What happened to the Fourth Amendment? What happened to balance of powers? What happened to democracy?

The government sold our democracy

agreed...information is power, and they know as it is now it has no boundaries....they must change that if they hope to continue running the world as they do.

I just can't imagine ever being so power-hungry and greedy. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

You answered your own question

What's so weird is how this will affect every corporate user of VPN, including any CEOs etc. Like a simply enormous percentage of the corporate world will be affected. But maybe that was the point?

Blackmail bonanza. They will be able to control anyone, no matter how rich or powerful they are.

The only way out of this is to bomb the Dutch!!

Nou YOU sold democracy in return for security but ironically now you have neither.

How naive.

Where's muh Country gawn

True, but more importantly. The oligarchy bought it.

Our government was a Republic .... now it's an oligarchy/dictatorship/communist sympathizing hell hole that our God Emperor will fix ....

No.

We gave it away and allowed it to get stolen from us.

Democracy is an ideal that blinds the people to the actual oligarchy that stepped into power. Authority is a claim made by one party and acquiesced to by another. The democracy that we were sold never existed- it is nothing more than the definition of the system we now live under. The true values of this system are plain, and we are deluded to believe it serves the interests of any but the psychotic few. The political system is slavery. Totalitarianism, fascism, communism, socialism, progressivism....these are all different masks on the same face. Some masks are more appealing to certain people. But the face underneath remains the same.

The word anarchy comes from the Greek words 'a/an' meaning against/opposite of/without, and 'archon' meaning ruler. So the word anarchy literally means "without rulers". So it is not a state of "no rules", but one of no rulERS or masters...which is the definition of FREEDOM. Look at the way this word has been co-opted and contorted in our lexicon. For many people it drums up ideas of chaos and lawlessness, when the ACTUAL word means "a state of not having masters".

We need to be extremely critical and cognizant of the way words are used against us by the control system.

Our society today is called Neo-Feudalism.

The Medieval System of Government, never left us, it simply adapted to changing times. Nobility is a real thing, we(You and I) are peasants without even being aware of it, well of peasants in relation to most of the worlds peasants.

-Oligarchy rule and own the Industry's, Banking, and Government.

-Religious leaders appease to the peasants daily struggle by promising a light at the end of the tunnel

-Military protects the oligarchy Abroad.

-Police protect the Oligarchy domestically.

-Every form of tax is the peasants way of paying homage to the oligarchy for protection. With taxes upwards of 40% for well off peasants, is used to crush the upper-middle class to prevent new oligarchs.

-You're a land baron if you own property ( Ie...ranch,farm, apartment housing).

-Merchant if you own a small business.( Which is why they are trying to crush small business owners)

-House ownership is way over priced in relation to what you actually get, less than an acre, with a glorified TeePee on it.

-You're fenced in like a sheep through something we call a "border". You can visit other ranches (countrys) but you sure as hell can't stay unless you bring something big to the table, Like $250,000 investment to get into a country like Ireland

-Your given an "identification" number at birth something they call a "Social Security Number", what does that even mean??? Like a tattoo on a holocaust victims arm.

What does the Income gap mean? What does unfair wealth distribution mean? It means is an ever polarizing Peasant-Noble society/economy.

Starting to see the connections? There is no freedom. There is no democracy. You have no choice.

The CIA Factbook (2015) defines the USA government as "a constitution-based, Federalist Republic, with strong democratic traditions". Just saying. Call it what you'd like, though, I guess..

Well if the CIA says we're free then I guess we are...

What about that spells Freedom? A Republic (especially if Federalist), is about as far from democracy as one can get, while maintaining the illusion that "the sovereign" has any kind of choice.

I am just pointing it out, because I am frustrated with how many people argue from the position of,

1)America should be a Democracy 2)America doesn't resemble a Democracy

In making that the foundation of their argument, they are actually defeating themselves, before they even begin.

Fair enough. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Also fair enough. I need to remember to include context, and present whole ideas (instead of presuming conversation will expand them).

didnt texas used to vote democratic? lol

Some of what you said is accurate, but your SSN regardless of whether you agree with the program itself is necessary for identification purposes. If we want to live in a more secure society. Yes there will always be bad guys able to steal your identity, but it makes it just that much more difficult when you add in another layer of security like SSN.

It would be far too hard to track hundreds of millions/billions of people simply by name alone, especially when thousands of people have the same name.

