Final Thoughts after visiting JFK's assassination location.

15  2015-10-07 by ReasonablyConfused

The thing that struck me about Dealey Plaza was the rather small overall size of the place, and the steep angles of everything. The angle from the 6th floor to the street, the angle of the road itself, were all steeper and closer than I envisioned. This is a common bias in film and television, to not capture depth and angles properly.

For me, if you took the image that I had in mind and cut the distance in half, and doubled the steepness of the angles you would be pretty close to how it looked to me in person.

I went to the site three times, the last of which was for a long time with my phone for reference. I watched the Zapruder film, looked at autopsy photos, photos of the scene that day, etc.

The plaza has changed very little. From the buildings to the monuments, even the fence that is so often speculated about in the "Grassy Knoll" has been rebuilt over and over again to nearly the same specs as the original. This made me feel that I could have been standing there just a few days after the horrific event. Save for the few additional pieces specifically placed in remembrance to both JFK and the assassination. There are also two X's in the street marking the approximate location of JFK when he was struck. These have been removed by the city many times, but are always quickly restored.

My conclusions are as follows:

*The sixth floor window is the most advantageous firing position available in that plaza for the placement of the shots that were fired.

*From that position, with that rifle and scope, many marksmen with similar experience to Lee Harvey Oswald could have killed the President. (For what it's worth, I feel that I could have replicated the shots, given a similar time as L.H.O. to familiarize myself with that rifle/scope combination. I was my states Jr Olympic Rifle Champion in 10 Meter Running Target many years ago.)

*I do not believe that any shots were taken from the "Grassy Knoll". I base that conclusion on the observation of how close it is to to onlookers, including Mr. Zapruder. It is approximately 75 feet, just 25 paces, from where that famous film is taken. I believe if Mr. had heard a shot taken from that range he would have, at the very least, flinched obviously. An unexpected shot, at that range would have had me hitting the deck, and would have left my right ear ringing. There would be no speculation about the possibility of the shot coming from that direction. A number of people would have been more likely to report temporary hearing loss, and to underestimate the range of the shot.

*There is no possibility for a shot to have come from the storm drain approximately 75 feet from the fatal impact point, on the right side of the road. It may appear so on film, but the angles are too small to be possible. From inside that drain you could not even see the President for the first shot, and just barely with your right eye only for the second. It would not be possible to present a rifle from this position. The rifle would need to be fully extended, by itself, out of the drain, with no possibility of aiming. I rule this out.

*To my eye the fatal shot occurred from behind forcing the President's head to snap forward and then back. The pieces flying backward are a natural part of an event like this. The frame-rate of the Zapruder film is so slow as to make this hard to see, but I feel I see it none-the-less. His head was already very forward due to the first wound and his back brace would make this "snap back" response all the more likely.

All this being said I still find a great many problems with the Single Shooter/Two Bullet (One miss) theories. My problems are as follows:

*Governor Connally reported being startled by the sound of the first shot and quickly turning to his right to check on the President (all visible in the film), and THEN being shot in the back/arm/thigh. A position he/his wife refused to budge on all of his remaining days. I am open to the possibility that he didn't know he was shot, but rather felt his broken ribs when he turned.

*The bullet found on a stretcher near the Governor could not have inflicted all of the damage that it did and remained in that condition. If fact, I find the presence of such an intact bullet that matches L.H.O.'s rifle way too convenient.

*The lack of gunshot residue on L.H.O.'s cheek (but existence on his hands) and the presence of other chemicals on his face leads me to believe that he likely didn't fire aimed shots that day, nor washed his face to cover up that fact. He may have earlier fired his rifle "from the hip", say into water (potentially producing that intact bullet), but not a shot aimed in a way that could have killed the President.

*Jack Ruby behaved as a person would who was sent to kill L.H.O. shortly after the assassination. He attempted at least three times and succeeded. His connections to organized crime seem highly likely.

*If Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole mastermind behind this I find his testimony odd. I would expect him to take full credit and enjoy the platform from which to promote his political beliefs. Instead he constantly claimed to be a "patsy", and he makes a rather perfect one. His defection, Russian wife, political views, etc. He feels like someone who was at the edge of this plot, and surprised to find himself betrayed. His insistence on only being represented by the Communist Party USA, one John Abt, seems like a person who trusts no US persons anymore.

