Proof Bin Laden Died in 2001

930  2016-05-20 by birthdaysuit11

In light of Sy Hersh's claim that the raid on Osama bin Laden in 2011 is "one big lie," here's an overview of evidence in support of an alternative narrative: bin Laden died in December 2001 in Tora Bora from a lung complication as a result of kidney failure starting at least since mid-2000.


All sources are from the mainstream media, many of which have since been "scrubbed" from the internet.

2000 to September 2001: Reports Emerge of bin Laden Dying From Kidney Disease


In March 2000 the Chicago Tribune reports that an Afghan witness and "Western intelligence official" say bin Laden is suffering from severe kidney and liver failure. Link: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-03-25/news/0003250085_1_laden-bin-religious-militia


This story was also picked up by CBS News in 2000, who outright lead with the title that "Bin Laden Reported to be Dying" from "kidney disease."

Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20010212010328/http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,172666-412,00.shtml


In July 2001, the South Asia Analysis Group reports: "Bin Laden, who suffers from renal deficiency, has been periodically undergoing dialysis in a Peshawar military hospital with the knowledge and approval of the Inter-Services Intelligence, (ISI) if not of Gen.Pervez Musharraf himself." Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20011007021426/http://www.saag.org/papers3/paper266.html

September to November 2001: bin Laden is Trapped in Afghanistan, Unable to Receive Kidney Treatments


In September 2001, PBS' Frontline interviews the former general counsel for the CIA, mentioning reports from 1998 that the DEA found out Osama bin Laden was undergoing kidney dialysis with a doctor in Peshwar. They mention further that the DEA wanted to poison bin Laden through his dialysis machine, but the CIA allegedy rejected this due to the ban on assassinations.


Link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/terrorism/interviews/smith.html In November 2001, The Guardian is reporting that French intelligence officials say bin Laden was flown to Dubai for kidney treatment in July of 2001, where he also met with several CIA agents and the head of Saudi intelligence. This story is also picked up by several French newspapers. Link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism In his first interview since 9/11, in November 2001 bin Laden talks to a Pakistani newspaper and claims that his "kidneys are all right" and denies visiting a hospital in Dubai the previous year (note that he may have visited one in Pakistan). In the same interview he also asserts, clearly lying, that he has "nuclear weapons." Link: http://dawn.com/news/5647/osama-claims-he-has-nukes-if-us-uses-n-arms-it-will-get-same-response/2


December 2001: bin Laden is Dead, Buried in Afghanistan In December of 2001, the New York Times reports on "high-level murmurings that bin Laden is dead." Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/26/international/asia/26LADE.html That same day,citing a Taliban source, Fox News reports that bin Laden has died due to an "untreated lung complication" from kidney disease. About 30 "close associates" reportedly attended bin Laden's funeral in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan. A source concludes that the U.S. government and other forces are in a "mad search operation" but will never be able to locate the now-dead bin Laden, buried in an unmarked location. Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/26/report-bin-laden-already-dead/


Late December 2001 to March 2002: bin Laden's "Death Video" is Released In late December of 2001, after reports of bin Laden's funeral, a new video appears of a gaunt, sickly Osama bin Laden. The London Telegraph reports, verbatim: "The recording was dismissed by the Bush administration yesterday as sick propaganda possibly designed to mask the fact the al-Qa'eda leader was already dead." One aid further concludes that the video was created earlier in the event bin Laden is dead, who by December of 2001 was so heavily surrounded he would have been unable to escape to obtain kidney dialysis. Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1366508/US-casts-doubt-on-bin-Ladens-latest-message.html


At this time CBS news also runs a story on bin Laden receiving kidney disease treatments in Pakistan the week before 9/11. Link:Osama bin Laden Near Death in 2002 (from Dan Rather CBS); US Government bin Laden LIE In January of 2002, The Guardian reports that the president of Pakistan speculates that bin Laden is now dead of untreated kidney disease based on video and photographs of a gaunt-looking bin Laden. Link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/19/afghanistan.oliverburkeman


In January of 2002, based on his analysis of video and photographs of bin Laden from December 2001, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta says that bin Laden seems to be having renal failure. He notes kidney dialysis is expensive, and suggests bin Laden would need help in obtaining medical treatment. Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/


In March 2002, the BBC reports on an interview with bin Laden's wife, who speaks of bin Laden in the past tense, notes his failing kidney and frequent use of pills and other medicines. She says she has not seen her husband since September 2001, but holds out hope that he is still alive: "I feel deep inside me that he is still alive." She also notes that bin Laden's wish was to die in Afghanistan and nowhere else: "He never spoke to me about his intention to leave Afghanistan and always wished to die there. He told me once that if he ever left Afghanistan, it would be to meet his Creator." She also says that bin Laden "always suffered from kidney and stomach pains and that he "told me once that he was going to Pakistan for treatment." Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/media_reports/1871182.stm


In March and April of 2002, U.S. officials downplay the threat of bin Laden, with Rumsfeld even saying the bin Laden threat has been "neutralized." Even Bush, called out for rarely mentioning bin Laden in 2002, admits: "We haven't heard from him [bin Laden] in a long time... I don't know where he is. I really just don't spend that much time on him, to be honest with you." Link: Bush: Truly not concerned about bin Laden (short version) In May 2002, ABC News reports on a new spliced-together tape from unknown time periods in which bin Laden appears "about the same" (that is, sickly-looking) as in the tape from December 2011. ABC News also says they have "learned intelligence reports indicate bin Laden had received a kidney transplant in Pakistan," but do not know when. Link: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79973&page=1


July 2002: FBI Chief Says bin Laden is Most Likely Dead; Nothing from bin Laden Since December 2001 In July 2002, the BBC reveals a bombshell: the FBI's counter-terrorism chief Dale Watson says bin Laden is '"probably dead." Conveniently, bin Laden's followers' claim that bin Laden will "not make more video statements until his group launches another attack on the United States." Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2135473.stm


