I absolutely agree. Gtfo if you don't want to have an open minded discussion. Quit with the name calling. If you only believe what the media tells you then this is not the subreddit for you.

I absolutely agree. Gtfo if you don't want to have an open minded discussion

You guys downvote anything that doesn't contribute to the narrative that (insert tragedy here) is in inside job/red flag. People get ban warnings from mods for pointing out bad logic and hypocrisy in the content that gets posted. I was tempted to create a new account to post here because it's obvious only one particular target audience is welcome here. There is no open minded discussions taking place in this subreddit.

And "you guys" downvote anything using bad logic and hypocrisy. As do I. We're all the same guys, some of us are delusional and some of us are rational just like any other large group of people. I don't see all the bans since I'm not a mod but the ones I have seen were people trolling or calling the whole sub names. Sure, those from the latter group may have been ineloquently pointing out bad logic in addition to calling people fucktards but that's not the reason they were banned, it was the manner in which they said it. Open minded discussion is encouraged (just look at the 20 upvotes you have in 2 hours) but pointless name calling is not, nor should it be. As a whole, if ridiculous theories get upvoted (because they're interesting), then the top comment is almost always a logical rebuttal. Stay here and continue to contribute please, the subreddit always needs more rational people, even pessimistic ones such as yourself.

[deleted]

There are just as many people (if not more) fighting to disprove it too. There's a time and place for that sort of debate. This subreddit is the place and now is the time. A lot of this stuff simply can't be discussed effectively on the news subs because of their sheer size, here at least people will actually get a chance to talk about why something is right or wrong. The debate, no matter how nonsensical it may seem from an individual's perspective, is still relevant. Even if none of the participants gain any new insights, the readers still can use it to form their own opinions.

I come to this sub for good and thought-provoking discussion, but I'm finding that some members are just too extreme and refuse to accept all data impartially.

Hegalian Dialectic

People consider anything that contradicts what the MSM tells them as bad logic. I was like that once too.

[deleted]

would you like to know more?

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1ciztz/rconspiracy_20130417t115134_englishmunichfan/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1cktmy/rconspiracy_20130418t013834_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1cezyw/rconspiracy_20130415t205616_englishmunichfan/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1buosf/rconspiracy_20130407t133708_englishmunichfan/

more

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1bz7zl/rconspiracy_20130409t074413_mrdong_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1bz9td/reddit_meme_murder_confession_leads_to_fbi/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1c5iib/rconspiracy_20130411t183346_mrdong_remove_nevek/

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http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/u0rs8/rconspiracy_20120523t085524_mrdong_remove_syuk/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/16hjng/rconspiracy_20130113t102012_mrdong_remove/

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http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ynvx2/im_getting_sick_of_this_place_really_fast_goodbye/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1bk9sh/9000sins_hangs_out_in_rconspiratard_preemptively/

http://www.redditgraphs.com/?9000sins&ScatterPlot&Length&Comments

more

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/172175/til_that_during_reddits_early_days_the_founders/

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http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/179sbr/rconspiracy_20130125t191611_mrdong_remove_mrdong/

would you like to know more?

0 http://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalModeration/comments/12otmi/reddits_admins_at_the_request_of_mods_from/

1 http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1404xm/in_the_final_week_of_the_2012_election_msnbc_ran/

2 http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/y1k2c/story_about_google_censoring_its_search_algorithm/

3 http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14ugsc/updateredditors_uncover_how_mods_of_rtechnology/

4 http://www.dailydot.com/society/reddit-hire-spam-ian-miles-cheong-sollnvictus/

5 http://www.dailydot.com/news/reddit-ban-porn-mods-nsfw-bribes/

6 http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/oi5si/the_creator_of_rtrees_used_the_stylesheet_to/

7 http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/b8evo/the_community_has_spoken_ive_removed_saydrah_from/

8 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ugzsl/is_there_anything_an_ordinary_reddit_user_can_do/

9 http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1al12y/til_the_moderators_of_rfitness_worked_in/

10 http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1ckj7a/scumbag_rpolitics_mod/

11 http://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/1clo83/rpolitics_mods_caught_spamming_for_site_hits_ban/

...like ignoring facts as old information gets debunked?

We have pics of TWO people shooting at cops

And yet people claim this DID NOT HAPPEN.

Is EVERY attack a false flag? You can't even tell the ones that aren't anymore.

Care to post the pics of then shooting? I haven't seem them yet

Why does everyone here assume that dozens of cops who were involved with the neighborhood shootout(s) are collectively lying? Just because there aren't 1080p pics doesn't make it untrue.

CSI Miami has made you ignorant to the real world, where there isn't picture perfect video and audio of every moment of everything that happens daily.

Funny because this is what you exactly demand as proof that any of these guys shot at cops, but thats exactly what you are rallying against saying all of these attacks are just to improve a surveillance state. So which is it? Do you want 1080p video of your every movement as supporting evidence of possible future crimes against you or not?

Shootout pics: http://www.getonhand.com/blogs/news/7743337-boston-bombing-suspect-shootout-pictures

Note these aren't crystal clear so they obviously must be staged, or not the two brothers.

I was only asking because I hadn't seen the pictures. I believe it was them. Thanks for posting them.

[deleted]

Yeah, I think that site died.

Here's another spot with 4 of the photos.. The one he's referring to is the top right photo, showing one of them aiming a pistol.

i dont see the pistol

Well, he's aiming something down the street towards police, in a classic pistol stance. Two pistols were recovered from them. And the guy who made the blog states he saw the two firing guns.

I don't see what you see. I don't see a gun. I can make out the "proper pistol stance" but I can also make out a stance in which his head was turned slightly to his right coming up from a crouching squat and pointing. The photos are too grainy for me to say with certainty what exactly is going on. I will have to take the blogger's word for it.

The photos are too grainy for me to say with certainty what exactly is going on. I will have to take the blogger's word for it.

This is why there is no respect. Why wouldn't you trust the blogger and the 100+ other people that were there? Because you just think it's entertaining, right? Or do you really think that the conspiracy is so deep and so far-reaching that EVERY SINGLE person in that entire locale was in on it? Sheesh.

You are emotionally attached to whether or not I believe in the narrative presented, specifically the blog and these photos attached to the blog. Thus you decided to get on your high horse and dictate what I am. Pretty presumptuous on your part.

I simply state that I am uncertain of what I am observing. I do not see what others see. I am being honest. That I have to take the person's word for it.

I don't see a conspiracy. Despite what their family has stated. I do not doubt their experiences because they come from a country in which practically everyone has a dash cam to protect themselves from corrupt cops. And despite the fact that the FBI has a history of pulling off deceptive events. My nose isn't twitching. The information seems complete.

That is usually why conspiracy theories take off, incomplete information or contradictory information. The problem with today, is that there is an overflow of information and one has to edit what to accept and what to reject. Now, many accept the main stream media because its has been around for decades. why not trust them? They haven't steered you wrong. Some people reject the main stream media simply because they see it a a mouth piece for the state. They don't trust the state. Now, there are those that believe in sources like RT and Alex Jones but they are just propagandists as well. I like to think it is one huge operation, the Hegelian Operation in which thesis + antithesis = synthesis.

Let the conspiracy theorists ruminate, they will come to their conclusions in due time.

dude you cant see a god damn thing in those pictures and you fucking know it all you can see is a car driving away from another car.

I'm satisfied with the dozens of cops who were involved on the ground Friday night that the dude they cornered in the boat that looks like the person who matches the pics from the FBI and also was shot multiple times is in fact who was shooting at them.

Thanks to the internet ignorance can be spread far and wide, now and everyone with a youtube account and a blog thinks they are Sherlock Holmes.

I love how you can just KNOW something based on others accounts as long as it fits your preferred set of events. but a conspiracy enthusiast does the same thing but it doesn't come from an "authority" figure so it can't be trusted.

Actually it is called common sense. It doesn't make any sense that a whole group of cops would lie and cover up something like this. Plus for some reason this "conspiracy" somehow is another one of those best kept secrets of all time, and an insider never leaks any info of a coverup. Why is this? Because there is no coverup.

i know alot of cops. they're prone to lying and doing what they are told. you dont want to provide a conspiracy? fine. get the fuck out then.

You are lying.

aha! a conspiracy!

just reading this comment thread 2 months after the fact, the guy who chimed in with You are lying has an account that was literally 30 days old. why do the shills honestly care so much what the people of the internet think? it's so fucking bizarrely insane the extent that people will go to smear anything that isn't the official story. it blows my damn mind. conspiracy theorists brings up pretty valid points: "How can you think it's a conspiracy if your evidence isn't 100% consistent?!?!" You mention how you can't even see WTF is happening in those pictures ""How can you not trust the official story even though this evidence is much more inherently flawed?!" like is this some kind of horrible joke? it's just painful to read.

Also love how he says "it doesn't make sense for a whole group of cops to lie!" what the FUCK is he talking about. Has he not heard of the blue line which is discussed on /r/politics threads all the time on stories about cops being found out for lying incessantly??. jesus fuck.

Personal attacks aren't welcome here.

I've modified my original comment and removed it. Thanks.

Then get off the conspiracy subreddit and go look around. There were pics of the two shooting at cops with a gun on one of the news subreddits.

What the fuck is your problem. I wasn't aware of these pictures, so I asked him to post them. I can't even ask a fucking question without having multiple accusations thrown at me? Fuck you. This is my least favorite subreddit you douche bag. I come here to laugh at wild accusations. Sorry for asking someone to post pics that I wasn't aware of.

I didn't say that in a mean way. If you want to take offense to a wall of text be my guess.

Definitely not taking any offense to your ignorance.

How is what I said ignorant? Your the ignorant one who hasn't done a search for the pics.

Dude. Just stop. You are an idiot.

Don't just call me an idiot and not back it up. How am I one? Cause you mistook my words as offensive? Right that makes me ignorant and stupid, not the guy who is making baseless claims.

Calm down ya dumbass. You made yourself look like an idiot. I don't have to prove anything.

How though? You can't even prove to me how. Its funny how this convo started cause you thought I said something mean, and now look at you, your the one calling names and all this other stupid shit. Which leads me to believe based off your logic makes you stupid as well as an idiot.

I don't feel the need to prove anything to some guy in don't even know on some website. Go ahead and think I "backed down". I couldn't care less what you think. You made an idiotic comment assuming I spend a lot of time in r/conspiracy, I said what I wanted to say, the conversation is over in my eyes. Goodbye.

Its cool I think making yourself look stupid on the internet is enough

[deleted]

Wat? I don't get what your saying I did? Please clarify.

There were pics of the two shooting at cops with a gun

You sound 200% convinced of that. No conspiracy. Good for you. Now go find another subreddit.

The rest of us say those photos show nothing of the sort. We'll see what evidence the police have from their dashcams.

I am 200% sure I saw pictures on one of the news subreddits. I check conspiracy for other things too besides what's going on with the boston bombing debacle. Id say conspiracy is divided about the pics of the guys shooting at the cops, definantly not the rest of yall like you were saying. Id guarantee alot of conspiracists on here agree that the shootout took place. I never said there wasn't a conspiracy, I said if he wants to see pics go to a subreddit that has them. So the rest of what you said was pointless and really didn't have to do with me as much as you were trying to make yourself look or feel better. I hoped it helped

No you don't have any definitive photos. If you do please present them. All that I have seen are photos of very bad quality wherein you can't recognize anyone. Please, make a note of this; we have yet to see any good photographic proof.

You are being delusional.

So tell me what that pic is. Tell me what's going on there and what cars are involved in that picture.

It matches all the info we've had thus far. Down to the location and vehicles involved.

You are being delusional.

So tell me what that pic is. Tell me what's going on there and what cars are involved in that picture.

It matches all the info we've had thus far. Down to the location and vehicles involved.

This is far better quality, but I don't believe it's real, even though everything matches.

Great example.

Well Napoleon, I would think that you would avoid the word "delusional". So, show us your pictures and stop being so slippery or admit you have got no thing.

[deleted]

No, I'm quietly waiting to see the definitive photos which show the things he says he saw. They don't exist and any further discussion is pointless until he can produce them.

Slippery? You're the kind of person who changes your fucking narrative or complains about a "lack of proof" or "lack of evidence" every time new information comes out because you refuse to admit that maybe for once, you MIGHT be fucking wrong. And you wonder why people come here and criticize you?

He can't produce the goods and we have nothing to discuss until he can.

I really can't have an opinion about the Boston event, I don't say the photos are staged and they may be real, but this is extremely valid and shouldn't be downvoted:

Please, make a note of this; we have yet to see any good photographic proof.

And that would only be a start. There's still many, many possibilities for the organizations involved to pull off something like that. We're talking about highly trained and organized groups with millions if not billions in funding. Get real.

The world is more crazy and complicated than what we present to our children. Did you evolve that paradigm ? There's some learning to do if we are to theorize.

Why was this post down-voted? Healthy skepticism is the core of r/conspiracy.

The problem is the discussion isn't very open minded. It's usually a shitty picture or video with shitty conspiracy theory attached. Then all the comments say "omg how did I not see this UPVOTE THIS PLEASE" or "bet the media won't show this"

I'm sick of the amount of sarcasm that gets posted in here now, a lot of it looks too forced in making theories look disingenuous. In some cases it can be constructive, but it's more likely to be misinterpreted and insulting unless pointed out otherwise.

