A message to the pizzagate believers:

I personally think it's almost certain that child abuse rings exist in Washington. We have numerous examples with conclusive evidence in other halls of power (the Roman Catholic Church, Sandusky, Savile, Dennis Hastert, various British MPs, etc.) We also have examples which are less conclusive, but still have eyewitness testimony (Franklin, Hollywood, and others). So this is not a case of me categorically denying that these despicable acts happen with some regularity. They do.

I'm also not denying that it's happening here. It very well might be. My intention is not to dissuade anyone from their belief, but to call into question the surety of that belief.

In pizzagate, there is no direct physical, testimonial, documentary, or other actionable evidence of a crime. There are not even any allegations of specific crimes against specific persons. That is not to say no crimes occurred, or that the circumstantial evidence we do have is suspicious to say the least, but we're not yet at a point where anything more can really be done in terms of carrying this forward.

That is also not to say don't look for new evidence. As much as I would be dismayed to find out that there were specific victims in this case, I would happily revise my position. You seem to rail against "skeptics," yet skepticism is precisely what needs to be maintained. Skepticism of the MSM claims, skepticism of the accused's rebuttals, and skepticism of the PG claims and theories themselves. If we lose our skepticism, we are only left with faith. And even if the broad strokes of PG are true, there are without a doubt false claims being put forward as well.

Finally, I'll end with a risk analysis. If we do nothing, and PG is true, then real children will continue to be hurt. This is perhaps the gravest consequence imaginable. Yet we should also consider what happens if PG does not turn out to be true, or even if it is true but never gets any more hard evidence than it has today. In that case, PG will be seen as vindictive and poorly executed witch hunt. The "victims" in the public eye will be the "falsely" accused. The next time (and there will be a next time) we catch wind of a child abuse ring among the powerful, the ghost of PG will be used to discredit the new investigation. It may be that those accusers are able to use PG to deflect criticism and continue their crimes. That is, in pursuing PG unsuccessfully, we may inadvertently help other abusers get away with abusing children.

TLDR; If we call wolf, we should be damn sure there is one. It's okay to say you see what look to be wolf prints, or follow those tracks to see if the wolf is there, but shouting from the rooftops that it's there is not a good strategy in the long run.

Edit: I made this into its own post

hear fucking hear

at least the nuts and trumplets havent completely killed reason and skepticism in this sub.

needs to be top comment

Critical thinking has seemed to be on a downturn in /r/conspiracy since pizzagate arrived. Glad to see some sanity still exists.

Critical thinking must come from a place of objectivity.

From OP's post:

Especially one that is actually backed by mountains of circumstantial evidence, that no rational person could overlook.

This is what I don't agree with. I like to consider myself fairly rational, but I am just not connecting these dots. I've seen the evidence presented so far, and to me it just seems like coincidence wrapped with a narrative that wants this to be true. I will be the first person to change my mind and admit I'm wrong if there is ever any empirical evidence presented.

What do you make of the emails themselves, do you believe they are actually talking about pizza and hankerchiefs?

I would like to hear Podesta's explanation, but as of now I don't feel it deserves a logical jump to child exploitation.

It seems that the pizza related handkerchief became the "Rosetta Stone" for the code words. The other emails about the walnut-sauce pasta and cheeses seem like they are legitimately speaking about real, albeit pretentious, cuisine.

I would think that if something as nefarious as what the allegations suggest was actually happening, that there would be more secure communication than official emails using real names.

These scandals began as a literal witch-hunt (Abramovic/Spirit Cooking) and shifted into child-trafficking, all without having any proof other than assumptions and disdain for these people's views on art, and their social/political stature.

I would definitely love to hear his explanation, and while he's at it, I would appreciate if he could expand on "Do you think I'll do better playing dominos on cheese than pasta?" also

As someone who doesn't necessarily believe the entire pizzagate narrative, but who has read most of the stuff and think there is at least something unsettling afoot... this isn't the line that will win people over.

He's stating the obvious. You can only lead a horse to water. You can't force it to drink. He's saying hey look there's like a hundred other examples out there yahoooo? Stop derailing. Because that's what you're ultimately doing.

It’s just a foodie making a humorous drugs allusion about the foods he likes. I drink a lot of Vanilla Coke, so it would be like me saying “Do you think I’ll do better at playing chess on RedBull than on Vanilla Coke?”

Except the codes he uses are linked the pedophilia codes? Just a foodie lol. What else am I gonna hear next? You people (if that's what you are) are getting lamer and easier to see through. You are just making an ass out of yourself.

You're the one who is making an ass out of yourself. Do you know where the so-called paedophilia codewords came from? Not the FBI or the police or even the urban dictionary; they came from a poster on 4chan! That's right, this whole theory is based on a troll on 4chan who made up some "codewords" and then sat back laughing as you pizzagaters swallowed this rubbish whole.

Lies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3560069/The-symbols-pedophiles-use-signal-sordid-sexual-preferences-social-media.html

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols

Wikileaks is a troll now too right? For the love of god just do some research before spreading your non-sense.

Honestly, you guys could be given directions to real hard evidence of a real conspiracy and you'd still miss it by going off on some stupid tangent.

Please try to keep up. I didn't say the symbols were made up, I said the codewords were the invention of some guy on 4chan. Got it? Codewords, not symbols.

Wikileaks released the Podesta emails on 7 October, then on 3 November a poster on 4chan said "Search for these possible doublespeak keywords in Wikleaks: 'hotdog' = boy, 'pizza' = girl, 'cheese' = little girl, 'pasta' = little boy, 'ice cream' = male prostitute, 'walnut' = person of colour, 'map' = semen, 'sauce' = orgy." And that's all it took. One anonymous guy says these are "possible" codewords, and you all went rushing off looking for them. Meanwhile, the poster sits back and laughs at how gullible you are. It's one of the greatest trolls ever!