SSN were never meant to be used for identification. That they are has created more problems than solved. Use of SSN was meant to be relegated to use by Social Security offices. Just a way to get and track SS payments, not a way for third parties to record your credit history, medical history, education history. Each of these entities should be producing their own unique identifiers for you (in addition to your account number or medical record number). As it is, a SSN is a great skeleton key to someone's identity.

Real life case in point: South Korea.

Im really glad you posted this and I hope you make the same arguement not only on other subreddits, but in real life too.

I honestly try to take every opportunity I can to talk about this kind of stuff because it is more critical now than ever that we break through our programming and reclaim our sovereignty as individuals and our agency as a human species. Thanks for the support; we are all in this together.

I'd like to point anyone interested more in exploring these kinds of topics in the direction of Mark Passio.

What (in your opinion) is our sovereignty based on??

The only true sovereignty that exists is that of one over their individual self, and that is based on the Natural Law of the universe, not any law that man can make. Authority doesn't truly exist as a force in this universe; it is claim that one person makes that another then agrees to. It is a contract created between two parties that has no bearing on anything outside of the words of the contract. A claim of sovereignty by an outside source over anything but that outside source's own individual self is a claim of authority that is not real or valid.

Thank you for admitting that sovereignty doesn't exist (as most think it does). Authority is merely a measure of either conquest or consent, and is arrived at through natural methods.

Yes, I agree with you 100% here. Your second sentence is superb in describing the nature of authority.

Been going on longer than you think. Read the diary entries of Rutherford B. Hayes from after his presidency. He knew in 1888 that we were already an oligarchy.

This is something I have been trying to discuss for some time on this thread, but people continue to want to ignore it.

You want to know what happened to your 4th Amendment? It's called the Third Party Doctrine, as well as multiple other governmental programs that you may want to look into. To anyone that was paying attention, this is nothing surprising. Please, people, educate yourselves about the very real things that are happening and quit getting distracted by stupid shit that doesn't matter. No offense to you, or anyone else, but for a bunch of people who believe in conspiracies some of you really do go out of your way to ignore the very real stuff happening right in front of you. Why? Because it's not a "conspiracy" anymore? It doesn't mean that it doesn't matter nor that you shouldn't know about it (as based on some of the responses I have gotten a lot of people don't know about this stuff, and that's terrifying in it's own right).

If you want to know what happened to your democracy, read any of the links I already posted here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5f02k6/governmental_control_of_the_internet_and_you_a/

Only just skimmed that, but it was terrifying. Very good article.

Its absolutely terrigfying and infuriating to me how many people are not aware of how pervasive and big this really is. Hell the UK isn't even trying to hide it anymore

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjux6vdyszQAhUp34MKHUa2DaMQFggfMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheintercept.com%2F2016%2F11%2F22%2Fipbill-uk-surveillance-snowden-parliament-approved%2F&usg=AFQjCNFYlJo6CpujR0QLCOwd7eVxwnaA-w

Mkultra and cointelpro and operation mockingbird

Don't worry Donald Trump will fix everything /s

You gave that up when you consented to citizenship under the 14th amendment sorry

They'll say that doesn't apply to foreigners.

Dude it's a republic not a democracy. You've been brainwashed.

The 4th amendment applies to the Gov't. The Gov't subcontracts to private corporations to which it doesn't apply.

The Balance of Powers is an ideal which is never reached.

The third and fifth amendment too...

For the third, the NSA is a branch of the military. Your phone is a quartered soldier in your pocket, reporting on all misdeeds.

For the 5th, the right to not incriminate or perjur yourself is not even an option because they are recording your voice, texts, etc.

That got sold up the river a long time ago.

You cant pair the first 2 questions with the last. Democracy never existed with the Constitution or in the balancing of "Powers". The only power that should exist is from We the People AKA The Republic of America. Republican forme of government. Not democracy.

Root word DEMO- to destroy, chaos .

DEMOcracy, DEMOlish, DEMOn, DEMOralize, etc.

Democracy shmemocracy.

The only thing that is happening here is they are seeking to do legally what they are already doing illegally.

It's a mere formality so they can spend less time on parallel construction, which has already been normalized and is regularly used with high success rates (remember silkroad?).

This. Still important

Yes but this will allow them to put more money into it which will just make it stronger

94 percent up is pretty high

The further they push their surveillance state the more they're digging their own grave where everything will be encrypted and then they won't be able to access anything.

95% of Americans don't know who assange is

That Russian spy? /s

Ohhh, I thought that was a movie. /s

Brokeback mountain?

Saving Private Putin

Gili.

