nature of news coverage. The reason that CNN and other broadcasters haven't flooded the airwaves with the most gruesome footage they could possibly get their hands on is that nobody wants to see it.

In addition to this, elementary schools aren't regularly surrounded by people taking lots of photos and videos, just because. The violence lasted roughly 30 minutes. Most estimates have Lanza killing himself within 15 minutes of the police arriving on scene.

There are very few photos of kids being evacuated (but there are some).

If this was some kind of government/media plot to steal everyone's guns wouldn't they want to maximize the amount of photo and video evidence? Remember everyone's reactions to the Columbine video? The horror and rage everyone felt as these guys killed students and liked it. Imagine what similar footage, involving six year olds, would do for the Illuminati?

Even if there some shitty security came feed showing him in the enter the school or fire a round or two off screen, that would just change the cries from "show me some video" to "look how obviously faked this video is".

For the record, I never thought the Columbine footage, nor the Aurora footage, was faked and I haven't heard anyone claim such.

There are very few photos of kids being evacuated - actually just one that you posted. Isn't it odd that there is only one picture of 14 kids being evacuated? Clearly someone was there taking pictures, what about the other 400+ kids? Nothing of them? It would make the story much more plausible if there were more photos, and that's what is weird about it.

Yes I'm sure those 400 kids and their families are all lying about the attack and evacuation. So bizarre, I can't tell my friends shit without half the world knowing tomorrow. How these thousands of people involved have remained so tight lipped about the US government murdering children for a political agenda that not all of them would agree with anyway is mind boggling. These actor/shills must be well paid.

It is interesting that there haven't been 400 kids or families lying. All the news coverage we've seen is just a handful of people at best, and the interviews themselves are suspicious. Nor have we seen mass evacuations, personal testimonies or anything since the week it happened. Unless you count these testimonies, which are still conflicting with the various "official" stories, but just seem like something someone would say to get an emotional reaction.

Some people say it was an AR 15 that killed all the kids, some say there was no AR 15 there, some say it was in the trunk of the car. Some say there were only pistols, sometimes 2, sometimes 4.

Then there was this story from people who actually visited Newtown, but were never able to talk with anyone related to the incident. Weird considering it's a small town and it shouldn't be hard to find 1 out of 400 kids/families that will say anything.

All in all there are just so many conflicting stories and as much evidence to support conspiracies as there is evidence to support that it actually happened. 26 people killed? An autistic 120lb kid gets 100% accuracy? With no wounded victims to testify? No ricochets, no over-penetration...yet supposedly some kids in a classroom were murdered, while others hiding in a closet in the same classroom escaped unscathed?

And again, either it happened or didn't.

If it didn't happen, the US Government, the lizard people or the illuminati have pulled of a hoax of near-impossible scale.

If it did happen, why the fuck would the details be lied about? Kids were either shot or were not and there is no reason to lie about the way they were shot.

It makes no sense.

I admit there are conspiracies, but the people who are clinging to this are fucking insane. It's pathetic that they feel the need to personally go out of their own way to insult and torture the families of those effected. Their 'truth seeking' has turned to bullying and torment.

Oh wait sorry the government is paying me and hundreds of people to call out the bull shit, never mind.

It might just be that those gun crimes were always there, but the media wasnt paying that much attention

I'm disillusioned with all the sweeping generalizations, guilt by associations, and ad hominems... sophistry or not, whatever one may think of the conspiracy theories, it is quite monotonous.

Are you talking about the conspiracy theorists or their critics? Because both could be true.

Your problem: Coming to r/conspiracy looking for conclusions. There are no conclusions here, and when there are, they no longer become conspiracies. We are here to investigate, not come to conclusions, but share the many different conclusions we come up with, compare for truth if we can, and share it. There are no answeres here, just stepping stones that may potentially lead to the other side.

Insane production and absolute 100% conjecture-free proof that Christopher Manfredonia (the man in the woods) was Adam Lanza's next door neighbor!!!: http://sandyhookwaskindaweird.bl­­ogspot.com/ No conjecture, this is real. This is a break in the whole understanding of the event, and everyone has to save as much evidence as possible before it gets swept up further. They already withdrew Rodia's registry and are saying it's bunk, but this is solid fact, see for yourself.

Either way people died..

Yep, the cmpaign got to you.

okay

Debunked? I don't think so.

CHANGE TACTICS

Troll thread, appealing to emotion, from 3 month old account?

Why is this thread full of r/conspiritards? , Im sick of this subreddit being completely filled with them, their posts are always on the front page.

What the fuck is going on?

Why is this thread full of r/conspiritards?

Blatant vote-gaming:

• http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/17abj2/rconspiracy_user_says_hes_sickened_by_the/

Things like the Kennedy Assassination and 9/11 I believe are legit conspiracies

People had the exact same sentiments as yours when people started doubting those events. Yes, if this is all legit, some people are gonna look insensitive and a bit stupid - but honestly, i'd rather keep an open mind and let others do the research, than just take the official story and be led to believe some bullshit yet again.

Even if they weren't actors, and those children really were killed, would you really put it past a government that is prepared to kill 3000 innocent people on 9/11, to kill a few kids in some nowhere town? I honestly have no idea about what happened, but i really wouldn't be surprised if it was all a setup.

I don't disagree that [I]something[/I] happened at sandy hook but is it the way it is being played by the msm? Who knows, the msm and the gov't sure are "not letting a tragedy go to waste" and using it to push their agenda to disarm law abiding American citizens.

[deleted]

Whoa we got us a full blown keyboard commando here...

chloe anderson

anyone who can have access to all the same info as i and not find the chase through the woods enough to bite on, is free to choose what they will while the evidence is out, but is not free or welcome to try to shame those that do.

What do you mean? Are you saying that you're going to choose not to believe the guy in the woods was Chris Manfredonia, father of a 6 year old girl at the school?

