Let's talk solutions.

20  2013-07-08 by KonDon

People here, and almost everywhere, agree on some things. Congress has a brutal approval rating, we don't like money in politics, we feel like democracy has been hijacked by big business and what not. However, if you put people like that in a resistance movement the eventual outcome is something like Occupy Wall Street, where tons of dissillusioned people come together and essentially complain, until they are finally co-opted by human microphones and social justice issues (ugh). The problem arises when people don't agree on solutions (e.g communism, socialism, free market, anarchism etc).

Let me bring 2 things to the table that people will tend to agree with but aren't talked about. The first one is ending the Federal Reserve. I'm sure people here have looked into it, but the Fed is a private bank which loans money at interest to the US government. It has such a small amount of oversight that I (and many others) consider it unconstitutional. The second thing is states rights. Hear me out. If New York or California wants to be more socialist, if they want to have weed legal, they should be able to do this and vote on the specifics without the Fed interfering and taking tax money to pay for illegal wars (to the extent it does). If New Hampshire wants low taxes they should be able to do this. If someone from NH wants to move, they should be free to do so. This way, competition between states makes way for the most successful ones to be modeled after. Like the founders intended, the federal government and its corruption would be held at bay, while liberals and conservatives can engage in whatever type of social experiments they desire, until some are clearly more successful than others, and people either move out or vote in different leaders.

Criticism and comments are appreciated.

30 comments

Good points. As for the Federal Reserve being ended, yes, indeed. Not going to happen. As for the Federal Government allowing the State Governments more control, yes, it should happen, Again, its not going to happen any time soon. Why won't either of these things happen ? Outside influence. By outside, I mean outside of the US. Israel has such an unreasonable, and Illegal, control over the country that changes can not occur until Israel releases (either voluntary or by force) its grip on the US.

I think the problem goes far deeper than Israel. Some argue that Israel controls the US, others argue that Israel is an aircraft carrier for the US. Some would say that elite jews run our country, others would say that gnostics and mystery schools, secret societies, etc run the world. Either way i'm glad we're on the same page when it comes to the important shit. Too many people here seem to hate capitalism and embrace socialism without thinking of the ramifications and who would be providing that socialism.

I agree. Whoever does actually run the country, it sure isn't the institutions that are supposed to be running things. So much is wrong. So many unanswered questions. Too much of the wrong things and not enough of the right things. Too much concentration of wealth. Too much unemployment. Too many constitutional laws ignored. Too much Military. All of these things are tied together, but to explain it is not easy,

yep. the problem is when people just get exasperated and start screaming at wall street. the only way to solve these things is to fight for states rights, march on the fed, and maybe targeted assassinations. oops sorry NSA :0

Yes. But if you remember, when the Occupy movement tried that the system came down unreasonably hard on the protestors. Meaning that for your suggestion to work, a lot more than 50,000 people have to be involved.

it's not just about the number. it's not even about a coherent problem. it's about a coherent problem and a reasonable solution. thats the only way you get average joes in the streets.

Lets hope that happens...soon.

You represent the People's Front of Judea? I'm with the Judean People's Front! Splitter!

Less, people; less problems. After a decade of bargaining, thinking, weighing... this is my conclusion.
Or limit all nation-states to five million inhabitants, limit all corporations to the borders of those states. And this one never will happen, as mimimimi free market or mimimimi cooperation between states is necessary or mimimi [fill in the blank].

If you want democracy or an agreeable environment, then we got to limit the monsters. The mass is incompatible with democracy.

I actually agree with this. Have you heard of something called Dunbar's Number? Once the mass gets too big and less homogeneous problems arise like in our current democracy.

Yes, but there is still a difference between a small federated 5-10mio. state and a whole continent.

Exactly. I wish there were more like you on /r/conspiracy

We're about 40 years overdue haha.

Exactly. Lol I think were are in dependency and approaching bondage.

/r/agorism is our best bet. Once the state is obsoleted and its incomes and levies dried up, what's left?

Chaos ? Rule of the fist ? Feudalism, tribalism ? Greater power for charismatic religious leaders who can mobilize their masses ? Starvation for those who become poor through laziness, misfortune, illness, or accident ?

I can still see a problem with states competing. Maybe to the point where one state absorbs another, and another, and another. Until, we have one state, or maybe two or three. Could even start civil war in 200 years or so. I personally think humanity HAS grown too large, and our solution is going to be an extremely complex road to real freedom for all.

I would imagine states would simply emulate instead of join together, but even if they did, who cares? If north dakota and south dakota one day decide to join together, that's fine. As long as it happens voluntarily, it's ok by me. If one day they start having serious disagreements, South Dakota can break off.

Well put. We the people need to focus more on the attainable change, not the larger ideological differences we all have.

