Carl Sagan's first wife. - Lynn Margulis

Carl Sagan's Son. - Jeremy

Great book. He also explains how homo sapiens are predators who hunted and drove neanderthals extinct, while also raping and procreating with them.

But your quote sounds a bit dubious. can you cite a page?

Definitely predators with tiny weak teeth

Predators who can't survive without vegetables or fruits

We may be predators in behavior but anyone with half a brain stem can see that humans aren't physically built to eat other animals. I love when people point to our teeny tiny canines as if that somehow proves we are omnivores. Rabbits have bigger, stronger canines than we do... lol. Rabbits.

You're arguing that homo sapiens sapiens didn't eat meat when we evolved as a species?

carrion.

which is why sweet and sour is a very popular condiment, ie ketchup and all the other relishes and sauces.

they mimic rotten meat.

In a survival situation we can. However if you think it's natural to get sick and diabetic and fat from consumption of meat then I don't know what to say to you.

People get sick and diabetic from consuming too much processed sugar and carbs, not meat. This has pretty much been proven as fact. Meat and protein has been part of our diet for hundreds of thousands of years.

Animal protein is just as insulinogenic as pure sugar...

I usually ignore posts like this but the "anyone with half a brain stem can see..." comment is just too much.

There can be absolutely no doubt that humans are physically built to eat other animals. Do you know how I know? Because I can live off it.

I actually get sustenance from it. I can live for a very long time eating ONLY meat.

This means that I'm "built" for eating other animals. I can and it works.

EDIT: and we are not talking about "survival situations".

We have evolved while eating both, just like other Apes. Our eyes and bodies are perfect for hunting. Great color vision with eyes, our bodies are energy efficient and durable. We are the best hunters/predators on the planet.

Then why does meat consumption make us sick and die prematurely?

Meat is a vital source of protein for humans. Too much of anything is harmful. Our brains developed the way they did because we started cooking meat and made it easier to digest. Cooking meat lead to growing food and we need both. People can survive without eating meat but our species would not have developed this way if we didn't eat meat. We are animals and we are omnivores.

All fruits and vegetables have ample protein and actually have nutrients, which meat lacks. Just stop pushing this bullshit that bought-and-paid for researchers have made up for the meat and dairy industries. You can eat the crap all you want but please, don't tell me, a person who hasn't eaten meat or dairy or animal products in I've forgotten how long that I'm an omnivore. I'm healthier, more fit, and leaner than any "omnivore" I know. If I was an omnivore I'd be dead, period. If we can survive indefinitely without eating anything but fruits and vegetables then, by definition, we are not omnivores.

I haven't eaten vegetables or fruit in years. I only eat meat, nothing else. I am 100% carnivorous. I'm healthier, more fir, and leaner than any "herbivore" I know.

See? I can say unsubstantiated things too!

what about pizza and other combination foods.

I'm not pushing anything, you need to calm down. I mentioned how we are natural predators and we have eaten meat our entire existence. I never said it was better than fruits or vegetables. A healthy, balanced diet can and IMO should have both or you can can be a vegetarian or vegan. It's a choice. Early Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens didn't have much of a choice and they ate meat. We evolved from them and so meat is and has been vital to our development. Feeding people is hard, especially when we multiply to over 7 billion individuals. Not everyone has the luxury of having so many choices of what to eat.

Here is some of the bs research you were talking about I guess. Might as well push it now. 1 2 3

We eat meat as a species.The fact that a person can live without eating meat doesn't change the fact that meat developed our ancestors bodies and brains into what we are now. It aided our evolution.

make us sick and die prematurely?

eating too many calories, not enough exercise.

a lot of people are gluttons and lazy, thats a bad combination.

I think being a predatory socially is a sign of societal sickness and an unhealthy relationship with the Self and Nature. But, yes it is hilarious listening to Hyper-Macho guys talking about how we were born to eat meat and hunt.

I bet they would have a lot of fun eating meat before fire was discovered

I don't eat a lot of meat, but when I do it is humanely raised on small farms. Much of the mass produced meat today is full of hormones and glyphosate from the GMO grain and soy the animals consume. I notice a lot of the macho meat eaters have symptoms of PMS 9 out of 10 times.

And don't forget how horribly the animals in factory farms are treated. Who knows what the constant fear and abuse is doing to the meat people consume.

Absolutely correct. The amount of stress hormones released among other physiologic disturbances are nearly never accounted for.

What do you mean by PMS? Yes, the meat suppy is polluted with toxins and horrible anti-biotics. Its a shame that the science community has bought into the big-agro propaganda.

I mean that the hormones in the food are increasing, and have been for a while, with the amount of estrogens men and women alike consume, at an all time high.

http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects#

I see, the only solution is to eat as little meat as possible and begin growing your own foods.

I agree. Even raising animals such as goats and chickens can provide quality proteins through their eggs and milk. Goats are also great at eating unwanted vegetation. I'd love to homestead but can't convince the wife. Likes her Facebook too much.

