Considering Rule 1 - No Racism of any kind.

Personally, I feel there are way too many undeserved accusations of racism. Perhaps we need a new rule immediately following that says something like:

No accusations of racism. Report any comment you feel violates Rule 1.

What if I call out holocaust denial? Is that against the rules under that change?

I don't think so. We are discussing about conspiracies here. It is as good as any other theory is.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances

There are a lot of people claiming that the Moon landings were fake, nobody seems to bother about it.

It looks like only the Zionist cabal is against the freedom of speech world wide.

But isn't calling something zionist, a slur?

No Zionism is an actual political-religious movement.

It looks like only the Zionist cabal is against the freedom of speech world wide.

They're not Zionists, they're Jews. Not every Jew is on the same page regarding Israel, but you can be damn sure most are on the same page when it comes to various "hate speech" laws (they drafted and enacted most of them).

Judaism, Zionism... The Satanic motherfuckers behind world finance will wear any veil to conceal their true nature.

What if I call out holocaust denial?

People's views of history differ depending on their various levels of access to actual historical documentary evidence. That's true of many more issues than just the "holocaust".

Would you call someone who believes that Piltdown Man was a hoax a "Piltdown denier"?

Why do you feel the need to apply a derogatory epithet?

If someone denied evolution I might call them a science denier or an evolution denier. If someone denies the Holocaust I might call them a Holocaust denier.

So if I did is that okay? Or are you saying I just should not do that? Or would it now be against the rules to do that?

It is perfectly within the rules here to deny evolution and/or the Holocaust, so long as one does so in a manner that does not prove in disaccord with the rules enumerated on the sidebar.

I get that, but if someone says something like "Jews greatly exaggerate what Hitler did and to whatever extent he acted his hand was forced by them" and I say "whoa that sounds like holocaust denial" ..... is me saying that ok?

Well seeing as there is no rule prohibiting holocaust denial, I see no reason you can't say that so long as your comments, too, are in accord with the posted rules.

Shouldn't be allowed because he makes an unfounded generalisation about all Jews. This should not be viewed as holocaust denier however. Even if some Jews exaggerated the number killed and if some had a role in Hitler's plans a holocaust still took place. I think we have a duty to recognise that various other holocausts have taken place throughout history also however and give these atrocities against humanity the same respect.

I have an idea, stop calling people shit because you believe differently than they do.

What if someone likes Burger King better than MacDonalds, can I call them a golden arches denier?

What if someone likes their coffee black, can I call them a cream denier?

You Sir, are a discussion denier. You have nothing to add because you are too busy running around with your label maker sticking little labels on everything. I hope you run out of tape and office max closes their doors to you.

When you fall asleep on your friends couch, I hope they draw penises on your face because that is the level of intellect required to prefix the word denier with whatever subject your butthole is chapped over.

And I dare you to deny it you truth-spoken-by-flytape denier.

Sincerely,

~Flytape

Beautiful, just beautiful.

CREAM DENIER!

having been formerly accused in public of cream denial, Flytape turns over his subreddit /r/askflytape to skynet to be moderated by bots and self-immolates on the front steps of flavo-rich incorporated.

You Sir, are a discussion denier

I asked if I can call out holocaust denial, I'm not denying discussion, I asked if calling out Holocaust denial was okay - which is part of a discussion.

When you fall asleep on your friends couch, I hope they draw penises on your face

I got home around 2 and slept in my bed. Sorry no crude wieners on my face.

Apart from that you said

What if someone likes their coffee black, can I call them a cream denier?

Are you saying holocaust denial is roughly the equal to not liking cream in your coffee? Like it's just another equally valid opinion?

Are you saying holocaust denial is roughly the equal to not liking cream in your coffee? Like it's just another equally valid opinion?

No I'm saying calling someone a Holocaust denier is roughly equivalent to calling someone a cream denier, instead of having a DISCUSSION about what their actual views on the Holocaust are or why they don't like cream in their coffee.

Its intellectually LAZY to end a discussion by calling people names. Just because the name you are calling them is crafted out of words that aren't commonly insulting, the intent is to "label them" as a group of people you find distasteful. This is only slightly higher effort than just outright calling them a retard, but on the scale of effort it is still VERY LOW effort and not at all a DISCUSSION.

