I don't vote because I sincerely believe it does nothing. Plus there is yet to be a candidate that I feel represents my interest, so no one worth voting for.

I agree with the thought that voting locally is important. However, the shit you should be able to vote for is never on the ballot. There's no real democracy in this country.

Because not voting matters too. It means something when people don't show up. Even more than that, it means something when the numbers of people who voted vs. who actually did conflict (as they have done in many states, and countries, as long as voting has existed).

I don't vote anywhere. I don't agree with it. Leaders will NEVER be able to appease everyone. It's unrealistic to expect that. Democracy is flawed in many ways, but I am talking about the way that it creates an Us vs. Them attitude.

The more people vote, the more legitimate the election seems. Everyone who votes is essentially declaring that they see the process as valid, and that they agree to abide by the results.

It's not about "them," it's about us. When the average person finally realizes that it's all rigged, the government won't have any lies to fall back on for their puppets. Who voted for this person? Nobody. Nobody did. The government doesn't represent the people and we can show that by refusing to participate.

Whatever the government wants to happen, will happen.

Nothing will change until the foundation of our government changes.

So...sit on our hands and keep posting to Reddit?

Nowhere did I say, nor imply that.

Again, that isn't what I said.

Whatever the government wants to happen, will happen.

Whatever the government wants to happen, will happen.

I believe this is an accurate statement at least on the bigger things. Like most recently in Canada. The government wanted more power to spy on its citizens so they created an event that would enable them to pass laws to do just that.

Countries that have gone through intense periods of disillusionment have a solution for all of this and that if not enough people vote then the election is invalid and must be remade again. America has yet to reach peach disillusionment and so just doesn't really understand this concept (yet).

I don't see the propaganda your talking about.

Ron Paul made a big stir in 2008, he got a surprisingly large amount of votes in the primaries despite the mainstream media actively marginalizing him. It may seem like nothing was accomplished but the People in Charge were at the very least forced to expend resources to co-opt the movement and transform it into something less threatening and more polarizing; the Tea Party.

Voting third party is more effective than not voting. Paul never really had much of a chance, I understand that, but look at how They reacted to his grassroots campaign. There were people who were very serious about making sure no-one took Paul seriously. Paul was GOP but if a third party gets 20% then the whole illusion that there are only two choices starts to crack.

I was a kid when Perot was running, I ignorantly laughed at the media's mockery of him along with everyone else. Now whenever I see a clip from that campaign it's clear he was making a little too much sense and had to be turned into a cartoon character. I didn't know he got that many votes, that's amazing.

If I'm correct then it seems that Perot dropped out due to fearing from the CIA going after his family and then manned up and got back in only to then be ridiculed for being crazy and not serious.

Rand Paul has a decent shot at getting the R nomination.

He's the best hope (not really saying much at all) that actually has a shot.

then run for local office. its super easy. I got really fucking pissed off, made a few phone calls, next thing i know im running for city council. local government is a huge deal.

Yeah it'd be cool to run for office. However I'm barely authorized to work in the US, so attempting something like that could be extremely challenging or impossible. Plus I have no faith in the current system.

theres no real democracy because last I checked we were not a democracy, but a republic, where the only say the people get is what our elected officials say we get. and we do that because a true democracy is horribly inefficient and even easier to be repressive.

I think the word you're looking for is oligarchy. Check it out in case you've never heard of it. http://www.globalresearch.ca/its-official-scientific-study-shows-that-the-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-not-a-democracy/5377987

Voting signals condoning a fucked up system, simple as that.

It shows dissent bc people like you get your panties in a bunch over it

Who's behind it and why?

It's not a matter of "who's behind it". It's a matter of "what ideas are behind it". And the ideas are voluntarism etc. You're making it sound like it's a conspiracy (right subreddit anyway) to get people not to vote. I think it's quite the opposite. It's people opposing the conspirators that subjugate them.

You're making it sound like it's a conspiracy (right subreddit anyway) to get people not to vote. I think it's quite the opposite. It's people opposing the conspirators that subjugate them.

This. People make this false assumption that "democracy is virtuous" because of the social conditioning/brainwashing that they have had to endure. When you examine the fundamental morality of "democracy", then you find out how immoral "democracy" actually is and why it is just another trick to keep people in compliance with our rulers.

But voting is the one opportunity to send a giant fuck you.

I've done that many times over the years (I'm 68) without ever voting and with much better results.