In July 2002, CNN reports that bin Laden's close bodyguards were captured in February of 2002, but not bin Laden. The article also quotes mentions some high-level officials: "Some high-level U.S. officials are already convinced by such evidence that bin Laden, who has not been seen or heard from in months, is dead." Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20021204040117/http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/07/30/binladen.son/


In July 2002, Time Magazine reports that "intelligence officials are not certain whether Osama bin Laden is alive or dead" but that "they have found a tantalizing document that suggests he was living at least as recently as the last days of December [of 2001]." Link: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002840,00.html In July 2002, The New York Times runs another article on how Osama bin Laden is likely dead. The author notes how unusual it would be for bin Laden, known for his constant desire for media attention, would be silent for over half a year. Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/the-death-of-bin-ladenism.html


October 2002: Intelligence Officials Confirm bin Laden is Dead; bin Laden's Will is Released Also in October 2002 the D.C.-based news service The World Tribune, citing Israeli intelligence sources, reports that the United States and Israel have concluded that bin Laden died in Afghanistan in December 2001. They note that additional bin Laden messages are "probably fabrications," and that bin Laden's heir has been chosen. Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20021205223313/http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_terrorism_10_16.html


The president of Afghanistan also concludes that bin Laden is probably dead: "The more we don't hear of him, and the more time passes, there is the likelihood that he probably is either dead or seriously wounded somewhere." Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/06/karzai.binladen/ In October 2002 CNN reports that U.S. intelligence officials have obtained Osama bin Laden's will, which is dated December 14, 2001 (approximately the same date as has been reported bin Laden's funeral in Tora Bora by Fox News and other outlets). CNN also reports that there has been no evidence of bin Laden since December of 2001. Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/26/binladen.will/


2002 Onwards: Efforts to Target bin Laden are Closed Down; bin Laden = "Elvis" In 2004, the LA Times quotes Donald Rumsfeld (who mixes up Hussein with bin Laden) as admitting: "We've not seen him [bin Laden] on a video since 2001." Link: http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=9-11/binladen/death/rumsfeld-says-no-clues-to-bin-laden-since-2001.txt


In 2006 the New York Times reports the CIA had officially closed down the unit focused on capturing bin Laden the previous year. Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04intel.html?ex=1309665600&en=3779ed9b98bb9d22&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


In 2006, U.S. and Pakistani officials say they have not received any information about bin Laden in years: "no tips from informants, no snippets from electronic intercepts, no points on any satellite image." The article rehashes the December 2001 video of bin Laden as the most recent evidence (other than a second-hand claim from 2003) of bin Laden's existence. Some commandos are now giving Osama bin Laden the codename "Elvis." Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/09/AR2006090901105.html


The available reports overwhelmingly supports the view that bin Laden died of kidney failure in December of 2001. We have mainstream media reports from a variety of sources, and zero credible evidence since then, as admitted by top level offiicals. Even if you believe the official story, the evidence very strongly suggests some entity (either the CIA, Saudi Royal Family, the Pakistani government, or all the above) helped bin Laden survive long enough via medical treatments to be killed at a later point in time. This very well could be the "one big lie" Seymour Hersh has mentioned in The Guardian recently.

231 comments

Don't forget, a lot of Seal Team 6 that took part in the raid died in a helicopter crash about a month after.

Don't forget, a lot of Seal Team 6 that took part in the raid died in a helicopter crash about a month after.

Nope. The helicopter crash killed members of Gold Squadron. The raid on Abbottabad was carried out by Red Squadron. (Source.)

I don't see where that source said Abbottabad was carried about by Red, could you quote what I'm missing?

The very last paragraph: "The tragedy comes two months after JSOC's highest profile success -- the May 2 mission that killed al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden in his safe house in Abbottabad, Pakistan. That raid, conducted by DevGru's Red Squadron and air crews from the 160th, was executed without any friendly casualties."

Ha, thanks. Not sure how I missed that. Breezed right through it.

That's a good quote, but also be skeptical of what you read. I'm not saying it's not true I'm just saying I cannot t actually confirm if that is true, and the fact that I just don't trust the government 100% in general keeps me skeptical.

I am far more skeptical of this post as a whole than I am for the referenced article.

If it supported your conclusion it would become a viable source.

Didn't the rest die from "mysterious circumstances" after that? Like how Pat Tillman and Chris kyle died from suspicious circumstances????

Don't compare those two. Tillman was a true patriot against the war before he was killed. Kyle is a psychopath, compulsive liar and murderer

Don't forget, he lied about knocking out The Body Venture on O&A..lol.

I still hold a grudge against Norton for gargling his balls and never admitting that Kyle was a liar.

Jimmy is a sweet boy, but a little WEASEL nonetheless lol..

Norton is attracted to men and wants so badly to admit it but won't for whatever reason. It's why he loves MMA and does that goofy shit where he has them punch him, has fantasies about KISS kicking him down the stairs and then comforting him after and has sex with transvestites. He's a weird dude.

I was a gubernor

Mind shedding some light on why you think that with Kyle? Honest question, I just haven't read much about him or heard of that.

It started with the punching Jesse Ventura or 'scruffy face' in a bar in which nobody but his personal friends attest to....then the whole allegedly killing American citizens during Katrina because they were looters....then the whole car jacking lie that he was caught in.

Ah ok, wasn't aware of those except for the one involvimg Jesse. I'll look into those, thanks!

Wasnt Chris Kyle just shot by a former serviceman with ptsd? Is that really "mysterious circumstances"

Maybe....depending on who they were each serving....there seems to be some really dark stuff going on in the spec ops groups...and the private contractors...mostly......no paper sources....just on the ground. Once you catch that I am God and being treated like such bug....some seem to need shut down, need to be shut down....these guys have played with shit that blows their minds.......so many just break. 22@day the bastards in charge need drawn and quartered

You....forgot....to....add....more....ellipses....