If you want to talk about the holocaust to a denier that's cool I respect that. But for me, it tells me the person is coming from a pathetic place. It's not a genuine argument. Only thing I was asking is it ok to draw attention to someone for making a silly ass argument by calling them what they are.

Then why are you here? /r/history is a click away.

No one needs or wants your approval.

would it now be against the rules to do that?

Not in my opinion. I would not remove such a comment.

Questioning the holocaust is not racism.

What about when someone calls another person a shill or things like that?

Yes I was just thinking about this over the past few days. It can be very unhelpful when users attempt to enforce the rules in public (especially those rules which have a certain degree of grey area) and I, personally, would much prefer that these matters be reported to the modmail or via a PM to any of the mods.

When I was on some old phpbb forums back in the day they called it "_____ modding", I just forget the first word. "Couch modding" maybe? "shadow modding"? Damn it I know I'm close I just can't remember the exact term for the behavior.

Either way, I would like to possibly see a general rule that prevents users from attempting to enforce the rules in public (as this tends to cause nothing but hostility and degraded discussion), but even your proposed change to rule 1 sounds really good.

If accusations of racism are only reported to mods, then it seems it would stand to reason that less community input through discussional involvement happens, thus leaving it all in the mods hands not fully in the open.

I often enjoy reading the open racism, the accusations of racism, & then how the community responds. Sometimes positive change happens.

Example: Sometimes stereotyping stops & direct focus results. A racist statement calling all jews this or that sometimes evolves after group confrontation into "right wing zionists". or Blaming all African Americans for violence using racial slurs becomes inner city gangs or specific individuals or subset groups of them cause [non exclusive to them] violence. Racism often has realities shuffled under the rug that need discussion, under the rug = often reeks of conspiracy & stereotyping is a common ignorant hot headed mistake that needs to not be quickly banned IMO, but given efforts to educate away. If a green dude has his wife raped by a blue dude, then I expect hot headed ignorance venting to be dealt with & not punished by banning, unless the behavior is done continual & troll like, with non opened to earnest cerebral discussion attitude.

Just sayin... reporting like hall monitors, is like behind the back snitching & could lead to abuse depending on the mods sole opinions.

;þ

The problem, as I see it, is that the vast majority of accusations of racism here are undeserved and are made by those that have no interest in discussion, only in verbal abuse and derailing the threads.

I agree troll type racism accusations are often disruptively ill, just as is non cerebral slur only trolling racism stances most often are, & some that act out to the displeasure of the majority need to be dealt with somehow.

I am not much of a sports fan, but maybe an open discussion call for strike flair or a mod strike flair system could be used for both. [Mostly just thinking aloud, more so than seriously suggesting.]

None of it makes for much of an issue to me, as I RES tag mark, & I also update my tags in many ways often, to deal with those I find ill.

I do like to learn from all peoples views, if earnestly cerebral, & just wanted to add my fear of non community input to ban hammers.

Thank you for your civil logical reply to me 0_- & your suggestion that has been placed on the sidebar is also a logical one. I am sure if mods get too wacky with the ban hammer upon people whom do not genuinely need it as the majority of the community desire, then the whole community would find out one way or another & raise a fuss.

Thank you to all here & HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Keep on questioning & pointing out the BS.

;þ

Thanks for your comments. It's an ongoing issue being discussed by the mods so the rules we have in the sidebar may see more changes in the not-too-distant future.

[deleted]

We've now made a change to 1 & 2. What do you think?

I preferred "No racism." tbh. We can all agree criticising a person for their country of birth or color of their skin is wrong. Religion, creed or doctrine are much greyer areas and should be open for debate. With this rule someone could complain for criticism over being a communist/zionist/nazi/rich and actually have a case...

a) the definition of 'slur' is debatable for one thing

b) unnecessarily politically correct

c) opens door for more spurious/bogus reports by jews, zionists & others

Oxford English Dictionary:

Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Slur an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation

As used in Rule 1, that "someone" is taken to mean all members of a certain "race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, social order or creed". When "slur" is use in conjunction with "race", as it is in Rule 1, it has the same effect as "no racism".

opens door for more spurious/bogus reports by jews, zionists & others

I don't see a problem with that. Typically any "spurious/bogus" posts like that are factually debunked on a regular basis here and end up being detrimental to the posters own agenda.

