Revolution Approaches - What are the Options?

34  2016-09-20 by magnora7

We all know things are broken. It's no secret things are almost maximally corrupt, like a sponge completely soaked with water that cannot hold any more.

Things cannot go on like this forever, we are on a path that the psyches of the masses cannot sustain because it is increasingly abusive. We're being abused by our media, by our government, by our police, by our schools, by our judges, by our legal system, our prisons, our lobbying system, our elected officials, our election systems, our work culture, our financial system, our student loan crisis, our endless wars and bombings of other countries including the support of ISIS while lying to the domestic public and saying the opposite... it's all abuse. I'm done with it. You're probably getting close to being done with it, if you're not there already, given the fact you're reading this.

So let's talk about revolutions.

There's a few different paths I see the US and many other countries going down over the next 40 years. To be clear, I am not advocating any specific action in this post, I am simply evaluating the possible paths the US could go down to try and guess where things might go, and how each outcome might look.

The most blatant option is an armed revolution. Where some group of armed people actively opposes the national government in some way. There are a few ways this can go, and they are all bad because the state has a near-monopoly on violence and will thus almost always win if things are escalated to the level of violence, especially in the United States. Here are some things that could happen:

  • Armed insurrection - The insurrectionists get branded as terrorists, like a domestic ISIS. They are hated by the public because they introduce instability. They are blamed for all the ills of society. The government arrests or kills them all, and the public cheers. Fail.

  • Civil war - The anti-government side grows in support and there is a prolonged civil war, similar to the 1860s US civil war. The most devastating war in US history, claiming 800k American lives. Fail.

  • Military coup - If a faction of the military was coordinated enough against the government, a military coup could happen, but this is extremely unlikely because the US military has a fantastic indoctrination system. Any civil war would probably have factionalizing the existing military as a prerequisite. Civil war. Fail.

None of these results are desirable. Any violent action that makes progress toward overthrow will be infiltrated by the CIA. They are the experts at violent overthrow. They have overthrown 53 governments since WW2! After doing something fifty-three times, you can imagine they're pretty good at it. You can imagine they would be equally good at it here, their home. This means any of the above options would be very likely to result in further consolidation of CIA power after the war is over. They would be "driving the car" when it comes to the war, because they have the funds, arms, means, and experience to be able to do this easily. They may not want a US civil war, but you can guarantee if it happens they will be the ones guiding the actions of the major players.

So now it's clear a violent option is not a good idea because it does not resolve the underlying issues and actually creates conditions that can easily wind up giving more power to those people who are skilled at waging war, which is the opposite of what is wanted.

So let's look at the meat of this discussion, the options of non-violent revolution that are before us.

  1. We vote our way out of this. Unfortunately one company owns closed-source code to our paperless voting machines, and there's all sorts of other rigging like gerrymandering and our two party system designed to consolidate things down to an unavoidable duopoly, both sides of which are largely controlled by the same people. Avenue for change, closed. Fail.

  2. Revolution through the legal system, by rewriting law through lobbying efforts and courtroom precedent by lawyers. Unfortunately the best lawyers are the most expensive, those with the most money to spare for lobbying are those with the most money in the first place. Both the lawyer and lobbying route get taken over by big money. Fail.

  3. Work stoppages and labor union action. Thanks to outsourcing and insourcing of jobs, the job market is flooded with laborers. Workers are easily replaceable. Unions are weak and sparse after 4 decades of propaganda. It's hard to organize people because everyone is barely making enough to live, and it's very hard to find a job. People don't want to risk being fired, and turnover is so high that people don't band together to fix problems. Route for change, closed. Fail.

  4. Large-scale long-lasting protests. Protests in certain locations can clog up key streets and buildings for TPTB, effectively clogging their business machinery, which hits them in their pocketbook which makes them pay attention. OWS was very close to this, but it lacked the numbers to truly break through. They never actually occupied Wall Street. I think this is the reason it failed. And the reason that didn't happen is because there weren't enough people. They were able to box people in (kettling, which is illegal) on the Brooklyn bridge and arrested 1200 people in one of the key days of OWS. Had it been 50x more people, the police would not have been able to pull off such a thing, and Wall Street itself might've been occupied, and the protest could've gone a completely different direction.