My best guess as to what happened:

*Lee Harvey Oswald brought a 6.5x52mm Carcano Rifle to work with him.

*One or more shooters began firing at the President from on or near the 6th floor of the Public Records Building when he was approximately 175 ft from the building.

*Two rounds struck the President from above and behind, one struck the Governor from the same/near firing position.

*The governor was not intentionally shot. All shots were fired with the sole intention of killing the President.

*Evidence was planted at the hospital where the Governor was treated.

*Evidence was likely removed from various scenes.

*Both the President and the Governor were likely shot at ONLY from the Records Building, by rifle/s with ballistic properties of the 6.5x52mm round. This is a small, long projectile that is very unstable after impact. This kind of bullet, fired from this direction, produced the fatal impact.

*Lee Harvey Oswald likely didn't take part in the final killing of the President.

*After there was enough evidence removed/planted, and the capture of Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby was instructed to assassinate Lee Harvey Oswald.

For the record this was not the conclusion that I expected to come to. When I first saw the plaza I thought that one person could have done this, that I could have done this. I am still open to the possibility of their being only one shooter, but I believe that there was a conspiracy.

This is where the evidence had led me.

I am not certain of my conclusions, but unless I review further evidence to the contrary, I find this scenario the most plausible.

37 comments

a couple things re: grassy knoll and mr z

silencers existed even then and imo z may have been in on it there to "document the event" he was a 32nd degree freemason

ps jack ruby real name = jacob rubenstein

whoa whoa wait, z was a mason? holy fuck.

Calm down. They seem like nice people.

The type of round required to produce the wound would be a very light frangible round fired at a VERY high velocity. These are impossible to effectively silence. Their supersonic crack is very loud even if some of the discharge is silenced. The impact response does not fit this kind of sideways shot (Approx 65 deg, by my eye), and the shot is a very hard one.

I find the Zapruder film a real problem for any assassins, not a help.

rubbish

subsonic ammo google it

z film wasnt released for what.... 20years and even then in edited form

I think your conclusion probably comes quite close to the truth. Personally, I think Lee Harvey Oswald was a total patsy - he didn't shoot Kennedy, and it may not even have been him that brought the rifle to work - perhaps one of the conspirators broke into Oswald's home and took it to the Book Depository.

Like most patsies, Oswald was not meant to survive long enough to be arrested, and the conspirators had a big problem when he was. They must have had some serious leverage on Jack Rubinstein to get him to finish the job in front of the police.

I don't think we'll never know who the real shooter or shooters were, but there was definitely a conspiracy, and it's hard to see how LBJ wasn't part of it.

I have only seen the area in pictures, two questions. ...
If you drew a line from the impact marks to the "Oswald window " would there be any buildings behind him? If he was a patsy then it makes sense that the real shooter would be in a position that made it look like Oswald did it. I am guessing higher up on a building to Oswalds left.
How clear would the shot have been for Oswald if he had fired before the car turned into the plaza? I spoke to a military man who said his choice of shot would have been before the turn, head on and the car had nowhere to go but closer.

Yes there are other buildings that make this possible.

With a semi automatic rifle the shot on approach is easier from a military "killing zone" perspective. But everyone would see you and the target is moving more in your field of vision.

From a sniper point of view the shot going away is more stable (No lead required), and everyone is now facing away. A better shot.

The guy I spoke to said different. He said the forward facing shot was a better choice. Maybe I should ask in r/military, not sure if they discuss topics like this in there.

Biggest issue I still have is the head shot on JFK isn't consistent with what a heavy 6.5mm carcano round does on impact. The coroner's report said the dug a hundred tiny fragments out of JFK's skull. So we're supposed to believe that one bullet punched through two people multiple times and remained totally intact while the same bullet fragmented into a hundred pieces on impact?

I agree that the behavior of the bullet on impact with the President's head is very different with the supposed behavior of the bullet that hit the Governor. I believe that the second "perfect" bullet is planted.

thats why the 'Magic bullet' was called so, by ballistic experts way back in the day, they did not believe it.

the same or similar model of lend/lease revolver that LHO allegedly shot Tippet with, was found in a trash can just off Dealey Plaza.

IMO (which I'm sure someone will challenge me on) it was Oswald acting alone. However for me the #2 theory is the secret service dude accidentally discharging his weapon in a moment of panic.

If he did it and was acting alone why do you think he claimed to be a patsy?