I will try harder oh ye anonymous internet critiker....I will try harder...

On that note you should always use 3 periods, because that's an ellipse. Anything more is like using two commas,, instead of one.

Clandestine policy - Merc those who know to much and can expose you.

Like how Pat Tillman and Chris kyle died from suspicious circumstances????

i was not aware of this. i know one guy that said he was part of that unit wrote a book about the experience.

I think Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire but Pentagon covered it up.

If i remember correctly, he was pissed that U.S. forces were being used to protect the poppy fields and was gonna blow the whistle on it. Thats why he was killed.

Shit, never heard that. Wild.

Here's a link to the trailer on youtube for the documentary about Pat Tillman's service. I believe the documentary can be viewed on Amazon streaming. I saw it in the theatre and left fuming.

Thank you! Will definitely check this out.

i always thought that this connection isnt stronger than it should be. Opiate uses spikes (Rx and "Illegal" Controlled Substances) while we are militarily active in a region of massive production

It wasnt a region of mass production until the U.S. military started defending the fields and encouraging it, because money is involved.

If someone walking up to him and putting a gun directly to his head and pulling the trigger is friendly fire then yes. Another term for it would be he was assassinated.

Proof?

Nice Ad Hom argument

Nice typically shitty back up.

How is asking for proof an argument?

How is asking for proof an attack?

Oh I get it your a novelty account accusing him of the wrong fallacy.

1/10

He went to chomsky for help and ended up dead.

Yep.

Source? I don't think that's true at all

Someone else replied with a link. It appears it was a different seal team.

Is that actually true or was it a different team?

It was Seal Team 6 but a different squadron than the one that carried out the raid

yeah with the world's luckiest RPG shot. I'm sure they're all retired and living in South America.

Well done for pulling all these sources together.

If anyone is wondering what actually happened during the Abbottabad Raid in 2011 (in which President Obama famously claimed that Seals killed Osama bin Laden) this was my take on it back in 2013, based on eye-witness testimony from Pakistani television.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1nejhp/an_alternative_hypothesis_to_the_mainstream/

Its also worth noting that the image that was released supposedly showing bin Laden's face after it was shot is a complete fake. Its a lazy photoshopping of two pictures together.

EDIT: guys I know the picture was a hoax. I figured that out.

That picture was known to be a hoax immediately. It probably came from 4chan.

Yeah further down the thread I mentioned that I had done some researching to try and find a source after I posted that comment and couldn't find a legit one so it was probably a hoax.

Also worth noting that that image was not released by a government organisation and originates from 4chan

Link of pic?

Where's the second image from?

Presumably another dead member of Al-Qaeda. Not sure.

Is there a news article or a source where you got those pictures from?

Guardian: Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake

An image apparently showing a dead Osama bin Laden broadcast on Pakistani television and picked up by British newspaper websites is a fake.

The bloodied image of a man with matted hair and a blank, half-opened eye has been circulating on the internet for the past two years. It was used on the front pages of the Mail, Times, Telegraph, Sun and Mirror websites, though swiftly removed after the fake was exposed on Twitter...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake

I just googled "bin Laden dead photo" and its literally the first result on Images. But when his "death" broke on the news I remember seeing it leaked a few days later and it seemed to be all over the place. At the time, it felt to me like it was the Obama administration's way of saying "Look what we did! Oops we accidentally leaked a picture proving he's dead! Damn, guess there's no way you can doubt us now, right?" Except I very quickly found out (don't remember from where) that it was a fake. Just like his birth certificate was a fabrication from another kid's. I can link a video of that one if you'd like but that's totally off topic.

I really don't remember where I first heard about all this bin Laden picture conspiracy shit first but when it was on the news, this photo was hovering around on the internet as supposed proof. A quick googling of the phrase above pulls up a few news article results that all seem to dance around the topic but this is the only one I found that directly references the photo. I'm starting to wonder if the photo was supposed to be a hoax now, though. Because several articles from 2012 and 2013 reference the bin Laden death photos as being "unreleased." So maybe there was never really anything to this after all.

People get so butthurt over the birth certificate. Back when i was still a fairly staunch liberal and still had lofty opinions on politics in general, even I had trouble with the evidence that came out. And then the untimely passing of Andrew Breitbart, well yeah.. DEFINITELY got the very overt vibe that the topic was no longer up for discourse.

I really stopped giving a shit by 2009/10. But that's pretty much because most people heard he had made his birth certificate public and gave up. I just think its funny that very few people know how shittily photoshoped it is.

Right? That demarcation line.... I would have been booted straight out of my Photoshop 1 class in art school for that. Most memes are better

sometimes I wonder what the government would pay me to do shitty photoshop edits for them on a regular basis.

for the first photoshop job you get a large promised sum to keep it on the qt, and you get, immediately upon delivery of the photoshop work, a nice bullet in the head.

Why would he fake his birth certificate? It changes absolutely nothing about his eligibility for president even if he was born in kenya.

It changes absolutely nothing about his eligibility for president even if he was born in kenya.

I have heard this repeated a thousand times, and I'm afraid it's misguided - it would be true of someone born today, but not of somebody born in 1961.

This is because US legislation determining nationality has changed over time, and, as it happens, the law in force when Barack Obama was born in 1961 makes it quite clear that Obama's mother (Stanley Ann Dunham) was ineligible to pass on her US nationality if her child was born outside the United States (eg Kenya).

The relevant legislation is the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Section 301(a)(7). Please note that subsequent, amended versions of this Act are not relevant to Obama.

You don't know about this, because whilst we can discuss it here, it is never discussed in the mainstream media.

obviously you are just racist!... /s obviously

Not at all saying he did, just that there are obvious inconsistencies. Don't ask for sources, look it up yourself.

What?