[deleted]

Yes! Fucking exactly! I almost never comment here because of this. r/conspiracy...come for the theories, stay for the laughs.

[deleted]

I think we need politicians that don't lie and cruelty free bacon. You want to get together and dream while we make shapes out of contrail clouds?

So, you're against "outlandish theories and crazy accusations" yet you're posting in a subreddit called /r/conspiracy?

conspiracy con·spir·a·cy [kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA noun, plural con·spir·a·cies. 1. the act of conspiring. 2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot. 3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.

[deleted]

If you are interested in the Gulf of Tonkin, you should read this.

What's Wrong with Tonkin Gulf Incident "History" by Jim Treanor

Conspiracy types use Gulf of Tonkin as an example of a "proven" conspiracy theory.

Well Jim Treanor, USS Turner Joy's Electronics Materiel Officer at the time of the incident, has a problem with that. He was there.

You have come to the conclusion, somehow, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident:

is a conspiracy that isn't very outlandish.

when it was used to fool the lie-beliving masses into supporting a war against some country they could not even find on a map?

Or are 'conspiracies' only not 'outlandish' when you have finally been given permission to question and think about what happened?

[deleted]

Hmm, account 9 days old, not able to understand simple sentences, in a thread about "/R/CONSPIRACY be[ing] completely over-run by shills whose accounts are less than 30 days old. [ who ] have come to ... disrupt... legitimate dialogue."

Oh, and two consecutive posts replying "I am very sorry but I don't understand" in response to completely straightforward posts.

Right.

If it is possible to make it even simpler, for another of your "oh, I am really sorry but I don't understand replies" - or you could try "noone is being friendly", that's always a good one:

"

You have come to the conclusion that the Gulf of Tonkin incident: [bone simple]

is a conspiracy that isn't very outlandish. [direct quote from you or from whoever was using your account]

but:

while the state/media story was completely false [not in question here] was used to start a war that killed 7 million Vietnamese patriots and a few, irrelevant, American murdering invaders, supported by an ignorant public. [accepted facts].

then:

but [this] it is a conspiracy that isn't very outlandish. [direct quote from you]

My question:

Are 'conspiracies' only not 'outlandish' when you have finally been given permission to question and think about what happened? [any mildly capable high school student can understand that]

So, mr/ms "Majexx": what could any vaguely literate person possibly not understand about that?

[deleted]

Conspiracies aren't outlandish when there is evidence to corroborate them.

Iff that is what the person using your account actually means, then no thinking person would disagree.

However, this directly opposes the dominant propaganda instructions on how to think about conspiracies, which you don't seem to be the type of person to be able to manage.

The point of the epiphet "conspiracy theory" is to provide a premade conceptual container that the stupidest 80% can use to separate what they have seen from their belief systems. The existence of evidence is the direct problem that "conspiracy theory" is used to obscure.

Using the Tonkin incident as an example: it was always clear that the attack was by the US, firing on Veitnamese boats, with the USA invading Vietnam's territory, that the USA boats would have been justified in being both attacked and sunk, some or all of the Vietnamese boats did not exist, the USA's reports were false, and that at least the majority of the propaganda story was lies - as always, seen by the wise at the time and the lagging institutions (some later Congressional investigation or something, I forget) after the records were declassified 40 years later).

Evidence was always clear and in plain sight of both the stupidest 80% and those who can think for themselves. And, the truth of the matter has never been in doubt. For 40 years, however, the term "conspiracy theory" was used to disconnect the evidence from the belief.

Your unsupported assertion that "conspiracies" are diaposed to "evidence" is completly incorrect, the opposite of the truth, and displays an inability to think about the situation.

sarcasm that gets posted in here now

r/conspiritard

I absolutely agree. Gtfo if you don't want to have an open minded discussion.

Does this also apply to people here who refuse to acknowledge proven facts?

No.

This is a subreddit for people who are willing to entertain the incorrectness of proven facts as well.

That's the whole fucking point. The majority of the human populations huddles and holds on "Truth" as hard as they can.

A small minority is willing to live in the void where there is no absolute truth and you question everything. This subreddit is a place of aggregation for those people. The people who have joined recently are the type that huddle and hold on to the loudest voice to feel safe.

the incorrectness of proven facts

wat

I'm pretty sure he means that we remain critical and skeptical of events or findings that the mainstream media deems as truths or facts. There are times when even I think these questions are ridiculous, but I still prefer people to think for themselves and not just believe everything Big Brother and the corporate owned media declare as fact.

People always say you must learn from history. Well, if history has shown me anything it's that the powerful governments that have risen and fallen have always lied, cheated and suppressed the middle and lower classes. Change only emerged through the masses being critical and then eventually demanding these stolen rights back.

Change only emerged through the masses being critical and then eventually demanding these stolen rights back.

Unfortunately I think it's too late for the U.S.

I have seen beyond the veil of thought, into the cosmic abyss. Within this dark pocket of the sub mind, is where Pacif's post resides.

Epistemology.

When something is proven, it is shown to be correct using human communication and understood by the human mind. It doesn't mean that it is an absolute truth.

For example, it is a proven fact that there is a downward acceleration experienced by all objects on the surface of the earth. You can test it yourself at this moment.

However, regardless of how strongly I agree with that fact, I am able to entertain the idea that it is false. This is with regards to such a solid fact as gravity on the surface of the earth.

Clearly, we can also entertain the incorrectness of 'proven facts' like the official narrative regarding Jowhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaeve.

"proven" facts

FTFY

[deleted]

More people with different opinions

There is a big difference between people posting differing opinions and people belittling, insulting, mocking, and being purposely arrogant and obtuse towards others.

I disagree with a lot of things posted here, and i do think this place can get sensationalist at times. I'm just not a fucking cunt about it when i point it out.

[deleted]

You seem to be going out of your way to suggest what is occurring is completely organic. Might I ask why?

[deleted]

Actually fuck you, he deleted his comments.

Since you cannot actually defend your beliefs in the face of reality, you have to lable these people trolls and shills and hurtful, when in reality this entire sub is a hurtful troll for anyone near the tragedies you turn into your own fantasy plots.

You're using words like "you" and "your" quite a lot, yet i'm not sure anything you've mentioned applies to me. In fact i don't think i've ever even used the word 'shill' when replying to other posters.

And no, the downvoting system doesn't really work in this instance. Before the Boston situation, there were maybe 200-300 people browsing this sub at a time, since then it's been into the thousands. How many of them are going to be willing to have polite conversation and open discussion about the topics here, and how many are going to be purposely insulting or completely close-minded?

Sorry your sub cannot handle it when people who disagree come in...

... and create hilarious (and imaginative!) troll accounts to post hilarious (and imaginative!) troll messages.

Pls sir, read your own post history and ask yourself if you're acting like an adult.

A place to embrace willful ignorance and deny the truth. So like an online church

Reading comprehension: yours is poor troll.

I'm not a troll, I'm a government shill

Wow, do you have any tips on how I can be "above it" like you? I sure don't wanna be a sheeple.

Be scholastic, critical, and joyful.

Too late

Exactly. This subreddit is for people who have given up on mainstream bullshit like "facts" and "proof" and instead seek truth on our own. With our own eyes brains ears and brains.

Do you even know what proof means? I am in the process of completing a second MSc. What are you doing with your life?

Wow. I am being 100% serious when I say your credentials are incredibly impressive. I bet the ladies love you.

From trying to demean others' intellectuality, to weak ad hominems.

Get a life, and get the fuck out of the way of what is coming.

Listen buddy I'm on your side.

Some people may think it's weird that you come out of nowhere all angry and bringing up imaginary academic credentials for no reason at all, but I get it.

It wasn't until recently when I finished up my 7th PhD that things became so clear. That's what it took for me. Now I get it. There is no spoon.

So let's stop fighting each other and focus on what's important here.

Isn't reading Reddit reading what the media tells you since it's owned by Conde Nast? Conspiracy!

How many times do people need to be told that reddit is no longe owned by Conde Nast because of the /r/jailbait fallout. Had reddit not stood by /r/jailbait so long, or had Conde Nast not feared free speech issues would threaten the popularity of the site and they'd ultimately lose money anyway, it might be a different story, but they saw reddit as a liability.

WTF?

Reddit is owned by Advanced Publications. Conde Naste is a division of Advanced Publications. So, no, the owner didn't change, rather, it gained more control, probably because Conde Naste was not capitalizing and damage-controlling adequately.

Aaah, shit.. you're right. What a fucking smokescreen.

It's ALL a smoke screen.

I wonder how many times you thought you were right by telling people this.

Rhetoric meeh... friendly fire while mass responding to trolls, trying to waste their time with one word responses, and netting paragraphs in return. ;) Not rhetoric to point out the Conde Nasty connection.

So why would a town conspire to murder their children?

I was legitimately curious, because that was a rumor that was parroted by you and others, while the true information has always been there.

Woops... sorry.. dealing with a lot of trolls. You're right to be curious.

no harm, no foul

[deleted]

Yep, if I couldn't give the name of the arrested naked guy then I was just making him up and it had to be Tamerlan. There's no pleasing a closed mind.

Openmindedness means you might have to open your mind too. It's a 2 way street.

Quit with the name calling.

This should be going for everyone. Calling people 'a shill' falls under that.

It isn't new people that are ruining the fun here, it is also the ones with over 50 day accounts that do so. Continually calling people 'a shill', bickering, saying 'fuck you', 'stfu', etc is not helping at all.

Honestly I blame the mods for quite a bit of it. Flytape has stated calling someone 'a shill' is name calling and falls under the deletable offense category. Yet here we are still staring at them doing it.

And also these whiny threads need to be condensed. Going on 17 by now in the last few days.

I joined in the last 30 days, but have not posted/commented until now. I really feel that weird stuff is going on recently and am interested by everything posted here. I think 50% is out there and 50% is spot on. I usually don't vote, just interested in the content. So please don't discredit us new people!

Your account is 50 days old.

I'd go even further. If you don't completely reject everything the media tells you then go look at cat pictures in /r/aww and leave us alone.

The only way to beat people so hell bent on self-righteous questioning of things, and it amazes me that atheism and skeptic are among them, but alas, I know reddit too well, then I think the only thing to do is fight the dogmatic sycophantic twats with fire, and overrun their subs as well, methodically, callously, and without respect for the content, with alts, and whatever. If they're going to be children, we can play childish games too. It's all a game anyway. The real conspiracy is tricking people into forgetting it's just a ride.

The only time people go to the doctor is when the infection gets out of control. Make reddit fix this or make reddit die, because it's really just 4chan with pretense at this point.

I agree to a certain degree, but the thing is most are your average /r/politics idiots who just don't know better. I really don't believe there are now hundreds of shills all of a sudden, but there is an influx of people from other subs, mostly from /r/politics and they are bringing their crap over to conspiracy.

and they are bringing their crap over to conspiracy.

I believe the shit flows in opposite direction.

Not only that, most posts are downvoted into oblivion. This is the only sub where the top threads of the day are under 200 upvotes with only 20% approval. WTF?

I been reading this sub for a long time but comment very infrequently. here is my one bit of advice- /r/conspiracy is not like other subs- just because a post or comment has up votes or down votes does not make the comment any more or less valid. You have to think for yourself on each comment or link and can't let the voting mechanism tell you if a post is good or bad.

When I come to this sub I start by looking at new posts, rather then best or top. I've often been more interested in something that was down voted to oblivion rather then something that was up voted to the top.

Some times what's up us down and what's down is up but other times what's up is up and what's down is down. You have to make the judgement for yourself and don't let others make it for you.

Exactly. We need more genuine /r/conspiracy users to be the first to decide whether a post deserves up or down votes.

Remember, the shills deliberately go to the new ones to steer the discourse, rather than the hot ones.

can r/conspiracy limit commenting privileges to accounts 30+ days old? i dont even make that cutoff but i think it would solve the problem, correct? i just want to see good people with genuine and intelligent questions being asked and answered........... there definitely needs to be a solution put in place. otherwise, youre going to lose your board.

[deleted]

i thought also, for the time being-- even do a sticky to the side like a news flash or official statement about what's going on and the increase in traffic because of boston. ask people to pay attention, and know that it's not normally like this, and to be vigilant about people that respond with sketchy or rude posts, and to report. id put it under the picture, that's where my eyes go first.

ill try to think of more!

I agree with the above statement. THIS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED NOW!

This would make a massive difference I think, stop anyone voting or commenting unless their account is 30+ days or maybe even 60+ old.

My account is years old, and I post here when conspiratards post stupid shit like weed curing cancer. Maybe make it 5 years just to make sure there's no COINTELPRO. Durka durka.

