To be frank, there is a lot of antisemitism in the conspiracy community. Just the other day, there was a thread about Jews planning the first and second world war. Look through the comments in this thread and you'll certainly find some antisemitism. Also, many of the attacks against "Zionism" resemble the attacks Jews faced over hundred of years.

Zionism, simply put, is the belief that the Jewish people deserve a state of their own. That eventually evolved into a belief that the state should be in Israel/Palestine. The motivations weren't particularly religious. Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern political zionism was in no way religious. Zionism was mainly about escaping antisemitism in Europe, which was a common occurrence for many Jews.

After Zionism settled on Israel/Palestine as the home for the Jewish people, many Jews started to flee Europe and move to Israel/Palestine. There were already some Jews who had been living in the area, but this is where mass migrations began. In 1882, the ratio of Muslims to Jews was about 10 to 1. It was 5.6 to 1 in in 1914 and less than 2 to 1 in 1947. In the years after the second World War, there was a civil war between Britain, Palestinians, & Jews. The U.N. proposed a partition plan and the British decided that they didn't want to deal with the conflict anymore and pulled out. After Britain left, Israel declared independence and a war ensued between them and the Arab States. Israel won and expanded it's borders to what is now considered Israel. Instead of a Palestinian state being created, Egypt took Gaza and Jordan took the West Bank. In 1967, Egypt, Jordan, and other Arab States appeared to be preparing to invade so Israel launched a preemptive strike and defeated the Arab states pretty easily. They took Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Sinai. Sinai was eventually returned to Egypt in a peace treaty between the two countries.

In the United States, Jews actually tend to be less supportive of Israel than the general population. The vast majority of evangelicals support Israel, while Jews are more split. Also, many very religious Jews are vehemently anti-zionist, as they think only god can give Israel to the Jewish people.

Zionism, simply put, is the belief that the Jewish people deserve a state of their own.

No it is not. Israel got their own state and they continue to take land away from the Palestinians AND the Lebanese. Zionism is the idea that the Jews are God's "chosen people" and that they are the most pure. Everyone that is not a Jew is the "goyim" and the "goyims" only purpose in life is to serve the "pure Jews".

In the same way the Neo-Nazis want a "pure White race", the Zionists want a "pure Jewish race".

This is correct. Absolutely correct.

[deleted]

And where are you getting this information from?

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Your statement kinda just proved what he said about real hate speech ITT being present.

Holy fucking shit. Are you serious? You think that's "hate speech"? I don't hate Jews at all. People are such fucking pussies. Zionism is simply Jewish extremism. Just like there's such thing as Christian Extremism and Islamic Extremism. I'm not single anyone out or saying they are worse.

Israelis that kill Palestianians are the same kind of religious extremist bigots as the Islamic extremists that want to kill Americans. How is that racist?

"Zionism is simply Jewish extremism. Just like there's such thing as Christian Extremism and Islamic Extremism. I'm not single anyone out or saying they are worse."

You clearly know very little about the circumstances under which Zionism developed over the last century and why most Jews came to support it. Whether you agree with it or not, you at least ought to know the history and reading a few paragraphs from some wikipedia page won't cut it.

What you asset as fact is plain wrong. As a famous US Senator once said, we are all entitled to our own opinon, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Learn the facts before you post.

What you asset as fact is plain wrong. As a famous US Senator once said, we are all entitled to our own opinon, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Learn the facts before you post.

Alright man. I'm not trying to offend anyone here. It just seems to me like we're at a point in this country where anyone can go off about how small minded and ignorant Christians and Muslims are, but the minute you say the same thing about a Jew, the sky is falling down. Whether it's right or wrong, "Zionism" is commonly used as a catch-all term for "Jewish Extremism". I'm not trying to be anti-jew by pointing that out.

Ctrl F, find on page will bring you to this

Some criticisms of Zionism claim that Judaism's notion of the "chosen people" is the source of racism in Zionism,

Now that is not the same thing and a key word is "some criticism" not the literal meaning as you implied and where in that sentence does it say;

Everyone that is not a Jew is the "goyim" and the "goyims" only purpose in life is to serve the "pure Jews".

I'm Sorry but I'm skeptical of your motive here if that is your evidence.

