Why is this sub-reddit so reactionary?
0 2014-12-20 by ResidentDirtbag
Hello,
I've noticed a trend when it comes to the politics of this sub-reddit.
It's particularly 'cold war' in it's views. It openly excepts the idea that the US government has lied to all of us to further its power, but when it comes to terms like Socialism and Communism, it accepts the governments line on these terms hook, line and sinker.
For a sub-reddit of free thinkers there is a surprising amount of people who think Socialism and Communism is all about government control when in reality Communism means no government and Socialism was founded on the idea of anti-authoritarianism. Not to mention there are many anti-government figures that share Marxist views. Noam Chomsky and Immortal Technique for instance.
What gives?
30 comments
4 CantStopWhitey 2014-12-20
Or take National Socialism. Many shout "fascism!", their brains shut down, and they begin to cry.
3 dieyoung 2014-12-20
Most people know something is wrong but have no principles to reference them with so they fall into the cradled arms of the state and post some bullshit Russell Brand said and think it's revolutionary.
Socialism is the opposite of freedom; it's government control of every aspect of life. If that seems remotely appealing to you, you may feel more at home in /r/Pyongyang.
1 daveywaveylol2 2014-12-20
I grew up in the most hardcore of republican households but we never took it this far...
Took me awhile before I realized that socialism is painted pretty negatively and for good reason. Many rich republicans need people to accept a person's right to riches, over a person's need to eat. Had to learn some history and moral clarity before I changed my view. Frank Zeidler is a place to start if you still think socialists are here to take your freedoms away.
0 dieyoung 2014-12-20
No thanks. Every time Socialism or Communism has been tried, it has lead to the deaths of millions through starvation and disease.
0 trinsic-paridiom 2014-12-20
Thats the same line I keep hearing. Its like a broken record, with no truth what so ever.
-1 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
Maybe the American definition of Socialism is but to people who know history is means worker control of the means of production
0 dieyoung 2014-12-20
People who know history? Like the people who lived under Lenin? Mao? The national socialist party under Hitler?
-1 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
The fact that they were a form of government means they weren't Communist. Communism means no government.
And the National Socialist party was not Socialist. They banned Trade Unions and executed Socialist and Communist demonstrators.
1 dieyoung 2014-12-20
Ok, then in a true communist society without a state, and presumably without private property, why would anyone create anything at all? In other words, why would a farmer try to raise grain if he can't claim his own work as his?
-2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
I'm not a communist. I'm a socialist.
In a socialist society the farmer would own the means of production so workers would actually make more money in socialism
3 dieyoung 2014-12-20
Wouldn't he be exploiting anyone that works for him?
0 aenemic 2014-12-20
if more people worked on the farm it would be a workers cooperative most likely in a socialist scenario, giving everyone a stake in the wellbeing of th farm and distributing the surplus in a democratic fashion.
2 craigdevlin 2014-12-20
As a concept, maybe. But in practice it's consistently been shown to be rather different...
0 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
There have been successful communist states and communities. Anarchist Catalonia and the French Commune were not totalitarian dictatorships.
0 JamesColesPardon 2014-12-20
Are those societies still around functioning properly?
3 trinsic-paridiom 2014-12-20
You need to remember these systems have been destroyed by Feudalism. The same system we use in America. Lots of ways to run a society have been destroyed by Feudalism. its not that they dont work, its that other dominate systems have over run humane ways of operating a society. People have this wrong, you need to take a good look at history.
0 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
There are some in Spain but the French Commune was destroyed by fascists
2 Ohhrubyy 2014-12-20
Have you seen mention of those two ideas, the government lies and communism/socialism is bad, in the same thread, written by the same person?
Conspiracy is full of free thinkers, we get all types of ideas and people. Hell, there are 1000 online as I type this, and there sure isn't only one ideology accepted on this sub. We attract all types of free thinkers and people with common ideologies will generally all post in the same place, giving the impression of that ideology being the common narrative on conspiracy but that is nothing close to the truth.
1 digdog303 2014-12-20
Conversations about class inequality, production and economic goals are woefully absent from this sub imo. I haven't seen much energy directed towards various marxisms either in favor of or against in this sub.
Anarcholibertarianism seems to be the trending flavor of modern self styled revolutionairres. I can't figure it out for the life of me. I think socialism is pretty freaking beautiful, it meshes fantastically with the ecovillage sorta response I favor.
3 hello_bluffdale 2014-12-20
"Anarcholibertarian" aka voluntarist here. For one, I am no revolutionary, and favor a gradual evolutionary shedding of the mantle of sociopathic mercantilist corporatocracy. I've also concluded -- and I'm far from being alone in this conclusion -- that all forms of initiation of aggression are wrong and bad for humanity in the long term.
Class inequality is an essential marker of the well-being of a society, and it's pretty clear that ours is not doing too well. There's may be value in bridging or at least discussing the new socialist / anarchocapitalist divide.
But this is /r/conspiracy, not /r/PoliticalPhilosophy. There's something to be said about TPTB subverting libertarian and socialist movements to their own ends, that would surely belong here. If you want to talk class politics, there's always /r/socialism ...
0 sudo-tleilaxu 2014-12-20
Are people downvoting this topic because they merely disagree, or do they just want to kill the discussion and make it go away?
I don't agree with the OP, but the discussion is still worth having, it appears, by the comments people are posting. Good stuff.
1 SovereignMan 2014-12-20
I'm sure it's because it's a post making a generalized, unsubstantiated attack against this sub as a whole.
1 sudo-tleilaxu 2014-12-20
Oh, I thought it was a strawman punching bag, a clay-pigeon of a post, kind of like posting practice or something..;-)
0 moparornocar 2014-12-20
conspiracy theorists take whatever information they can that fits in with their agenda/opinion.
thats my best guess.
0 trinsic-paridiom 2014-12-20
Pretty sad people don't understand history and condemn systems of society that they dont understand. It just shows how little people really still know about the world.
-1 [deleted] 2014-12-20
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-2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
Lol typo everything you ever said is invalid.
You're a moron
-1 jafbm 2014-12-20
Honestly I don't think this is a subreddit of "freethinkers" as you suggest. It's more than a quarter million people for sure, but most are lurkers that rarely contribute. The ones that do, myself included, are hardly free thinkers. We have our own agendas.
-1 [deleted] 2014-12-20
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2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
He's pretty anti-Israeli government
2 [deleted] 2014-12-20
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2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
Yes? And?
2 [deleted] 2014-12-20
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2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
I never said he wasn't a Zionist, I said he was anti-Israeli government.
1 SovereignMan 2014-12-20
I'm sure it's because it's a post making a generalized, unsubstantiated attack against this sub as a whole.
1 sudo-tleilaxu 2014-12-20
Oh, I thought it was a strawman punching bag, a clay-pigeon of a post, kind of like posting practice or something..;-)
2 ResidentDirtbag 2014-12-20
I never said he wasn't a Zionist, I said he was anti-Israeli government.