    Read about the "Pots and pans revolution" of Iceland in 2009, this wiki article is fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Icelandic_financial_crisis_protests

    The people of Iceland went to the capital, clogged up the streets with tons of people, and they all brought pots and pans from home and banged them together to create so much noise that congress had to end their session because people couldn't hear. They did this for WEEKS. Non-stop, without break. And as a result, they actually dissolved the existing government and got to write a new constitution from scratch, which they crowd-sourced to the public! Yes Iceland is smaller than most countries, but there is no reason this sort of activity can't be scaled up. And it doesn't matter how homogeneous a country is as long as they are homogeneous about this idea, that's all it takes for this to happen. Only 3-10% of the public has to participate for it to work.

    Another problem with sit-in revolutions like this is the agent provocateur. If confronted with large-scale protests that are uncontrollable, the police and military will sometimes put plants in the crowd, people who act as violent protesters to create violent situations, which then gives police justification to step in an start arresting/beating people "for public safety, because the riot is clearly out of control" which the news media and thus public believes. This is a way to break up the protest, and everyone protesting must be aware of this possibility and maintain a situation of staunch anti-violence, perhaps the crowd working together to hold back anyone who begins inciting violence.

These are the options as I see them, going by what history has shown us. Again I'm not advocating anything here, just wondering if the US is going to have a smart revolution or a dumb revolution. Or maybe both at the same time. If I missed a big option, please post about it. It's a complex subject that is discussed much less than it should be. I see some sort of revolution as inevitable given the way things are going, and it'd be nice if an informed public were guiding that, instead of the CIA.

26 comments

I'm getting a lot of downvotes. Would anyone care to voice a criticism instead of just downvoting? I'm open to discussion.

I mean we can just keep kicking the can down the road and pretending there's no problem and keep trying the failed solutions, but there will come a day when that doesn't work anymore and a revolution will happen of its own accord. I think talking about it before it happens might be a good thing because the moment itself will probably be quite chaotic. Knowledge is power, after all.

Good points although i feel even peaceful protests will be broken up with the typical riot police weaponry. I think they'll drive us to a war although I'm not sure how many soldiers they'll be able to muster.

I think you're right, but the more peaceful the protesters are, the less justified the police actions will be in the eyes of the public, which is key for PR to grow support.

I love the idea of them starting a war and no one showing up.

Ya idk I just have little faith in the system to treat a peaceful protest peacefully due its history.

They dont need to treat it peacefully, the public just needs to see the crowds as peaceful and the police as violent agitators. If that is accomplished, then the public will side with the protesters and their numbers will grow. So even if the establishment cracks down, they still lose

True, people seeing police being the aggressors with peaceful protesters will turn people onto the revolutionaries side. However i wonder if the revolution will not televised and people are kept in the dark. They know very well how to distract the masses, and keep info away from the people. As long as we have the Internet though we'll televise the whole thing.

Of course the mainstream media will spin and ignore it as much as possible, that's why everyone needs to be on their best behavior, because any misstep will be broadcast from the mountain tops, and all successes will be ignored in order to paint a biased picture in the minds of the public.

It'll be interesting that's all I know

Certainly will

I don't think there will be a technological fix, as much as I enjoy /r/futurology. Basic income is going to become increasingly important as jobs disappear, but I don't know how it can be paid for without first replacing the existing federal reserve system and returning the right of money creation to the government for this end

Given the volatility of an armed revolution in the United States (right to bear arms and stuff) I'm pretty sure any serious attempt would be crushed immediately with the use of heavy force. Then the media would come in and distort the narrative or flat out avoid the public ever becoming aware that it happened. It's already too late imo. The second world war set the rails for unbreakable domination of the judeo-masonic-capitalist elite.

While the use of heavy force would be an effective deterrent on a group of revolutionaries, if multiple insurrections broke out nationwide simultaneously, a civil war of citizens vs the army would occur. In this case, the citizens could over run the army, especially since the loyalty of the army would be in question the moment these fights broke out. Many soldiers would fight from the inside to overthrow the corrupt government. Those who encircled Washington to protect it would only need to do an about face to then have Washington surrounded.

