nothing to see here

Introducing small, reflective particles into the upper atmosphere

They call it 'stratospheric aerosols' because they are released into the stratosphere which, starting at 60,000 feet, is way above the ceiling that commercial airliners or military transports/tankers can get to. So if the long persistent white trails in the troposphere at around 25 - 40,000 feet aren't part of this programme, what exactly are they doing up there?

edit: Add: "They discuss checmtrails as".... No they don't. The link doesn't mention 'chemtrails'. It describes geoengineering, which has nothing to do with so-called 'chemtrails', and are entirely a figment of your imagination.

Geoengineering IS chemtrails. Lol. Are people fucking nuts? You agree that they are spraying aerosols into the clouds but "chemtrails are crazy"? Jesus fucking christ you are making my head hurt.

It describes geoengineering, which has nothing to do with so-called 'chemtrails', and are entirely a figment of your imagination.

Please explain the difference between chemtrails and geoengineering.

Wouldn't chemtrails be Stratos-engineering where as fracking is geo-engineering?

Please explain the difference between chemtrails and geoengineering

Chemtrails are generally accepted to be the long white lines, sometimes crossing to form a hatch pattern or looping to form ovals, which appear behind aircraft and persist or even merge to form a haze which covers the whole sky. These are said to be chemtrails rather than contrails if they persist for any length of time. They are said to contain a variety of substances including silver iodide, barium, aluminium, dried blood, depleted uranium, and biological or nerve agents.

Geo-engineering is the science of atmosphere and weather modification for a variety of purposes including solar radiation management and cloud seeding. Cloud busting has been a technique used since the Vietnam war to target rain on specific areas. It was used during the Beijing Olympics to help clear smoke from the air. It's done using a variety of chemicals including silver iodide and common builders cement. It uses specially modified aircraft flying in and out of the clouds to spread minute particles which will cause water to condense on them and eventually become raindrops.

Solar radiation management is a proposal for a way to combat global warming by spraying substances such as sulphates into the stratosphere to reflect sunlight back into space. Seeing as geo-engineering, including SRM, has been banned by international treaties since 2010, it is only a proposal with perhaps a few experimental seedings using a modified U-2 spy plane. Ordinary jetliners or military transporters are not able to reach the 60,000 feet altitude needed to make SRM work.

Chemtrails are generally accepted to be the long white lines, sometimes crossing to form a hatch pattern or looping to form ovals, which appear behind aircraft and persist or even merge to form a haze which covers the whole sky.

Is the same thing as:

cloud seeding

Dude. Am I nuts or did you just describe Geoengineering and Chemtrails exactly the same? You even cited a common chemical used in both Silver Iodide. And you said that cloud seeding is done from planes.

Will you at least acknowledge that there are planes that release chemicals from spray devices?

Will you at least acknowledge that there are planes that release chemicals from spray devices?

Will you show me a quote of mine where I ever denied it? Of course planes have spraying equipment; how else are they going to accomplish cloud busting?

And I have to criticise your comprehension skills again. At what point does "long white lines" across an empty sky become the same as "darting in and out of rain clouds"?

I have to disagree with your edit, simply because of semantics. What people call chem(ical)trails are con(densation)trails that contain unknown chemical(s). You can't un-invent a word. If they didn't know, in most cases hopefully it's sulfur, and yes, it is being used to curb solar radiation management. The theory on chemtrails is that it could contain chemicals for things other than solar radiation management, I can't validate any of those claims. But the sulfur in the contrails for bouncing some sun away, that's very real and generally controversial in itself.

All quotes taken from this wiki page please read and educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29

According to estimates by the Council on Foreign Relations, "one kilogram of well placed sulfur in the stratosphere would roughly offset the warming effect of several hundred thousand kilograms of carbon dioxide."

Note, they choose stratospheric sulfuric injection over curbing/capture of CO2 due to it's speed of action.

Speed of action:[12] Solar radiation management works quickly, in contrast to carbon sequestration projects such as carbon dioxide air capture which would take longer to have an effect, as the latter relies on removing large amounts of carbon dioxide before they become effective;[6] however, gaps in understanding of these processes exist (e.g. the effect on stratospheric climate and on rainfall patterns)[13] and further research is needed.[14]

Admittedly, they don't have the full perspective on what they're doing, they're treating symptoms, while ignoring the issue.

Please pay special attention to the side effects, which outnumber the arguments for this practice:

Drought, Ozone depletion (which has been modeled), tarnishing the appearance of the sky, irregular cloud formation, tropopause warming, possible damage to any ecosystem, and a few more.