Yep, because the MSM is a globalist/communist entity.

They don't need to know who Assange is.

Most Americans have no idea what encryption is. Farmers in Iowa or plumbers anywhere dont

Not really, they'll just approach companies in secret and go "hey so you can either 1) give us backdoor/private key access and you can't talk about it or 2) shut down business forever"

See: LavaBit

IF you're using companies to encrypt for you then you're placing your trust onto them. That's not what i meant. I meant things like end to end encryption which is open source without any backdoors, such as signal by openwhispersystems.

It's sad and strange how we once used to look at dystopian novels like 1984 as the stuff of nightmares when under our noses, they were quietly coming to life. Our constitutional rights are being circumvented as we speak.

Unless something happens to push it off, this will go into effect December 1.

The dystopian future is now

Probably where they get their ideas

Hey... I wrote about this 7 months ago...

I appreciate the kind words. Keep fighting.

I like how someone's arguing with you about why you felt the need to sticky that post. Wonder if they'll come around now that your hard work is sadly vindicated by what's just around the corner.

Well, I think the big issue was the appearance of Mods stickying our own posts.

Which we don't. And I abstain from votes on my own OP/OC as a rule.

Trying to look at porn in a private window? You must be planning to overthrow your superiors! And that makes you a turr'rist

I'm overthrowing something, but it ain't my superiors!

I'm a current lurker but I see you in almost every thread I check out kudos on the consistent activity

Well, VPN users will now officially be people of interest.

It also wants to treat anything that anonymizes internet users or hides their locations to be presumed acts of a guilty mind.

I use a VPN for a few reasons:

• When browsing the Internet at a coffee shop I use a VPN to encrypt my traffic so nobody can sniff it out (which is pretty easy to do using Wireshark).

• The only way to connect to my work's network is with a VPN.

• Sometimes I use Xfinity Wifi and I don't want the owner of that router sniffing my packets.

• I kid you not, but sometimes I get faster Internet speeds at home when using a VPN; so why wouldn't I use one?

This is just ludicrous. It's only a matter of time until we all have Internet IDs.

Edit: Just another example of being guilty before proven innocent.

So the doj has declared US law is now world law? The arrogance of these people.

think of it as a giant squid (credit to Taibbi)

One agency in one country forces global perspective on one matter, while another does it in another country's influential branch.

It's little more than globalists concerting their efforts. End game is people = controlled.

Kinda like this?

So this is why they killed Aaron Schwartz, he would have never have allowed this.

This, and exposing MIT pedophiles.

I'm sorry, how are the two connected?

He was allegedly the leader of Anonymous. But, also, most people don't know that Reddit was conceived as an extension of Aaron's work on RSS, which was supposed to be a completely decentralized communications system in which individual users published RSS feeds filled with enough syntax meta-information that they could be aggregated by the browser into a forum format.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web

They're going to attempt to go after the people researching pizzagate.

They're attacking when it comes to pizza gate and child pedophilia. We are close to winning this war.

why are the vote,s going from 60 to 67 back to 60 slowly to 65 then instant back to 60 over and over > ?

its at 158 as of right now.

this all will end up the same.
Submission of revolt.
viva la revolution or slavery ( in Europe and america its the same )

So black and white. So binarist. Duality limits what you see.

The US drug war helped push US law worldwide, with the rest adopting it. This is more or less, the same thing here. US jurisdiction worldwide with one warrant. They are creating laws to do this. This is huge. People must know what's up here.

Well, basically I see this as no different in the sense, of creating new laws, then pushing them through worldwide. That's what's going on here. The FBI has done this twice before related to a CP sting the article said, but this Rule 41 law will be for in perpetuity, if enacted. Just like the drug war laws were, which propagated to every corner of the globe, after US lead the charge.

So Obama hands over Internet addressing to the UN, and will sign off on making VPN's illegal on his way out the door. They really seem to be realizing the Internet got out of their control, and are trying to put the cat back into the bag.

Of course realistically speaking I doubt VPN's could hide you from the sophisticated kind of tracking the intelligence agencies were already using. Even TOR is supposed to have been compromised. So i'm not sure what this is other than maybe an intimidation tactic?

TOR has weaknesses, it's not some high and mighty best security of the internets technology that you make it out to be.

VPNs can very much hide you. They don't have some super secret government utility that can render a VPN useless. Now if they can force the provider of the VPN to turn over records and such, that's a different story.

Imagine that all people who attempt to become anonymous on the internet getting put onto an FBI list to become one of the "thousands of devices searchable with one warrant."