There was a lot of pressure on the administration at the time to release photos. They refused, and never leaked one.

Seriously, if they'd leak a fake photo they'd definitely just create a new one by shooting someone in Guantanamo they wouldn't photoshop something.

And isn't that a picture of Tim Osman?

You had me up till you mentioned Obama's place of birth.

Time for a rabbithole then! Google the articles written about him when he was in college. Several varied references to him being a Kenyan and having a different last name (Satoro or something). I haven't looked into it too extensively yet, but given that much of what they tell us are lies to some extent, I don't doubt that it's possible.

Yeah I don't get caught up in stuff like that because it's exactly what you said, a bullshit rabbit hole. Obama was born in Hawaii, his mother was a noted anthropologist that moved him to Malayasia when she was studying. Satoro is his step father's name, his half sister shares it with him. You have to have a fundamental lapse of reason to believe he was born in Kenya.

I know this doesn't say much, but last time I was in India (<1 year ago) I was talking to my buddy who is smart and somewhat middle class (if you can call it that). He hadn't heard that OBL had been caught in Pakistan. Hadn't heard about it. I thought that was really strange.

That is strange. Perhaps the Indian media didn't make much of it, because they knew the whole Abbottabad story was an American confabulation.

I hope u are joking

And I hope your next contribution to the sub has some merit.

Not to mention that the single greatest loss of special opps forces happens leaving the compound.

solid.

Whether it was a bomb, a surface-to-air missile or whether it was shot down by one of the two other helicopters which also took part on the mission, I don't know. However, there were no survivors (the US claimed nobody was even injured!), just pieces of people and a stealth helicopter inside the compound that the US tried very hard to stop anybody else getting their hands on.

If they didn't want anyone getting their hands on this then they could have just got rid of them back at base or over countryside where a clean up would be far easier than in the compound they had just raided that was surrounded by witnesses and incoming Pakistani security forces. Whatever the truth that crash is the one thing you can know was not planned.

It think that is arguable - disposing of multiple witnesses after the fact looks very suspicious, and it runs the risk that information leaks out before the witnesses are silenced.

The reality is that a US stealth Blackhawk helicopter was destroyed inside the compound, and the Americans were very keen that nobody else be allowed to sift through the evidence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-china-usa-idUSTRE77D2BT20110814

Pakistani television. I can't imagine them being dishonest.......

This is the kind of relevant, factual and intelligent research this sub needs. Good job OP keep it up!

It's pretty compelling stuff but proof is an extremely strong word. This is not proof, this is evidence.

Thank you for the research but anyone with a brain knows not to trust the US government on this point (or anytime). Strange that he was "killed" before an important election for Ob(s)ama and supposedly they don't want to release a picture out of fear they'll upset the Mooslims? What are they gonna do? Bomb us? That happens already. Obama should be tried for treason.

what did obama do?

Not sure that it is what he is referring to, but his actions in Yemen are pretty deplorable.

So what you are saying is you only accept the evidence you want to accept, and then ridicule those who do decide to believe the case laid out by the US government. You ridicule Obama for not providing evidence of a dead Bin Laden, where is the photographic evidence in the above apparently water tight case of his death??

Well I guess the war in Iraq served only one purpose to bring the rise of Isis . This is the new Vietnam. War without victory.

Or end

One of the few in here that truly understands!

What does war in Iraq has to do with bin Laden?

ask bush, he seemed to know...

[deleted]

She did not only indicate he was dead but that he was killed by someone. So did he even die of kidney disease or was the kidney disease an assassination? Good share on the video may Benazir RIP.

Man that tore me up when she was assassinated.

she was right in the fucking open and knew she was a target. her bodyguards were fucking worthless.

why?

Because she seemed like a decent fucking human being that didn't need to die. A Muslim woman bursting onto the world politics scene cut down in her prime.

LOL. You have no idea about her then.

And please, don't play the "woman" card or the "Muslim" card. I rate people on their merit, not the number of vaginas they possess or which fictional character they believe in.

Enlighten me then

She carried out genocidal killings against the Muhajir community in the city of Karatschi. She embezzled money out of the country when people in that Thahar area (which she represented) were dying due to shortage of water. She also represented an area that is still stuck in 2000BC. Slavery is rampant, and actual slavery. With private jails and daughters raped if they don't tow the line. The top brass fucks their daughters anyways. These people grow up worshipping their owners. It's a disgusting, vile culture.

How do I know this? The slave-owners are rich as fuck, they send their sons (not daughters though) to the best colleges in America. I had them as friends. They are the most fucked up people. They brag about their slaves, how they embezzle government money, fuck Benazir herself gave his dad government contracts that were up to 5x over overinvoiced.

They do the work, take the "over invoiced part" to London or Dubai where they split it 50/50 with her.

These are just off the top of my head.

Oh yeah, another thing. How they uses slaves. So they'd commit any crime. And then a random slave would go confess and go to jail for their master.

It's so beyond fucked up, and they are proud of it. It's their culture. This is a place where the robbers were on TV complaining (I think a year ago) that the police is a nuisance.

It's a parallel world where right and wrong are switched.

But yeah, she has a vagina, so maybe you worship that.

I only worship one vagina and that's my wife's! But thank you for enlightening me, that's all information that I hadn't heard about and I'll be sure to look into it more. As a descendant of American slaves that does hit home to me.

See you can change opinions on the internet, with the right people I guess.

Small world, I worship it too. Sorry, just had to get that lame joke out of the way.

The fact is that all politicians are corrupt (esp. poor third world countries), so it kinda cancels out. I'd have no problems praising her if she had actually done some excellent stuff (despite being corrupt) for her country. She didn't do much. On top of that, actual literal slavery + killing of people for their race is something that is unacceptable. Monetary corruption I can live with.

Do you know that Pakistan still has a feudal system and most politicians are feudal? India ended it right after their independence. Pakistan's still stuck in that time.