Is that what you're getting at?

manfredonia was described as being briefly detained by police while running "around the school," to "get to his daughter" in the original LA Times article. he is most likely not the individual running away from the school while chased by law enforcement, into the woods.

manfredonia was most likely the individual "on the ground in cuffs" described by the young boy near the fire house, which is in the opposite direction from the front of the school, away from the woods where the heli-recorded police chase and the "proned out" event occurred.

The firehall guy was an offduty SWAT member from out of town. He was detained,questioned and released because he was carrying a sidearm.

no, according to the newtown bee:

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

Was it a smoking gun?

It was an earthquake gun.

It shook foundations and changed the landscape.

Article.

Chris Manfredonia, whose 6-year-old daughter attends the school, was heading there Friday morning to help make gingerbread houses with first-graders when he heard popping sounds and smelled sulfur.

He ran around the school trying to reach his daughter and was briefly handcuffed by police. He later found his child, who had been locked in a small room with a teacher.

Right, that obviously makes sense. He was walking through the woods to help make gingerbread houses and then when police saw him he started to flee and was eventually put in handcuffs instead of just explaining himself like anyone would.

That's a story you've concocted.

He was expected at the school and when he arrived shit was going down. Fearing for his daughters safety he ran around to her classroom window, looked in and saw it was empty. He then bolted into the trees because you know, mad gunman on the loose and all. He was briefly detained, questioned and police reunited him with his daughter.

This is Chris Manfredonia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDrhhb0B5f8

He was expected at the school and when he arrived shit was going down.

There's no way he could've got to the school since the road would've been blocked by the police by then so he clearly walked through the woods.

He then bolted into the trees because you know, mad gunman on the loose and all.

Yeah, seeing a cop walk towards him and then running from a cop. It must be a mad gunman.

The point being that he was expected at the school. He didn't just randomly pop by, he had several reasons to be there.

Go ahead, fault the guy all day long about him being in the woods. What does it show, bad judgement? I guess the whole thing is a hoax then, right? lol

No. I'm just explaining how what you said makes no sense and what he did makes no sense if that's truly what happened.

He was expected at the school and when he arrived shit was going down

He was expected at the school to help build a gingerbread house. Okay, established.

Fearing for his daughters safety he ran around to her classroom window.

How did he get there? There's no way he could've came down the road or driven there.

He then bolted into the trees because you know, mad gunman on the loose and all.

No he didn't. There was a policeman walking towards him and THEN he started running into the woods. So, you're saying he knew there was a "mad gunman" and decides to walk through the woods to get around the police, but then when he spots them, he just runs away. Totally logical.

Sure thing man, case closed lol

You've totally ignored the other stuff I debunked and latched onto something completely meaningless. I've already conceded that the worst this guy could be guilty of is bad judgement.

You know that downvoting me doesn't stop people from seeing me debunking your BS.

Do you want to like...

have a long recorded skype chat or something? Because this can go on all day like it did in the last thread.

I'm still waiting for that link of Gene saying the bus driver is a man.

You'd get it if you would rather this be done on skype.

You'd be shouting the URL from the rooftops if you had it. But we both know you don't. I've debunked every claim you've made and you're reduced to saying that you have secret information you'll only share over skype.

ciao

No, you're missing the point and you haven't "debunked" anything. The point was that he tells different stories depending on the interview and that there are discrepancies. And hey guess what, they still don't make sense.

6:16 - 6:44

"I looked down and I saw six children, and I thought it was curious as to why they were on my lawn. I thought they were cub-scouts, or some children from the school doing a play. They were sitting in a regular fashion, and they-something was askew because I saw this man talking in a very loud voice to them saying "it's alright, it's alright". - Who's this man? Didn't mention a female bus driver at all. Didn't say he was a female bus driver AND this man.

6:45 - 7:06

"But then I saw a man, in a very agitated way, say "it's going to be alright". And he just kept raising his voice, and he kept raising his voice, and I thought that was so strange." - He's OBVIOUSLY inferring that this man brought them there since he only mentions him, doesn't mention any one else, certainly no female bus driver.

7:21 - 7:30

"...and then I saw a man, talking very loudly and harshly to them saying "it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay..."" - Again...

8:03 - 8:10

"...and then I saw a man, talking to them in a loud voice saying "it's going to be alright, it's going to be alright" - Boy, he often forgets this female bus driver.

9:00 - 9:13

"...and I saw a man talking to them in a very harsh way, and he seemed agitated he kept saying "it's going to be alright, it's going to be alright".

10:07 - 10:20

"and the school bus driver who identified herself said "oh there's been an incident at the school". - Oh, now it's a female. What happened to the man yelling harshly? How did he know it was a bus driver unless she had driven there in a bus? They don't wear uniforms, none I've ever heard of.

1. Why would a female bus driver or a "man yelling harshly" lead the kids to a random persons driveway instead of the firehouse which was 50 feet away? Or I don't know. CALL THE POLICE? He claims the driver said "there's been an incident". I assume the driver would know a shooting just took place.

2. The kids were there for around a half hour to an hour. That would put the time at around 10:10 or past. This is after you said they evacuating and that evacuation photo took place. Surely he would be seeing commotion at the firehouse by then.

3. Where's this bus driver? She just dropped the kids off and never came back to town, never came back to her job? Never heard of her name, never saw an interview with her. You would think such a hero would get any credit at all.

It's also funny that nobody in the media ever asked a question about his story. Nobody ever said "Why not call the police immediately?" or "Why did the bus driver choose your house instead of the FIRESTATION BEFORE IT, or call the police after receiving the children like any responsible adult would?"

You can't debunk any of this because it doesn't add up. Why doesn't it add up? Because it didn't fucking happen. Congratulations on trying to defend a story made of whole cloth.

See the story you've concocted in your mind?

A man yelling must be a bus driver and she must have dropped them off since she's a bus driver. Well she's actually a former bus driver and doesn't even own a bus anymore.