Start small, a backyard garden is a great way of beginning liberation from the food supply. I live in a very liberal state that also happens to have a large farming community and i try my best to drive out to the markets out in the valley and over the mountain passes. The first step is always deciding that we are done participating in our own illness.

That's awesome. Making the effort is the first part. Only way to send a message to these mega corps is to stop consuming their products and demand clean food.

variety, thats the secret to a good diet, that and exercise.

Right, when I say "we" I really just mean the meat-eaters of my country. The majority of humans aren't, I always forget that.

"We evolved to run... and chase down super-fast animals so we could exhaust them and then eat them! Totally!"

"Wouldn't it make more sense that we evolved to run away from pred..."

"NO we chase them and then EAT THEM" says this while sitting on their fat ass eating a hamburger

Exactly, i point to Bonobos with their "make love not war" social politics when people try to pull social darwinism drivel out of their asses. Humans are mostly meant to eat fruits and vegetables, we're social, polyamorous creatures. Its patently obvious and yet here we are.

It's been designed this way. This will sound like nonsense most likely but EVERYTHING, from the mindset that it's natural to be eating meat and abusing animals to the mindset that children are playtoys to be raped is related. Fear lends power from the fearful to the feared.

From a book I am writing: "The reason that people feel discomfort when presented with information to their belief's contrary, is because they feel an emotional attachment to those beliefs as they give comfort of mind. Ultimately, this is completely illogical. The temporary comfort that may come with a soft view of reality will eventually give way to pain and sadness. As a cigarette smoker who refuses to quit will die of lung cancer, and a drunk driver who refuses to see reason will die or sit in prison, a society that condones and encourages violence will die of war and infighting. Those refusing to observe the true nature of their reality will continue the cycle of death and sadness. "

eating meat and abusing animals

ancient humans ate carrion, that how meat eating arose.

finding half sun baked dead things, tasted good, so why not make some new dead things, then cooking got popular.

I don't get the connection you are making.

What is it to be a predatory socially? Do you mean predatory society, and if that's the case... what does that mean?

Ladder climbing in the corporate world, using the opposite sex for pleasure and social status, making friends with people specifically for their social and business connections, hanging out with awful people just to get things from them, using your employees to fulfill your short comings as a business owner, being a tyrant in the work place, indoctrinating/bullying your kids and spouse, being any kind of police officer, being in a frat and hazing junior members and non-members, being "popular" in highschool and picking on the kids who aren't, any type of socialized bullying, discriminating against people for their sexual orientation or ethnicity, xenophobia, being abusive to migrant workers becuase you know they can't defend themselves, being abusive to poor people who are servicing you in a business because you know they can easily get fired, pressuring men/women into giving you sexual favors because you are in a more powerful social position and think you can get away with it, scamming people, selling toxic products to people etc)

Here's the source. It doesn't appear to be an exact quote but the gist is there:

https://books.google.com/books?id=BQxZsou-RdwC&lpg=PA190&ots=xtM02fdJaU&dq=Detecting%20conspiracies%20when%20there%20are%20no%20conspiracies%20is%20a%20symptom%20of%20paranoia%3B%20detecting%20them%20when%20they%20exist%20is%20a%20sign%20of%20mental%20health%20Carl%20Sagan&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q=Detecting%20conspiracies%20when%20there%20are%20no%20conspiracies%20is%20a%20symptom%20of%20paranoia;%20detecting%20them%20when%20they%20exist%20is%20a%20sign%20of%20mental%20health%20Carl%20Sagan&f=false

The irony is that Sagan was the heir apparent to PTB-employed resident ET debunker J. Allen Hynek. Difference between Hynek and Sagan, however, was that while Hynek eventually woke tf up and realized that there was in fact ample evidence indicating that the planet Earth is being visited by ETs - causing Hynek to subsequently become one of the most ardent ET proponents - Sagan remained a PTB debunker shill, employed to poo poo on any idea that ETs are on and around this planet and solar system, and went to his deathbed continuing to sing the song of his masters.

Ample evidence? Anything physical in nature?

Let's put it this way: J. Allen Hynek was - of his own admittance - in the employ of higher ups in the government and other secret organizations specifically tasked with downplaying and negating the importance of all the evidence that did indeed exist and pointed toward there being ET contact on this planet and in this solar system. He went on record stating that his job was to make sure and use a marginalizing modus operandi to discount data that he later publicly acknowledged did actually exist and constitute significant evidence on behalf of this planet being visited by ETs and ET craft.

Carl Sagan's m.o. fits the same profile Hynek had of being 1) a well-respected scientific figure that the public trusted and believed, and he also happened to 2) use pretty much the same, flowery, long-winded, very "scientific sounding" language that Hynek did to discredit the existence of ETs and ET craft on and around this planet.

At the end of the day, if it quacks, walks, and shits like a duck, then...