I do see your points though. The terms "insult them" and "damage their reputation" used in the definition of "slur" could be taken to extremes and we'll have to walk a fine line trying not to limit people's freedom to speak their beliefs. The definition of "racism" is only about the belief that the races are different. There's no possibly way we can prevent people from having those beliefs. As long as they can express those beliefs without using derogatory terms and without suggesting that different races should be treated differently, then I don't think they should be censored.

Agree with this. As a matter of fact, I feel we really need more discussion of the actual racism that affects how people relate to each other worldwide.

Relate to each other universe wide 0_-

;þ

Awww, thank you! That's so sweet!!

Agreed!

I love this place and you guys.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to encourage people to continue to do their own research and don't hesitate to make self posts, especially ones that are well-sourced.

Original research by folks who frequent /r/conspiracy will really boost the credibility of the sub.

Speaking of which, here's my vote for best submission of 2013:

The Mountain of Evidence for a Massive International Pedophile Ring Protected by Police and Intelligence Agencies.

Love and peace

And happiness.

And also to you <3 1L

2013 was the year many conspiracy theories became fact. It was a shitty year for freedom and liberty. I hope 2014 is better, but I feel like it will be worse. :(

While anyone who questions official stories continues to be marginalised and ignored, I'm not sure much will happen.

Sorry, it's just so easy to become disillusioned if you see what the mainstream media is pumping out and what the masses say in response to the big issues - the whole passive attitude to it all depresses me. People don't care.

I like your optimism. Maybe it has something to do with the sorts of people that are around me.

it all depresses me

I think that applies to all of us to a certain extent. Still, as long as we keep trying then we can stand up tall knowing that, win or lose, we did our best.

Thanks, happy new year to you too.

All the best to all on the sub. It's been a crazy year here, and despite all the turmoil I think you (mods and readers/posters) have shown yourselves quite well, so good on ya.

Too right mate, let's hope so!

To (Probably mis)quote one of our fave sources, 'eyes open, no fear'. happy 2014.

Happy New Year!

Hello to all the posters here! I wish you a Happy New Year. Let's hope the next year will bring more safety to all of you, your family and friends. Let's not lose the hope, and keep up fighting for the truth.

When you are down and in trouble, keep fighting. Don't give up, keep kicking. It won't help to wallow in self-pity, or curse your stars or play the blame game. Every adversity has an opportunity couched within. It is up to us to grab it. And what you do when the going gets tough, is what defines your outcomes.

Life is not a battle that we have to keep fighting for everything, but about survival, make sure you help others survive as well. Its not about what we achieved, but how we achieved it.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Well said.

Thanks, I discovered this sub this year, and although I live in Latín América, this has been eye opening for me, thanks a lot to all the people who post and keep the good work!

Thanks so much you guys, happy new year! So glad I found this subreddit and learned things about the world I never thought I would learn.

Happy new year.

What a year that was...

I think it would be good to have an updated list of resources, perhaps formatted into a wiki. Another good thing to have in said wiki might be a couple of user-submitted pieces on rationality, skepticism, hope etc..

Could turn some of armchair activists or lurkers into more active members, and promote the spread of a mindset antithetical to the status quo.

Freedom of information is becomi9mm harder.

Don't fall victim to their censorship, or we will pull you up by the hairs in your ass! Ouch that. That being said: Happy New Year, all of you information warriors!!!

2014 is the year we will stand up even more. We have now replaced their gubbinmint money system, and we will replace their leadership as well. Do we need drug pushers, liars and murderers in our government?!? Where are our children right now?

Enjoy the ride, my beloved ;) We'll outsmart them any day, and they know we are coming for justice now - fear not the night.

It's a whole new game, gentlemen. The initiative is now on our side. Happy New Year to you all!

I love you!!!

Love youse guys.

Happy new year everybody!

Have a right brill New Year's!

One of my favorite changes is the definitions of Conspiracy and Theory on the side of the sub.

I've had too many occasions trying to explain to someone the proper use of these words and was baffled by how many use it incorrectly.

Glad to see that a moderator has taken the time to attempt to fix such a pet-peeve of mine.

Keep on, keepin on. One of the reason i still visit the site

Thanks Dong! Long live Dong!

We really need to get rid of the upvote AND downvote system. Just let the information out flow.