You mean like how they likely monitor inbound traffic and DNS requests to torproject.org?

i think most of us on this sub 'saw this coming'. question is: will people (we) fight it?

"To: Members of the Advisory Committee on Criminal Rules. From: American Civil Liberties Union. Date: April 4, 2014.

Re: ACLU Comment on the Proposed Amendment to Rule 41 Concerning Remote

Searches of Electronic Storage Media

The American Civil Liberties Union writes to offer its perspective on the proposed amendment to Rule 41 concerning remote searches of electronic storage media. The Rule 41 Subcommittee approved the proposal (over a dissenting vote) on March 12, 2014, and forwarded it to the Advisory Committee on Criminal Rules (“Advisory Committee”) in a March 17, 2014, memorandum. The proposal is on the agenda for consideration at the Advisory Committee’s April 7–8, 2014, public meeting.

The proposed amendment would significantly expand the government’s authority to conduct remote searches of electronic storage media. Those searches raise serious Fourth Amendment questions. It would also expand the government’s power to engage in computer hacking in the course of criminal investigations, including through the use of malware and other techniques that pose a risk to internet security and that raise Fourth Amendment and policy concerns. In light of these concerns, the ACLU recommends that the Advisory Committee exercise extreme caution before granting the government new authority to remotely search individuals’ electronic data."

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/aclu_comments_on_rule_41.pdf

This is serious.

'They' do this already though. Since 911 at least. Probably well before that. It's on the books, NDAA. 'They' can say you're a suspected "terrorist" and your done, you might as well be dead. This is just an elaboration. Truly, there is nothing new to worry about, it is just an update. There are no real consequences for the government or anyone with the resources, never have been. We are not sovereign, they are.

Theoretically any one with the knowledge can use the governments resources and networks for their own personal ends. Multiplying the danger. This could also be humanities saving grace.

You have to assume that someone is always watching to be safe. Not just while using technology, but in every aspect of our lives. 'They' want to do to the internet what cctv does for a theme park, and much more. Panopticon. All too soon they will try and do the same with your mind, in a far more literal way than being incessantly bombarded with mass media.

You're either with them or against them. There are no neutral parties or questions allowed. This is war. It looks different than we expected, but we are are all living in a war-zone, while also living in a mental prison. What passes for the little crumbs of freedom we have left is simply an intelligence gathering operation before a larger clamp down.

I can't get the link to work

....and that should be in the title.

It also wants to treat anything that anonymizes internet users or hides their locations to be presumed acts of a guilty mind. The stripping of jurisdictional limits not only grants the FBI worldwide access for digital seizures and searches, but also encourages it to go venue shopping for judicial rubber stamps.

As much power as the FBI might want to have, there are certain things which just aren't mathematically possible for them to do. They cannot always determine the identity of somebody using location protection software. VPNs, TOR networks, and other forms of protection. As a resident of California, they'd never be able to find me from a public location, because there's always a way to tunnel somewhere else to make it look like you're from somewhere else.

Also, I just spoofed you, I'm not from California. Not like it matters, you probably wouldn't be able to verify it. The FBI is going to try to collect heaps of data to try and pin point people to being criminals when they're probably not. Looking at big data, most of it is actually useless for developing any sort of plausible model.

Additionally, if we are expecting to grant the FBI worldwide access to seizures and somehow claim legality, it will only hurt online business, both by giving legal authority to an entity that shouldn't have international powers, as well as making the US open to other countries granting international powers to meddle in other countries internet activity as well.

It also opens up a lot of issues. If people control your online behavior, don't they also diminish your 4th amendment rights? Is that something we are forgetting in this day and age? we do have a bill of rights and we should damn well fight for it as Americans. Along with every other right the constitution grants us. Because, let's face it. If we don't like our government, it's up to us to change it.

I live to support and defend the constitution of the United States, and I will bear true alliegance to those sacred values that brought about its birth in the first place, to create a society of free thinkers where government wasn't oppresive, but rather a force to help people, not frighten them. No more big brother, no more 1984

What can we do?

X post r technology

Dont worry Guyz, Trumps gonna drain the swamp!!

MEME THE HECK OUT OF THIS!!!!! # STOPRULE41

Honestly, I don't see the FBI doing much about anything unless Hillary asks them to do something. They don't seem to have any power over the corruption in DC, maybe this will help, who knows?

Chances the OSU shooter was placed to distract attention away from this? I've seen articles about Rule 41 all over the place today (today is actually the first time I've seen them) so I can conclude that word is spreading quickly about it.