]EDIT]; Here is that entire paragraph

Critics of Zionism consider it a colonialist[8] or racist[9] movement. According to historian Avi Shlaim, throughout its history up to present day, Zionism "is replete with manifestations of deep hostility and contempt towards the indigenous population." Shlaim balances this by pointing out that there have always been individuals within the Zionist movement that have criticized such attitudes. He cites the example of Ahad Ha'am, who after visiting Palestine in 1891, published a series of articles criticizing the aggressive behaviour and political ethnocentrism of Zionist settlers. Ha'am wrote that the Zionists "behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly upon their boundaries, beat them shamefully without reason and even brag about it, and nobody stands to check this contemptible and dangerous tendency" and that they believed that "the only language that the Arabs understand is that of force."[96] Some criticisms of Zionism claim that Judaism's notion of the "chosen people" is the source of racism in Zionism, [97] despite, according to Gustavo Perednik, that being a religious concept unrelated to Zionism.

I didn't say racist, I said hate speech;

Everyone that is not a Jew is the "goyim" and the "goyims" only purpose in life is to serve the "pure Jews".

I am free to label that hate speech since you said it without context, directed at Jews, and changing your wording and saying I'm calling anything r"racist" because I don't agree with your original statement is equally offensive to me.

Do you believe that a Jewish person can be an extremist in their religion in the same way a Christian or a Muslim can?

Easily, anyone can, I've seen extremist Christians in the southern US, but that is not what you said;

Jihadism is Islamic extremism.

This is a concept I have seen many people claim, I never said there is no such thing as Islamic extremism, I said Jihadism does not mean what Islamist extremists interpret it to mean only, it has many meanings, and one should not speak for them all.

Now yes there are extremist zionists, extremist Israelis, saying extremist jew I understand would get you called an antisemite unfairly, but your statement;

Zionism is the idea that the Jews are God's "chosen people" and that they are the most pure. Everyone that is not a Jew is the "goyim" and the "goyims" only purpose in life is to serve the "pure Jews".

Is jsut simply not true and you claim you copied that from wikipedia but a find on page search shows you lied. and just because you think that's what zionism means, that does not make you correct without a source, the article explains very clearly what zionism is, Israeli nationalism, the creation of the state itself.

Ok man. All I am saying is that "Zionism" is Jewish extremism.

If that is your point then I can agree, for the same reason people call such a statement "antisemitic" I prefer to avoid saying jewish, I will say Israeli extremism, because it is to the point, and if they call that bigoted then they are clearly bias and impervious to Israels crimes, but that's just me if you want to call it what you want do it, and let the English see you do it.

I just had a problem with your original statement. that to me was untrue and a few subscribers here have said it before, and I'm just voicing my concern with why so many people think that it is the case.

Everyone that is not a Jew is the "goyim" and the "goyims" only purpose in life is to serve the "pure Jews" ... In the same way the Neo-Nazis want a "pure White race", the Zionists want a "pure Jewish race".

And people wonder why /r/conspiracy gets accused of antisemitism...

The "Chosen People" thing is more about Jews being required to follow a far more extensive list of laws than any sort of purity thing. Also, in case you haven't heard, pretty much every religion thinks of themselves as somewhat superior. That mindset is actually somewhat less common in Judaism than in other religions. Jews tend to be far more likely to be secular than Americans. Remember, the origins of Zionism are with an Atheistic Jew, so it's difficult to make the claim that it's basis is mostly religious.

If you think Zionism has anything to do with establishing a "pure Jewish race", then you have no clue what you're talking about. Plenty of groups want a land for their own. The Jewish people are not unique in that regard.

Finally, remember that the wars in which Palestinians lost land were not wars of aggression by Israel.

And people wonder why /r/conspiracy[1] gets accused of antisemitism...

LOLOLOL. I copied all my points from WIKIPEDIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Jesus Christ. "Anti-semite" is such a catch-all insult to shut people down that it makes me sick. Just like someone screaming "That's RACIST, that's RACIST". It's such a pathetic device used to deflect criticism of an obviously Nationalistic ideology. Zionism is Jewish Extremism. Just like Jihadism is Islamic extremism.

Just like Jihadism is Islamic extremism.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

There are two commonly accepted meanings of jihad: an inner spiritual struggle and an outer physical struggle.[3] The "greater jihad" is the inner struggle by a believer to fulfill his religious duties.[3][7] This non-violent meaning is stressed by both Muslim[8] and non-Muslim[9] authors. However, there is consensus amongst Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against persecution and oppression.[10]

The word literally translates to struggle, and like the christian bible the Quaran is open to interpretation. You should admit you do not know what your talking about, and do more research, Jihadism does not mean only what Islamist extremists interpret it to mean, or at least correct your statement.