Of course there are always arseholes but it seems many have newish accounts, cutting out them would make a big difference to this sub.

many great topics die an early death due to these scumsuckers

RUN HOME AND CRY TO MOMMA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0szDJ7CXQ

Then we'd better keep that from happening, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHDEArKOK3Y

Thanks for the advice, my new way to browse /r/conspiracy

I would like it if everyone that signed up since the boston bombing were kicked out, the subreddit was made private for a month, and then opened back up into the public. Events like the bombing or shootings cause such an influx of bullshit the legitimacy of this subreddit suffers each and every time.

why private? i think it helps the public to read our theories and consider them. it's good to help people think, especially if you're someone that's never questioned the govt before. it's a good opportunity for people to start asking their own questions in their communities. i support a cutoff date on commenting, but i personally would be upset not reading. commenting i wouldn't mind if i couldn't meet a date.... but as a reader i just want to see people asking the same questions i have.

I don't mean to be a dick, and you may very well be a /r/conspiracy lurker, but this subreddit has gone through absolutely DRASTIC changes in poise since the Boston bombing. Before this all started, there was a sense of balance within the subreddit itself, and you could actually palpate the strive towards answers. Since this recent Boston event, it has felt like the entire subreddit is running around with it's head cut off.

Recently there has been such a drastic contrast between clarification of facts and wild assumptions before first establishing evidence. Unfortunately, the majority of this subreddit has been bombarded by the latter, and it almost seems like everyone new here thinks that's the way this subreddit works. It has effectively acted as a 'what if' garbage dump. Traditionally this subreddit has shown a better standpoint as a whole. All this jumping to conclusion shit doesn't do any good.

I would like to finish and say I don't really intend the entirety of what I've written above to be a personal attack on you. It's simply a good opportunity for me to rant about things as I see them happening in the subreddit.

but why wouldn't you want people to read theories that do have evidence. fine cut off random people from downvoting and commenting by choosing a cutoff date, but i think it would help people to at least read the intelligent discussions that have valid support. I don't take it personal... I just think people will really miss out on hearing what you have to say if you go private. how else will the public hear the truth? Fox News?

Completely agree

I hate to be the one to cry censorship here, but I smell bullshit. all of you should be concerned about what kind of precedent that sets as far as future moderation goes.

This forum is no less safe from politics that anything else we try to discuss.

Exactly. The idea that just anyone can come in here and post things and we're supposed to judge the post on it's own merit without knowing if the person is a shill or not is just insane. Too bad they couldn't put a little star or something next to the shills' names.

I think one of the points of Reddit is that the information shared is valued on whether it is good, not on who is saying it.

And yet this thread is at 432 with 76% approval. And I've seen about 4 other threads trying to call out a "shill conspiracy" fare at least as well.

[deleted]

That's what all the rookies say.

And yet there's this post on top of them all, followed by this one.

And yet there's you, redditor for 4 days.

Oh good, you know the argument is successfully debunked when we move on to ad hominem comments. Yeah, I created a new account because I was being stalked by another redditor.

I have no problem with ad hominem comments; these people are morons.

This is the only sub where the top threads of the day are under 200 upvotes with only 20% approval.

The only one that you know of. However I think other subreddits that get invaded like that probably go private, recruiting members through PMs in other subreddits. The conspiracy subreddit can't really go private, it just seems wrong.

Agreed. Going private would be a mistake. It's great to have new users who are here for legitimate discussion. Those who come only to disrupt our discussions...well they can get out

If we make a secret one, dont forget me. I use this to stay informed.

lol

This is the single most active, multi-spectrum forum slide initative I've ever witnessed.

COINTELPRO: It means they're scared of you.

it's immediate too! they've gotta get paid $1 a downvote.... if they're doing it for free.... they've got too much free time! i predict it'll be better on sunday! hooray!

I have a new account, but that's because I have multiple accounts . However in the last 2 weeks, there has been a lot of shills Here.

Why is this not at the top? PLEASE UPVOTE THIS.

[deleted]

I don't. This place is going to shit and everyone knows it. I've never seen so many god damn image posts my entire time here.

[deleted]

link on the bigfoot stuff?

http://incogman.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/JEW-BIGFOOTAND-ALIEN.jpg

Bigfoot-ception

no the bombers were from planet serpo

dude, they are way too tall to be from Serpo, everyone knows Serpo is all small people.

yawn

I'm not entirely sure, but I have seen other subs that either have an up-vote or no vote system.. not allowing for down-votes.. we could move to that system which is inherently better. And if a shill posts something that is obviously in attempt to derail the focus, a mod could ban them.. Is there a way to bar new accounts from commenting/submitting until they meet a minimum requirement of 60days with a minimum of 300 comment karma?? Can mods do IP Address bans or is it account only??

That would suck for me. I'm pretty new to reddit, but I'm definitely not a shill. I'm a legitimate guy who wants to learn more about this kind of stuff.

And how are we to know if you're legit or paid to derail posts?

Paid to derail votes? I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I don't know. I'm just saying... That's waaaay out there as far as paranoia goes. Even for r/conspiracy thats way out there.

It's actually not out of the realm of anything.. There's been a lot of that going on in reddit lately. This post is from 4 months ago, now it's public knowledge that certain reddits ban content from certain websites, it's public knowledge now that Israel pays for Israel-positive only content, it's public knowledge that the US Military has people come into subs to downvote topics they deem unpopular and submit US-positive only content..

So meta. What if OP is just distracting us from the real conspiracy?

The real conspiracy that r/conspiracy has been infiltrated by higher level intelligence officers spreading both real and fake info to cause mass confusion.

[deleted]

Incredulity is actually a sure sign of lower intelligence. It is the inability to consider possibilities outside of ones life experience.

Not all theories are equal.

Just as in the justice system the weight of an argument should be based on the evidence, not how unlikely it is perceived to be. As Sherlock Holmes said:

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

Or just people

This is a more logical answer.

It had to happen eventually.

It is a commonly discussed one. Definitely not new or unusual.

We're getting a lot of /r/politics and /r/atheism and /r/skeptic spillover it looks like, most of the people on those subs are complete dicks and act in a similar fashion to how the new troll accounts are acting. It's just people with nothing to do so they come here to stir up shit because they believe their schooling and have been trained to "bully" the outsiders.

[deleted]

Exactly. That's why I've joined in the conversation. People have questions and came looking for answers. Not all of them believe that this was a false flag or that they were double agents.

The "purity" of the sub may have been disrupted but surely if someone's theory is going to be true then it can stand up to some questioning. An unquestioned theory isn't worth much.

Skeptics are a good thing. Keeps it real and your feet on the ground. Not having been to that sub, it sounds like they are debunkers, not skeptics.

Nice to see someone who understands there is a difference.

[deleted]

Not really. Just a lot of the time people assume that shouting down everything to do with conspiracy is the same as being sceptical.

Oh, and look up the word 'irony', then look at your last post.

they tow the "official story" BS to an extreme. They're not skeptics, more like asshats.

[deleted]

maybe all these kids will leave now that everything has been 'solved'

I think they'll be around for a while. /r/conspiracy is on the radar now and there are a lot of pissed off shills that will never give up. Just like the war on drugs, the war on terror, there is a war on information and questioning the official narrative of things.

Either that, or we come here actually asking questions and using a skeptical attitude not only towards the official reports, but also towards the conspiracy theories. I don't get why people here are so sensitive about being questioned. I thought you advocated questioning everything, not taking things for granted. Well, what I get for questioning conspiracy theories in here is a lot of "shill" and "troll" thrown after me.

Granted, the majority consensus now seems to be that it wasn't a conspiracy, so I have been getting a fair share of upvotes and agreement for a change, but still: the real nuts keep calling me a "shill", or asking me about my education and whether I feel loved, or invoke 9/11 on direct questions about Boston, or whatever else they feel like.

That's not me or anyone else being a bully, that's r/conspiracy subscribers being ignorant and stupid.

If someone questions you, welcome it. That's what this sub is about, isn't it? Skepticism and not taking things for granted.

Well it's not skepticism in that sense usually, its usually a snide remark. Something insulting. That is what is being seen more and more, it's not the questioning that anyone cares about, its the asshole comments that don't add anything to any discussion.

For someone accusing others of having no lives, you sure do care a lot about this subreddit.

...you have PICTURES of these fuckers in boston and people are STILL acting like every goddamn picture is a photoshop.

Being skeptical isn't the same as being an irrational contrarian.

We have pictures, but how good of evidence are these pictures? I genuinely don't see them directly placing their backpacks at the scene of the explosion, and whether they have their backpacks in the aftermath is debatable, considering the fact that the pictures that were released to the public aren't even good quality nor do they show what is being claimed. If a video is released or pictures of them actually placing a backpack, being the one that exploded, then I'll be on board with what the investigators are saying. Until then we're all entitled to have our doubts, just like the rest of you are entitled to believe that they were the culprits as reported.

What I don't understand or ever found necessary was the immediate witch-hunt against these men when they were still just suspects, and the celebrations that instantly followed. I understand that people desperately wanted to find the perpetrates and seek justice, but based on what? Pictures of them at the crime scene where there were thousands of other attendees? Why are people so impatient for answers that they would be so quick to hunt down suspects just because it's what they're told? Especially when it was claimed to be a Saudi male at first, so where's the credibility? The bombings were vile and the perpetrators should pay the time for the crime, but the reaction of the public was disgusting too. Celebrating without presentation of actual proof and calling for a hanging or other torture to a 19 year old, writing "USA" in chalk on the bloodstained pavement where Tamerlan was killed is disgusting as well. I don't agree with eye for an eye, I do agree the perpetrators should be punished.

I also don't understand why this is labeled as a terrorist attack? Even if the brothers are guilty, motives for the bombings aren't clear yet. The label of terrorism is being justified by the fact that they're Muslim and immigrants, which is discrimination.

Conspiracies get labelled as ludicrous, but many of you are also grasping at straws when you tell us "you have pictures". Yes, we have pictures, but the pictures we have don't show anything other than them being present at the marathon and carrying their backpacks, like hundreds of other people. A lot were grasping at straws last night when they said the pictures provided on the blog allowed them to conclude that the brothers were definitely guilty. The pictures on the blog were dark and grainy, and many of you couldn't decipher skin from weapon or what weapons were being used. What was on the ground wasn't visible either, could have been any object. To make things clear, I never was on the train for the audio provided last night, where people claimed they could hear the brothers claiming innocence. I could hear shouting, but it was inaudible.

Also, why is the story told by the young woman who called the radio station discredited and identified as unreliable because "witnesses are usually wrong and she was too tired and probably traumatized"; yet Jeff Bauman's testimony is credited, despite the fact that the poor guy just came out of surgery (with lots of sedation) after having his legs blown off (even more trauma than someone witnessing a manhunt and shooting)?

I think both sides are quick to jump the gun, when we're still at the early stages of the investigation. Although the investigators claim they have proof, it is merely a claim at this point. I understand people like to theorize and debate, but name calling and telling others that everything is clear, when it's really the opposite is pointless.

Any pictures of them doing something illegal? Not some grainy iphone shit - where you can't ID the people. Photos that would stand up in court? Got a link? Would love to see them.

Those photos would absolutely stand up in court. I don't know why you think otherwise.

I guess I'm someone who likes hard evidence that it was the bombers. I want to actually see their faces, rather than just a blurry picture of 2 guys. I'm not saying it wasnt them at all, I'm just saying a clearer picture would give me a better answer. What I'm hoping for, is that the police release the dashcam videos of what happened, rather than some blurry photos.

Yeah it's kind of sad. In support of a conspiracy theory all of the debunkers expect us to have concrete evidence, but in support of the official story the evidence can be shit blurry photos and it's somehow passable? Fuck me. I think they'll take any old debunking they can get, as long as every topic is covered, even if their debunking is quite shit and comes from obviously biased sources. That was a clusterfuck of a sentence but my point is people want comfort so badly that they will blindly defend it with hateful words and blurry photos, but if we were to use such shitty examples we would be ostracized immediately. Sorry this is 2 months late just ran a search on the influx of shills as compared to a year or 2 ago.

Once they are properly cough ...propped up, yes. They would indeed stand up in court.

I don't know why you think otherwise

Maybe because you can't see their faces to make a positive ID.

Facial features, height, weight, hair, identifying clothing can definitely be seen to give a decently accurate ID that a judge would allow in court.

You cannot make out facial features or hair color from the shooting pictures. It is dark. You can't make out their clothing. This would be laughed out of court.

This would be laughed out of court.

If it's all they presented? Sure. But they most likely have police dashcam as well. Not to mention testimony from the owner of the Mercedes that they carjacked, etc.

If you look at this specific photo and think it proves nothing, then you're not even attempting to look at the whole picture.

If it's all they presented? Sure

This is my point. This is all that has been presented here and yet people are saying it is conclusive proof. Negro_Napoleon was specifically taking about 'PICTURES'. He said: "you have PICTURES of these fuckers". The photos prove nothing.

But they most likely have police dashcam as well. Not to mention testimony from the owner of the Mercedes that they carjacked, etc.

Yes, indeed that would be good evidence. Would like to see it. I am not disputing this but none of us have seen this yet.

If you look at this specific photo and think it proves nothing, then you're not even attempting to look at the whole picture

Yes, as you have said yourself it proves nothing. There is no 'whole picture' to look at it there is no other evidence available...yet. This is my point.

There's more evidence (mostly provided by private citizens, as well) to suggest they most likely commited these attacks then there is for any other current theory. If you haven't seen all the evidence, then I'm afraid you're looking at this event with blinders on.