I don't get why people would resist it when it takes 10 minutes

It's a matter of principle, not of how easy it might be to go against those principles.

Sorry, but I've got to go to bed. I'll respond tomorrow to any further comments you might have.

I don't get what you don't get. Even if you vote the validity of many elections is under suspicion. Just look at the recent rash of voting "errors"

No one knows if people don't show up? Huh? There are all kinds of statistics out there, and if it ever gets to the point where there are just as many people voting as there are who aren't that speaks volumes. Hopefully there would be some change. Hopefully there will be before then!

How does "winning" an election with a low voter turnout signal legitimate consent to be governed?

If you think not voting is about being edgy this "conversation" isn't worth continuing.

I'll let some fresh person futilely argue your bait or genuine yet misguided viewpoint.

I've already won bud.

Why are you so insistent on putting words in my mouth? And I think you know exactly what the context is here. Like I said, I already won.

What can you do, everyone's a know-it-all who knows nothing. People are stupid.

Well he certainly has the wrong attitude.

Always responding with questions and never saying anything substantive yourself. Nice game, but very obvious.

I'll let you have the last word or in this case, disingenuous question.

Just be glad that idiot isn't voting

Not enough people will vote for a third party candidate for some reason. So it's like throwing away a vote. Yet another reason to not vote. No one has to be told to not vote. Its likely an ideology and is far from a conspiracy. The majority want people to vote the "propaganda" you speak of is self perpetuated

If you vote, you are giving your complicity with an immoral system where we use the state as our agent of violence to solve problems and take things from others.

For instance, I don't come over to your house and steal from you because I am not a scumbag. I also will not go to a voting booth and ask the government to steal from you because I am not a scumbag.

I don't have the right to do these things to others and using the state to force people to do things "the way I want" is an immoral use of violence.

Why not vote for the little local things that might actually effect your city or town?

Big local things that WILL affect your town.

Last year there was a tax increase measure on the election ballot, and it passed, and my town is now paying higher taxes.

Your local elections are your most important elections as they always DO have a direct noticeable impact on where you live.

If you don't think voting in your local elections is important, you're an idiot, sincerely.

The system is broken, yes, but it is still in effect, ignoring that is stupid and reckless.

Our state and local legislature still have the authority to pass legislation which the police and federal and state government have the authority to enforce, through violence.

This shit isn't a game or a joke, it's real life and it's dead fucking serious.

Let's all destroy this "don't vote" bullshit, all it does is serve the interest of those already in power.

How do you get those fuckers out? VOTE.

VOTE YOU SONS OF BITCHES, VOTE OR NOTHING CHANGES.

Why not vote for the little local things that might actually effect your city or town?

Because you're still, by and large, voting for tweedle-dee or tweedle-dumb, no? Most local election candidates are as hand picked as the national ones, especially in the cities.

Also, by voting, you're saying, "I support the current system and believe that I can affect positive change within it."

I, personally, do not support the current system, nor do I believe that positive change can come from voting within its confines.

I do however agree that it is a little fishy, all of this "don't vote" stuff that's been going around. Most likely just another attempt at creating division amongst the populace: "You voted?! Why the fuck would you vote?" or "You didn't vote? Why the fuck would you not vote?"

Why not vote "Fuck you both?"

Why even waste your time doing it at all if you're going to vote like that?

It's literally all bullshit, man. Voting. Is. A joke.

How many articles exist already showing that programs have absolutely been written to manipulate vote tallies?

It's not voting that's gonna make a difference on this planet. Voting is used to placate the dumb masses and make them think they're actually making some sort of difference (lol) when they're most definitely not and are, instead, simply getting in line to contribute to a system that is not designed to help you or me or any of us.

I don't live in the proper country to participate in your current elections, was just expressing my views on voting.

Start small then the movement grows.

You can't influence without insane wealth the people. You can however show the world there is MILLIONS doin log this. Think of it like a disease its gotta spread the idea is become the cancer that kills the cancer.

The whole political system is a lie. Our country has been hijacked by criminal sociopaths. Voting makes you think you did something, when you did nothing. Find another way.

If a large enough group doesn't vote, nothing can happen.

In theory..... in reality LIES! Its a push to make the world stop. They won't take protests seriously let's try and show them through ACTION that we do not support bullshit.

If a large group doesn't vote, what they don't want will happen.