To dispel the rumors, yes, they can and do spray the sulfur out of airplanes:

Various techniques have been proposed for delivering the aerosol precursor gases (H2S and SO2).[2] The required altitude to enter the stratosphere is the height of the tropopause, which varies from 11 km (6.8 miles/36,000 feet) at the poles to 17 km (11 miles/58,000 feet) at the equator.

Aircraft such as the F15-C variant of the F-15 Eagle have the necessary flight ceiling, but limited payload. Military tanker aircraft such as the KC-135 Stratotanker and KC-10 Extender also have the necessary ceiling and have greater payload.[4]

edit: "educate yourself" in response to anyone ignorant about sulfuric injection, not specifically you your majesty.

KC-10 Extender

Ceiling 42,000 ft, so it can reach the stratosphere at the poles, but for effective dispersion the spraying needs to be done at the equator, so no use.

KC-135 Stratotanker

Ceiling 50,000 ft, so it could reach the stratosphere at the tropics which might be effective.

However, just reaching the lower level of the stratosphere is not what is required. Higher is needed. Yes, it can be done, but on a global scale? Not so much.

Chemtrails = Geo-engineering trails = Cloud seeds.

This is almost universally accepted.

Just because wikipedia says that chemtrails don't exist doesn't make it so.

The people who cannot see the difference between chemtrails, geoengineering, and cloud seeding are very probably the same scientific illiterates who can't understand the difference between evolution, abiogenesis, and Big Bang theory.

Chemtrails are anything a plane sprays, barring pesticides. If you don't understand geo-engineering that's your problem.

'Chemtrails' are the alleged long clouds of poison which criss cross the sky. Yes?

They may or may not be poisonous. They are simply aerosols sprayed by planes usually for geo-engineering

What if I told you there's a completely natural explanation for them that doesn't require any chemicals or conspiracies?

You mean one that ignores oxford university admitting that plane dispersed aerosols are used to change the climate?

www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/

Did you actually read that document? If you did you certainly didn't understand it, because it clearly states that SRM needs to take place in the stratosphere. That means, above 58,000 feet and in reality much higher than that at about 80,000 feet. The contrails you can see are 50,000 feet below that, so how can they be part of SRM? You have been hoist by your own petard. And yes, I'm aware the graphic shows an ordinary aircraft dispersing aerosols. Firstly, it's just a graphic explaining general principles of what could be done, and secondly if aerosol spraying was to take place it would need specialised aircraft like the U-2 to make it happen.

Dude its just water vapor from aircraft..

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-UU928_1003v2_J_20121002181002.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/II_World_War_contrails.jpg

http://depletedcranium.com/b17contrails.jpg

What is the point of chemtrails.. don't just say "geo engineering" what the fuck are they engineering. Is the earth changing in some magical way I don't know about? the weather is roughly the same every year, 4 seasons are roughly the same, the earth is getting hotter but that is because of carbon emissions.. so again.. what exactly is the point of chemtrails?

The Sumarians came to earth to mine gold in order to suspend the gold particles in their atmostphere to protect their home.

Edit : Supposedly.

Weathermodification.com

"You look up in the sky and see clouds. We see potential!" That is literally their slogan. You can't make this shit up

ok... so what does that have to do with geo engineering? cloud seeding has existed for a long long time. again take a look at my pictures from the 40s

ok... so what does that have to do with geo engineering?

Weather Modification, Inc. is the largest geoengineering (ie chemtrail sprayers) in the whole nation. Look into their resource library for the scientific background and look at their client list to see who's using them. Chemtrails/Geoengineering/Solar Radiation Management has become big business and Weather Mod, Inc. is the biggest.

Want to see another chemtrail company that will blow your mind www.brand-drops.com . This company is literally spraying perfumes that smell like fast food into the clouds for fast food chains. They are literally advertising through smell. You can't make this shit up.

ok...and again what weather modification? it all seems the same as it always has been to me

You are not answering the question. which is: "what does that have to do with geo engineering?"

And your 'brand-drop' is an April Fools joke.

This is an exceptionally poor example of what you are trying to prove. Look at the already existing cloud coverage, the conditions are ripe to stimulate cloud formation.

It forms upon condensation of the water vapor produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud. On rare occasions, when the air is nearly saturated with water vapor, air circulation at the wing tips of an airplane may cause sufficient pressure and temperature.