Also, incidentally, they have a program in that region that basically gives out free money to "buy" support. Guess what it's called? (check the link)

http://www.bisp.gov.pk/

And sadly, since she has a vagina, Hillary just praised her slave-owning son yesterday I think. Forgetting the fact that every son comes from a vagina, so that doesn't make him any more special that any other son.

Is somebody scared of cooties?

Huh?

Here's some footage regarding her assassination - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNO_3qHHsgA

Don't forget her interview was censored.

She was amazing and they straight up assassinated her. Sad.....

Proof Bin Laden Died in 2001

I suspect that many of us will either be dead or too old to care when these facts are leaked from official sources or the government outright admits it. It will be reported like the thousands of other huge revelations and then buried by the latest celebrity gossip & deaths.

Once the institution of fear-managed government is deeply ingrained and people have given up their "old world liberties" (which will be deemed archaic at best, barbaric at worst; notions of self-determination, independence and "allowed to fail") then it will be safe (and perhaps even, horrifyingly, celebrated) to openly admit how government and liberty were co-opted. "The values of that world were bad, anyway. We're so much more enlightened and evolved now."

Here we come with self driving cars. Legislation for forced vaccinations. Government abduction is legal. The state is our parents even when we are parents. We live in a constant state of "justified" fear and suspicion and think our corrupt politics are the saving grace of this post-prosperity system. Masculinity is "toxic" and along with it competence and capability to not only govern our own, but our very selves.

Common core in our government-sponsored indoctrination centers we call school are all about black history and gynocentricism, teaching our youth that thinking for yourself and discriminating against things which may be socially unhealthy is bad, and that untenable decay is good and self responsibility is radical. Critical thought vilified.

Classic values which lifted civilizations are the greatest enemy. There's a new system being constructed which focuses totally on hierarchical victimhood, with whites the lowest on the totem. The biggest problem with this system is not that it is sticking and growing like a juggernaut of trash based on momentum. The biggest problem with this system is that it needs never to be based on any element of truth or reality.

It is a completely synthetic "reality," with a new aspect fabricated at will to push a new facet of control or domination. I've been called crazy for claiming we live in a "simulation." People think it's crazy because they don't think. They think I mean that we're plugged into a literal matrix with cords in our necks and our world is nothing but a digital approximation of life. While that's an apt allegory, it's not what I mean. The power of nuance is such that it is not grasped by most.

I've been called crazy for claiming we live in a "simulation." People think it's crazy because they don't think. They think I mean that we're plugged into a literal matrix with cords in our next and our world is nothing but a digital approximation of life. Why that's an apt allegory, it's not what I mean. The power of nuance is such that it is not grasped by most.

You should show them this video then. Or have them Google this.

By that time, it will not matter. JFK, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy...just foot notes in forgotten History.

Fuck that really got to me. This OBL situation is a HUGE part of our lifetime but 30 years from now people might not even have the slightest clue to what happened. Or care to even find out why 9/11 was a lie to the American people. It's been almost 40 years since JFK was killed and we're not even digging down to the bottom of it, it's forgotten. Yet in that time, when my parents were the same age as I currently am now, it was a big mystery/cover up. It was a major event that changed history. And now? They could care less. It's been so long they don't even care to ask questions. It happened, and that was it. Just like 9/11 happened yet we'll never get the answers in our lifetime. It was all designed to work this way.

53... Fifty three years ago they killed JFK.

People seem to not to think of this aspect. Like these people will matter in 100 years. Yea they are important now but 100 years they will be forgotten.

Wait wait wait.... Obama killed him in a secret raid, with stealth helicopters and pushed his body over the side of a ship in the middle of the ocean at 3am😂😂. Good research man.

lmfao. How did anyone believe that? "We got Bin Laden guys! Great, where is he? We threw his body over the ship into the ocean and didn't keep a single shred of evidence we ever had him!"

Question: Most of your sources are from the same organizations condemned by this community for spouting lie after lie after lie. But this time they are dependable?

Yeah, that's why it's important to catch them when they're contradicting themselves. At some point they stopped talking about his suspected death in 2001, and stopped asking questions about why the story changed.

Exactly, proof is in essence evidence helping to establish a statement. What is compiled above is largely mainstream articles, that as we know are mostly controlled and vetted by government and corporate interests before broadcast or publication. However, it seems that at the time bin Laden was on a dialysis machine and was suffering major organ failure, the media at the time presented the news unaware that he would be used as a scapegoat for years to come. Later an angenda would be pushed and all talk of his death buried.

Control over the media fluctuates over time. We all know about Operation Mockingbird. We also cannot expect to see 100 percent tyrannical control over all mainstream media. Ownership also fluctuates. The writers are usually regular people just doing their job. They may sometimes be able to slip things through, or the editors may decide to publish certain things in the back of the paper, basically censoring it, but convincing the writer that he or she is not being censored.

So how do you know when a news source is reporting a lie and when it's reporting a truth? Seems to me you pick the one that's better supported and decide that it must be the wrong one.

For example: Prince dies. Guy says he was Prince's drug dealer (Not illegal drugs but perception drugs; because pain killers are so terribly hard to acquire legally...). Guy offers no evidence to support his claim of supplying blackmarket pain killers to Prince. CNN presents the story as fact. Note to self: CNN presents made up stories as fact; be skeptical about them..

When you see a news source presenting completely bogus TMZ stories as fact (O.J. Knife bulllshit story, almost everything they wrote about Prince), be skeptical about those news sources.

Yes, I know that it really makes the pool of potentially credible news sources really small , but it's a good starting point.

You didn't answer his question about which stories you choose to believe and which you don't it seems you choose to believe the ones that support your beliefs and disbelieve the ones that don't support them.

My beliefs don't really play a role in what presented by the media I identify as credible and what seems suspect; rather a touch of logic, common sense and one's intellect are the only things that play a role.