Negro_Napoleon was specifically taking about 'PICTURES'. He said: "you have PICTURES of these fuckers".

There's more evidence (mostly provided by private citizens, as well) to suggest they most likely commited these attacks then there is for any other current theory.

That sounds like opinion to me. Whether the suspect is guilty or not is for a court to decide not armchair judges on reddit.

If you haven't seen all the evidence, then I'm afraid you're looking at this event with blinders on.

You haven't seen all the evidence either. Unless you're a fed or someone else involved in the investigation - you would not be privy to such information.

No, I haven't. But I ask you. Why would it?

Why would the police or authorities release the videos of the bombs going off - or even stills of it?

Why should they give a whit about playing this in the public area if it's going to risk polluting a potential jury pool?

Now, come a trial, or if the guy magically dies in custody or anything else that happens that results in no one ever seeing the evidence, then OK, something is fishy.

But these people demanding that the government release everything right now, and failing that, then it's a government conspiracy, makes no sense to me.

Let the court system play out. You SHOULD see the evidence in time. But we have no right to any of it right now. Anything that gets out in the press (like the pictures of the corpse or other bother being operated on) are actually against the law

No, I haven't. But I ask you. Why would it?

That isn't a question. Negro_Napoleon said: 'you have PICTURES of these fucker'. I am asking for them not some grainy snap.

Why would the police or authorities release the videos of the bombs going off - or even stills of it?

Why are you asking me this? I never claimed they would or asked for them. The pictures we have seen are from citizens and don't show much.

But these people demanding that the government release everything right now

You are including me in that. I am making no such demands. What I am saying is that you cannot say suspects are guilty based on that shitty image. Do you understand this?

Let the court system play out.

Read my posts. I've said this repeatedly.

my apologies. I was interpreting something of you that you have apparently not said.

WHAT THE FUCK MAN.

The FBI says they have video. They have to use it in court.

They've got photos of them shooting AT COPS at night and now you're unhappy because its not NatGeo quality.

You've GOT to be kidding me.

The FBI says they have video

Yet you are the one screaming 'you have PICTURES of these fuckers'. Lets see the video of them doing something illegal before making a judgement. Why does that upset you so much? I don't think it is much to ask. I've only seen pictures of them at the marathon.

They've got photos of them shooting AT COPS at night

Where? You can't see their faces in any of the photos I have seen.

Lets see the video of them doing something illegal before making a judgement.

This isn't going to happen before a trial and I have no idea why anyone would assume it would.

Of course, when the video does come out there will be accusations from conspiracists that its fraudulent anyways...

This isn't going to happen before a trial and I have no idea why anyone would assume it would.

Who said it would? I certainly didn't.

Lets see the video of them doing something illegal before making a judgement. Why does that upset you so much? I don't think it is much to ask.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post but your tone seems to suggest you're somewhat incredulous at the fact the video hasn't been released to the public.

Since it won't be released before the trial, being incredulous about that fact would be irrational.

As I said, I could be misreading you.

I think it is pretty clear if you read the context of my posts. My posts were in response to the 'we have fucking pictures' statement. I never said anything about a need to release video to the public - I presume that would be kept for court - if the remaining suspect ever has a day in a civilian court. My point is we have not seen any pictures of these suspects doing anything illegal. Only clear shots were of them at the marathon. Therefore the 'we have fucking pictures' is bullshit.

they are with the CIA, see? I still smell conspiracy, are you mad because people don't think like you?

[deleted]

I think any time someone's version of the truth is informed by the truth they want to see, it's trouble. That goes for anti-government conspiracy theorists and staunch statists alike.

As an outsider who reads this subreddit only when I'm reminded of its existence, what I see right now is a clash between two subcultures who are very used to thinking and speaking in absolutes. All governments are corrupt. All accusations of conspiracy are baseless.

The result is a total lack of good, honest discussion and, honestly, a colossal waste of everyone's time. You'll never convince a person of anything with petty insults and/or wild accusations.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I do accept that conspiracies actually exist. The difference being that real conspiracies are documented and well evidenced, not merely arguments based on gaps or "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" mentalities.

I don't think most of the people you describe as believing that "all accusations of conspiracy are baseless" really do believe that. I think most of them believe like I do, that governments are not infallible or incorruptible, but that there's a big difference between actual, real-world conspiracies and the fantastical-almost-magical conspiracies often described in this subreddit.

Wikileaks are doing a good job exposing actual conspiracies and coverups, by providing solid evidence and documentation of those things that would hold up in anyone's eyes. This subreddit, however, with the overdone MSPaint edited photos and wild accusations of anyone not conforming to its ideas of the government as a massive cabal of psychologists and actors being a "shill", is rarely credible.

Hell, I had to step in and comment on a post that screamed "Police are breaking into people's homes!" that, in reality, turned out to be nothing but a single photo of police officers inside a house (no context provided, they might as well have been invited in) and a claim that "4Chan said so" to back it up with. That's what gets submitted and upvoted here, more often than not. I don't have to believe that the government is flawless to point out that that's bullshit.

You are wasting your breath on a new account. We had a great community until the bombing brought an army of shills.

explain how this "shill" thing works? Are you envisioning that the government and/or major companies have people employed where their full time job is to go on reddit and other sites and try to debunk/deride people questioning the official story?

How many shills do you think there are?

How do these entities recruit shills?

How much do you think "shilling" gets paid? I can't imagine it's a very high paying job.

Assuming, it's not a high paying job, don't you think that these shills would have every incentive to gather up all their evidence of this, and sell it to a publication for a nice windfall?

How do the prevent anyone from ever speaking out about shilling and telling that they are doing or have done it?

Here get you job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Activities_Division

This division is so clandestine and rife with conspirators that it's got a wikipedia page.

Got it.

[deleted]

Must be the government doing something wrong?

Nice off topic discussion slide. FUCKING NEW ACCOUNT!!.

Your post is not only an actual ad hominem attack, it's also an example of what's becoming known as 'self-sealing'.

• Any dissenting opinion is immediately dismissed off-hand by unjustly insinuating a nefarious intent.

• Any contrary evidence is immediately dismissed off-hand as "disinfo" and nonsensically spun as being evidence for the conspiracy theory.

How does one ever hope to find 'truth' by doing this? How can one have a 'discussion' without allowing dissention (a vital part of discussion)?

[deleted]

You know you just created an account and you know you created the account just to post on r/conspiracy. Why?

This is a topic on being over run by shills! STAY ON TOPIC NEW ACCOUNT!

[deleted]

I post here with my main account because I speak how I feel.

I post with my main, I just happen to make a new main fairly often, don't want them tracking me

lol, why does it make you "intelligent" to not use your main account? Because you want to maintain a fake image of your beliefs, so your "real self" and "conspiracy self" aren't connected?

So it's hard to track you. Got to cover your tracks. Simple craft.

Any account you make and are active on can be traced by your IP address. There isn't any way to hide your activity unless you're dedicated to doing so; like people talk about 'the basement of the internet' kind of search engines. I have no clue how to use those because I don't, but I know they exist.

But seriously, if the government or any higher power wanted your information, whether it be your main account or a second one, they could get it.

I was half joking :)

You raise legit points though. True internet anonymity is cumbersome.

I would still like more information about the Electric Jew.

Naturally there's been more interest in the subreddit since Boston attacks.

r/conspiracy has mostly been a pretty isolated circlejerk of similarly thinking people who consequently don't know how to argument cohesively. It's been intellectual tennis without nets. Everything goes, as long as it's they who are behind everything. When this comes in contact with general population, downvotes occur.

This goes with what I was saying here and on /noshill about skeptics being not just a good idea but vital to maintaining the integrity of research. The Skully to Muldur, Veinkman to Stantz (Ghostbusters). Nothing kills attention like a circlejerk.

How is /r/noshill any different from /r/conspiracy? I would hope less memes, less sarcastic comments, and more reasonable discussion. Is that the case, or do we see the same problems from here?

I think there is a bit tighter troll control due to the population to active mod ratio.

Can I get an invite to /r/noshill please?

You're exactly to whom OP is referring.

how to argument cohesively.

gotcha.

This is as good a place as anywhere in the thread to input my 2 cents...

I've been a subscriber to this subreddit for probably just as long as I've been a member of reddit, and also with a previous 1yr+ account.. My main event of interest (since middle school) is the JFK assassination, although there are several others. I've been fascinated with the Boston Marathon Attack ever since the moment it happened - much like I also was with the Aurora Case, and several other recent events.

The difference this time is "our" main place to discuss the event was r/findbostonbombers. Ever since that was unceremoniously shut down, there wasn't really an alternative. Believe me, I searched. The primary subreddit containing most of the discussion about the Boston Marathon Bombing - is r/conspiracy.

In the Aurora case, we had -and still have- r/auroracase. Someone should do some statistics to see if perhaps the gigantic influx of new subscribers just happened to be immediately following when r/findbostonbombers was shut down. I can't speak for everyone's intentions, but (TL;DR) maybe there's a chance that the reason for the influx is because there is no real subreddit for the Boston Attack.

No, that's not true. There's just a completely different mindset, and many things that mainstream thought takes for granted "Conspiracy theorists" do not.

For example, if the government has a law that lets them do drone strikes, a regular person would say "See? It's legal, what's your problem?" Whereas a conspiracy person would say "Holy shit it's legal for how long have they been planning this?"

Many of the posts in the past few days have been things like "The police have the right to go door-to-door to keep us safe." Or, "The police need APCs because the suspects had bombs."

But in conspiracy world, this information takes on a much bigger meaning, because we've been paranoid about government going door to door with APCs for decades. New people don't get this, and instead of trying to lurk and figure it out, they but in with their opinions of what's justifiable and what's not.

It's like any other sub. Lurk, then post. Don't come in like you own the place because you're going to fuck shit up and ruin the discussion.

For example, if the government has a law that lets them do drone strikes, a regular person would say "See? It's legal, what's your problem?" Whereas a conspiracy person would say "Holy shit it's legal for how long have they been planning this?"

Are you serious? The problem of drones is quite well documented. Main stream media has written a lot about both legal and moral aspects of the drone warfare. There are also excellent non-conspiratorial anti-drone studies like [http://www.livingunderdrones.org/] .

Don't come in like you own the place because you're going to fuck shit up and ruin the discussion

I will come in, and I will debate. Not because I was a government shill, but because I just detest intellectual dishonestly. I also debate Christians at another subreddit. But that kinda lacks the great feeling of finally getting somewhere, like what happened here in the thread that featured pics of the Boston bombers in a firefight with the police.

It was like kicking in the door to a vampire den, and watch the shadow lurking conspiratards burn with the cold light of reason. Like cornering Gollum and taking his ring.

I hate this attitude that everyone that disagrees with the premises you accept is being intellectually dishonest. Not everyone has to think like you. That's just life. There's an entire world of people and everyone has the right to operate their own brain.

You're convinced you're right because you've bought into a trend of pretending that ones own preferences are made sacrosanct through some kind of hyper-rationality, which, simply because it is seen as rational from the inside, is the ONLY TRUE WAY to think. It's tiresome. You never listen to reason because you're convinced that everything you think is completely reasoned out.

The fact is there are certain things you CAN'T know a priori, and it forms a huge basis of human experience (and therefore philosophy and metaphysics). You can't intrude on that shit and claim that you rationally understand it. You don't. You're culturally and historically located like everyone else. You're no better because you've denounced organized religion for some sort of religious belief in the power of your own mind and observations.

Typically you'll be skipping to the end of this without engaging, to score points, because like everyone else, you're not as smart as you pretend to be and only engage in these discussions out of a base insecurity. So I'll give you something to argue against. God exists. The government did 9/11. Hitchens was a douche. Dawkins is a douche. People that believe that mainstream media could write anything "moral" are stunted and starved for inspiration, and Jesus Christ had some damned good ideas that you cunts never talk about because you can't argue with "blessed are the meek" and choose instead to argue about Noah's ark because it is a children's story. Why don't you also tell me how the Big Bad Wolf is factually inaccurate? Shine your cold light of rationality up your ass and see if you can find your head.

You never listen to reason because you're convinced that everything you think is completely reasoned out.

Far from it. The main difference between rational thought versus conspiracy theories or religions is that in the former it is okay to say "I don't know". In r/conspiracy and religion there's always an answer for everything. That already should give you a clue there's something wrong with the thought structure.

You're no better because you've denounced organized religion for some sort of religious belief in the power of your own mind and observations.

Yes I am. Rational thought and observations are the basis of the scientific method, which has a proven track record. Whatever device you're using to publish your brainfarts is a testament to that.

God exists.

There's no proof of that. You could similarly claim that unicorns exist. Besides, which god do you mean?

Hitchens was a douche. Dawkins is a douche.

They certainly do act that way.

The government did 9/11.

With real or hologram planes?

People that believe that mainstream media could write anything "moral" are stunted and starved for inspiration, and Jesus Christ had some damned good ideas that you cunts never talk about because you can't argue with "blessed are the meek" and choose instead to argue about Noah's ark because it is a children's story.

