These guys aren't supposed to be operating on US soil. They've found a loophole by working with local law enforcement, but this is something that needs to be addressed. There's not enough transparency or accountability in that agency to allow them to be working like this. Leave that to the FBI and then reign in the FBI to be accountable to American citizens.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/nyregion/cia-examining-legality-of-its-work-with-new-york-police.html?_r=0

But people go to prison for life for weed posession. Fuck this god damn country.

Only reason Emily Blunt's character existed in Sicario.

Looks like a false flag which got cancelled. If they hadn't demolished WTC7 we'd be told some excuse as to why it was wired up with explosives

Got cancelled by maintenance

To play devil's advocate if it was the CIA's police they are Federal Police. They go to the academy in Georgia and do have arrest powers.

Came here just to say this

This.

They wouldn't train with any material that would be capable of detonating. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want their dogs or themselves to blow up. My guess is that they offered the dog training to local law enforcement and they needed places to hide scented material for the exercise and the local department arranged the locations. They definitely should account for all of the materials they are using in order to avoid panicking anyone so that part of it is sloppy work on their part. As far as the legality of it, it doesn't look like any type of intelligence gathering so I would guess that it's allowed.

I suspect that youre correct in that the materials probably weren't posing an actual threat, but that's not the underlying issue here.

For one this, the mandate of the CIA is to conduct foreign intelligence gathering- supposedly via Humint.

Of course, we know that they have been extended beyond this mandate and are heavily involved in espionage and even targeted assassination in order to conduct extrajudicial policy goals without direct accountability of government.

But the crossover to conducting operations on domestic soil is huge and one that has been addressed in the past.

This is a quote from Frank Church who investigated the CIA for wrongdoings in the 70's:

In the need to develop a capacity to know what potential enemies are doing, the United States government has perfected a technological capability that enables us to monitor the messages that go through the air. (...)

Now, that is necessary and important to the United States as we look abroad at enemies or potential enemies. We must know, at the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left such is the capability to monitor everything—telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology. (...)

I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.

So why is the CIA tasking themselves to work with local law enforcement, given what we know about their propensity to target policy and manipulate societies?

But even if it was local law enforcement acting alone in a drill like this, it puts civilians at risk by virtue of potentially putting civilians in the illegal possession of controlled substances. They have training facilities- keep that stuff out of public places.

Looking at it that way you're right, the problem being who was conducting the training, not the training itself. I definitely want bomb dogs to be capable of finding bombs.

I definitely want bomb dogs to be capable of finding bombs.

absolutely. at the same time, dogs are trained to give false alerts as legal justification for search. I think this is an additional worry given CIA involvement considering their predilection for effecting policy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/

If the CIA is training police on how to search for explosives, I want to know if they are also training them to use loopholes to justify warrantless search- and I'd suspect that they are.

The drug dog thing is a little different, the handler of a bomb dog kind of has a little skin in the game so to speak. They are going to want a dog that is accurate.

what I'm saying is that dogs are used as justification to enact warrantless vehicle search. Clearly we are talking about a scenario where they are training for vehicle searches.

Of COURSE they WANT dogs to be able to find illicit substances- that's not what we're talking about. I'm referring to the back-up for when they DON'T find the illicit substance- when the LEO signals for a false alert as pretense to search a vehicle.

If a police officer intuitively suspects that there is something hidden in a vehicle, but has no probable cause to effect a search, they are using the dogs as a loophole to do so.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/09/nj_supreme_court_expands_police_discretion_in_warr.html

Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-WMn_zHCVo

And clearly the threat of "terrorism" is being used to justify enhanced police powers that are not actually just about terrorism. So don't be so quick to differentiate between a k9 searching for drugs and one searching for explosives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/29/surprise-controversial-patriot-act-power-now-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/

I agree that they would do it with drugs. I would like to think they wouldn't plant explosives just for the sake of justifying an illegal search but then again Operation Fast and Furious was F'd up beyond my comprehension so I guess you're right.

I'm not suggesting that they are planting anything to justify illegal search. I'm saying that the CIA should not be training LEOs on american soil because they are known to skirt laws with their tactics.