I totally understand not voting in presidential elections, that doesn't really ever change anything except faces, but local elections are about your district, county, city and state. In Florida we have some really good amendments on the ballots (MMJ and Wildlife conservation are the two that stick out). I didn't vote for any people (except this one guy who was the only person running for his office), but I'll be damned if I'm not going to vote for an amendment or proposition that I believe in.

If the group is large enough you can shut the government down.

Or be lied to about numbers which will light the fire of the revolution. The idea is show action just short of arming up and fighting its the next "best" thing.

People just aren't angry enough, to caught up in there propaganda media outlets.

Problem is just like voting you have no idea if people voted or not..so in reality you are damned if you do and damned if you don't... So no one votes...how do you know?

They could just pass whatever and say people voted.. Anonymous voting is the problem. Everyones vote should be public and verifiable that's the only way votes count. Stand by your beliefs don't oppress people with anonymity maybe that will finally stop this fake overly PC society

This system is corrupt, so voting is participating in (=validating) a corrupt system. This is rational behind the "Don't Vote" movement.

However, the people likely to understand and agree with this thinking are just those people that the powers that be would most like to stay home on voting day. It rids them of the need to fix the vote after the fact.

for an anarchist, to refuse to vote is to refuse to play a rigged, losing game. An anarchist voting is like an atheist being baptized. Like they say, if voting could change anything, it would be illegal by now.

I agree, I think voting is a waste of time. But I also think telling others not to vote is a waste of time.

It's really quite simple. Voting is a statement that you approve of and accept whatever follows.

By voting, one implicitly agrees that the outcome is legitimate. Once one has agreed to it's legitimacy one must accept the consequences.

As I said, it's just so simple it amazes me that so many fail to understand.

Edit: No, I did not downvote you.

I don't believe in any form of government and refuse to participate.

I can't make it any clearer than that and if it makes no sense to you then that's your problem, not mine.

I have stated many times here that I don't vote but I've never said to anyone "don't vote".

Well, you'd certainly want your opponents to abide by the results if YOU won, wouldn't you?

I saw a quote recently that said that voting was like having faith that the Oompah-Loompahs actually choose which type of candy they make.

That is about generating revenue through taxation. it has little or nothing to do with "democracy in action".

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/hacking_democracy enough said.

Because there's no real option. It's a monster with makeup or a clown with guns in his poofy shoes. I refuse to act as if I have a choice, when in reality it's just another head from the same hydra. Why should I? Electoral college is a ruse. The people in control will not step down except superficially, so they continue to exist and step even higher.

I wrote a piece saying I was going to vote for myself or "your mama" but I changed my mind and will be voting for a few third-party or no-party candidates who at least claim to be against the police state and drug war. The rest will be write-ins of my own name. I think you're right that not voting at all is counterproductive.

I think you're right that there is a conspiracy to convince people like us not to vote. On the other hand I think there are a lot of people who just figure it's pointless to vote and it makes sense to them that the vote won't count anyway and you're kind of consenting to the results by voting in the first place. So a lot of them probably aren't intentionally trying to do harm but are just misguided.

I have no idea how I'm supposed to know who to vote for for things like school district board members and university regents. Have no idea who they are and there's no info on them. I guess I'd have to follow that crap closely to decide.

I voted No on every proposal and millage. The proposals were government power grabs and taxes are a scam.

After voting today I actually felt somewhat sorrowful because my vote really doesn't matter, won't change anything at this point, and people are all voting for awful candidates. Feel like I'm alone in a sea of fools.

Here's a good thought exercise.

I am trying to develop a new habit where I don't tell someone "I'm going to do such and such". Instead, I just do it. Because neurologists have determined that when you tell someone about your plans, you get little dopamine rewards as if you had accomplished something.

So going down and voting for "the lesser of two evils" is giving you some satisfaction in your brain as if you are an important part of the process. You're not, you're more valuable not buying into the system at all.

If you had enough time to go and research everyone who is running, and then go and write in your candidates [anyone worthy enough for me generally doesn't make the ballots] - at least your candidate can then appear in the results, right?

Nope. The same media that doesn't give them any exposure still isn't giving them exposure. So you've wasted time that in my opinion, you could have used to learn about solar power, or design a water catchment system so you can drink water without flouride.

I do not participate.

You can always make a valid argument for the incremental good your actions today might cause. And good for you for doing it.

However I am so disgusted by the whole lying system I believe complete and utter diconnectedness from it is the only way for meaningful change.

At this time the system is not working. The government will be bankrupt before momentum swings the other direction.