I agree that a lot of the people I meet in the military nowadays do not seem nearly so brainwashed as you might expect.

That said, they also see a lot of the American populace as fat, stupid, lazy and worthless.

Remember how the cavalry used to duck behind their horses in particularly ferocious battles? Be sure to keep a few of these fat, stupid, lazy and now useful Americans close when the battles begin.

Please feel free to visit /r/magnora7 for more

Keep your life, keep your job and your microwave keep your lifestyle. Keep your bank account.

Just suddenly insist that your leaders have a conscience.

They simply never have had that required of them before and we see the result.

When they don't have a conscience and feel no remorse, they feel no need to keep you away from harm.

In a nutshell, If someone has the power of life or death over you, wouldn't it be better for you if that person had some kind of conscience?

I'd insist on it before they ever got that power over my life.

We could do what we did last time and get help from other nations.

You're talking about the 1860s US Civil War? I'd prefer to avoid such a scenario from happening again if possible. The violence only hurts the poor and further empowers those expanding their empires, imo

I'm talking about the american revolution.

Oh I see, my fault.

Can the problem even be approached the same way, given it's from within rather than an outside influence from another nation like it was then? I suppose people could go to the midwest and abandon the east coast in a similar manner, but the problem seem so systemic at this point, it seems unlikely that one part of the country is that much better than the others because it's all fairly uniform at this point in terms of how much it hinges on the US federal government.

I'm not even really considering the violence thing when I say this. The rest of the world is as fed up with us as we are. America right now isn't just our problem. It's everyone's. And if the american people get behind the nations that stand up to us, those nation's will stand behind the american people. If that makes any sense. We've (Americans) all been asked by Europeans on reddit why we put up with this shit. Maybe it's time we start telling them we need help.

Fair enough, those are interesting ideas. But how do we do that without it just resulting in a war of China/Russia vs US/Europe/Israel? Because China's version of "Stand up to the US" has been to take over more islands in the south china sea, and Russia's has been to annex parts of ukraine and crimea. How can they help stand up to the US beyond just furthering these wars? Trade embargos? What else is there if that's not effective and would actually help dig the American people out of this hole we're in?

I feel like this would lead to more of a velvet revolution. America can't really fight a hot war with it's citizens in support of the opposition and vice versa. I'm also speaking more to public support from other nations, rather than military. Right now the american people are the target of global anti american sentiment. We shouldn't be. we should be the center of it. Edit: I should also mention I don't really mean china and russia when I talk about the rest of the world. They'll have their own revolutions soon enough.

The velvet revolution is mention-worthy no doubt, but from what little I understand about it, it happened because the USSR was collapsing as it happened in 1989. The states of the US could break off in to independent nations in a similar fashion, since there is already a framework for that, but I think things would have to be a lot more dire before the states will try something like that, because they receive so much federal funding that they cannot have interrupted without it seriously harming the state's economy. Plus any serious attempts at separating would result in some sort of federal occupation, covert or blatant, that would keep the state withdrawing within reign.

Remember Lincoln fought much of the civil war over preserving the union of states, that is keeping power nationalized and centralized. I think the current government would do the same. Unless many many states all broke off and became independent at once, which is what happened to the small states after the collapse of the British and Soviet empires. Because both of these happened in the wake of a collapse and they all did it together, there was not as much violent conflict as a result.

I suppose it's possible we could see a similar situation in the US, but I imagine the states grouping in to several regions, maybe the US breaks in to 20 pieces, or 5 pieces. Who knows. But the amount of power coagulated at the federal level gives them a big advantage and control over most all the states. Something seriously bad would have to happen to the economy for most states to withdraw from federal support, perhaps like a USD currency collapse.

Sorry that was longer than I meant it to be. I think you're hitting on something important here though

Honestly, at some point the other nuclear powers are going to get sick of oit shit. I would lay even money on a nuclear war in the next few decades. Hell, if somebody does the right wrong thing in Syria we could see it happen tomorrow.

I don't think there will be a technological fix, as much as I enjoy /r/futurology. Basic income is going to become increasingly important as jobs disappear, but I don't know how it can be paid for without first replacing the existing federal reserve system and returning the right of money creation to the government for this end

Certainly will