I'd say that the recent NYT co-editorial written by a gitmo detainee contained a moral message. So did the stuff covering the presidents drone program and the immense harm they're doing in Pakistans tribal area.

No doubt Jesus also had some good ideas. But there's a limit on how much we should try to apply 2000 year old wisdoms to modern world. Slavery was okay in the bible, for example. An easy moral question that the bible got 100% wrong. The bible was humanity first tries on morality, why stick to it? We've come a long way since.

Why don't you also tell me how the Big Bad Wolf is factually inaccurate?

Let me guess, blame it on the jews or what? Am I right?

Here man, watch this and see what you think. It's a TED talk. You might not agree but give it a listen and see what you make of it.

link

It's TEDx. The X stands for: no filter for loons with unsupported, crazy theories. This talk has been highly controversial and with good reason. It has detracted from the otherwise decent reputation that the TED name has. Sorry, but your comment is an argument against yourself.

Did you watch it?

Yes, for the second time now. His "10 dogmas" are merely the tentative conclusions by following the evidence. His entire talk is used to prop up his own little, unsupported theory. It's like he flipped to the last page in a scientific methodology book and said "tl;dr".

The real question is this: Have you watched it? What do you think about his claims about "dogma"? Because what I saw was a bit fat strawman argument and frighteningly little else.

He's saying the scientific crowd (as if they agreed on everything) holds some unquestionable dogmas, but then lists issues where there are significant scientific disagreement, for example whether laws of physics change over time, or what was the nature of the big bang.

Especially his view of big bang is simplistic, looking it as an event in time, even though it's quite related to time itself.

Additionally medical case studies from the past 100+ years have well documented the link between brain damage, memory and thought. But he's advocating to the contrary that mind is independent of (brain)matter.

So I don't know what to say .. scientific world is much more discordant that uninitiated would have you believe. No idea is held .. wait for it .. sacred.

Complete brainfart later in his talk: using theory - evidence model to prop up his crazy theories .. um .. that is science. Wasn't that what he was saying doesn't work?

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So you're telling me I should listen to Alex Jones?

He's telling you to assume you're being lied to, and to then wonder about how exactly you a being lied to, for what purpose, and at whose direction.

No, he's an idiot.

and what happens when someone uses raw footage and uses that to disprove a theory? they're called a shill. It's not just about believing the media, it's about believing your own lying eyes.

But in conspiracy world, this information takes on a much bigger meaning, because we've been paranoid about government going door to door with APCs for decades.

You are aware that this is a textbook example of confirmation bias, right?

They did go door to door to keep people safe. It was believed he was hiding somewhere in that area, and from the photos of streets I've seen, there are plenty of back doors or cellars or attics where he could have broken in an hid. What's wrong with police knocking on doors asking if they can search your house?

Yeah, some claimed they didn't ask, but as far as I can tell, that's bullshit. First-hand testimonies that they did ask vs. cellphone videos from a house across the street without audible dialogue.

As for the APCs, who cares? It's transportation, and why not use them? The guys did have bombs? Why not rather be safe than sorry? They're trained to protect themselves first, and they do it by wearing armor. They can't know exactly the level of protection that is precisely necessary, so they exaggerate deliberately. This is not a hard concept to understand.

Firemen wear protection even if it's just a small fire. They're not prescient, they can't know when they will or won't need more protection if something happens outside their control.

It's like any other sub. Lurk, then post. Don't come in like you own the place because you're going to fuck shit up and ruin the discussion.

There isn't a lot of discussion without people like me, more like head-nodding and circle-jerking. You're skeptical of the government? Well, I'm skeptical of you. I'll keep you on your toes. If you have a theory you think is valid, I'm going to question and attempt to debunk it. If I am able to do that, it's not because I'm so gosh-darn rude, it's because your theories are weak.

Protect your theories because the evidence supports them. Don't protect your theories just because you feel like believing them, and you think anyone questioning them is just disrespectful.

I asked a guy who was in the Armed forces this question yesterday and he gave me a run down of how it could have been handled differently. According to him he raided numerous homes in Iraq. Might be bullshit, but his answer seems logical. That discussion is here.

His main point is this: Huge amounts of resources were put into a tactic that did not yield good results. The guy was found AFTER the curfew was lifted. Had there never been a curfew, it could have been sorted more easily, and it wouldn't have cost the city 250 million USD.

In terms of the risk reward ratio on using APCs and door-to-door checks, most people only consider the risk to police of NOT doing it. What about the risk to our civil liberties of throwing out procedures for search and seizure? Do you mean to tell me that you're comfortable with the precedent that whenever a criminal is on the run the police can come search your house wearing military gear?

The thing is, you're not being hyper-rational in your critique of what I'm saying. You're just comfortable with more intrusion into your life than I am. So your argument boils down to "What's the big deal? Police should have that authority."

However I've lived in a real police state. It isn't fun. I lived in Egypt under Mubarak and during the revolution and saw the full brunt of a police state in action. People snatched from homes. Homes of journalists raided and ruined. Mass arrests and police violence in the name of public safety. Torture of innocents in the name of national security.

You can easily write that experience off by saying "Well, it would never happen here." But in my experience having lived in both places is that honestly they aren't terribly far off, especially in terms of the rhetoric used to justify such actions. The difference is that Egyptians are fully aware that their government is corrupt whereas most Americans trust that their government will do right by them. But trusting government is very very dangerous and that is why the Constitution of the US is a paranoid, hyper sensitive document hellbent on hamstringing the government's power. That's smart. And the reason they did it was because they knew exactly what tyranny was like.

I don't think it is confirmation bias or intellectual laziness or any of these other terms thrown around to try to make me seem like a simpleton. I think the major difference between myself and you is that I have actually witnessed a police state in action and know how thin the line is and I know what lays on the other side.

By the way, the only thing standing between you and what goes on in Egypt is that the US has a damn fine constitution, which is a revolutionary document that lays out the limits of government. That was the whole point of the document. Having lived through a revolution I do feel that I understand where the founders were coming from and what they were trying to prevent. And no, one 19 year old with a kitchen bomb is not a good reason to give up your 4th amendment rights. The idea is that you keep your rights until you are no longer living. The point of a revolution is not "We'd like to be free until we get afraid, or until our government tells us there is a reason to be afraid." No. That's not a country I want to live in.

Do you mean to tell me that you're comfortable with the precedent that whenever a criminal is on the run the police can come search your house wearing military gear?

Again with this. Do you mean to tell me that he was "just another criminal"? Do you seriously equate him with someone who stole a car, or shot someone in a robbery gone bad?

This was a terrorist that had just blown people up at a major sports event, killed a police officer, stolen a car, thrown more bombs out of the car, shot at police officers, ran away and proceeded to hide in a residential area. Of course the police response would be quite a bit larger than just any suspect of any crime.

Was it too much? Maybe. I'm not saying it wasn't. But this is a discussion best held after the fact, not before it. What if they'd only had a couple hundred police, no SWAT, and he got away? Would people not have been screaming that the police didn't do their job?

The thing is, you're not being hyper-rational in your critique of what I'm saying. You're just comfortable with more intrusion into your life than I am.

I would argue that conspiracy theorists like the people here are comfortable with less intrusion into their lives than most people. See, most people don't consider the police to be a threat or equivalent to a foreign power trying to invade their homes. Most people were, I think, quite glad to see a strong show of force that pretty much guaranteed they would not be victims of this terrorist's mad escape.

But yes, if we're just talking you and me, you're absolutely right that I tolerate a larger intrusion than you do. I would have let the police in without argument, not "because I have nothing to hide", but because I believe police officers are also my neighbors or friends or colleagues, ordinary people doing their job, trying to find a dangerous suspect that might very well have snuck into my basement to hide.

However I've lived in a real police state. It isn't fun. I lived in Egypt under Mubarak and during the revolution and saw the full brunt of a police state in action. People snatched from homes. Homes of journalists raided and ruined. Mass arrests and police violence in the name of public safety. Torture of innocents in the name of national security.

And how much of that happened last week in Boston? Except that there were police on the streets, were journalists imprisoned? Citizens arrested for no reason? People tortured?

I know the government has some really shitty policies on "foreign combatants" and "enhanced interrogation", and I'm not arguing against that, but I think it's highly questionable, borderline nefarious, to equate that with SWAT teams looking for a violent terrorist on the run.

You can easily write that experience off by saying "Well, it would never happen here."

No no, I very much think it might. I just think it hasn't, nor do I see any evidence it actually will. "Might happen" and "will happen" are, after all, quite different things.

The difference is that Egyptians are fully aware that their government is corrupt whereas most Americans trust that their government will do right by them.

I doubt this. I think they trust parts of government, and I also think they highly disapprove of other parts (like Congress). However, I don't see trusting the government to be substantially worse than mistrusting the entirety of it.

I think it's more a matter of shitty politics, and as a non-American, I see this very clearly. The very things you praise so highly are part of why your society is crumbling from the inside. Your "right to bear arms" only accelerate and exacerbate gun violence. Your incredible government system only accelerates and exacerbates corruption and apathy. Your incessant need to be militarily dominant only accelerates and exacerbates the decline of your public institutions, like schools and hospitals.

There are a lot of things wrong with the USA and its government, but I see no reason to believe it to be caused by shady conspiracies and weird plots involving the killing of citizens for no apparent end goal (was all this just to pass Cispa in Congress? To end up dead in the Senate? Or vetoed by the President? Really?).

By the way, the only thing standing between you and what goes on in Egypt is that the US has a damn fine constitution, which is a revolutionary document that lays out the limits of government.

The US constitution has nothing to do with the fact that Sweden is nowhere near being a police state. We have a higher standard of living, better (and cheaper) education and health care, and no shooting sprees or terrorists (well, we had one, but he was so incompetent the only person he managed to kill was himself...) due to tight gun control. There's no real unrest here, nor is the police given rights to do anything for the purpose of government control. The problems we do have are the same as yours, meaning corporate lobbyists influencing politicians. We're a capitalist nation, so that's partly to be expected.

Then again, we do have a problem with police and military harassing our citizens... specifically when your CIA comes here and kidnaps people. But I don't blame that on any conspiracy, just delusions of grandeur on behalf of your government.

No. That's not a country I want to live in.

A society where people argue their rights in the face of their neighbor's risk of being hurt by a dangerous terrorist is not a society I'd prefer. That's just me, I guess.

I'm a shill. AMA.

what is a shill? How do I become shill?

I've come to the conclusion that if you don't know what a shill is, then you're a shill. I'm a shill.

[deleted]

Says someone with a racist name, who has been a redditor for 1 hour and only posting pro FBI messages in r/conspiracy....

Doesn't mean he's wrong.

shill |SHil | noun an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others. verb act or work as such a person.

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Well, this is a conspiracy forum, if everyone were to agree with the official story it would just be /r/news.

It's clear that there is much more going on to any such event than the official story lets on, whether because of nation security, due process or malicious intent. As long as the there are questions unanswered there is room for speculation.

I'm not a "troll", nor am I a "shill" and I am not a conspiracy theorist. I come here because I'm curious about what people are saying on some things. Usually I just lurk but the Boston Bombing happened in my city so there has been areas I can chime in with useful information. I have begun participating more in the conversation and tend to have contrarian views to this subreddit. I am not trying to troll but simply take place in the dialogue. Without people like me playing devil's advocate or challenging your theories, this sub is nothing more than a circlejerk.

Really, is it "official"?

Do you have any empirical evidence - say comparing all the comments on all the posts in /r/conspiracy the two weeks before the bombings and all the posts after?

Anything to provide actual, tangible evidence? That's always the laugh against what people call "conspiracy nuts". Just baseless accusation and paranoia.

I'd be happy (as an account holder is is more than one month old) to review any supporting (non anecdotal) evidence.

I think this is another example of someone expressing through hyperbole something they feel strongly about on an emotional level, but aren't necessarily capable of expressing in a clear and logical argument at the time of posting. That, however, doesn't mean that the premise is false necessarily.

But you have to realize that what marginalizes the conspiracy theorists (for lack of a better term - feel free to provide one) is that baseless accusation is given so much leeway and benefit of the doubt that it's like a "boy who cried wolf" when provable instances occur.

yeah I came in for links to evidence and OP's text block was just a word for word re-quote of the title..sigh.

Really this should be the question at the top.

Provide your evidence!

I'm holding my breath.

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I dont get it?

[deleted]

As opposed to what, not making their own minds up about what they read?

6 year account here. I agree with you Merriwanna.

seems like you're full of shit as well

Technically you are correct, I have not pooped yet this morning.

so then leave?

if i find something i don't like, i don't stick around

edit: honestly, someone explain it to me - if the stupidity blows your mind and irritates you to such a degree, then why stick around and ruin for those who have fun with it and find it occasionally interesting?

Every time somebody criticizes r/conspiracy they are called "shills" who simply make new accounts to troll this community. Merriwana is a four year old account, and is saying I don't need a sock puppet account to say you guys are full of shit.

it's great that you're able to generalize 133,000+ readers in one succinct comment

you still haven't explained why you stay if this subreddit is so toxic

It's toxic because it amplifies unreasonableness. Seriously. It's like a walled garden of bad ideas that the confused go to inform and confirm eachother's nonsense. Meanwhile it's riddled with people who have REAL mental disorders who are dangerous to themselves or others, who buy-in to everything and anything perpetuating their disorder.