[EDIT]; And I pointed out you did not "copy all your points from wikipedia" the statement you made that izzi quoted is not on that page, do a page search, it does not say the same thing, see my other comment to see where you were wrong.

Do you believe that a Jewish person can be an extremist in their religion the same way a Christian or a Muslim can?

There is plenty of anti antisemitism, but frankly given Israel's track record, there are plenty of reasons to be extremely skeptical of the Israeli state. Now before you label me an anti semite, I would say the same thing about the US gov without a hiccup.

Sure, nothing you said is antisemitic. But if you search "Jew" or "Jewish" on this subreddit, you're going to find some antisemitic stuff. Or you could just scan some other replies to this post to find a healthy combination of antisemitism & ignorance.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Ill explain it as i understand from my own research on this topic:

First of all, we must clear the air and differentiate between Zionism and Judaism. Judaism is a religion, while Zionism is more of a movement. The importance of seperating the two terms lies in the fact that zionists can include non-jews, while there are some jews who are not zionists.

Zionism is basically the belief that the jewish people have a divine right given to them by their god to inhabit the holy land. Therefore, they believe that even those who are not related to the original jews of biblical times have a divine right to live there, more so than those who already live there who are not jews (i.e. the palestinians)

I did research, and the movement started with the ashkenazi jews, who are jewish people of european descent. You see, judaism was spread throughout europe as a portion of europeans converted into judaism. since they converted to judaism, they felt that they, too, had the divine right to the holy land. Herein lies the controversy, as several genetic studies concluded that the european jews have no heriditary connections with the original biblical jews. Despite this fact, those converted jews still believed they have the divine right as "gods chosen people." The movement called for an mass immigration (some see it as an infiltration) into the holy land, kicking out some of the original inhabitants who have been living there for generations since and before biblical times.

Wikipedia has a fantastic section about zionism, and id recommend research on the various topics and tangents comprised therein.

As you can see, this becomes a very touchy topic, and is very easily misunderstood as a racial/anti-semitic issue, when the theories about this are actually targeting the zionists, not the jewish.

Its kind of like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Except, its not all zionists are jewish, and not all jews are zionists.

I hope this helped...

Zionism is the beilef that Jews need to have a country of their own in the region of Israel/Palestine. It has nothing to do with religion or "divine rights". The founders of the zionist movement were secular. And to the OP: if you really want to learn about the subject- /r/conspiracy is not the place.

"Zionism is basically the belief that the jewish people have a divine right given to them by their god to inhabit the holy land."

Exactly. This is something that anyone can get by reading just a bit of history. Apparently, even that is too much to expect.

I think that some key parts of this are incorrect.

• Genetic studies have shown that nearly all Ashkenazi Jews are indeed descended from biblical Jews. For the most part, they are closer genetically to Semites than they are to European. I have no clue where you got that claim from, since it's pretty well established that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of Jews that left the Middle East 2000 years ago and are closely relate to the other diasporas.

• I think you overestimate the religious basis for Zionism. It did not initially advocate for the Jewish homeland to be where it is now, that came later. Theodor Herzl was an atheist. The initial goal was to establish a homeland for the Jewish people, since the community had faced a ton of antisemitism in Europe. Later on, they decided that Israel/Palestine was the desired homeland.

• Being the "Chosen People" is less about anything to do with Israel and more about following a lot of laws from the bible.

• I disagree with your characterization of the migration to Israel/Palestine. Many Jews moved there to escape antisemitism in Europe and initially purchased land. They didn't kick anyone out at that point. The disputed part dates to the 1948 war, where after Israel declared its independence, the Arab States declared war and Israel won, expanding it's borders in the process.

Hmm, it is possible i had mixed up the ashkenazim with the whole khazar theory. Forgive me, because it was quite a while since ive done my research on this topic, hence why i made it a point to tell OP to come to his own conclusions based on his own research.

I appreciate you for correcting me where i may have been wrong. Seems like ill be revisiting this subject once again!

This just cements the point that you gotta be careful when researching, especially on touchy topics such as this one. Thanks for the contribution!

This guy is not quite right. The core justification of Zionism is that all jews are descended from those who lived there in the past and therefore have the right to the land now. As such, the inconvenient fact that Ashkenazi jews are primarily descended from Khazars is often lied about.