Please explain how someone seeing a man yelling equates to I saw a man he was a bus driver and he was yelling. If he had said I saw a cat meowing would you be here claiming the bus driver was a cat? He saw a man yelling. He didn't say he saw a bus driver yelling. How is this a hard concept for you to understand?

So, you think Chris Manfredonia probably wears "camo pants" to work and then runs away from police officers on sight? You clueless wanker.

How do you know there was a chase through the woods?

Right, okay. What exactly has been "debunked"?

Everything. And people had to waste time doing it.

Source?

Blind faith in authority.

That just isn't the case. And if you cared enough to mention specifics I could probably give a rebuttal.

For example: Gene Rosen's testimony is hokum. He claims a man/woman bus driver rescued children when it happened and took them to Gene's house. What they don't mention is that the firehouse is BEFORE Gene's house and literally right next to it. Gene would've been able to see commotion at the firehouse. He could literally see it from his lawn or taken the kids to it. Yet he sits with kids for a half an hour before doing anything. Oh and the "bus driver", felt it was more appropriate to deliver the kids to a random stranger instead of a firehouse or the police, and this man/woman was never heard from again after that day.

Also, there's no footage of anything close to 500-600 kids on that day that went to that school. More specifically, there's no footage of ANY child leaving the school even though there was media helicopters on scene before they evacuated from lockdown.

I challenge you to find me one other shooting that had no blood, no screaming children, and no eyewitness accounts of the shooter.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/173fyz/sandy_hook_hoax_proof_that_media_helicopter_was/

Gene Rosen was at home when he saw the 6 children who escaped the shooting were sitting on his lawn. There was a female bus driver, she was on foot and not driving, she did not leave the children, she went inside and called parents. There were no police or any emergency even on the scene at this time, so there was no commotion.

It was already established that the children left before any helicopter. We have photos of children being evacuated at 10am and the earliest report of a helicopter is at 10:30am.

We have at least 7 eye witnesses.

I don't expect you to understand any of this, especially after you revealed how baffled you are over google maps way of displaying reviews.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/178v9o/google_maps_go_ahead_try_it/c839yvm?context=3

Sorry, but this is really telling. You can't even figure this riddle out lol

Oh really? It was a female driver? Gene Rosen would beg to differ. He also says it was a man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNfesyWUeZk&t=7m16s

It was already established that the children left before any helicopter.

No it has not been.

You linked me a 13 minute video. I'm not going to sit through that and try to find where you think he said something.

Here's a Newton Bee reporter describing how students were being evacuated at 10am, with pictures of children being lead out by officers

http://lightbox.time.com/2012/12/20/the-story-behind-the-iconic-photograph-from-sandy-hook/#1

Which is 30 minutes before your helicopter arrives. I would say that is established.

The one pic that anyone has ever seen, showing what...14 kids out of 600 being evacuated by an FBI agent? Which is before the helicopter arrived, yet the helicopters showed footage of a possible suspect running through the woods? They really evacuated 600 kids before they noticed that there was another possible suspect, who in theory was looking for his child and was then running away from the school? And all we have is one picture of 14 kids?

Is this the pic you're talking about?

There were 456 students enrolled in Sandy Hook elementary and that was a state police officer.

Yes, the guy was trying to find his daughter who he believed was inside the school. He didn't know she was at the firehall. I don't know why you call it footage of a possible suspect when we know it was footage of a father. Can you blame the police for making sure he wasn't a shooter? Can you blame the guy for wanting to find his daughter?

And no, I know that picture I linked isn't the one you're talking about. It's this one.

We "know" now that it was footage of the father, but when it was recorded it was reported as him being a suspect; clearly police were chasing him as a suspect and even put him on the ground and detained him afterwards. So the point still stands, they evacuated 456 kids before they chased this guy. And if he was the father, why would he be still running away from police into the woods when he was looking for his daughter, when he could have just asked the police who had just helped evacuate her?

News reporters don't have special knowledge, they wanted a story and so they filmed the guy and said suspect. Well ya, I guess everyone is a suspect until you find out.

He went to her classroom, saw she wasn't in there and ran back into the woods. The police saw a man running and obviously that got their attention. They ran after him, detained him, found out who he was and brought him to his daughter.

I'm not sure how you expect that this should have played out? Do you think the police should have just let him run off without finding out who he was? Boy, that wouldn't be odd.

I imagine there was a shit ton of confusion at the time, panicking parents. He believed his daughters life was in danger and you want to fault him for looking for her.

Do you think he's a shooter or something? I can't understand why you guys latch on to this dearly. What do you think it shows?

You are right - no one has special knowledge and the media often and repeatedly report incorrect information. Why this is a point of contention is because it is some of the only footage that has been released of this incident that has any action at all, and it is highly odd on its own.

Disregard what the new report was and look at the video with no audio- no one who is innocent has ever ran from the cops. He gave a decent foot pursuit before the police caught up with him, and you can be sure that they were yelling after him. Do you honestly find that to be normal human behavior?

Why, if he had "smelled sulphur and heard noises", would he check on his daughter, see that she is not in her classroom, and then decide run into the woods? That is the most illogical set of actions I could imagine in that situation.

I'm not questioning the police motive, I'm questioning why someone would run away in that situation. And due to the timing, why nothing else notable has been shown on video? No kids leaving the school, no kids at the firehouse, no dead bodies, no blood...but some "dad" who was running into the woods because his daughter wasn't at school?

That is the most illogical set of actions I could imagine in that situation.

Wow, that's pretty much what I would expect. Did the guy hear the police? There was a helicopter overhead. We don't know. Did the guy do anything wrong? Not as far as I can tell.

The helicopter never recorded footage of dead people inside the building because they were inside the building.

It didn't record the school evacuation because it happened before the helicopter arrived. This has been confirmed by the photos the Newton reporter took of children evacuating at 10am and the account of the guy flying the helicopter said 10:30am they arrived.