That's why I think /r/conspiracy needs ouside criticism. Without it, bad ideas will continue to go unchecked and spread to dangerous people.

It's no different than visiting any other subreddit where their philosophies/enjoyments are different than yours. How is it any different than someone from /r/atheism trolling the religious subreddits? Or someone from /r/starwars trolling /r/startrek? Is it personally harmful that someone else may have different hobbies?

I visit this subreddit every day. I see a lot of stupid content. Do I leave a condescending, scathing remark about how foolish everyone in the thread is for entertaining a thought? No. I move on with my life, because I have better things to do.

I welcome criticism, on this subreddit especially. What has been happening recently is not criticism. It's just hateful, dismissive, and unnecessary comments that do nothing to actually add to the discussion. Not only are people leaving comments that serve no purpose other than scorn, but they are upvoting only eachother and downvoting anyone who doesn't hop on the "hahaha you guys are stupid" bandwagon, creating a hostile environment in a place that was once good for a fun read.

I don't typically call people shills - it's dumb, and just as dismissive as calling someone a "conspiracy theorist" in a derogatory way. However, I honestly must question the motivation of some of you all who camp a subreddit you claim to loathe and make huge, generalizing statements attempting to discredit the whole of the subreddit and its readers instead of calling out the individuals you see as toxic.

As I said /r/conspiracy has more than its fair share of loons. That's why more people think it's ridiculous and come to ridicule here more than most subreddits. Some people just want to argue with lunatics.

I think that says more about them than the lunatics.

Maybe, but everyone finds entertainment in different ways. If /r/conspiracy really feels threatened it should follow suit to /r/conservative and go semi-private. I feel like they had it waaaaaay worse than you guys.

[deleted]

No invitation required for a public subreddit, and there wouldn't be any outside criticism if you guys would do it yourselves.

[deleted]

No :) it's good for you

[deleted]

Each individual that visits it is free to decide for themselves.

[deleted]

I think I'll stick around, but thanks.

[deleted]

Why not?

[deleted]

Lol you just can't help yourself.

The Iran-contra affair is one of the many true conspiracies. Happy?

[deleted]

Erm, it was admitted to by Reagan. So yeah, you loose.

[deleted]

Anymore brain busters?

[deleted]

Hahaha what's wrong you don't like this example?

[deleted]

I can not understand you. In the words of the Virgin Mary "Come again?"

[deleted]

The level of your butthurt is outstanding. G'day

[deleted]

I don't want a fight. Bye sir.

He's a failed shill troll, ignore him. He'll go away with the rest of the sheep.

In what way is this official?

One of the mods did a a chem trail reading. It's literally written in the sky, but you sheeple don't want to believe the truth right before your eyes. The Revolution is happening!

[deleted]

[deleted]

There was, but the government is hiding it in Guantanamo.

Not me...I am here for open minded conversation and have been on reddit for over a year. But what I am watching is a conpira-ception in which there is currently a conspiracy about a conspiracy subreddit.

You have more people interested in this subreddit because of recent actions and information you guys are pushing out there saying the boston bombings were caused by the government so what would you expect? If reddit was this popular during 9/11, i'm sure that would've been the same outcome.

Don't get upset because people are here and not agreeing with your conspiracies (especially the boston bombings, considering there was a widely spread video/picture evidence showing the brothers shooting back at the cops), but instead produce your evidence to show otherwise and if it is strong enough, it will be able to convince them otherwise. Isn't that the point of a conspiracy? To have enough evidence to show that something we have been told previously is a lie? Otherwise you're just following the trend and believing whatever you are told.

It not about getting upset, it's about recognizing the manipulation as it happens so you can defend yourself against it.

I wouldn't say that it's manipulation if it's other people expressing their beliefs...if they blindly just followed anything anyone on here said, that would be manipulation on the part of the person spreading information and then not expecting someone to talk back.

I made a new account to post my thoughts on sensitive topics where my other account is linked to my personal info.

A couple days ago it seemed a bit like pro govt posts were getting upvoted more.

Now it seems like more unsubstantiated theories are getting the upvotes. Many of them are stretching too far or even pressing an agenda.

My suggestion would be to have a "theory" format

Theory

Evidence

Personal Conclusions

[deleted]

You never know these days.

I have another account that I post things like videos I create or links that are relevant to my personal interests (pics of my motorcycles, paintings, etc).

I don't need my views on r/conspiracy or in other debates for that matter being associated with those things. Some asshat on the internet could trip out over something I say and fuck with me. Maybe that is just paranoia, but I've seen people behind the veil of the internet "go after" people before. We've all seen it.

So I make new accounts a lot. This one included. And I ain't no fucking shill :)

[deleted]

I suppose in a way it is profilng. It raises an interesting point I hadn't really thought of before.

Why do I feel the need to hide these thoughts and disassociate with them?

In "real life", like many here, I hold a minority view from those around me. I often feel put out or misunderstood. These could cause me to use anonymous accounts at some psychological level.

Hm.. this is getting pretty deep! :)

[deleted]

Well said, thank you!

Or being doxed by trolls

Lurk more. Seriously, we don't need you to come in and offer your enlightened opinions. If we wanted to know how you thought, we could go to /politics or /worldnews or talk to anyone with a TV. It isn't hard. There's not some hard mental gymnastics you have to do to be a "skeptic." Basically you just need to believe what you're told.

Whereas, on the other hand, despite a fair amount of bullshit that gets peddled here, there actually is a rhyme and reason to how people think about events, and if you read and listened before jumping in with your boring ideas, you'd learn something.

Naturally though everyone believes conspiracy theorists are dumb or crazy and therefore most people also believe that they can educate conspiracy theorists on "rationality." It's tiresome.

There's not some hard mental gymnastics you have to do to be a "skeptic." Basically you just need to believe what you're told.

Um, being a "skeptic" does not mean "just believing what you are told."

This is gonna get down voted to hell, but.........

What is wrong with defeating your debater with knowledge? Obviously the ones that are true trolls shouldn't be fed, but /r/Conspiracy subscribers aren't the only ones with with a skeptic bend in them. It's good to have your theories challenged.

Again, I am not saying that anyone has to be insulted, but also, when someone questions your theory it isn't always an insult. And a lot of people here insult those with legitimate points by calling them a shill/cointelpro/paid disinfo agent. That has to stop. Refute the refuters and go on. No one likes a spoil-sport.

EDIT: See? Everything that is wrong with this sub quantified in almost 20 downvotes with no one saying why they downvoted it. Figures. Fuck this sub.

Anyone genuine knows how big the subject of this sub is, people coming here knowing nothing and expecting to be educated, from scratch, by us, are in the wrong place.

We could really use /r/conspiracy-kindergarten or some such....

Yeah man. it's tiresome to argue with someone whose argument is literally "Why would the government ever want to hurt its own people?"

I mean, that's sort of square one. If you don't get that, YOU'RE the dumb one. I'm not sayign you have to agree with it, but if you want to understand a train of thought, you at least have to be hip to the premise of the argument. You can't just continually question the premise with no reasoning given besides "I never thought of it that way so it must be wrong."

It's a conspiracy in /r/conspiracy du du DUUUUUUH!

This is exactly what this subreddit doesnt need. Take your shitty jokes back to /r/funny

Official eh?

I agree. but what do you suggest we do? move to a new sup? i dosen´t matter. i see this going down real fast now! most people are waking up! not just in r/Conspiracy.

:-/ I'd love to think so but I basically no evidence of it...

Why are you downvoted? Gahh

you know why!

[deleted]

Corporate shills!

I first came to this subreddit last week when all of this bombing stuff was going on. I've spent the last week pointing people towards facts and proof rather than some of the ridiculous, unsubstantiated things they've been saying. Does this mean the government owes me money?

collect your check at the discount window at the fed.

[deleted]

Yeah, don't post until you agree with 161719! And don't even think of offering your own evidence! /s

No but when you post in a discussion based on a certain premise, it doesn't move the discussion forward to constantly throw that premise into question. If you want that discussion, there are places for it. Here theres a basic understanding of how government operates that we all understand. Some agree with it, some don't. But the point is to think about life from that perspective in a "what if" kind of way.

It'd be like if you wanted to go into a forum about fly fishing, and you go in every day and say that fishing is evil, and no one should fish. Ok fine, but we're gathered here to talk about fishing. If you don't like fishing, you're free to read or not, but please don't bog our discussion down with talk about whether or not fishing is evil.

You make some good points, but the web of conspiracy is large enough that you've got folks like me that are interested in historical conspiracies and guys who think the elite are lizard people, and I can't not poke that hornet's nest.

Right but that's true of any group of people. In ANY group, 95% of people are idiots. But why engage with it? Take 95% of ANY category of people, and you'll find idiots. The key (if you are a rational thinking person) is to wade into weird streams of thought and try to figure out WHY these crazies think this way and get into their heads. It's mind expanding. Sooner or later, you think "ok, so from this perspective it doesn't seem crazy," and that's called "empathy" and it's a good thing, and it expands the toolbox you can use to engage with the world. There are no bad tools, just useful ones and not useful ones. But you don't find out which is which until you learn how to use it.

Poking a hornet's nest just gets you stung. Become a bee keeper. Get the honey.

I like your bad tools line, thank you.

This post will be a marker for the beginning of the end of free speech on your sub. I've been everything from a belligerent asshole to an agreeable discussion holder in here, and I've always gotten out what I put in. I get that it's scary that negative opinions aren't getting negative karma, but you guys have to understand how shitty this sub will be after the tide lowers if you take even one step down the road to censorship. Lets remember what the sub is about, and try to have some dignity in the face of being insulted should that happen.

I've been on reddit for 5 years. I subbed here a few months ago out of curiosity - mostly because my brother has been into the conspiracy world (chemtrails, HAARP, etc). The curiosity subdued, and I've stuck around for entertainment value.

You've all been totally off the wall since Sandy Hook. To be honest, one of my first thoughts hearing about the Boston bombings was "I wonder what /r/conspiracy thinks." While shit was still going down, you were already claiming conspiracies. It's like there's no critical thinking at all here. The only thought process seems to be "something bad happened, I bet the govt did it, let me evidence to, no matter how tenuously, implicate the govt in a conspiracy."

Does anyone really think the government gives a fuck about this subreddit enough to spend time and money planting users in here to downvote your posts? Sweet Jesus of Overblown Self-Importance.

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

Military's 'sock puppet' software creates fake online identities to spread pro-American propaganda

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

Yep, this is not my first account here. I delete my accounts often.

I have seen some wonderful information in the past, but it seems there is an organized, well funded effort to destroy this subreddit.

I hope it survives. Do any of you know of a good place to discuss now that this might be taken away?

Please PM.

Well funded? Reddit is free. Why would people need to be well-funded? Good lord you just have standard set of answers for everything don't you?

Reddit is a free service. Reddit makes money through advertising.

Reddit is a massive media influence, the US army has had a presence for half a decade and so have the large corporations. The well funded campaign I was talking about are the empire's equivalent of the JIDF.

Reptile people d00d.

I see a lot of r/technology questioning CISPA, which in turns questioning the government's intentions and motives. They have made the connection of the distraction of the bombing and the CISPA progress. Maybe the shills should head over there for a little bit and berate r/technology.

I usually ignore the shill stuff as it seems paranoid, but I've noticed this sub has been weird. I'm all for calling out the crazies, but rational thought out ideas are being attacked. I's not right.

You guys aren't open minded. You disagree with anyone who doesn't accept your ludicrous version of events. You throw logic and deduction out the window on a regular basis, and seek only those viewpoints that adhere to an already existing ideological conformity.

Accounts do not need to be less than 30 days old to be a shill acount.

www.freelancer.com/job-search/reddit-accounts-sale/

http://ultratonfist.com/sell-us-your-reddit-accounts/

How out of touch with reality are you folks? You actually believe that the government has sent it's drones here to create false accounts and downvote all your posts, because you are actually onto something? Just because you photoshop some lines onto a picture and add a paragraph about the way that everyone holds a backpack filled with a bomb with two straps instead of just one doesn't prove anything.

this guy is one of them

Every subReddit even briefly touching on this subject is crawling with shills. They must have an army of paid talkbackers. So, now I'm starting to wonder why and looking with new interest at what is being discussed.

Let's just be clear on this: calling someone a "shill" is an attack on one's character, a form of hate speech, which is used as a way to disrupt legitimate dialog and a way to exclude others from being able to participate in the discussion.

To be fair some of the theories you guys are posting are a bit ridiculous.. I honestly get upset with some of this BS that is thrown around in this sub-reddit. Some majorly out there theories with no evidence to back them, just speculation. Then there are users who think everybody is paid to disagree w/ them..

Some of you probably think I am a shill, right? Because I like a little evidence to go along with my theories?

You guys are just fucking silly; top comment says open minded. The moment opinions deviate from this subs collective they're downvoted to hell.

This forum is not being overrun with shills, but what is happening is everything you type is being logged into a government computer, because apparently tamerlan tsarnaev was a conspiracy nut.