Let's use the O.J. knife story: first curiosity was knowing that the fictional O.J. TV show had just experienced it's largest ratings drop and then when you read the article you learn that the knife had been turned in weeks before the "breaking news" was reported. Furthermore, to believe the story one has to believe that LAPD had not thoroughly searched O.J.'s property in 1995 and choose to forget that when O.J.'s house was torn down there were folks on the scene monitoring the destruction for potential evidence. So within an hour of reading the reports I would have bet my life on the fact that the knife had nothing to do with O.J. Simpson.

Hopefully that better explains how one's beliefs do not and should not factor into the process of identifying utter bullshit presented as fact.

Yes, and we also know Obama is a big liar.

Can't use Bin Ladin as a preface for a decade long war if you tell your peasants the guy who is at fault is sick as hell and will be dead soon.

Dude had like six months to live at the end of 2001. I really don't know why they went with the raid charade. I seem to remember them releasing a bunch of bad news early in the week and then Osama makes a random reappearance just to get shot and dumped in an ocean.

Obama did it to get re-elected.

funny though many of us know its a lie.

Not enough of us

what was the reason given for dumping the body in the sea? did they think 10000 terrorists would swoop over New York had the body been displayed to the public at the WTC memorial?

Great research. Thank you!!!

.. damn

this is compiled very well, excellent research.

in the 2011 raid that the official explanation claims killed OBL, there was at least one independent source that claimed to be a sort of eye witness to a raid being conducted in pakistan at the location government officials claimed OBL was hiding. it was, of all things, some random dude on twitter. he remarked on the helicopters in the middle of the night.

another odd occurrence surrounding OBL's death is the timing in regards to the obama administration. in the same week as the raid, the obama adminstration also released his birth certificate and if i remember correctly, did something to the tea party (i believe, a little fuzzy) to kind of show them up. all 3 in the same week. not sure if this is just a coincidence or if something else is at play here.

id like to ask if you had done any research into the possibility that OBL received a kidney transplant. that would have been the only thing to ensured that he remained alive, but any evidence you could find of this would probably be hearsay at best. not saying your research is wrong here, just playing the devils advocate.

finally, id like to ask your opinion as to why wait until 2011? if he had been dead for years, why suddenly come out and say they killed him?

I will research further on the kidney transplant. I believe the timing had a lot to do with setting in stone Obama's second term. He was allegedly killed close to an election. Not sure if there are any other correlations to the timing but like I said his death largely being the responsibility of the Obama Administration significantly increased his approval ratings.

awesome. let the sub know what you find. good job.

2011 was also a time of yet another large build-up of troops in iraq and Afghanistan, so maybe that also played a role in the supposed assassination. Give the public a reason to continue the war on terror. I know about the military angle because I was still enlisted at the time. I may not be providing you with another reason you are looking for though, so sorry if that is the case.

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Yeah, mostly just called the surge 2,since the first 1 took place in 05

Does anyone in this sub understand what 'proof' actually means?

And can you prove it?

Where was the evidence he was actually alive after 2001? It's was almost completely non existent. They didn't even have a body to confirm he was actually killed, because they conveniently dumped it in the ocean, if you can believe that.

Where was the evidence he was actually alive after 2001?

Where's the evidence he wasn't hiding on Mars? See we can both do that. The OP raises questions and is very interesting however it is not proof.

Well for a guy who was a public figure, actual new video footage would have been proof enough. No need to go to mars.

[removed]

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. Final warning.

Where was the personal attack there champ?

Calling another user here a "hoe".

It's a term of endearment for those who are fighting the good fight and ' digging ' for the truth!

Lots of "Maybe", "Probably" and "Likely"-dead in the articles.

Title - 'proof bin Laden died in 2001'

With that logic you can easily prove Sandy Hook the same way right?

Prove that sandy hook happened? Yes. It happened.

That's proof?

Excellent compendium of reports; regardless of one's opinion of this information proving the reality of when Bin Laden's death occurred, it definitely proves that facts or history play no role in what passes for "news" and it also proves how easily the public can be manipulated and the pubic has no memory.

One omission I noticed: Prior to the 2004 election they rolled out an audio recording of Bin Laden making "new" threats.

"Yeah, we took out America's most wanted without proof...you believe us right?" -Obummer administration

Thats not proof. Its an argument

A pretty convincing one. Kind of seems more plausible than the tale we have been given -- complete with no body, due to "burial at sea."

Guess we'll have to find his body in the ocean and check!

Correct, but the argument is quite solid. Also every 'new' bin laden that got released he seemed to be getting younger and younger -> http://i.imgur.com/teJdwjF.jpg The whole bin laden assassination thing was suspect at best, I mean they dumped his body in the sea so no one could positively identify it.

Look I'm sorry, but can someone explain how a bunch of random new snippets that probably all originated from a single sketchy source or two, magnified in the classic mainstream journalist echo-chamber, and even at points contradict each other, are a "solid argument".

The Bin laden thing is pretty simple. After 2001 there was virtually no new audio/video of the guy at all. Every time the media released a piece on Bin Laden it was always old video rehashed. Ie the evidence he was alive after 2001, was almost non existent. At the same time you've got multiple independent people reporting on the fact he was on dialysis and suffering from kidney disease, also that later on he had already died. What perfect way to keep a perpetual war going, chasing an invisible phantom. Obviously this is not absolute proof, only a body would be absolute proof. But unfortunately it doesn't exist because it was conveniently disposed of, presumably so no one could authenticate it.

But you also have multiple independent people reporting that Bin Laden is alive. This is really par for the course for a person you don't recieve much info about and is in hiding. You had constant reports of Bin Laden's death, just as you had about even random celebrities that go out of public light for a while. People want to know and they'll grab anything they can.