Do we have helicopter footage of children being picked up at the firehall? I don't think the helicopter even went over to the firehall since they were trying to film the location of the shooting.

We do have pictures and videos on the ground of parents picking up their children though.

If seeing dead bodies and blood is the only way to convince you, then you're going to be SOL unless the pictures get leaked like the Columbine ones did. I bet after that shitstorm though that any cop would risk leaking them.

Living in a major metropolitan area, I hear helicopters overhead constantly. Media, police, and even the black unmarked helicopters that people are always suspicious of. I've had people running through my apartment complex and helicopter spotlights blaze brightly through my windows in the middle of the night, and I'm fairly certain I would be able to hear police over a media helicopter much farther away than that was.

The dead people were inside the building, but who declared them dead? There are hours of heli footage an not one person is taken into an ambulance, or to the EMS station that was set up. '

We have footage like this, of the August 2012 NYC shooting that was released almost immediately. This shows the capability of footage to be released in a short period of time, both from CCTVs as well as other photos being released from citizens.

Even in the Aurora shootings we see injured victims being escorted to ambulances. But there is nothing like this seen from SH. At best there were reports of 3 people being taken to local hospitals, but not a single shot of ambulances even coming or going.

The helicopter spent a ton of time video-ing the shooting scene while nothing was happening. The firehall must not have been far away since that was the nearest place that these few children were evacuated to. Wouldn't that make better media footage? Showing the amazing luck of the children who had escaped from this horrible tragedy instead of shooting a bunch of cops aimlessly wandering outside a school for hours?

I don't need to see dead bodies, but I need to see more than the undamaged outside of a school where a massacre supposedly occurred. According to recently released information, the school doors were all locked at 9:15, and the only way visitors could get it was to be buzzed in through a video system. How did a fully armed kid get through that "gold standard" system without breaking and entering? How did he walk past the front office, past the school nurse, and down to two classrooms where he murdered everyone and killed himself, without any other injuries? That's the footage I want to see.

This is a tiny town, not a sprawling metropolis where helicopters are on scene for every minor traffic accident.

These children weren't injured, they were shot 11 times in the head. Should we drag a 5 year olds body outside to satisfy you? The demands are getting more and more ridiculous. I don't care what happened once at some other shooting, it has no bearing at all on this tragedy.

What reports showed they were shot in the head 11 times? All I've read was that each victim was shot between 3 and 11 times, and no physical locations were noted yet. Also, 11 headshots on 26 victims? Seriously? That itself is unbelievable. Have you ever shot a gun?

The demands are geeting "more ridiculous" because that is how the burden of truth works. There are too many unanswered questions, and that is what my problem is. The only "proof" that has been offered that anyone has even died was testimony from two paid government officials - a sheriff and a coroner who couldn't even tell us how many of the dead were female, and how many were male.

As I mentioned previously, the conspiracy theories may not have much weight, but none of the official theories have any evidence to prove them either. All I know is what I've seen, the backwards reporting, the odd human behavior, and the massive uproar in gun control that has happened since.

no one who is innocent has ever ran from the cops

Oh, you.

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-17813399/2-CNN-video-real-place.jpg.html

Sorry, added the link with the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNfesyWUeZk&t=7m16s

Ok, you must have linked the wrong time or something because he never once says anything about a bus driver. He says he saw a man yelling, that's all he says. So please fix the link and try again because that was obviously not what you wanted to show me.

[deleted]

Yes, that's why I just get downvoted and called a shill whenever I bring facts to the discussion. We can't have facts here because they inconveniently get in the way of the conspiracy I have decided to believe beforehand.

there's no footage of ANY child leaving the school even though there was media helicopters on scene before they evacuated from lockdown

Aw come on man, I took time out of my day to address that issue. :(

Don't mind the downvotes.

I like you. There are a lot of questions I still haven't seen answered. Maybe Popular Mechanics will write an article and put this thing to bed.

Right, they're not answered, they just dismiss them and people like OP and "SuppleButt" takes that as if everything has been answered.

I'm with you buddy. I fucking hate this topic. I'd rather just not talk about it at all but it's too fucked up to ignore. Really nothing has been "debunked" to my satisfaction. everything is either two things or a multitude of things happening.

<3

Source?

Your mom.

The only things which I think have been "debunked" were planted nonsense by disinfo people in the first place - The Libor stuff and the Chris Rodia car thing.

Everything else is still 100% relevant- this forum has just been infiltrated.

Click the "hide" button.

Yet another event with ZERO security camera footage released, even though there are cameras, and nobody on r/conspiracy is skeptical all of a sudden and the official story stands and anyone who questions it is "sick and retarted"..

This subreddit is so infiltrated it's not even funny.

Questioning it is fine. Coming up with this convoluted hypothesis about a huge media, crisis actor, law enforcement, teacher, townspeople, medical examiner, hospital employee, Batman movie involvement is where the retarded comes in.

The entire scenario put forward by the conspiracy community is too ridiculous to put into words. Much too complex, way too many people, and simply delusional.

Nobody seems to be asking the obvious question: how did a "mentally troubled" kid with Aspbergers manage to achieve a KTIR (killed-to-injured-ratio) that mercenaries with 30 years of experience who drill DAILY can't even come CLOSE to achieving?

See: Port Arthur Massacre

This was a classic 'op' plain and simple...and anyone who disputes that knows nothing of killing or is completely blind.

Come on, wake up already!!

Nobody seems to be asking the obvious question: how did a "mentally troubled" kid with Aspbergers manage to achieve a KTIR (killed-to-injured-ratio) that mercenaries with 30 years of experience who drill DAILY can't even come CLOSE to achieving?

How thick are you? These are fucking children, not armed combatants.

How big of an idiot do you have to be to even make that comparison?

Ginormous, apparently.

[deleted]

What argument?

