This has been attempted in the past, but it didn't catch on. What's hard with the 9/11 "Truth" movement is that the "official" story is also a conspiracy theory with a lot of information omitted from the public record, so that means the 100% honest-to-goodness truth isn't known by anyone.

There's no such thing as 100 percent truth. Truth varies according to perspective.

I like to kick people who say this in the balls. Now just change your perspective so it doesn't hurt.

If there is no objective fact, then nothing matters because nothing is real. You are advocating a form of nihilism.

If you go and ask the average person, they are going to tell you that the "truth" is that muslims were behind 9/11.

That is their truth. That is what they know.

So, please explain what makes your truth greater or more true than their truth?

What are you basing it on, numbers in agreement? She'll have you beat.

So what is the truth? What is real?

I'll tell you what's real. Whatever you believe is real. Same goes for everyone else. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. But there is no such thing as an objective reality.

Once you understand this, you can change your reality into whatever you wish it to be.

There is only one truth. That is, we are all one.

93

I'll tell you what's real. Whatever you believe is real. Same goes for everyone else. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. But there is no such thing as an objective reality.

This is absurd, and very harmful to believe. If you believe there is no truth, you are open to believe any lie your enemies may tell you, in order to control your mind and manipulate you. Indeed, the very fact that you believe as you do indicates that you have already been controlled.

the very fact that you believe as you do indicates that you have already been controlled

no u

The fact that you don't understand the nature of reality shows that you have been brainwashed and programmed. You believe your power is very limited because you believe in the reality that has been sold to you by THEM.

Please prove that anything is real. I'll wait.

ProTip: You literally can't.

PK Dick nailed this one.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".

Certain things are open to interpretation, others are not. Gravity is always the same everywhere. Maybe people disagree about who destroyed the towers, but we all see that they were destroyed.

Gravity is always the same everywhere

It is? Could you describe "gravity"?

Can you tell me exactly what it is?

ProTip: You (along with mainstream science) literally can't.

There's no need to address the rest of the logical fallacies.

Saying something is "reality", doesn't it make it so. Believing it only makes it so for you.

See, this is why you need to be kicked in the balls. Then you can grimace before spouting more bullshit. Then I'll rinse my foot and repeat. Eventually, you'll either be forced to admit we live in an objective consensual reality where me kicking you in the balls is an inarguably painful reality, or you'll hemorrhage and bleed out through your urethra, leaving me in a slightly different reality where I'm still just as right.

And FYI, it doesn't follow that I'm engaging in a logical fallacy just because you only have arguments about semantics to fall back on. You're just being a pedant.

More logical fallacies.

Kicking me in the balls doesn't prove anything about an objective reality.

You're not very intelligent. I would recommend doing some actual research before posting your idiocy on the internet.

Please don't comment any more until you can prove an objective reality.

It was nice knowing you kiddo. (Not really though)

technically you are correct. however, i think most people would agree that there are themes that are found commonly in broad ranges on perspectives. these common threads are we were humans call "truth".

how do you know?

I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

--Ra

The opposite of a "truther" is a "liar".

I fuckin' dig it.

Glad to see you here. Big fan.

Definitely works. It takes quite a state of denial to not even question any aspect of the official account, especially when treating anyone who does as a 'heretic'.

Alternatively, if your opponent is intent on starting flame-wars instead of debate, respond to 'Truther' with 'Faither', as in; "Faithful to the dogma of 'official' narrative" -A person I respect uses this infrequently and it never fails to amuse.

It takes quite a state of denial to not even question any aspect of the official account,

It's weird man. Just about every person I know is openly distrusting of the government. Think they're lying and scheming in every way possible. But when it comes to things like 9/11 or other 'conspiracies' they won't budge on any part of the official story. That cognitive dissonance post that hit the front here the other day really holds true.

I think, with everyone, it's a galvanizing issue on so many levels. To categorize it:

• You were either personally effected by the events of that day, so you're flooded with emotions whenever it is discussed, which may affect your ability to even consider anything outside of the official story.

• You have what might resemble a religious faith in the 'scientific method', so of course anything proposed by the NIST will remain impeccable for eternity. To question any aspect of their findings is 'anti-science', and therefore discredits all other research within the 9/11 truth community since [insert sweeping generalization here].

• Through a systemic form of social engineering, you have been raised to fear being labelled a 'conspiracy theorist' and hate anyone you decide is one. You essentially have come to ostracize anyone who questions authority while unknowingly defending it yourself.

• Then there's the people who aren't afraid to discuss any aspect of 9/11. None of the above applies because you've gotten passed the threshold of wondering whether the 'Government' is capable of things like 9/11. Whether you think they did it, let it happen or just aren't sure doesn't matter, you just recognize that there is less to trust them about and more to criticize them for and that people doing the latter aren't the problem.

There are variations of these but this is how I can best approximate the situation.

That cognitive dissonance post that hit the front here the other day really holds true.

Fuckin' A it does.