This is done by people who are hired to do so. A good way to denounce conspiracy theories is to make arguments with the people, put them down as crazy or stupid, and take the topic off the actual idea. The, and im being serious now, government has been known to do this on multiple occasions. Many of these trolls are hired thugs.

[deleted]

1) Link

Link

This was posted 5 months ago. Move along BustyMilfs

Sounds like a conspiracy.

Someone made a post referring to r/conspiracy that hit the front page about a week ago. I think a lot of people were intrigued enough to check out the subreddit. Upon seeing the content, especially all of the rediculous stuff about the Boston Bombers, people were pretty shocked. Naturally, some felt the need to argue against the logic being used in r/conspiracy.

[deleted]

If I am a sheep to the MSM, you are a sheep to your own version of the media: this subreddit, and the articles that are posted in it.

I just find it ironic that you pride yourself on "questioning everything" and being inquisitive and not believing everything that you hear. But thats not what happens. Instead, you are extremely skeptical of anything reported by the news, but willing to fully support wacky conspiracy theories without really making sure that everything adds up.

I have no problem with people who like to wait for convincing evidence before believing something is true. There is definitely merit to that. But that is not what happens here. I have seen this subreddit launch its support behind ideas where there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever. They are supported merely because they are an alternative to what the MSM says.

Edit: Obviously I am generalizing your beliefs to those of this subreddit, since your response was on par with most stuff I see here. But, of course, I could be wrong, I have no idea what ideas you individually support

Instead, you are extremely skeptical of anything reported by the news, but willing to fully support wacky conspiracy theories without really making sure that everything adds up.

You don't know what adds up or not since you do not possess the information background required. What seems whacky to a sheep like you, will seem much less whacky to someone who has been researching these topics for years. As most of us here have been.

You have no clue "what happens here" and that's your problem.

Can I just say that although I'm subscribed to this subreddit, and my account is only a month or so old, I am not one of these bastards. I am a lurker, waiting in the shadows. Mainly because everyone seems to hate anything I have to contribute to any discussion on here. Love you guys.

nobody hates what you think my friend, there is just an immediate wave of downvotes after anything that is posted. Then the people that frequent this thread for sensible discussion will upvote you if you have something good to say. The first wave is just little kids getting their kicks from downvoting people they are scared of arguing with.

[deleted]

I am not a subreddit, I am a user.

You're probably the nicest person I've ever met on reddit, thankyou. It's not the downvotes I care about particularly, I'm not a karma whore yet, it's just like when you've just run a really hot bath, dab your toe in and get burnt like a motherfucker and then wait ages before you even think about putting your toe back in the bath.

caring about Karma is the biggest mistake you can make :)

The government sent me an email telling me not to argue on here, but to just downvote so this /r/ will get less exposure. Do you think this is a conspiracy?

A conspiracy about a conspiracy within /r/conspiracy. Conspiriception.

Just study it out.

My account got blackballed a long time ago just because I post primarily from my site. The posting from a single site thing. Had an article on tracking animals that was pretty cool and SPAM! Kinda stupid, but I have no doubt that this community is being monitored and filtered.

It's r/conspiracy, it wouldn't be if we thought otherwise.

[deleted]

I did, and did not hear back from them. :(

would you like to know more?

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1ciztz/rconspiracy_20130417t115134_englishmunichfan/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1cktmy/rconspiracy_20130418t013834_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1cezyw/rconspiracy_20130415t205616_englishmunichfan/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1buosf/rconspiracy_20130407t133708_englishmunichfan/

more

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1bz7zl/rconspiracy_20130409t074413_mrdong_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1bz9td/reddit_meme_murder_confession_leads_to_fbi/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1c5iib/rconspiracy_20130411t183346_mrdong_remove_nevek/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/12mirp/rconspiracy_20121104t193152_mrdong_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/12olzn/rconspiracy_20121105t193913_mrdong_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/u0rs8/rconspiracy_20120523t085524_mrdong_remove_syuk/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/16hjng/rconspiracy_20130113t102012_mrdong_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1cu5r5/rconspiracy_20130422t013205_9000sins_remove/

more

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/10ni0a/rconspiracy_20120929t024555_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/10nfxo/rconspiracy_20120929t020857_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/13hn8m/rconspiracy_20121120t030446_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/11kel8/rconspiracy_20121016t120952_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/11phoj/rconspiracy_20121018t201009_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/135ays/rconspiracy_20121113t221514_9000sins_remove_psne/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/11t5xx/rconspiracy_20121020t192349_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/11kkis/rconspiracy_20121016t141740_9000sins_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ynvx2/im_getting_sick_of_this_place_really_fast_goodbye/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1bk9sh/9000sins_hangs_out_in_rconspiratard_preemptively/

http://www.redditgraphs.com/?9000sins&ScatterPlot&Length&Comments

more

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/172175/til_that_during_reddits_early_days_the_founders/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/1br8us/rconspiracy_20130405t200230_weedtastic_remove/

http://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/179sbr/rconspiracy_20130125t191611_mrdong_remove_mrdong/

would you like to know more?

0 http://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalModeration/comments/12otmi/reddits_admins_at_the_request_of_mods_from/

1 http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1404xm/in_the_final_week_of_the_2012_election_msnbc_ran/

2 http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/y1k2c/story_about_google_censoring_its_search_algorithm/

3 http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14ugsc/updateredditors_uncover_how_mods_of_rtechnology/

4 http://www.dailydot.com/society/reddit-hire-spam-ian-miles-cheong-sollnvictus/

5 http://www.dailydot.com/news/reddit-ban-porn-mods-nsfw-bribes/

6 http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/oi5si/the_creator_of_rtrees_used_the_stylesheet_to/

7 http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/b8evo/the_community_has_spoken_ive_removed_saydrah_from/

8 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ugzsl/is_there_anything_an_ordinary_reddit_user_can_do/

9 http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1al12y/til_the_moderators_of_rfitness_worked_in/

10 http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1ckj7a/scumbag_rpolitics_mod/

11 http://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/1clo83/rpolitics_mods_caught_spamming_for_site_hits_ban/

We should be friends.

[deleted]

always...

To be honest, I've generally avoided the comments sections of this sub for this reason. However the actual content is for the most part well researched and quite interesting. That's good enough for me to stay subbed.

[deleted]

Seriously. All I see is paranoia and fear mongering.

Or a major event just happened and you're getting increased traffic from people with different opinions. Sheesh

I've been on Reddit for about 8 months now. The reason I'm here is because I'm interested in some of these theories although I don't agree with them. I haven't downvoted anyone. I've engaged in some of these discussions because there's a lot of points being made that are just throwing shit at the wall and then just telling people they're blind or stupid for not believing them. Just as much as there's a growing number of people disagreeing with some of the stuff being said here, there's also a heavy misuse of "No, you're just wrong" as a "concrete" excuse.

I'm in this sub daily but normally don't comment but have to jump in here and agree with OP, some of the user history looks odd i.e. new accounts and majority of comments only in this sub and pretty focused on blind challenging in favor of the mainstream almost seems like bots.

I posted this in a thread earlier where someone shared a similar suspicion.

"This didn't used to be a place to get downvoted for theorizing. We're just getting a lot of attention now, and the people who can't suspend their disbelief long enough to have a discussion come in here and downvote anyone that they don't agree with.

These are theories, guys. Conspiracy theories. To all the many new downvoters coming to this subreddit expecting anything else but conspiracy theories from regular people who have an interest in this sort of thing, please stop making this a hostile place to hear others' thoughts.

I can't believe that CONSPIRACY THEORIES are getting downvoted in this subreddit while outside majority views are getting upvoted quicker than Carl Sagan post in r/atheism. Do you know where you are? "

I really love this subreddit. I hate to see this happen, but any publicity is good publicity, right? :-/ I dunno, this is really bumming me out.

By looking at the stats on this current thread there are atleast 149 shills, because if you are true /r/conspiracy contributor, you would know that the statement OP made has a lot of evidence going for it.

you sure my account isn't less than 30 days because flyingtape keeps on banning me??

The only frustrating thing about this place are the people that think disagreeing about one thing means you are 'anti-conspiracy' (whatever that is supposed to mean)

Is this a place where people can freely share ideas or not??

are there any real stats?

Well if it's official, it can't be trusted.

Every comments sections is now filled with sarcastic comments designed to ridicule any proposed theory and there must be a serious organised effort upvoting them because most of them are near the top.

It's clearly not the usual conspiracy community pushing them up because this is an entirely recent phenomenon and is in total contrast to the normal discussions here which aren't so divisive.

guys be proud, it's a sure sign you have hit a nerve. sort & shame and play whack a mole all you want, they will only come back under new names. treat them like white noise and simply carry on, kind of like you need to do with the MSM. just like them the more they complain and twist the truth, the more you know you are getting closer to reality.

Folks that are way into conspiracies usually tend to have a bit more of paranoia and distrust, it is self perpetuating because you feel in the know. That being said, potentially some reach a higher level of investigation, get over their fear of death and try to follow the evidence without constantly looking behind their back or calling people shills. In other words, fear gets in the way of rational dialog.

im all for it..right now im tired its the end of my day on my schedule so it is a bit annoying right now but when im up im all for a good debate...besides with some of the loony shit ive seen around here for the short period ive been here myself it might not be the worst thing that could happen

You know, I usually don't frequent these subreddits, but this past week, I have noticed a lot of skeptical things about the Boston bombings and have done a ton of research, so I think being curious and asking questions is a good thing - it means you don't just blindly follow. I believe that is what God gave us a brain for - to think! :)

I give kudos and upvotes to those who actually do their own research and aren't afraid to speak up. I don't know what to believe right now about what just happened, but I also think the issues, such as CISPA passing, gun control, amnesty, and the like is more than just mere coincidence.

yea.. you dont see me going on /r/Islam or /r/Christianity and calling everyone a fucktard, and if i did, i'd be banned in a sec.

[deleted]

They don't have much choice, they work for the military cyber army, they sign official secrets and have to do what they are told

This raises a good question. Why does Reddit even "need" down-voting? Shouldn't Upvoting and NOT UPVOTING give the same end result without allowing trolls & shills to game the dialog?

I visit, but I'm not a member. I state "I'm not a Theorist", but I don't denounce anyone's ideas. I'm just pretty old, very experienced for my age, and open-minded: I've seen way too much go down in our country to dismiss any particular conspiracy theory. Do I believe "They" will come soon and take me away to a camp? No. Do I believe that could never happen in the US? No. Do I believe it might happen in a few years or a decade or two? The way things are going, yes. Am I convinced it will happen? Not yet. Am I going to build a fortified bunker and stock it with MREs and AR-15s? No, but if I won the lottery I'd buy a small farm in some remote place and keep it well-stocked as a back-up refuge.

It's amazing how people ignore simple statistics. The US, or as other countries call us, the "Incarceration Nation", currently has 25 percent of the entire world's prisoners - yet only 5 percent of the world's population. More alarmingly, since 1980, the US population grew 2.8 times; the number of inmates increased more than 20 times.

A very large number of them are locked up for simple drug possession. Last I looked, drug addiction is an illness - I know it's covered under my (crappy) insurance plan. You do not get a better stamp of legitimacy for an illness than being than being covered by insurance. Yet they are locked up in state or federal prisons.

The US is already locking up people faster than any other country on Earth. Locking them up for being ill. Knowing this is already happening here in the US, and still refusing to entertain that it can happen here in the US, is simply not logical.

I thought everyone knew that /r/conspiracy was full of shills? With it being the main hub of this kind of stuff on reddit... oooooooobviously this is going to happen. What you need to do is get off /r/conspiracy and go do a different, usually private, source for this kind of stuff. I'm still looking for one, however.

Legitimate discussion? Open minded?

You realize you are the people that are so skeptical of the official line, yet treat every amateur youtube video as gospel, right?

The most powerful government in the world is staging hoaxes of mass murder across the country, involving every member of the media, local police, FBI, government officials, and families of victims -- all because they're afraid of a few bubbas with AR15s. Oh, and they're stupid enough to leave behind all the evidence on the internet and in shows like Family Guy. Seems legit.

hell bent on disrupting legitimate dialog.

,... there is NO legitimate dialog on this subreddit.

Not even openminded discussions. It's close minded individuals who simply wish to force and focus on painting our way of life as false.

In this particular thread, the top poster acknowledges that one of his "FAIL" points is not true, under a later reply; http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cw12j/why_would_they_point_guns_at_so_many_people_and/ - yet, he does not edit nor correct his upvoted post.

This is a sign that most of the /r/conspiracy posters, that post about what they think is a conspiracy are hell bent on altering perception, to make it look like our government is out to get us.

There have been no attempts, that I am aware of, that go out to prove whatever a poster is claiming to be true. This is a website, that has national roots in many places - redditors that can go to these conspiracy theatre sites. So, any one of you can go to Sandy Hook and check shit out yourselves. Any one of you can go and visit these 'actors' from the Boston bombing.

Prove to us, that your claim is true, with hard facts.

Taking images from the media (which you yourselves distrust) and twisting them to fit your agenda makes you look like lunatics. Not open minded individuals that would care for a legitimate discussion.