Although there have been genetic studies done (by zionists) that suggest this is not the case, there have also been plenty of genetic studies done finding the opposite conclusion. So at best, it is very much a controversial issue.

Whatever side you choose to believe, you must understand that this is ultimately a political question - those who are invested in Zionism will find that Ashkenazis are descended from old jewish roots no matter what, because to find it any other way is to deny the fundamental political justification of Zionism.

I'm really not sure who is right in the matter, but he is only telling you the Zionist side of the story. The genius of Theodore Herzel, in my opinion, was that he successfully combined religious and political theories to produce one extremely powerful theory.

And quite frankly, the horror of the holocaust was exploited to found the Jewish state. It made it possible, politically speaking.

Im inclined to agree with you. After i stepped aside and did some little bit extra research in the past few hrs, i came to realize thst there are definately two different sides on this topic. Each side has found genetic evidence for their claim, and each side seems to be fervently against the other, dilluting the possibility of a clear answer to all of this.

Of course, the conspiracy theorist community will most likely side with the claim that zionism is somehow bad, and have acquired high level positions in the global banking cabal. For instance, the current chairman of the federal reserve is Ben Bernenke, and he is in fact, jewish. Theorists claim he supports zionism, though i have not yet found evidence of that linkage. But, as skeptical as theorists are, it is no wonder why they would assume this claim.

This claim that certain zionist leaders hold high level positions in the banking cabal leads some theorists to believe that they pull the strings behind the curtains. They even point out how immediate wall street fluctuates up or down depending on the word of one man, ben bernenke.

Ive found some pro-zionist sites, and in their own words they sum up their movement as "the belief of a jewish homeland for the jewish people, in israel."

I also found references of a certain "sect" (i guess we can call it that) call hamas. And the hamas charter calls for the expansion of the zionist state into arab states and more. They base their belief on the protocols of the elders of zion.

However, even the protocols of the elders of zion has controversy over it, as some claim it is a forgery used as an antisemitic tool to justify the nazis intentions of killing all the jews.

This shit gets deep, so ill refer you guys to one link right quick, which i believe is pro-zionist.

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/zionism/

ill continue to research this topic from the other side of the aisle as well.

TL;DR This shit gets deep.

Found one! This is a great article, actually authored by a Jew. He has been figbting against Zionism for decades. This is a good explanation from a person of the jewish religion...

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

I don't think so. You are just trying hysterically to explain once again the same annoying bullshit that not all the jews are bad. This is the only thing you care about. Instead of explaining WTF Zionism is and why it is dangeorus , as any other secret / occult society that is trying to rule the world. Get a rest. Try to post on r/antisemitism or something like that.

Wow. This is a perfect example of how the misunderstanding of the zionist movement incites tensions. OP, take heed on your research on this topic, and come to your own conclusions from your own research, and try to avoid adopting behavior such as this redditor.

As for you, r/conspirologist, are you implying that all jews are bad? You do understand that being anti-zionist is not the same as being anti-semitic, right?

He told you exactly what it is. The torah says God gave palestine to the jewish people forevermore, so literalists work to re-achieve that. That's it in a nutshell.

Zionism is Jewish state nationalism. Imagine if someone thought that the only "pure" America was one of a single race of "Pure Americans". That's what Zionism is. It is the belief that there should be a single Jewish state of only "pure" Jews because they are the "chosen" people.

It is Jewish extremism in the same way Evangelical Christianity and Jihadist Islam is. Except we don't find many Evangelical Christians killing people in a systematic way (obviously radical Muslims do). But Zionists are the ones that believe Israel is the "pure Jewish state" and the Palestinians have no right to live on their own land because their land is actually Jewish land that belongs to the "chosen" people.

If I wanted to have a country called CAUCASIA where only white people were permitted to live and could fly there for free...you'd call me a racist. If I had names for all the "impure" people that don't share the white race you'd call me a racist.

But when Israel does it it's just fine...

ISRAEL GETS WHAT ISRAEL WANTS

Since you've already gotten some answers about what Zionism is, here's a few notes on why Zionism is bad.

Critics of Zionism see it as a colonialist or racist ideology that led to the denial of rights, dispossession and expulsion of the "indigenous population of Palestine".