While we know for a fact that the US gov has sprayed shit on people (Multiple tests during WWII) we also know that this phenomena has been happening since the first jets starting seeing use.

Contrails =/= chemtrails.

those are not contrails... contrails dissipate, chemtrails expand into a "cloud." if they were just contrails then why do the pilots deem it necessary to fly over the same areas repeatedly until its full of trails? regular planes that just emit vapor contrails do not make grid-like patterns in the sky - what they are doing is very deliberate.

and if you look at the sky after a heavy day of spraying you can even see an oil-sheen halo around the sun where the light is refracted off of the particulate in the fake clouds.

we also know that this phenomena has been happening since the first jets starting seeing use.

Dude. Weathermodification.com

How do people still deny that Geoengineering is real? Need more proof?

• http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/25/geoengineering-side-effects-potentially-disastrous-scientists
• http://www.theguardian.com/world/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jan/15/geo-al-gore-engineering-climate-disaster-instant-solutio
• http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/06/bill-gates-climate-scientists-geoengineering

That still has nothing to do with commercial aircraft.

What does it matter whether they are spraying from commercial or private aircraft?

Yes. If they are spraying from commercial aircraft Ill have to have a discussion with my friend who is an airline mechanic.

Still waiting on this response. Did you ever talk to your friend? For this to happen, it would require the collusion of mechanics like your friend, so i'd like to hear what he has to say

Ahhh gotcha. It would definitely be interesting to see how many people in the airline industry are in the know on this kind of thing. From what I've read, most of the spray devices are temporary and removable.

Here are some pics an alleged mechanic snapped off of one of the systems: https://usahitman.com/lpocds/

I live on Long Island, and i have noticed lately that anytime a "big storm" is coming, I see tons and tons of planes in the air, all with chemtrails and at different altitudes.

This is commonly seen by myself as well as a family member who lives on the west coast.

Magic. isn't it? Every time a cold front approaches the contrails appear.

I think the lower altitude is probably what is referred to as cloud seeding. Might make sense to try to create some clouds under the aerosol in order to keep it elevated? I have no idea, just a shot in the dark so to speak.

I WANT TO LOOK UP AND SEE A BLUE FUCKING SKY, NOT A HAZY GRAY FLOATING CHEMICAL SPERM BATH!....and it all has to fall somewhere. I wish there were some way I could take this into my own hands and do something about it.

I indeed have watched the documentary and recommended it to a couple people but...you might guess how that turned out. I've tried to insert some comments about the subject in some conversations around where I frequent (such as work, home and friends' house), but when it all come down to it, who is going to listen to a lowly 24 year old. The generations above me have been conditioned into their respected views through their life and they may seem stubborn on these views. I don't necessarily blame them, but it is unfortunate.

I still try to, at least, get the word out and let them wake up themselves because forcing something like that gets me labeled and stigma-ed....but I'm not done yet.

What do you mean "why"? Global warming is going to kill us all. Geoengineering is our only hope!

Climate change*

This is disinfo. This guy is a Haversack diversion.

Edit : Why did you delete your other comment?

I live near Washington DC and the spraying was crazy this morning. I had actually recently changed my opinion on chemtrails/geoengineering and stopped thinking that chemtrails were nefarious. Then the other day I read something about an increase in spraying over the next two weeks and I've already started to notice it. I didn't have my phone with me or I would have taken a picture but it was multiple chemtrails (5-6 lines) that were all perfectly parallel to one another in the sky. Then there was another set of them that was criss crossing like a basket weave. I was kind of alarmed! And then I came to work and read this...

"Geoengineering and the IPCC"

If I were to believe in chemtrails, geo engineering, whateever, I refer to the Sumarians and their need to obtain gold from earth, in order to suspend the particles in their atmostphere in order to keep their planet going.

Who's to say this isnt protecting us? You have to think of it this way; if they are sabotaging the earth, they are also sabotaging themselves and their families. (they as in, THEY)

Ok well, geoengineering is real. Sulfuric injection in the stratosphere, is real, and is what is pictured. Here's some wiki:

According to estimates by the Council on Foreign Relations, "one kilogram of well placed sulfur in the stratosphere would roughly offset the warming effect of several hundred thousand kilograms of carbon dioxide."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29

You have to think of it this way; if they are sabotaging the earth, they are also sabotaging themselves and their families

I don't HAVE to, I could think for myself: I could think that these people believe they are helping but the system (PLANET FUCKING EARTH) is too large and ultimately chaotic for us shitty hairless apes to be able to rapidly predict and act accordingly. Surely what they're doing is delaying the actual issue, a bandaid on a knife wound if you will. They're not fixing it by injecting sulfur into the stratosphere, but only prolonging the period of time in which humans don't feel symptoms, therefore don't change their ways, therefore get hit even harder when the symptoms show through the bandaid.