Is it likely TPTB needed to put everyone's attention elsewhere for the next few days while this slips by unnoticed?

Or am I just paranoid?

The first two things I did this morning after finding out about the OSU shooting: 1. Contacted my friends that go there to know theyre safe. 2. Lurked all conspiracy cables (literally jokingly) to see what could possibly be going on within the rest of the USA that may be important.

I truthfully thought "why am i putting on my tinfoil hat right now" until stumbling upon this. Classic diversion. All that will be talked about on MSM and most social media for the coming weeks will now be how 8 people were inured in yet another "mass shooting".

It's sad that one of my first responses was to think of the conspiratorial implications as well. Its a fucked up world

Is this something that has happened in the past? Would be an interesting topic to discuss if other controversial government happenings too place shortly after a mass shooting or other attack (hostage, bombing, etc).

Your paranoid.

Normally I would accept that comment. But coming from a Hillary supporter, I know that you aren't a frequent member of this sub and give your opinion on this matter no credibility.

I hate when people use 'Your' where it should be 'You're' .

There just uneducated.

*they're

Their just uneducated.

Eye sea wart ewe mien.

It is serious. The world is waking up, bit by bit, day by day. The next global conflict will be a true uprising against "the masters" because all talk will inevitably fail and they will push us to it finally. We just better make sure we finish the job and actually change our system of slavery.

Coincidental timing that a "mass shooting" at yet another college campus (the Ohio State University) occured this morning which will inevitably bring about "more important subject matter" on MSM regarding gun violence or not? BRB putting on my tinfoil hat.

It wasn't even a mass shooting, brah.

No it wasn't but they'll call it that and link him with some vague Facebook posts to ISIS.

they already do this, they're just trying to retroactively make it legal.

You should always assume "the internet" and any other network you connect to is compromised. Always have a usb dead man switch tied to your wrist and assume swat is going to jump through your window and tackle you to the floor at any moment. Run linux and encrypt your drives. Your adversaries always have the advantage of picking when and where to strike. This law doesn't change that.

[deleted]

Please edit it. It's not that easy to add an h on a mobile app

*thanks!

https://archive.is/gioH6

Thanks!

Is this NSFW?

Nope, just text

So what can we do as citizens to stop this law from coming into effect before the 1st of December? Who do I call? What do I say?

Nothing, as long as calling people or saying things is all you're prepared to do. The time for hyper-violent resistance is now. Either we blow up every data center being used to spy on us, or we consent to being ruled by tyrants.

I seriously doubt that acts of mass violence or terrorism, are the only answers to this problem...

It's not terrorism, it's self-defense against an immediate and existential threat. Mass surveillance is an immediate precursor and direct facilitator of every major genocide in the last century. Your nation was founded specifically to resist such tyranny, and that's why you have rules against mass surveillance in your constitution.

By putting you under mass surveillance, your government has betrayed you, and become your enemy. It has taken away from you a fundamental human right guaranteed in your nation's founding documents. If it took that human right away from you so easily and comfortably, what other rights is it prepared to take? Your right to free speech? Your right to keep breathing?

But sure, write a letter to your representatives. History is positively chock-full of references to tyrannical surveillance states brought down because someone wrote a letter. And while you debate the next passive course of action, it grows in power, making the chances of successful resistance less likely.

They got drones bruh. We're fucked wither way

It also wants to treat anything that anonymizes internet users or hides their locations to be presumed acts of a guilty mind.

Privacy? What's that?

How would this work if they access an anonymous computer that was in a foreign country? What if that foreign computer belonged to someone in a foreign government?

According to Hillary at least, such an act would be grounds for war.

Resist

wyden and franken are liberal i.e. bad guys, right?

Party does not denote good or bad. They're all beholden to the elite.

and trump does absolutely nothing about this gg

He doesn't get into office or have a say about anything until January 20th.

It's sad that one of my first responses was to think of the conspiratorial implications as well. Its a fucked up world

Well if the CIA says we're free then I guess we are...

IF you're using companies to encrypt for you then you're placing your trust onto them. That's not what i meant. I meant things like end to end encryption which is open source without any backdoors, such as signal by openwhispersystems.

Blackmail bonanza. They will be able to control anyone, no matter how rich or powerful they are.

Is this something that has happened in the past? Would be an interesting topic to discuss if other controversial government happenings too place shortly after a mass shooting or other attack (hostage, bombing, etc).

didnt texas used to vote democratic? lol