Was he expecting a nutcase with a small arsenal on him to have trouble killing a couple dozen kids? There's no argument to attack!

You obviously know nothing about the Port Arthur Massacre.

You, too, look it up genius.

Bryant killed people in three or four locations, almost all adults. What comparison are you trying to make?

You need more Xanax.

Our Bry got consistent head or upper body shots on everyone of his victims. Given the time frame of his spree, one of the shortest in history I might add, the accuracy is off the scale. Two former SASR operators were asked to break down the incident and to comment on weather or not it was plausible to achieve that type of accuracy within the timeframe. They both admitted that Bry, who from all accounts was mentally challenged, couldn't have done it and they, with over twenty years experience between them, would have struggled as well. 19 fatal head shots in 90 seconds? Firing from the hip? Rather Fishy, aye?

You act as if the only shots he made were head shots, and that's totally false. Head shots have a high mortality rate. He shot some in the back, in the leg and missed others completely.

Nobody seems to be asking the obvious question: how did a "mentally troubled" kid with Aspbergers manage to achieve a KTIR (killed-to-injured-ratio) that mercenaries with 30 years of experience who drill DAILY can't even come CLOSE to achieving?

Maybe its because he was going up against unarmed schoolchildren, as opposed to an armed fighters.

Unarmed children, who in all likelihood were huddled together.

I say again...You obviously know nothing about the Port Arthur Massacre.

Look it up genius. Read Joe Viallis.

You obviously know nothing about the Port Arthur Massacre.

Look it up genius.

How about you link it and post the relevant info? You're the one who brought it up.

Telling someone to "look up something" is not evidence to support your claims.

Oh you're mad because I introduced some logic into your pile of shit. Port Arthur has no bearing on the fact that unarmed school children can actively opposed someone who's armed.

You did nothing of the sort but, hey, if it makes you feel better...

"Logic" would be asking how this kid with little weapons experience managed to out-shoot the best SF killers in the world.

Because he went up against unarmed school children in a localized area by himself. I don't see how you can compare that to a team of soldiers going up against other soldiers. It doesn't take skill to shoot children who cant fight back in a classroom.

HE MOWNED DOWN UNARMED CHILDREN YOU FUCKING IDOIT.

You obviously know nothing about the Port Arthur Massacre.

Look it up genius.

Yeah, I mean 7 year-old kids are really small so they should have been a lot harder to hit. The shooter must have trained with some elite sniper unit or something.

"How can you shoot women.... Children?"

"It's easy... You just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell? Ha ha!"

You obviously know nothing about the Port Arthur Massacre.

Look it up genius.

I agree with you man. It takes enormous skill to shoot school children in a confined space. This is the biggest hole in the official story.

Actually, it does take enormous skill.

Do you think dead bodies just keep standing? Nope, they fall over onto live bodies.

I've trained for this in the Corps, have you? Obviously not, because the skill it takes to kill so many and injure so few when only 7% of the body is a "kill-shot" zone is enormous.

Do you think dead bodies just keep standing? Nope, they fall over onto live bodies.

Obviously this changes everything, since everyone knows if a body is in top you you cannot be shot in the head. Also, only a shooter with specialized training would think to kick the dead body out of the way.

[deleted]

98.5% lethality?

I know, right? Who ever heard of a 7 year old dying from multiple gunshots? Kids are resilient. They bounce back from that sort of thing.

[deleted]

Why don't you show me some examples?

I agree. History is replete with cases where children were shot multiple times at close range with a rifle and bounced back. Only someone with very specialized training would think to aim for the vital organs or the head.

[deleted]

Look, you could shoot anyone, dozens of times, and they can still live.

I agree. You can just aim for the extremities and shoot them dozens of times in the wrist or whatever. As long as you use a small enough gun and avoid hitting the head, vital organs or major arteries the the kid will come out of it a little gimpy but otherwise ok.

Maybe because this A) isn't fucking call of duty and B) he was killing kids?

One of the reasons Bryant didn't kill more was the fact that a lot of people shielded others from the gunfire (husbands protecting wives etc). Nobody to protect these kids unfortunately.

Not only that- how does this kid SKIP JUNIOR AND SENIOR YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL and go directly to college?!

Not ONE picture of this kid in the last 3 years, and he's "camera shy" in his yearbook?

His dad is supposed to buy him a car in the divorce settlement- and he never gets the car (guess he didn't want it).

It's a frickin' joke.

Obviously what REALLY happened was Lanza was pulled out of school and enrolled in mkultra. Then some 7 year-olds were kidnapped while the media claimed they were shot in the head by Lanza. But in fact Lanza was already dead or something at that point, and the real killer was some guy the local cops picked up in the woods.

Also, no kids were actually killed by the guy in the woods., He was just there. And the cops who found the guy in the woods were part of the coverup even though they screwed up and admitted they found the guy in the woods.

The medical examiner was also in on the coverup, and the government recruited a professional actor to claim he helped some kids on a schoolbus.

I read his mother pulled him out of school in the middle of HS.

In my experiences, children removed at that late stage all generally left due to acrimony over how their education was handled by the administration.

Nancy Lanza was a well-kept hausfrau even after her divorce. She could have easily devoted her time to homeschooling Adam those two years and it makes sense if she felt her baby had been mistreated they'd avoid the yearbook, numbnuts.

[deleted]

Thank you.

Amazing how dense people in here are, isn't it?

From the Joe Viallis article on Port Arthur:

Whoever was on the trigger that fateful day demonstrated professional skills equal to some of the best special forces shooters in the world. His critical error lay in killing too many people too quickly while injuring far too few, thereby exposing himself for what he was: a highly trained combat shooter probably ranked among the top twenty such specialists in the western world. ...Special forces train continuously for months on end to achieve a ratio as high as this, which lies far beyond the abilities of regular soldiers.

The ratio he speaks of is 90% and Lanza shoots a 93%??