Now, the reason why this is so serious, is that you are making some pretty significant accusations, and you are perpetuating them - under the guise of opening our eyes,... when you can open your own eyes and think about the actual evidence.

Ergo, since you have no interest in proving something to indeed be false, you are focused on supporting it to be true, by claiming naysayers are trolls or shills.

Which means, you just want to stir shit up,.. over someone else's pain and misery.

Well, for shame. Honestly. Be a fucking human being and think about being in their place; you just got your fucking legs blown off and some cock sucker on reddit is claiming you are an actor, in on a government conspiracy.

Just think about how you would feel about something like this.

Or, sitting back and watching something like this happen (like me).

Cut it out already. Otherwise, some real life karma is going to bite you on the ass real hard.

Hey, I have a solution. Don't come to this sub-reddit?

Or, you can stop spreading lies about things you don't know anything about?

Omg. Do you think it's a conspiracy? This is scary stuff guys.

Set everything to MOST CONTRAVERCIAL instead or best or top. Then you will have your sub back

For a long time, /r/conspiracy has been a small group of like minded people. Meaning that there was no discussion.

After the boston bombing, you've had an influx of people who DON'T agree with you.

And not just that, but are doing the exact same thing you do.

They're putting YOUR evidence YOU provide under scrutiny, something you've not probably not had for quite some time.

Suddenly, you've got people coming in and debunking your evidence, and you decry them as shills in order to ignore them.

No, good sir. I'm not a shill. I wish I was, because that would imply that I'm getting paid. I'm not employed by anyone, nor do I think the government is some bastion of hearts and roses. I'm not even in the US.

I'm someone who posts evidence supporting my claims that go against what you believe, and puts YOUR evidence under scrutiny.

People like this guy. His very first line states "If those students were the bombers, then why were they seen after running away from the blast with their backpacks sill on their backs". Here's a photo of them running away from the blast..

Here's an image zoomed in on Mr. WhiteHat. One of the two suspects. He appears to be missing his backpack.

After the boston bombing, you've had an influx of people who DON'T agree with you have a clue.

Oh no! People with different opinions! They must be illuminati shills!!!!! Right GUIZE!?!? You people are fucking paranoid dumbasses. Please get help.

I would like to become a shill please

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what a stupid thing... to attack /con, we are here because we question shit...BS

Oh my God, its like a conspiracy!

Yes! I just noticed I'm 689 days old and I rarely used my reddit...

Yep. One guy stuck out to me, came in to say RIP to a victim while denouncing the theories. I check his account, one post from 8 months ago on a different subreddit and the rest were specifically on r/conspiracy in the last week trash talking those with theories.

If you do nothing but ignore truth, you're gonna have a bad time.

All of the comments I made after my post about the infiltration, went from some comments being +11 to -2 in under an hour.

I am hear to learn.

[deleted]

Thank you

I am rather new to the sub but sometimes it seems beyond deliberate, rhetoric spewing all over the place--but then again, I know the sub has its dedicated trolls...even still we can't deduce the huge influx to be from actual interest after boston or shillbots. In short, I think people know whats up and a douchebag using crutch put-downs with pure wind will hopefully get old to any intellectual coming here for the right reasons (upvotes or downvotes aside), soon enough.

You don't have open minded discussions amongst yourselves. I can't understand why anyone would have any respect for this subreddit. You provide no proof yourselves, but demand it of others. Real tough guys. If you'd like to circle jerk, take your shit private.

I dont know, I am currently a new user to reddit and my account is less than 30 days old. I recently made an account as this whole Boston situation was unfolding. After seeing so much erroneous information coming from CNN and other news sources, I wanted a better new source so came here. I am pretty opinionated so having an account to say what I want was necessary. As far as "downvoting" and "upvoting", I was and still am kind of unsure how it works. I figured it to be like Facebook's "like" system. If I read something that is appealing to me, I upvote it. If I read something that sounds like a fucking retard wrote it, I downvote it. On Facebook you dont have the option to give them a thumbs down, only the option to give them a thumbs up. I dont necessarily believe you have a bunch of shills coming on here to disrupt your dialog, but maybe a new wave of people who have discovered the greatness of reddit? Who knows those, you may claim Im a shill for suggesting that?

As far as people disagreeing with topics of conspiracy, isnt that to be fucking expected? Like, it damn near just sounds like you are crying that people are disagreeing with you? That is how the game is played, offense and defense. You offer some facts, they offer some, you offer more, they offer more and so on. You dont fucking cry the second you get downvoted and call it quits if its something you truly believe is plausible and worthy of its own thread. If you truly believe in what you post, fucking fight for it like you do.

I refuse to give up on this subreddit, that being said we should go private.

I disagree. I don't think limiting the sub members facilitates discussion or allows for the input of new ideas, theories and evidence. I don't want to see this subreddit become a half-baked circle jerk limited to one or two topics.

Agreed.. I could only see it if we had a million+ users..

[deleted]

So basically a circlejerk behind a locked door? I refuse to believe this /r/ isn't /r/circlejerk-on-steroids beta test, it's gotta be. No one can be this ridiculous. Right? RIGHT?

The answer to this is the same as on any other forum. I'm happy to have more people, really happy, but I think they should have the courtesy to lurk for a while before jumping in and supporting their own opinions. There's a specific mindset being discussed here which is not mainstream or normal and it will seem weird at first glance. Sometimes it is for entertainment, other times it's really genuine. Regardless, if you lurk, you'll be able to tell the difference and won't get called a shill.

There's a specific mindset being discussed here which is not mainstream or normal and it will seem weird at first glance.

Care to elaborate?

Everyone who is into conspiracies thinks a bit differently. It's variations on a theme. But basically:

The government is run by a reasonably small group of people who use money and influence to force through their agenda. Their agenda is to get more control for themselves, to secure profits and eliminate risks.

They are slowly building up a surveillance grid in the US and Europe, and purposefully destabilizing other parts of the world. They allow a lot of people to be poisoned or killed, because they don't actually value human beings that much.

The media is made up of supplicants and career men who are so afraid of losing their jobs that they won't step out of line and speak anything about this cabal, or the general sense that "something is up." They tend to take the line given to them by the government, which is everything is fine don't look at the man behind the curtain. Meanwhile, the media is pumped full of degradingly childish content and we're told this is what's happening in the world.

When specific events happen, people of this mindset tend to assume that the powers-that-be are either behind it or will soon seek to benefit from it. This seems to make sense given the mindset because they are in the best position to negotiate changing national or global circumstances and profit and "tighten the noose" on the average joe.

Their plans for the future, depending on who you ask, is to either kill or enslave the global population, or shuffle us into existential ghettos where we work without hope for advancement and basically live to provide the small elite with a luxurious lifestyle.

Thing is, as crazy as it sounds, if you start looking at gaps in income distribution, and you look at military and political history, it has a lot of truth to it.

The general distrust engendered by this worldview often leads to wild speculation which can seem highly illogical from the outside. But remember, if you DO think this way then to you, EVERYTHING is illogical because everyone is going along acting like nothing is wrong, when in fact we are all in significant danger of losing our liberties and our hopes for the future.

yup

I literally said this a week ago. I'm glad to see it's getting some attention now

This is /r/conspiracy, right? Because lately it feels a lot more like /r/karmaconspiracy...

its a conspiracy I tell ya!

I have noticed this as well. Getting down voted to all hell. This isn't normal.

I think this worked! now all the shills are arguing with themselves...

Id be happy to run a few tests... any one know where to get all the up?down vote data?

So, this subreddit just sucks because of new accounts and NOT because of the general subscribers?

[deleted]

Perhaps, it might also be because members of /r/conspiracy have a nasty habit of implicating the victims of a bombing as being part of the conspiracy.

That's just not kosher.

I honestly don't think there are as many paid shills as you might think. Its more likely tat you just underestimate the stupidity of many people. I would support a rule saying your account must be over 30 days old to post here though. That would help a lot I think.

As usual, a reddit poster has missed the obvious -- registration increased dramatically after the Boston Bombing False Flag event.

Herp derp shills herp derp patsy herp derp derp?

[deleted]

K

[deleted]

Why did you go away when I caught you out using your sockpuppet?

Better make another one.

Name names, and let's see what they have to say for themselves.

yeah, come on shills! prove you're not shills!

How do we know the real overrunning of r/conspiracy is all the posts about it being overrun?

[deleted]

sounds like a conspiracy to me

[deleted]

What's a teaboy?

Or simple trolls

Don't you think people starting flocking to Reddit after the media coverage it got? The length someone has been on Reddit doesn't make them more or less "disruptive".

[deleted]

various shilling agencies

My god...

no. your posting history in particular uses all the shill tactics discussed in the link on the sidebar. you manipulative troll.

BURN THE SHILL

Isn't it something to behold! Not only here but all over the interwebs.

Just how many people and how much money do we have to pay to have our opinions massaged?

Working overtime too, they hardly have time to respond to me tonight!

Yeah, im a genuine person that was pointed to this site by a friend after extensive research into the bombing while the incidents were unfolding in the aftermath....and i have to say...some of these people im not sure if they're genuine emotionally charged people or fakes made up to disrupt discussion about how the events unfolded. Either way i've caught on to peoples slithery demeanor pretty quickly, this is after all a CONSPIRACY site to discuss possibilities that we're being lied to. Keep searching for the truth and sticking up for what you believe in, regardless whether i agree or not.

what is a shill? How do I become shill?

Nice to see someone who understands there is a difference.

Any pictures of them doing something illegal? Not some grainy iphone shit - where you can't ID the people. Photos that would stand up in court? Got a link? Would love to see them.

they are with the CIA, see? I still smell conspiracy, are you mad because people don't think like you?

We have pictures, but how good of evidence are these pictures? I genuinely don't see them directly placing their backpacks at the scene of the explosion, and whether they have their backpacks in the aftermath is debatable, considering the fact that the pictures that were released to the public aren't even good quality nor do they show what is being claimed. If a video is released or pictures of them actually placing a backpack, being the one that exploded, then I'll be on board with what the investigators are saying. Until then we're all entitled to have our doubts, just like the rest of you are entitled to believe that they were the culprits as reported.

What I don't understand or ever found necessary was the immediate witch-hunt against these men when they were still just suspects, and the celebrations that instantly followed. I understand that people desperately wanted to find the perpetrates and seek justice, but based on what? Pictures of them at the crime scene where there were thousands of other attendees? Why are people so impatient for answers that they would be so quick to hunt down suspects just because it's what they're told? Especially when it was claimed to be a Saudi male at first, so where's the credibility? The bombings were vile and the perpetrators should pay the time for the crime, but the reaction of the public was disgusting too. Celebrating without presentation of actual proof and calling for a hanging or other torture to a 19 year old, writing "USA" in chalk on the bloodstained pavement where Tamerlan was killed is disgusting as well. I don't agree with eye for an eye, I do agree the perpetrators should be punished.

I also don't understand why this is labeled as a terrorist attack? Even if the brothers are guilty, motives for the bombings aren't clear yet. The label of terrorism is being justified by the fact that they're Muslim and immigrants, which is discrimination.

Conspiracies get labelled as ludicrous, but many of you are also grasping at straws when you tell us "you have pictures". Yes, we have pictures, but the pictures we have don't show anything other than them being present at the marathon and carrying their backpacks, like hundreds of other people. A lot were grasping at straws last night when they said the pictures provided on the blog allowed them to conclude that the brothers were definitely guilty. The pictures on the blog were dark and grainy, and many of you couldn't decipher skin from weapon or what weapons were being used. What was on the ground wasn't visible either, could have been any object. To make things clear, I never was on the train for the audio provided last night, where people claimed they could hear the brothers claiming innocence. I could hear shouting, but it was inaudible.

Also, why is the story told by the young woman who called the radio station discredited and identified as unreliable because "witnesses are usually wrong and she was too tired and probably traumatized"; yet Jeff Bauman's testimony is credited, despite the fact that the poor guy just came out of surgery (with lots of sedation) after having his legs blown off (even more trauma than someone witnessing a manhunt and shooting)?

I think both sides are quick to jump the gun, when we're still at the early stages of the investigation. Although the investigators claim they have proof, it is merely a claim at this point. I understand people like to theorize and debate, but name calling and telling others that everything is clear, when it's really the opposite is pointless.

Lol you just can't help yourself.

The Iran-contra affair is one of the many true conspiracies. Happy?

lol

But you have to realize that what marginalizes the conspiracy theorists (for lack of a better term - feel free to provide one) is that baseless accusation is given so much leeway and benefit of the doubt that it's like a "boy who cried wolf" when provable instances occur.

they tow the "official story" BS to an extreme. They're not skeptics, more like asshats.

Any account you make and are active on can be traced by your IP address. There isn't any way to hide your activity unless you're dedicated to doing so; like people talk about 'the basement of the internet' kind of search engines. I have no clue how to use those because I don't, but I know they exist.

But seriously, if the government or any higher power wanted your information, whether it be your main account or a second one, they could get it.

Here man, watch this and see what you think. It's a TED talk. You might not agree but give it a listen and see what you make of it.

link

Paid to derail votes? I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I don't know. I'm just saying... That's waaaay out there as far as paranoia goes. Even for r/conspiracy thats way out there.