Solid points, pretty much sums it up. I live in the upper midwest so the first 2 don't exactly apply to the people I was referring to. People were indirectly affected here, and religiously scientific people are few and far between around here but that antiquestion mentality still exists. The last 2 are more prevalent in my experience.

Thanks. There are definitely factors I'm leaving out and location is certainly one of them, especially outside of America I imagine. Since I'm in South Ont. I'm not too far from NY, so I know some people that were directly effected, surprisingly a few of them do not believe in the official account.

As for #2, I really only know one 'science acolyte' personally. You are correct though, it's more likely you'll encounter more like them online.

Yeah I wasn't saying the first 2 are wrong, and I have met people they describe. I just don't see them often around here. #2 still works without the science acolyte. Could be religious faith in media, faith in official reports, or just in ruling opinion.

Oh I got you, you just reminded me that location as well as social circles are very much a factor and should be taken into account.

Could be religious faith in media, faith in official reports, or just in ruling opinion.

Brilliant.

There is absolutely nothing "scientific" about the NIST report.

Anyone who really understands basic Newtonian mechanics can't avoid the conclusion that all 3 collapses were controlled demolitions.

I don't necessarily disagree. Just try telling that to your average mainstream opinion peddler.

I dig this even more. I try and use 'critical thinker,' but that's not sexy.

What does sexy have to with questioning perceived truth? The strange thing about society at large is that we wish to have things labeled in simplistic dramatic polarized terms. So one to three words max draws attention. Anything over that three words looses interest IMO. If I was to label myself it would be something along the lines of- skeptical altruistic seeking deeper truth through observation, life practice, willing to see all sides of a narrative, shifting paradigms, and believing in all beliefs. Most folks lost interest after skeptical altruistic. OP has a good point in that labels can often create an opposing reaction. Skepticism/skeptic and denier have powerful meanings. These labels in the base form often bring opposing reactions and views, similar to conspiracy theorist.

Great points.

As far as the sexy comment goes, I was just having fun. I'll gladly wear whatever label people grow throw at me - as long as it means I require more evidence than 'senior US officials,' when reading an important news story.

"I'll gladly wear whatever label people grow at me "'- sounds like something I'd say. I understood your meaning all the same. I just feel like the whole sexy, consumable marketing, polarized dichotomy is taking over society.

I feel you man, I really do - but at some point you gotta realize that to have any effect in this information war (and make no mistake, there is a reason AJ coined the term), which we are in, you gotta take a step back and consider how to effectively get your message bout there. The truth is the greatest weapon, yes sir but the delivery (unfortunately) is almost equally as important to the proles these days.

How do I address your comment efficiently without coming off as egotistical? James I have been questioning the narrative and the supposed definition of the information wars for well over 30 years now. How do I get my message out there? I do what I believe. I believe sustainability in the self and the community is key. I assist others physically not just on the internet in achieving this. Sure I will mail out heirloom seeds and assist in gardening online. I also give away hundreds of pounds of organic fruit, vegetable starts, and produce weekly, plant over 300 seeds a month for my farmers market, and volunteer in many ways. But its the lessons from elders that inspires the most. I am here to break the chains of the past. They teach me in a lot of ways just how not to repeat the mistakes. Going deeper is parenthood. This is my main mission. Having children shifts you in ways unimaginable to those without. Those children born to us that depend on us are looking for new ways to live freely.

Moonpur, call me Jim, please.

And your comment about children is spot-fucking-on. Total game changer. A big part of me seeing things differently.

You say to yourself - sure - shit isn't okay but it's good enough, but then when you see what we're trending towards I don't know how I'll answer to my little one what I did to try and stop things, and why we all sat idly by.

Your contributions regarding self I sustainability are also right on - and more power to ya for affecting real people.

That's my goal for this year - and all other years to follow.

/cheers and I hope we can share many more positive stories throughout the rest of this forum's lifespan.

Long days & and certainly pleasant nights,

-Jim.

Almostly equally as important to the proles? smh Hopeful or navie, maybe a mix of both.

Presentation (aka, delivery) is everything.

Always has been. Always will be.

The only hope for the future lies with the proles.

Orwell (obviously)

'Critical thinker', while direct and to the point, has achieved a point of 'critical mass'. If you use it, you're opponent will surely have a meltdown. ;)

Only reserve it for when the audience is best prepared.

I called them "Faithers", because it is more of a religion to them. That, and facts be damned!

What's wrong with simply calling them "Liars"?

[deleted]

I'm in.

how do you know?

Oh I got you, you just reminded me that location as well as social circles are very much a factor and should be taken into account.

Could be religious faith in media, faith in official reports, or just in ruling opinion.

Brilliant.

technically you are correct. however, i think most people would agree that there are themes that are found commonly in broad ranges on perspectives. these common threads are we were humans call "truth".

I like to kick people who say this in the balls. Now just change your perspective so it doesn't hurt.

If there is no objective fact, then nothing matters because nothing is real. You are advocating a form of nihilism.

I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

--Ra