I am not for rebellion in the old fashioned sense. But I am taking my money out of the banking system and going anarcho syndiclist. I want to build a pond with tilapia/hydroponics and barter the tilapia for things I need in my community. I do programming to earn petrodollars and I have been trying to pay my taxes however am in bankruptcy and have already lost my life savings. The system didnt work for me even though I worked very hard for many years. That effort was useful only as a lesson.

I would like to help cryptocurrency sweep the current system of usury away. Baby steps.

Yes and no. Using a tumbler you can make Bitcoins untraceable. But unless you're buying illegal things, who cares if they can track it? The financial system is your fingerprint, how could Bitcoins be worse?

Check out Darkcoin and the upcoming Ethereum.

I don't care if the government knows I'm a drunk. They helped contribute to it with the insane world they have created.

Having had clearances and also worked under DOT guidelines, I gotta tell you, as long as you're not showing up to work drunk you're fine. And under DOT, they use the drug testing as a tool. If someone doesn't fit the profile, the randomized testing hits. Same for airline employees, Senior Flight Attendant for a major airline gets a random coming into customs.

And TBH, I'm all for it. You sign up to do a job, you do the job. You agree to something, you follow through. I think for most jobs drug testing is bullshit, but you're going to work for the Government [ostensibly public service] - or you're going to work in transportation, you leave your vices at home.

I've not seen it personally but they can and do test for alcohol now too. And even under DOT there were only random piss tests. [I never got tested except to get the job] However I know a WAITRESS who got a hair follicle test and it had like years of history.

Privacy is an illusion. Darkcoin is a step in the right direction. But worrying about what they think will shorten your life.

I done got got. I do grok spock. I keep mentioning Darkcoin.

Also check out Ethereum I think that will be great.

http://imgur.com/F25Igfx

“I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don’t vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, ‘If you don’t vote, you have no right to complain,’ but where’s the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote — who did not even leave the house on Election Day — am in no way responsible for what these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created.” — George Carlin

If you vote for a major party, you might as well not vote at all. Nothing will change.

Some people think that voting is immoral because the system is simply a monopoly on violence, and you're only contributing to that violence by participating. Most never stop to think that given that violence, voting might be a form of self defense.

I never vote because there's never anyone worth voting for. I would vote for a voluntaryist though (which seems bizarre).

But, if you really do want to vote, you will achieve more if you piss or shit in the ballot box.

I only vote for secular candidates. In my area, we have two catholics running for governor. I can't vote for someone that believes a giant dude in the sky cares who you have sex with

First is that they must be secular. I don't care if they have a religion themselves, they must run a secular campaign.

After that, then of course I vote the issues I most care about.

Ralph Nader ran a secular campaign. He was easy to vote for

whoever votes cant complain about anything later on - you give your own "voice" to someone else, so you lose your voice. In addition the US voting system is more like polls (opinion polls), you can submit your opinion, this no longer means that you elect anyone.

that is not what I understand as "vote", this would be a petition, which you usually sign with your name and address. I was referring to a political vote, i.e. presidential election

I think the solution in all countries in the world today is that the more local an election is, the more meaningful it can be (so I agree with you). The more "federal" an election is, the less meaningful it is and I would never vote in such en election, not even at gunpoint.

Oh and they know conservatives vote more in midterm...they don't want that. Propaganda from all sides of the same coin.. Another shift is coming...more war is the trend..

I've definitely seen more of this worrisome message this election cycle. Here's what I just wrote in another thread:

"I will never understand people who don't vote. You think all the options are crappy: that I can understand. But by not voting you are giving your tacit consent to be ruled by these clowns. Stand up for yourselves. Go into the booth and write in Captain Cockface for every candidate, for all I care, but please just cast a vote. Be actively defiant. Your passive defiance gets spun by the media as apathy. Instead, show the politicians that there is a bloc of engaged citizens with the motivation to get themselves to the voting booths but who simply are not interested in what's being sold there. #CaptainCockface2014"

Not voting gives more legitimacy to the election results, because the media can report it as "Corporate Puppet X won with 52% of the vote," and just ignore the fact that only 40% of the population voted. If all the frustrated people got themselves to the polls to vote 3rd Party or write in some message, we might get something like "Corporate Puppet X wins with 38% of the vote," instead. 38% of the vote can't be interpreted as a mandate no matter how you spin it, but with 52% they can claim it was the will of the majority, and those who didn't vote must ok with it.

CaptainCockface

What ticket is he on?