If they are training local police on the use of canines (which I've pointed out can be used to justify warrantless search), might they also be working with local law enforcement agencies on enhanced interrogation techniques?

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-13-enhanced-interrogation-techniques-the-cia-used-on-detainees-2014-12

How about warrantless data collection and surveillance?

https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

you mean explosives planted by CIA for upcoming red flag terrorist attack found by mechanic before it was used.

Exactly what I was thinking. These fuckers were gonna kill a bunch of children to stir the public up against some made up threat. Fucking evil.

My immediate thought. It's actually really worrying that that's the first thing that came to my head.

you think if the CIA was going to put explosives on a school bus for a false flag they would involve local law enforcement? I think this is just incompetence. The CIA has the power and the means to kill a bunch of "fake" children and make the news report about it.

Was probably found due to negligence and needed a cover story that would appease the sheep in the local LE.

it could be but why would they use explosives that could be traced to them? if they wanted to come up with a false flag, they could spin this as a foiled terrorist attempt which would still cause fear.

Virginia

Why would they plant explosives without a detonator?

we don't know what all was found.

Should put them on the no-fly list.

It was a C4 type explosive. Very stable and safe without a detonator. The really concerning part is the CIA didn't even notice it was missing. The school bus maintenance people found it later.

If you put a block of C4 in a school bus, I'm pretty sure they'd call it a "bomb". Surely the Agency deserves the same courtesy.

This is the really disturbing part...who knew...."dude man...I thought you had that shit...." " eh bro, I thought you had this..." FUCK a damnhorse sized duck...

Very safe and stable sitting on an engine block, right. This was going to be a false flag attack

You can burn C4, hit it with a rock, even shoot it and it won't explode. http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/really-no-explosion/

Also they use simulant for K-9 taining, not real explosives. https://www.policeone.com/K-9/articles/6130381-K-9-detection-training-Using-simulants-pseudo-scents-and-real-odors/

c4 is surprisingly stable and quite hard to set off without a detonator.

cringe

You can light C4 on fire and it won't explode.

Could be nothing, but still worth remembering in case the terraceds blow up a school bus in the near future.

Here's another slightly more local source from the Washington Post.

This really brings to mind the Russian apartment bombings where the FSB (Russian CIA?) was caught placing "fake" explosives in the basement of an apartment building, AFTER multiple apartment buildings had been bombed already.

"It was just sugar"

Likely some sort of plastique explosive, RDX base with plasticizer. Incapable of being set off without a detonator, but still. God damn.

Don't some engines feature some sort of mini detonators to ignite? There are manifold of engines for school buses apparently, and we don't know the engine brand of the particular bus.

Anyway, damn.

High grade explosives will not detonate from heat, theyll deflagrate but they wont blow. A .50 cal round wont even set them off, you need a primary explosive otherwise known as a blasting cap to set them off. Something like an azide or peroxide based explosive. All of which are easy to synthesize, even high grade explosives are relatively easy if you got the right equipment. RDX being the easiest with chemicals available to any civilian. Peroxides require literally no effort to synth either. Combine the two and you have a military grade explosive that can take out armour or hardened positions. Its what the establishment fears, teks on how to properly implement shaped charges with these materials are also readily available. Given enough skill, combining the two with simple rocketry would produce a warhead capable of dropping a modern tank. The thinking and designing doesnt even need to be done. All those specs are already out there. Someone could create this shit in their spare time, and strapping these bombs to RC vehicles would provide a lucrative mode of attack. The problem is, most criminals are dumb. Will this land me on a list? I hope so. Armour isnt hard to defeat.

Are you talking about Spark and Glow plugs?

I'm not sure about that since I'm not into engines, only skimmed shortly over different engine layouts found and their descriptions.

So I'd say probably those, yeah.

Im not sure Either of those would cause the chain reaction in a block of C4. You basically need a tube filled with Gunpowder.

Yeah I found this^NSFW discussion about it just now. Guess tge bus woukd've had to hit another car up front after driving for a while or something to even remotely being able to set it off.

Still, If I was the guy to find it, I would have set it off my self in my back yard.

This is unbelievably fucked up, but there are some things on behind the scenes here. How did this story get out? How come the mainstream media is reporting it?