The same reason murders claim to be innocent right up until they die. I imagine even The faintest glimmer of hope can go a long way in getting by in prison.

I remain open to this. The gunshot residue on his hands but not his face are a problem for me. As is the "perfect" bullet found in the hospital.

My main issue would be the fact that several witness' claimed to smell gun powder in the air at street level, one was a cop I believe and would have been very accustomed to the smell. This would have been impossible had the shots come from 6 stories up. The only way to reconcile this with Oswald being the only shooter is to say that during the panic their minds just kinda made it up. This is also why I said my #2 theory is the accident by secret service. Also if I remember right there is a doc that addresses the pristine bullet. A ballistics expert concluded that to the layman the bullet does appear in great shape, but a professional eye can tell that it had not only been fired, but had infact passed through a human. No link sorry. It's been forever and it's possible I am not remembering that last bit totally correctly.

My understanding is that it would need to pass through 15 layers of clothing, 15 inches of human, at least one rib, a radius bone, and remove a cuff link. I do not believe that bullet did that.

The only thing of any consequence to a piping hot bullet of that velocity would be the bone, the rest wouldn't even factor in. The bullet did not fragment this is true, the reason people think it's so pristine is because the image we are use to seeing is a "profile" of the bullet which does infact look in great condition. If you get a chance look up the top down view of the bullet and you can instantly see that it is infact imploded and mishapen on the top. Google image search should help you find it. If not I'll post a link when I'm home and have access to my bookmarks and I'm not on mobile.

He shot a police officer later that day, would that be consistent with the residue results?

I believe that it would. Still excluding him from firing a high power rifle, aimed, earlier that day.

I don't think he acted alone.

I know, neither do I. In fact I dont think he was the shooter and was, as he claimed, a patsy. I think he was part of it and was told to be at the window so it would look like him. I was asking the Rezingreenbowl.

I don't think he acted alone.

If you think, as I have come to, that the Governor was hit very shortly after the 2nd shot to the President, it becomes hard to imagine there being only one shooter, or that the rifle used was the Carcano found.

I've seen recreations on the history channel and such pull off the 3 shots in the time given and get their hits in.

If we think that there were only two hits, is there somewhere that the 3rd bullet was found?

No,not that im aware of, but it's not unreasonable to assume that it was just never found. I'll concede it would be unlikely with the way the scene was searched, but unlikely does not nessasarily equal impossible.

I highly recommend watching (at least) the first episode of Evidence for Revision. Just a heads up, the first episode consists in large part of raw footage with little, if any, explanation or narration. You really have to pay attention and let the original footage speak for itself.

When I was in high-school, I had to do a group project on JFK for my Modern History class. Part of that involved accessing original and microfische newspapers at the State Library of NSW. I went looking for the New Zealand article mentioned in Oliver Stone's film (which we had seen the same day as part of the same excursion). I didn't find that article, but I did find one that talked about multiple rifles being taken from the scene. I'd never heard of these other rifles before or since, until I watched Evidence for Revision, which spends quite a bit of time on a Mauser rifle found in the "sniper's nest" alongside the Carcano.

I sincerely apologize if this sounds insensitive or silly, but could they not have easily taken him out using invisible laser technology of a variety of other planted death weapons? I always thought the debate about the angle of the shots fired was sort of a distraction from the larger issue at hand which is corruption.

This is the same mechanism they are using on 9-11. Steel beams melting points and such. When its obvious every rich person, Jewish person wasn't around that day and every person of air forces responsibility stepped aside that morning. That stuff is the real proof of complicity. They want thirty years of jet fuel melting steel beams to be the next magic bullet

The challenge is not in killing the President. Many States today could do this, and it was particularly easy before JFK's assassination. The real craft is in getting away with it.

If you find evidence of a conspiracy here it will most likely not be obvious. Someone will have tried to think like you do, before you think about it, and provide more plausible solutions.

Using weapons only available to a few actors would be a problem from the start.

I disagree that there is a challenge in getting away with it. If the President is killed, it has been gotten away with. Anyone held responsible is expendable.

If a nation is held responsible, that would be bad for that nation.

If the next president was found responsible, that would be complicated.

Murder is bad for the nation and is complicated no matter who is responsible. It doesn't matter which nation it is or who the particular president is. What matters is that we figure out how to make the world a better place.