Yeah right.

Well, this shows us there sure is no shortage of critical thinkers in this SR!

it shills so hard it burns, that way, you know it's working

To Nebz604:

No, you're missing the point and you haven't "debunked" anything. The point was that he tells different stories depending on the interview and that there are discrepancies. And hey guess what, they still don't make sense.

6:16 - 6:44

"I looked down and I saw six children, and I thought it was curious as to why they were on my lawn. I thought they were cub-scouts, or some children from the school doing a play. They were sitting in a regular fashion, and they-something was askew because I saw this man talking in a very loud voice to them saying "it's alright, it's alright". - Who's this man? Didn't mention a female bus driver at all. Didn't say he was a female bus driver AND this man.

6:45 - 7:06

"But then I saw a man, in a very agitated way, say "it's going to be alright". And he just kept raising his voice, and he kept raising his voice, and I thought that was so strange." - He's OBVIOUSLY inferring that this man brought them there since he only mentions him, doesn't mention any one else, certainly no female bus driver.

7:21 - 7:30

"...and then I saw a man, talking very loudly and harshly to them saying "it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay..."" - Again...

8:03 - 8:10

"...and then I saw a man, talking to them in a loud voice saying "it's going to be alright, it's going to be alright" - Boy, he often forgets this female bus driver.

9:00 - 9:13

"...and I saw a man talking to them in a very harsh way, and he seemed agitated he kept saying "it's going to be alright, it's going to be alright".

10:07 - 10:20

"and the school bus driver who identified herself said "oh there's been an incident at the school". - Oh, now it's a female. What happened to the man yelling harshly? How did he know it was a bus driver unless she had driven there in a bus? They don't wear uniforms, none I've ever heard of.

1. Why would a female bus driver or a "man yelling harshly" lead the kids to a random persons driveway instead of the firehouse which was 50 feet away? Or I don't know. CALL THE POLICE? He claims the driver said "there's been an incident". I assume the driver would know a shooting just took place.

2. The kids were there for around a half hour to an hour. That would put the time at around 10:10 or past. This is after you said they evacuating and that evacuation photo took place. Surely he would be seeing commotion at the firehouse by then.

3. Where's this bus driver? She just dropped the kids off and never came back to town, never came back to her job? Never heard of her name, never saw an interview with her. You would think such a hero would get any credit at all.

It's also funny that nobody in the media ever asked a question about his story. Nobody ever said "Why not call the police immediately?" or "Why did the bus driver choose your house instead of the FIRESTATION BEFORE IT, or call the police after receiving the children like any responsible adult would?"

You can't debunk any of this because it doesn't add up. Why doesn't it add up? Because it didn't fucking happen. Congratulations on trying to defend a story made of whole cloth.

Oh, wow, witness accounts surrounding a tragic event are often confused and incomplete.

Great job solving it Sherlock. Go get your medal.

Oh, right after you explain, top to bottom, what you think happened, and how it was possible, and why.

I'm a paid shill giving you this information now

Great points offduty.. you're not going to get much love here with the reddit shill army in attendance though.

TL;DR Don't question the official story because someone's feelings might get upset.

That's like saying "Don't talk about liars, because you might upset people who have been lied to". It's absurd.

Vote-gamers have been summoned here:

• http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/17abj2/rconspiracy_user_says_hes_sickened_by_the/

Sick fucks run that place:

• http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/yquwu/you_should_know_the_moderator_gang_behind/

[deleted]

Here's some more fap material for you. Stay classy r/conspiratard.

• http://masada2000.org/Rachel-Corrie-Pancakes.html (NSFL)

[deleted]

I'm just gonna hit a little of this because it's late, but it seems all your points are flawed, which is an unusually high kill rate. First:

Oh, please. Dead people can't be offended, and words are only as offensive as people ALLOW them to be. Offended by someone else's opinion? That's your own fault.

Dead people's families can be offended though, particularly grieving parents of first-graders. Do you not see that?

Just look at the Robbie Parker footage.

You know, I've actually done a large series on this very issue for the site I write for, which is well-trafficked albeit independent.

I have consulted with four mental health experts specifically about Parker's affect in the clip, since it is such a big flashpoint for you guys.

All have confirmed it is exactly in line with behavior of a person in shock.

Where did you study medicine?

He then huffs and puffs his way into his character. Why did he feel it necessary to change faces? Clearly, he was aware he wasn't ready. He was conscious of that. He was conscious of putting on a sad face, a performance.

Can we also note this would be the world's shittiest conspiracy if the puppet masters couldn't control for this simple aspect of the alleged ruse? Come off it.

He even asks "should we start? OK". That indicates he didn't know it was live.

Or... that it was his first fucking time on CNN? And he has no idea what it's like to give a press conference?

That's all just for starters.

[deleted]

As I am sure you will understand, I am not giving you anything to corroborate my actual identity or link it to my Reddit account. Work is work, and I am not going to definitively link myself to my work stuff.

As for names, same thing, Googling them would instantly pull up my pieces on the matter.

I've been around houses my whole life, and I am no structural engineer.

If you are not credentialed in mental health, you are not qualified to speak to Parker's behavior and what it means.

And I am not going through your lengthy list of bollocks to debunk every claim. They are all whargarbl.

[deleted]

Well, my history is a bit blue and I am not taking the risk.

I did separate pieces about that aspect, never using the phrase "four mental health experts." Credentials do mean something when it comes to medicine, as I'd be terrible, for instance, at diagnosing cardiomyopathy.

My point is not that you can Google and find me, it is that I am preventing you from doing so. Otherwise, my co-workers will learn of my penchant for certain sex positions, and that would be embarrassing for everyone.

My job is not so glamorous that I'd lie about it, and I'm not claiming extraordinary powers. I am merely saying I have happened to have been there since the first five minutes, and spent a lot of man hours covering this story.