I want you to never tell someone how to think ape unless you're telling them to think for their fucking self and questioning all authority. Especially yours.

You certainly have a bit of a hostility problem. It was some wording. Offset doesn't mean delay. So your analogy is about as useless as your input.

[deleted]

I have a feeling you will be one of the first crash dummies to get killed if the shit hits the fan.

I welcome death

Good. To the front lines with you.

Been there, got the medals and scars to prove it. Come at me bro, turrorists couldn't kill me.

COME AT ME BRO

COME THE FUCK AT ME BRO

Wow big words! Did your middle school teacher tell you what they mean this morning? It was an impressive copy and paste, but kinda useless.

Wanna know what delaying does? It gives us time to find a real solution. Do you have a perfect solution to global warming? If so I'm sure you could make a case for a Nobel prize, cause we don't know how to stop it.

Let's throw the idiot and use his own analogy. If I put a band aid on my shiny new knife wound, it won't work long. But maybe it works long enough for me to find a hospital, who can fix it.

He deleted the comment lol.

8====D

If I put a band aid on my shiny new knife wound

Then you're a jackass. We know direct pressure would do you better for stopping the bleeding. We also know how to curb carbon emissions.

Would you put a bandaid on if you knew direct pressure would help stop the bleeding? Would you put a bandaid on if you knew it wouldn't stop the bleeding? Would you put a bandaid on if it had unknown pathogens on it or might cause untold repercussions?

Want to know what delaying does? Makes this the next generation's problem.

I didn't make the analogy, I just used it. Tell me, in the case of global warming, what is the "putting pressure on the wound?" Because I don't know, and if climate scientists knew, they would probably be doing that.

And we can't help but make it their problem if we literally can't solve it.

It literally can be solved, nobody wants to approach the actual problem, humans need to change their ways. The full and only true solution, which is simple to say but hard to do is not making the emissions in the first place. Or, stop burning those fossil fuels, now that we've dug a deep enough hole to bury us twice over. You see any signs of stopping? Every car plant in this country made 1000 more fossil fuel burning machines today. Shit Bejing can't read any signs period, but they're manufacturing how much shit? for all those other countries? We can't stop them! How will we get our nikes and iphones! Don't worry, when it gets real bad, we'll just reflect more and more of the sun away, it'll be ok.

We could worry about where and how to sequester the carbon, but one needs to be producing less than they are removing for it to be lessening. This isn't the case, and I would love to see the black and red numbers from human influence alone. I'm sure we wouldn't be doing half as bad if deforestation wasn't regular practice, but hey, there's money to be made off that land, and lumber isn't too lucrative.

Because I don't know, and if climate scientists knew,

You don't know.. that's goddamn right, but nonetheless, they do know and here you are acting like you do trying to argue with someone else who does.. Next time save the opposite person the trouble and type that shit into google and educate yourself for whatever troubles your internet connection cost you.

Ignorance solved, fucking here learn some things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_removal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration#Reducing_emissions

Note: injecting sulfur into the stratosphere doesn't remove any carbon, it just prevents the sun from reaching the Earth. NOT A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM A TREATMENT OF THE SYMPTOMS. This is like you getting ebola and the doctor giving you tylenol for the fever... you still have ebola.

Two images (not mine) of the carbon cycle on this planet: http://imgur.com/FdW2EPb http://imgur.com/4cuHWr3

Tell me /u/Marinah in these images where do you see a potential for the storage of carbon in organic ways? Do you see sulfuric injection anywhere on there? Why?

You seem like a turd. Go have some coffee.

If they were doing it to protect us, CNN would be rejoicing at how great it is every day.

IF they were doing it to protect us, the environmentalists would FREAK OUT.

In the case that they might be doing this to protect the earth, I think that would be something they keep classified because its simply too much for the vast amount of simpletons in America/on Earth.

Doubtful.

[deleted]

It is not disinformation. It just a suggestion of possibility.

'Chemtrails' are the alleged long clouds of poison which criss cross the sky. Yes?

You mean one that ignores oxford university admitting that plane dispersed aerosols are used to change the climate?

www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/