I believe in order to push the federal government back to a more manageable scale, we must focus on re-empowering the states. I always wonder why like-minded states don't do more to band together and push back collectively. Liberty-loving states should make it a primary focus to ween themselves completely off the federal teet.

Seems to me that a weaker union would just make USA weaker relative to strongly-unified countries such as China, Germany, etc. On trade, military, etc they'd be able to play off one state against another. Decision-making would be slower.

Ending the Federal Reserve is a red herring. Some govt entity has to control the money supply. The govt always will find some way to manipulate the money supply. If you end the Federal Reserve, some new entity equivalent to it would be created.

Unless we go to the gold standard or something. Which won't happen.

And blaming much of our problems on the Federal Reserve also is a red herring. We had plenty of booms and crashes well before the Fed was created. We had robber-barons then, too, as well as now. Much of our debt and other problems today are due to our massive overspending (on the military, agriculture subsidies, energy subsidies, as well as welfare). Some are due to our assumption (after WW II) that we would always be top dog, so it was a big shock when globalization meant other people could out-compete us on production. Some problems are due to automation eliminating jobs, and education being poor so people can't find new jobs.

The first one is ending the Federal Reserve.

If you're going to talk about ending the Fed, you need to begin with what your short, medium, and long-term plans would be to deal with the almost guaranteed global financial meltdown that would result (much worse than what we saw in 2008). I'm not saying I support what the Fed does, but our economy as it's currently constructed would pretty much implode if there wasn't an orderly plan in place to deal with the aftermath of dissolving the Fed. Would the USD be pegged to gold or another hard asset? Would banks like JP Morgan be allowed to print JPM dollars? What happens if China, Japan, and Europe decide to dump treasuries in unison as a result?

The second thing is states rights.

The problem you'd run into here would be social issues. Not too long ago, states rights meant that black people had to use separate water fountains. Obviously an extreme example, but liberals would surely be worried about the tyranny of the majority in states that were staunchly conservative and vice versa. I'm not too sold on the "move to whichever state matches your values" because of the financial costs associated with people being forced to quit their jobs and move their families to another state.

I think the main solution is getting money out of politics. Everyone agrees on this (except the .001% that funds our elections of course) and it's an issue that the media has thus far been unable to divide the population on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

I think the social issues would work themselves out. I realize it costs money to move but in comparison to a tyranny of the majority, it is a decent trade-off.

I don't see how states-rights is relevant to our big problems, which are:

  • massive govt overspending, much of it on the military

  • consumer overspending

  • govt subsidies for fossil energy and big agriculture

  • failure to deal with climate change (related to previous item)

  • failure to regulate Wall Street and the big banks and corporations

  • much of workforce unable or unwilling to compete in a global economy

  • crumbling infrastructure

Most of these things are related; for example, too much spending on military shorts spending on education, including infrastructure such as schools.

Some solutions:

  • cut military/intel/security budget to 1/3 of current levels. Stop invading countries, stop building new carrier groups, stop building new WW III fighter planes, stop building/upgrading nukes.

  • eliminate energy and agriculture subsidies. Enact a carbon-emission tax. Let energy types fight it out in a fair marketplace.

  • constitutional amendment to allow taxing of paid political speech, including lobbying. Needed to help get regulation of Wall Street, reduce power of defense contractors, etc.

  • change from federal income tax to a federal progressive sales tax (with exemptions for necessities, extra taxes on luxuries). We should encourage income and (somewhat) discourage consumption.

  • go to single-payer universal healthcare. Works well in just about all other developed countries.

  1. More states rights = less reason for federal spending
  2. Consumer overspending? Dunno what you mean/if that's a problem
  3. Less federal power = less ability to do this
  4. Watch some suspicious0bservers
  5. Never gonna happen. You just have to not bail them out when they fuck up and load them with cheap money.
  6. Major structural problem.. can't give you an easy solution
  7. ^

I agree with you on the military. I DO NOT agree with you on the cabon tax, read about agenda 21, I do agree with the marketplace. Dunno how i feel about the amendment maybe you could explain it better. Sales tax I would have to think about, I agree with abolishment of the income tax which happened in 1913. Don't agree with the mandatory healthcare.

How would more states-rights mean less military spending ? Lower subsidies to fossil energy or big agriculture ? I don't see it.

Consumer overspending has led to consumer debt and lack of retirement spending. Big problems for the country.

More states rights means that welfare spending goes thru the state, and as a result of the fed reserve and income tax abolishment, people do not pay as many taxes to the federal government. If all your day to day services come from arizona instead of the US, you will find it ridiculous the amount of money needed to prop up our empire. Bureaucracy is how they keep us confused.

Consumer overspending is due to funny money by the FED.

Yes. But if you remember, when the Occupy movement tried that the system came down unreasonably hard on the protestors. Meaning that for your suggestion to work, a lot more than 50,000 people have to be involved.