Really I think the simple fact that to my knowledge Al Quaeda and Sadams family repeatedly rejected notions that he was dead before 2011, but haven't after the supposed hit sort of holds more water than random ramblings by a bunch of newspapers.

I also think one of the biggest problems I have with this theory is that the US pretty much gave away that they have a stealth variant of the MH-60 Black Hawk, as the one that crashed during the raid and was destroyed showed signs of being obviously quite different to standard Black Hawks. Also working into the whole problem of how the helicopters even got to the compound without detection by Pakistani forces. If the raid was just a "false flag" and Bin Laden wasn't killed, it was very stupid to basically reveal to the world that you have apparently extremely stealth capable helicopters.

I mean this mind sound trivial, but the MH-60 Stealth is obviously some sort of a Black Project like the F-117, and as such it really wouldn't be risked unless absolutely necessary. The crash left debris that anyone could pick up, plus resulting in photos of the wreckage, meaning that foreign nations could get a hold of it and analyze the absorbant paint, materials and just the design of the tail rotor asembly, which was left pretty intact. The F-117 for example wasn't revealed for 5 years and only really started being used for more regular work almost a decade after it's introduction.

They also dumped the body at sea against Muslim burial traditions? The USA has a cozy relationship with the Bin Laden's to this day.

What a strange thing to do to the body of someone's son/brother/etc... while still maintaining a relationship with their extended family.

"September 2001, PBS' Frontline interviews the former general counsel for the CIA, mentioning reports from 1998 that the DEA found out Osama bin Laden was undergoing kidney dialysis with a doctor in Peshwar. They mention further that the DEA wanted to poison bin Laden through his dialysis machine, but the CIA allegedy rejected this due to the ban on assassinations"

PBS is awesome! Anywhere i can see these interviews? Also "ban on assassinations" was this before or after Mr. Kennedy?

This is great! I hope everyone never trusts the media ever again.

thanks for the links, there's nothing much explosive in them though. most of the good explosive youtube videos (like the interview with the guy who claimed he heard pashtun being spoken) are nowhere to be seen. why are these videos allowed?

i'm not saying that you're doing the following, but it occured to m while watching the 3 videos above, that another way of disinformation, is to provide weak time-consuming material which when consumed would tire out the reader from seeking/reading further, i just wasted 20 minutes watching these videos and they did not give anything out at all, nothing new, and now i'm tired, have got other things to do.

All we can know is that the supposed assassination that happened was clearly bullshit, the rest we will probably never know.

The very idea that US Special Forces would take his body, and "bury it at sea within 24" according the Muslim traditions, to honor a terrorist, is fucking absurd and that alone tells you it was a farce.

That is not proof, that is hearsay.

Good job on the list.

Awesome job, but I'm curious do you think there's any reason the Bush administration wouldn't announce the death of OBL it seems like it would be a big win for the administration

Just my two cents but the hunt for bin Laden was a big motivation for a lot of the blind patriotism in America. Plus, if he was in that bad of shape, it could see people finding it more difficult to believe he orchestrated 9/11 and thus would make people think even moreso that it was an inside job... I dunno. Just brainstorming.

Great write up.

Detailed and comprehensive. Excellent job!

guy had Marfan Syndrome. Who doesn't get dialysis in the mountains of Tora Bora? IT WAS ALL PART OF HIS MASSIVE CAVE BUNKER!

This is at best, and in the loosest possible terms, evidence. Not proof.

I dont believe he was killed in 2011. I dont really believe this either.

Found the defense lawyer!

I am curious what the gov lied for, and why didnt they just move into this ISIS story long ago?

Bureaucratic incompetence maybe?

Fascinating.
Conspiracy is an ugly word for the truth.

Proof is the wrong word for raising questions too.

shill spotted?

But it didn't take a genius to notice they were only showing old video of him either.. lol

I forget were I read that right before he died in 2001, he was in a Dubai hospital I think, and when they offered to turn him over to the U.S., Bush refused to get him stating that "we don't negotiate with terrorists". lol.

That would of killed their ability to keep the lies going is more like it. Anyway, good work. Maybe the fact 9 of the 9/11 hijackers were found alive can be next.

I said to friends back on the day they rolled out the Bin Laden raid and the Navy Seals dying in an "accident" days later involving Army helicopters that this was BS to save his election. This along with the movie that came out and no funeral except that "at sea" BS al but confirmed it for me.

The Seals that died were not the same ones who carried out the raid.

That is the story they released later.

Thank you for this evidence. More people should know.

Did everyone here just take crazy pills?

No, why do you ask?

Yeah no fucken shit

I'm really late to this party, but I can't believe that so many people don't question the outrageously fortuitous coincidence that Bin Laden was killed during Obama's second election cycle, and there was absolutely no supporting evidence.

Exactly.

This is a really great sub.One that needs to be kept bouncing.So given the idea that ''Elvis'' died way before,what do you all think were the political reasons for this operation?Like what was gained at that time,or what was it covering up media wise?

Please stick to the topic at hand. I don't mean to be a hard ass, just make another post if you want to know more about his death.

All i asked was if there was a correlation between Osama's death and what washington was doing at that time.Like was it covering up something else.

disinformation.

why is this untrustworthy but the ones OP posted are not?

i've seen that article and its a joke. I have done much research in the past and I believe bin laden died in 2001. The US media has presented numerous bin ladens over the years and he seemed to get younger and fatter. But I believe the real bin laden died in 2001.

nowadays i think snowden is fake, he doesn't mention anything about 9/11

limited hangout

Oh the Moscow Tribune. Well now.

nice stuff

No mention of Benazir Bhutto's interview?

Dude, this is the perfect example of someone doing their homework to get the facts instead of just talking out the ass or repeating other peoples b.s..

I also have an original clipping of his obituary from the Egyptian newspaper al-Wad, dated December 26, 2001. A translated version can easily be found by just googling "Bin Laden Obituary".