You can be of the layperson's opinion Robbie Parker is a liar, but it's just that- an opinion, based on uneducated observation. That's fine, we all have those, but it's certainly not compelling evidence.

[deleted]

Do you get a hard on from like, presuming a conversation ends?

*You're entitled. Doctor Lie Detector.

I spoke to 400 medical professionals who said that nobody who is grieving can even read from cue cards! just kidding. but it is ridiculous for someone to say I spoke to medical professionals, but I wont tell you who and I wont tell you what exactly they said but take my word on it.

what is your source for any of this "information? these seem just like farcical accusations from a weak person trying to feel strong by having an opinion on the internet. and to refute your "ideas" a lock-down drill entails the children to either hide under desks or huddle in the corner furthest from the door. all a gunman would need to do it enter and spray at the corner. you contradicted yourself by saying there is no evidence that he was a gamer, however, just before it you said he cleared his HDD. children are children and you can't ask for a testimony from one of them, some could have been on the opposite side of the school at the time or even outside playing gym. robbie parker is absolutely a 60 year old man, just because he looks young doesn't mean he is young.

I haven't taken a side on this issue yet. To be honest, I haven't looked into it enough.

Here's my question though. Why did this guy get 15 downvotes without even one person contesting any of his findings? This guy took time to write all this stuff up. At least give him a reason if you're downvoting him. What's going on here, seriously.

I'll address some of it now, above.

I downvoted him because he seems fucking crazy............ good enough for you?

seriously, it sounds like we should give him a gold star for coming accross like a concerned hipster metrosexual who has "doubts" too bad his statements don't wash with reality, they wash with "do it for the kids" false concern and shillery....I give it a 7 out of 10 ten dick, it's got a good beat and you can dance to it.

local residents don't even know and haven't heard of a Robbie Parker

Genuine request for a source confirming this.

And Sally Cox- another "main player" claimed Adam and his mother were at the school- A total lie.

When asked on 60 minutes how long the new security measures had been implemented at the school she said "4-5 years" when they had only been in place for 2 months.

Adam Lanza supposedly wearing a bulletproof vest- that's someone who doesn't want to be injured- so why would he shoot himself?

It's not easy to shoot yourself with a weapon that large either, and the kid is 110 lbs. and supposedly lugging an arsenal around.

He has Asperger's syndrome- yet somehow skips junior and senior year in high school to go to college.

He loves LAN parties and computers, but has no online record..

His hard drives and the other hard drives of the other computers in the house are "destroyed so bad no data can be gleaned."

The entire story sucks.

Asperger's is not an intellect-related disease, it has to do with social factors and is on the autism spectrum. He wasn't retarded, he was basically autistic.

you are aware that Asperger's syndrome usually entails a child being a genius with a lack of social skills?

It's not easy to shoot yourself with a weapon that large

My understanding is he shot himself with one of the handguns.

Someone with a working brain who's drawing obvious logical conclusions about this completely bullshit event- prepare to be down-voted by the r/conspiracy shill army.

This subreddit is completely infiltrated. What a fricking joke.

In the words of someone far more eloquent than I, there is fuckery afoot.

I enjoyed your presentation on the subject, btw...if indeed that was you.

I truly wonder how this event will be viewed in 10 years.

Really? If you had any desire to know the truth, then you could find another way to address your issues. The only way to know the truth is to question the "official" story in my opinion which in this case, I challenge anyone to even find the "official" story. To say everything is debunked only makes you look suspect or stupid. Unless you failed to mention it, you were not there, so you only know what your own confirmation bias has led you to believe.

So you acknowledge that (1) the "official story" is difficult to piece together, incomplete, and unknown, and also (2) whatever it is, it must be fake/wrong, but see 1, where it actually hasn't been published yet.

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Where did I say I know it's fake and wrong? I would assume, but thats my right. I put quotation marks to emphasize sarcasm in "official" because I laugh at any media networks version of any given story. It's ok for me to think how I want to buddy, it's not gonna get in the way of your cookie cutter lifestyle. Unless you let it. Keep with the herd OK?

Where did I say I know it's fake and wrong? I would assume, but thats my right.

You assume it's fake and wrong. Close enough for the point I was making.

I put quotation marks to emphasize sarcasm in "official" because I laugh at any media networks version of any given story.

So you laugh at the story that the Ravens and 49ers are in the Super Bowl? That was reported on CNN. You laugh at the story that Barack Obama was re-elected President, and sworn in last week? You laugh at the story that a hurricane named Sandy struck the east coast last fall? You laugh at the story that the NHL lockout ended, allowing play to resume? All of these were reported in "media networks."

No, of course you don't. Because you don't "laugh at any media networks version of any story." You selectively accept their information, and discard their information, wherever it fits into your predetermined reality. That's called confirmation bias - it's a mental dysfunction that you won't be able to get over until you acknowledge that it has occurred.

It's ok for me to think how I want to buddy, it's not gonna get in the way of your cookie cutter lifestyle. Unless you let it. Keep with the herd OK?

And now the typical conspiracy kook retort: "If you don't agree with me, you're just a sheeple/shill/in the dark, maaaaaaaaaaan." That's what you think substitutes for actual thought.

Ok I'm sorry. You are right.

If you had any preference to know the "truth", then you could find another way to address your issues.

fixed that for you

this thread has been hit with organized vote rigging. you shills only paint yourselves more obvious with organized efforts like this.

Obviously. There couldn't possibly be any other explanation.

You're doing the Lord's work son.

Nothing to do with lots of people thinking it's crass bullshit. No, it's clearly a conspiracy within a conspiracy!

[deleted]

/r/conspiratard members are no strangers to us here. tactics are known and despised roundly.

but, please, as you were.

Nice try shill, but your preemptive deflection won't work this time

It's amazing- Sandy Hook was/is clearly a fat hoax, and now everyone who agrees is being downvoted to hell.