Read "the demon haunted world" by carl sagan in which he describes everything he's done in the search for ET's both for the government and without and how badly he wishes they existed.

I've read literally every single book that Carl Sagan ever published. That's why I say what I say with the confidence that I do. In DHW, he goes to great lengths to establish his own credibility and, as you stated, purport to "reeeeaaally wish they existed", and then he summarily turns around and blissfully ignores the evidence that existed even during the time that he published that work - to say nothing of what came out in the decades after its publishing while he was still alive.

It's a tough one for me because I respect him whole heartedly but I also totally believe in et's on earth.

I'm personally pretty damn pissed at him, because I really liked me some Carl Sagan. You don't dedicate a year of your life pouring over an anthology of every book he published without having a great deal of respect and admiration for him. That's why I was so utterly pissed when I started really understanding the extent to which he - a supposedly "objective, critically thinking scientist" - was out and out ignoring valid data and spending his life poo-pooing relevant data on the subject. Then I researched Hynek and the m.o. he was employed to act out in being the "resident debunker"...and I realized that he and Carl Sagan were following the exact same script.

People who push the ET/alien thing are full of it.

There's a reason that movement was spearheaded by the likes of Laurence Rockefeller.

People who push the ET/alien thing are full of it.

This is an extremely limiting blanket statement that has been proven patently absurd by all the evidence existing definitively proving that ETs have visited this planet and are in this solar system.

There's a reason that movement was spearheaded by the likes of Laurence Rockefeller.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. "Spearheaded" implies that someone was responsible for influencing the inception of a phenomenon. The topic has been around and documented LOOONG before any Rockefeller even existed. This is bigger and far beyond any Rockefeller person regardless of whether they've put money into it in an attempt to create any disinfo about the topic one way or the other.

His work on The Dragon in my Garage is equally relevant, in particular relation to the flavor of conspiracies whose proponents refuse to provide any alternative theory which can be tested in the same way as the official story, e.g. Sandy Hoax.

If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless

Well Carl I guess you found out the truth now in the after life? Wait...,or is there an after life, or is it all a joke on us as a matrix? Is the universe just one big conspiracy on all of us?

Oops I guess I'm paranoid Carl sorry :P

I'm too stupid to understand this

Basically people who suffer from paranoid delusions are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories because they think the world is out to get them. Their frame of reference is off, so they start looking for conspiracies to explain everything, even when there is nothing to explain. Anyone who tries to discredit it is "obviously" a shill in on it trying to cover up the conspiracy, which only reinforces their paranoia and isolation.

The second half of the quote is in a similar vein as the first, but dealing with the opposite effect. Someone who is in a healthy psychological state and thinking rationally might see some really shady shit going down and think maybe something is wrong. Someone who is not will look at events that seem really suspicious and think nothing of it.

Yeah, I think what the quote is saying is that a healthy balance is a sign of good health.

There must be a balance between seeing a government conspiracy because there is evidence and believing in a conspiracy because you assume it was. Like I think 9/11 was a government led conspiracy but I don't believe in the moon landing hoax or holocaust denial

I think some people in this sub automatically assume that anyone who opposes them is a shill, they take a bit of truth and expand it to fit everyone, when in reality most people are probably just normal people on the internet with opinions.

There must be a balance between seeing a government conspiracy because there is evidence and believing in a conspiracy because you assume it was.

Exactly.

I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. But I do think that the Bush administration exploited the fuck out of the tragedy to push through the Patriot Act and either lied or deliberately misled the public into the Iraq War. I guess that technically qualifies as a conspiracy if they talked about coordinating what they said to mislead people.

?? Detecting them when they exist (like now;all over the place), is a sign of mental health.

Read: a healthy mind.

And really to be fair, all of history is nothing but conspiracies. We're just more immersed in (and outraged by) the conspiraces taking place in our lifetime.

His, story. Repeat the words after me: BULL. SHIT.

It's all just fake lies. The truth is coming to light now because the (true, 0.00001%) elite don't care anymore... what are we going to do about it? They're just going to kill us all anyway.

Guys I don't think he gets it.

Because there is no need to perceive a colourful world in a black and white filter, its simply dumbification.

For a conspiracy to exist, it must take place in a way to affect others. Its mental health to look into conpiracies that already happened/did damage. On the other detecting bad things before they happen, attempting to foresee or prevent such things, is paranoia for you.

In other words, need not worry about the present or the future, just sit back and watch it unfold. You'll probably read about it in a paper someday, when you're old and powerless.

"Stop being so paranoid man, you didn't need to make a shelter. Its never going to rain, ever." * Rains *

It's a dumb apologist statement. It shuts down a part of your brain. You're not dumb for not following.

for all Sagans good points, the dude was also a bit of a twat.

And high intelligence, I might add.

And really to be fair, all of history is nothing but conspiracies. We're just more immersed in (and outraged by) the conspiraces taking place in our lifetime.