It's all just absurd as fu(k when you know the truth, especially when you see that fake ass video of him allegedly in the apartment right before the fake raid. It was hilarious to watch them back track when they were called out on the fake photos.. lol

Outstanding work, there are two stories here, Bin Laden obviously, but the scrubbing is rather interesting, and is unknown to a lot of people.

What about the people who participated in the raid in 2011? Did they know he was already dead?

But... But... I thought President Obama single-handedly killed him himself.

No, it was Hillary!

This is a "good" conspiracy because it has good intentions. It's like the moon landings ... "a feel good" farce for the benefit of all mankind. There some "good guys" out there and occasionally they can "win" against the odds. The historical narratives are completely woven out yarns, just like this one. I read Sartre, I read Neitszche, I read Mark Bloch and Chalmers Johnson.

Those reports don't constitute proof or evidence. I am sure there is more to the Abottabad raid than we'll ever know but my real question here is if Bin Laden was really dead in 2001, why the hell weren't AQ plastering that all over the internet after Obama announced the raid in 2011?

How stupid would the govt have looked if they announced this amazing raid and then AQ provide actual proof that Bin Laden had been dead for years? It would have been an incredible propaganda coup for them and could have brought down the Obama administration.

Really?

My understanding was that he met with CIA and Saudi officials July 2001 because he was close to death and wanted to give information about rivals and pushing the Saudi agenda of destabilization to be the leading oil consultant/ trader for all oil producing countries. We now know Saudi was behind the whole 9/11 attacks. Since the CIA was there too, we can speculate that they knew about it all. After the attack, he probably died BC of being the most wanted man in the world. Benazir Bhutto also confirmed this. He became America's martyr for war so Saudi and America could get regional control...

Israel did 9/11.

28 pages is bullshit to keep furthering the narrative that muslims were responsible for 9/11

Larry Silverstein watched building 7 collapse

5 dancing israelis were set up in advance "to document the event"

I don't think it's just Israel. It's a whole network of different people that all had something to gain. Israel got more funding, Saudi got weapons, oil tycoons got free resources, military contractors got huge contracts... just blaming Jews and Israel is dumb. Most their people are clueless citizens like us, it's actual people that exist that are to blame. Individuals and societies of small groups. I don't want to be blamed for Iraq. I didn't join the military, I sold my car to buy less oil, I protested the invasion.... stop lumping against the whole and educate yourself on the individuals and attack them. Otherwise, these evil individuals can hide in the Jewish community and claim you're attacking them unfairly.... I tell the same thing to israelis that blame Arabs, Palestinians, and Hamas all in one. Attackers are individuals and do not represent the whole... it's unfair to persecute a whole group based on the actions of a few people... it perpetuates war and hate against innocent people.

well said.

great reply.

yeah i try to see it above that, even if jewish people were involved, there are other rich and powerful people in the world too who would have likely been involved too, like you said saudi oil tycoons, weapons manufacturers from various european countries and scores of other huge tycoons around the world. Maybe there were some jewish people involved too. It's not this country's or that country's, this race's or that race's, this religion's or that religion's people, it's the group of very very super rich people from various religions/countries/races/companies that maybe playing these global games of war and money.

We now know Saudi was behind the whole 9/11 attacks.

Either you're a shill or really naive.

Just because they are behind the whole attack doesn't mean others aren't behind the entire thing too. People always play small roles, but certain people played large rolls. It's not all Saudis and it's not all Jews nor is it all israelis. It's a select few people that identify with these larger groups that conspired and committed this crime. Don't jump to some pfffft scoffy response. We can't demonize the people like you and I in other paces searching for truth, while a select few that live in their region did it. I did not want this, i sold my car and have rode a bicycle since to reduce my oil purchases.

Demonize like me? You made that silly claim that the Saudis were initiator of an attack against the USA on US soil.

What the Saudis most likely were part of is helping with/running the necessary terror management to create the social environment so the USA could justify their military agenda in Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/....

They might even be fooled/bullied/given promises to provide the services/patsies and unwittingly fell into the trap the USA set for the future(28 pages of nonsense) if needed.

But the assumption that they would have organized and executed 11/9 on US soil is so mind boggling ridiculous in itself.

That large complex military operation required several branches of the US governments to keep in line, the western intelligence/political and media realm to co-operate. That means it was executed with the support or even supervision of NATO which is ultimately an instrument of the USA again.

The only status the Saudis have for the elites which control the USA is a means to an end. If they end their usefulness all the treasure they collected with the USD/Oil deal will be "retrieved" by all means necessary.

Or that's just what they want you to believe.

So the footage of a grey haired anxiously obviously older Bin Laden's watching his best hits on a VCR in Abbotabad was faked also.

Sorry guys I'm more of the opinion the gov was to stupid to be able to find him the whole time.

But what do I know. Im so delusional I saw planes go into the twin towers si I must be a sheep. I mean silly me can't come up with a reason why anyone could be so redundant to say a controlled demolition when you assist already were going to crash planes anyway. You guys give this dumb government way to much credit.

Ya blew it

So who did they bury at sea and who was portraying him after his death?

I recall the reason for burying at see was that his religious beliefs dictated their dead be buried within 24 hours or whatever. We had to honor it apparently?

Muslims believe in burying their dead asap as per their beliefs. I've never heard of burial at sea being a religious requirement which instantly led me to believe the americans story as horseshit

actually we buried at Sea on the idea that he couldnt be turned into a trophy or martyred. But i also dont think that was OBL

Presumably another dead member of Al-Qaeda. Not sure.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. Final warning.

lmfao. How did anyone believe that? "We got Bin Laden guys! Great, where is he? We threw his body over the ship into the ocean and didn't keep a single shred of evidence we ever had him!"

Prove that sandy hook happened? Yes. It happened.

obviously you are just racist!... /s obviously

Is somebody scared of cooties?