The CIA would kill any number of people to stop a story like this getting out - planting explosives on American school buses? It's either unfathomable incompetence or...worse. There is no need to plant real explosives in operational school buses for a K9 training exercise.

The story is to get you used to hearing these actions on US soils so it become common place

You guys don't understand, I've been around k9 during explosive training. It is not a brick of c4 or whatever explosive you want to say, all it is is a box with trace amounts of a explosive not enough to even remotely do anything. Just enough for a scent. I get false flags and everything but it's a mistake made in training. Do you really think if the Cia was going to do a flash flag with explosives they wouldn't just put it right out in the open...

[deleted]

we're aware that the daily mail is considered a tabloid- but we try to more throughly vet information from ANY source, around here. We're not taking CNN or the NYT at face value, either.

I just saw the same exact story on CNN, if that helps the credibility in your opinion.

The article clearly quotes Fox News within the first paragraph, which corroborates everything that the Daily Mail said.

Fox News and the Daily Mail are essentially the same entity. They are both extensions of Rupert Murdoch.

As a Virginia myself, I totally believe this. Our state is massevily corrupt. The judges and lawyers are all in bed with each other, the police are mad corrupt. All the way from Henrico/RVA to Norfolk. I really dont wanna live here much longer. I live not far from a CIA training base (Camp Perry), and next to them are a few major airforce bases/shipyards... Virginia has the most bases for military/special "division" on the whole East Coast, maybe in the whole USA. I heard of some corrupt stuff CIA/FBI been doing..... I am honestly not surprised the CIA did this... I totally see it happening.I have never heard of Loudon though, I believe its a "ruralish"/country area. Or else I woulda heard of it. No surprise... Local news paper has nothing on this story. I do have a local news reporter on my FB, should I send a link get her to write something to bring attention??? This shit should be big news.

Loudon County is a suburb. Source-Northern Virginian haha

You and I are touchy feely and this area has no soul.

'The exact nature of the training material used in this exercise is not being released at the request of the CIA so as not to compromise its training techniques'

It's a dildo. source: I watched an episode of Quantico.

And they are still working for CIA?

The Central Intelligence Agency that is supposedly one of the highest intelligence groups in America "forgot" explosives in the ENGINE of a school bus?

The school and the parents both should be overwhelming them with questions/emails/phone calls.

I considered the mentioned thought about a red flag operation but another possiblity that crossed my mind is that someone in the operation was corrupt and had sold the product. This was their means of transferring hands.

Even more curious is that the CIA confirmed that all of their product had been accounted for at the end of the training.

You put the quotes in the wrong place.

The title should read,

The CIA "accidentally" leaves explosive material on Virginia school bus engine...

explosives training material

explosive

Well, which one is it, OP?

The "material" wasn't explosive. It sounds like an honest accident.

Sounds like a false flag terror attack which got cancelled

Why would they do that; what would be the goal?

So many have been getting found out, these criminals are starting to get nervous

No, I mean why would tgese particular individuals leave it in a bus. My guess is that the good folks here in the sub believe it to be practice for a false flag or made up attack. If that were the case, then why would they do that? To get a cop on every bus? Inspection of busses daily? I don't see what the goal is; the end game is what? What's your take on their rationale?

Looking at it that way you're right, the problem being who was conducting the training, not the training itself. I definitely want bomb dogs to be capable of finding bombs.

Exactly what I was thinking. These fuckers were gonna kill a bunch of children to stir the public up against some made up threat. Fucking evil.

Very safe and stable sitting on an engine block, right. This was going to be a false flag attack

My immediate thought. It's actually really worrying that that's the first thing that came to my head.

If you put a block of C4 in a school bus, I'm pretty sure they'd call it a "bomb". Surely the Agency deserves the same courtesy.

I'm not sure about that since I'm not into engines, only skimmed shortly over different engine layouts found and their descriptions.

So I'd say probably those, yeah.

Virginia

This is the really disturbing part...who knew...."dude man...I thought you had that shit...." " eh bro, I thought you had this..." FUCK a damnhorse sized duck...

Why would they plant explosives without a detonator?

Should put them on the no-fly list.