Source: Wikipedia

And something interesting which I read tonight, after researching the end of Apartheid in South Africa and the inauguration of Nelson Mandela as President:

14 July 1994

Defence Minister J. Modise issues a statement that South Africa is to end the special relationship with Israel. Modise compares Israel's Palestine policy with the apartheid years in South Africa, collaboration between the two countries on nuclear weapons states that South Africa is to assess every contract with Israel.

Source: NelsonMandela.org

The belief that the chosen people are above the law and can do no wrong.

We are all cattle to them.

It is a movement of the Jewish people. To put it simply, their desire to return to their homeland. It became a known idea in the late 1800s iirc, and started being politicized after WW2. After the British Mandate of Israel, we can see the implications and goals of this movement.

I'm sure someone has explained better than this but this is what it is in it's most simple terms.

OP, i highly recommend these two links for your resesrch. The first is pro-zionist, and explains their side of the story, while the second is authored by a Jew who explains why Zionism is bad and is against judaism and their religious laws.

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/zionism/

This first one also has a bunch of links and sister sites, which would allow you to further your research from their point of view.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

this second link is the one authored by a Jew, and its a looong read, but he explains what it means to be a Jew, he explains some laws and commandments and the tradional though of judaism, and uses these explanations plus some history and more to make his claim that zionism is bad and actually goes against tradional jewish religious law. I found the part of the articke that talks about the agudath israel very interesting.

I hope this helps you in your research, as these are good sources providing you insight for both sides of the aisle.

EDIT: make sure to check out the sidebar on the left in the second link, the page called "zionism and the holocaust" is surely going to be of interest as well...

In brief: Zionists are basically jewish fascists, they have a nazi / occult doctrine that makes the members become all crazy, they hate any other people on earth and consider them all stupid slaves to manipulate or exterminate at will, including their own jews that are not members of zionist organization.

In full: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

We should all just accomodate you, right? these are extremely basic questions. You know google/Wikipedia/dictionary exist, right?

Would you go into /r/baseball with the thread: "Can somebody explain homeruns to me?" And then go on to say:

"While I do see some misunderstanding of baseball in this sub..." Etc. As if you could be the judge of anyone else when you openly acknowledge you have no understanding of the subject matter.

Dude, are you serious? He's simply asking for context. How do you expect people to learn and evolve as thinkers if we're not engaging in discussion with newer subscribers?

And people wonder why /r/conspiracy[1] gets accused of antisemitism...

LOLOLOL. I copied all my points from WIKIPEDIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Jesus Christ. "Anti-semite" is such a catch-all insult to shut people down that it makes me sick. Just like someone screaming "That's RACIST, that's RACIST". It's such a pathetic device used to deflect criticism of an obviously Nationalistic ideology. Zionism is Jewish Extremism. Just like Jihadism is Islamic extremism.

Im inclined to agree with you. After i stepped aside and did some little bit extra research in the past few hrs, i came to realize thst there are definately two different sides on this topic. Each side has found genetic evidence for their claim, and each side seems to be fervently against the other, dilluting the possibility of a clear answer to all of this.

Of course, the conspiracy theorist community will most likely side with the claim that zionism is somehow bad, and have acquired high level positions in the global banking cabal. For instance, the current chairman of the federal reserve is Ben Bernenke, and he is in fact, jewish. Theorists claim he supports zionism, though i have not yet found evidence of that linkage. But, as skeptical as theorists are, it is no wonder why they would assume this claim.

This claim that certain zionist leaders hold high level positions in the banking cabal leads some theorists to believe that they pull the strings behind the curtains. They even point out how immediate wall street fluctuates up or down depending on the word of one man, ben bernenke.

Ive found some pro-zionist sites, and in their own words they sum up their movement as "the belief of a jewish homeland for the jewish people, in israel."

I also found references of a certain "sect" (i guess we can call it that) call hamas. And the hamas charter calls for the expansion of the zionist state into arab states and more. They base their belief on the protocols of the elders of zion.

However, even the protocols of the elders of zion has controversy over it, as some claim it is a forgery used as an antisemitic tool to justify the nazis intentions of killing all the jews.

This shit gets deep, so ill refer you guys to one link right quick, which i believe is pro-zionist.

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/zionism/

ill continue to research this topic from the other side of the aisle as well.

TL;DR This shit gets deep.

Sure, nothing you said is antisemitic. But if you search "Jew" or "Jewish" on this subreddit, you're going to find some antisemitic stuff. Or you could just scan some other replies to this post to find a healthy combination of antisemitism & ignorance.