I agree- there is organized vote rigging going on here.

The story has literally changed over and over again.

Adam Lanza supposedly shot his mom (with a gun he left at that house) then drives to the shool with 4 other guns- one left in the trunk of the car (that is never mentioned) and a Bushmaster and 2 handguns- This kid has a huge arsenal.

There is no record of Adam since 2009-

Sally Cox claimed in the 60 Minutes interview that the new security system was installed 4-5 years ago, when it was installed just a few months before the shooting by Dawn Hochsprung. - How could her memory she be off by so long?

Sally Cox of course also claimed both Adam Lanza and his mother were involved at Sandy Hook school and that turns out to be a lie.

The Medical examiner claims he doesn't know how many of the people were boys and how many were girls.. nobody finds this odd?

Gene Rosen- kids dropped off at his house and he takes them inside for 30 minutes, but never writes their names and phone numbers down? Why not take them to the firehouse?

Where's Gene Rosen's wife the entire time? She's never mentioned once.

Kids in the school when asked if they heared any of the 100 rounds fired by the deafening gunshots respond- "we thought the janitor was banging on the wall"

Kid saw a man "on the ground with handcuffs on" and other eyewitness saw "man with cammo pants and dark jacket in the front seat of a police car with handcuffs on".

All the people were told to "close their eyes as they leave the school."

The security camera footage is missing.

There are no bodies show in any of the helicopter footage and no commotion.

The roads are all blocked leading to the crime scene.

The Danbury hospital says only 3 people were brought there, and won't name who the teacher was who was released.

Not ONE diagram has been released of where the bodies were allegedly found inside the school.

The story STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN THIS SUBREDDIT HAS BEEN INFILTRATED ITS OBVIOUS.

We are everywhere ;3

Don't understand how you can make such valid points and get downvoted. We've legit been infiltrated..

Valid like your his ISS hoax theory, right bud?

You. Are. Ridiculous. Don't say my ISS hoax theory. I've never even considered, let alone mentioned, an ISS conspiracy. Get this negativity out of here. thepaustalservice made some really great points and defended his beliefs. You've done nothing along those lines. Troll harder.

My mistake, typo on my part. Meant to say his ISS hoax theory. Which I can guarantee you, thepaustalservice most certainly has considered.

In fact, it's all covered here in his blog: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/175yw2/mars_hoax_iss_hoax_newtown_aurora_tucson_all/

And please, his "really great points" amount to nothing more than taking matters out of context to fit his own agenda. Any sources of information that don't fit his (and your) agenda are dismissed, and accused of being shills.

After all, we've been legit infiltrated, right mate?

... The same could be said for you! He is presenting his evidence or pointing out the official story's lack of evidence, and you are dismissing that information because it doesn't fit your agenda. And yes, something is going on in this thread. ANYBODY that questions the official story got downvoted into oblivion. EVERYBODY who supported it has multiple upvotes. You don't find that odd?

You do find that odd? Please explain to me what you're exactly implying. It takes leaps and bounds of mental gymnastics to get where you are right now. Not only is Sandy Hook one big coverup/lie/forgery (which by the way, there is zero proof of - but that horse has been beaten to hell and back by now), but there are paid shills infiltrating the very heart of all that is true and honest on the internet - /r/conspiracy.

Also, you've been a redditor for 2 days... I'm admittedly a little skeptical of you and your sincerity.

Not that it's any of your business, but I've lurked Reddit and here for a mighty long time and I just so happen to have made an account recently. However of course that puts me down for automatic shill duty, so let your imagination run wild.

I never said that word once. Just cause you disagree doesn't make you one. Its just suspect. This whole thread is. Just be wary friend. Evidence shows they surveil dissenters and this sub is full of them.

Right, they're not answered, they just dismiss them and people like OP and "SuppleButt" takes that as if everything has been answered.

Why don't you show me some examples?

I agree. History is replete with cases where children were shot multiple times at close range with a rifle and bounced back. Only someone with very specialized training would think to aim for the vital organs or the head.

Source?

Shill.

News reporters don't have special knowledge, they wanted a story and so they filmed the guy and said suspect. Well ya, I guess everyone is a suspect until you find out.

He went to her classroom, saw she wasn't in there and ran back into the woods. The police saw a man running and obviously that got their attention. They ran after him, detained him, found out who he was and brought him to his daughter.

I'm not sure how you expect that this should have played out? Do you think the police should have just let him run off without finding out who he was? Boy, that wouldn't be odd.

I imagine there was a shit ton of confusion at the time, panicking parents. He believed his daughters life was in danger and you want to fault him for looking for her.

Do you think he's a shooter or something? I can't understand why you guys latch on to this dearly. What do you think it shows?

So?

Who knows? Fatigue? Exhaustion? Confusion about which details were approved to release?

I would guess the third. Obviously he was not at his best.

Really? You don't understand how a small town coroner responding to an event where more than 20 six year-olds were shot, repeatedly and some in the face, would not be on top of his game?

He's human. I'm sure he's seen some shit but I don't think that anything could prepare you for that.

You did nothing of the sort but, hey, if it makes you feel better...

"Logic" would be asking how this kid with little weapons experience managed to out-shoot the best SF killers in the world.

I'm with you buddy. I fucking hate this topic. I'd rather just not talk about it at all but it's too fucked up to ignore. Really nothing has been "debunked" to my satisfaction. everything is either two things or a multitude of things happening.

He's referring to the pentagon... also it applies to 7/7

That's all I wanted. Thanks for the link!

... The same could be said for you! He is presenting his evidence or pointing out the official story's lack of evidence, and you are dismissing that information because it doesn't fit your agenda. And yes, something is going on in this thread. ANYBODY that questions the official story got downvoted into oblivion. EVERYBODY who supported it has multiple upvotes. You don't find that odd?

Also, you've been a redditor for 2 days... I'm admittedly a little skeptical of you and your sincerity.