Then you guys made an incredible leap and decided that because "pizza" was supposed to be a codeword, real pizza shops must be involved. And then someone thought that Besta Pizza used the symbol in the FBI document. Only the FBI document says the triangle spiral is blue and it shows it only as standalone, not as part of another design. But still you thought that the yellow triangles that form a stylised "B" on a stylised pice of pizza were the same.

You also completely ignored the fact that the meaning the symbol had (an individual's sexual preference) makes no sense in the context of a business logo and that there's no proof that the symbols were ever very widely used. As well, the document is nine years old and has been in the public domain for ages (the symbols apparently even featured on SVU), so why would some ultra elite well-organised paedophile ring still be using them anyway? But, hey, why let logic or common sense get in the way of pretending you're exposing some great crime?

Here's a final thought for you. According to the 4chan troll, "ice cream" means "male prostitute" and it returns 84 hits in the Podesta emails, so it must be a codeword, right? Then we have this mobile child snatching van and this shop that's clearly also a front for the paedophile ring. I mean, it was on 4chan, so it must be right, musn't it? After all, 4chan's not known for trolling is it?

In the email about Obama ordering dogs/pizzas from Chicago they talked about using the usual channels. I take that to mean people/other means of communicating logistics.

Please go back and check: That email wasn't even from the Podesta leaks, but from the Stratfor leaks years before. The people emailing there have zero connection to Podesta/Comet/Hillary/etc. No connection exists between that and the other emails.

The other emails about the walnut-sauce pasta and cheeses seem like they are legitimately speaking about real, albeit pretentious, cuisine.

Cuisine eh smarty pants. What about the other 100 references all over the emails mhmm? Or are we going to pretend those don't exist? You literally picked ONE friggen example out of the dozens and dozens on top of dozens that are everywhere like a dropped pizza sauce pan that splattered all over the kitchen. I'd like an explanation from you on all of them. Every single one. Then come say there's nothing there.

To begin with, I don't owe you an explanation for anything. I am simply imploring people to approach this situation from multiple perspectives. I'm sorry that you felt a need to become overly defensive because of my comment; it just bothers me that people are throwing out life-altering accusations based on circumstantial evidence.

The fact of the matter is there is too much to say that it's just a coincidence or say "it's a cusine enthusiast thing". There is way too much wrong with what has been found and its up to deniers to prove it wrong, without cherry picking please. Until they do their homework it gets tiresome hearing their excuses. WE DID OUR HOMEWORK. It's just not our fault it got shutdown here and keeps getting so all over the web. We can't spoon feed you anymore but the truth us out there. Just takes a couple of more clicks and digging and putting things together in your mind than before.

Now on the point you said about circumstantial evidence. You are everything wrong with what's about to happen. There is now disinformation put out on purpose to convince people the exact thing you're trying to spread. Soon there will be a fake dissinfo article or leak and you'll be the first to jump on it to accuse us.

If you had said in your comment: "guys there is obvsiously something going on and they are obviosuly silencing it so don't trust everything you see because missinformation will be used to discredit us." It would've been another story.

The ones I read sounded more like disguised money laundering speak, e.g. you can divvy up pizza and money, but divvying up a child doesn't make much sense.

He probably won't answer that question. Most of the people that deny PG has legitimacy tend to forget the most damning and odd pieces of information.

Funny how literally not a single MSM article will show the Instagram posts or Podesta Emails.

Can't be reporting fake news! /s

This is a great well thought out opinion. Just because one doesn't think that pizzagate has enough evidence to show that it is a actual phenomenon, that doesn't mean we don't believe and understand the history of Congressional page abuse, the things John DeCamp uncovered, as well as the dangers of the hysteria these events can cause, i.e. The Boys of Boise Scandal of the 50s.

I agree with this sentiment completely. I think there is enough evidence in general that child abuse occurs at all levels of society. I am not convinced however that super wealthy elites would gather at a shitty pizza joint to do their business. Especially when you consider how easy it would be to simply travel to a place with less oversight.

Pizzagate isn't solely about the location, it's about people using code words in emails, often pizza, that refer to something unknown.

Example 1:

The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus? They can send it if you want. I know you're busy, so feel free not to respond if it's not yours or you don't want it.

Example 2:

I think Obama spent about $65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long ago, assume we are using the same channels?

If we get the same "waitresses," I'm all for it!!!

To celebrate all you hot dogs out there. Aaric, you can participate as well!

No one writes like that, and that's code for something. Where people are reaching is filling in the food items for pedophilia.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/32795

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1223066_re-get-ready-for-chicago-hot-dog-friday-.html

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I mean, is it really that weird for them to talk about pizza? Have you had pizza? It's awesome.

In that context? It is beyond weird and literally makes 0 sense.

In some places it does look weird sure but just looking weird doesn't immediately mean it's a globe spanning satanic pedophile ring.

Well you have the sketchy emails thats just one piece.

Then you also have the wonderful Alefantis account.

Then you also have association with known pedophiles like Hastert and Epstein and Weiner.

Then you also have Media Matters covering up the child-trafficking scandal in Haiti.

Then you also have the Franklin Cover Up Scandal and a laundry list of high profile pedophiles that have been outed over the years.

Paints a particular picture if you ask me. There's a reason the media won't show the Instagram pictures.

Personally, I think it's probably drugs. That'd explain why they can't just come out and say it.

So let them fret over pizzagate I say. Until they show some honesty and integrity.

probably drugs. Interesting theory.

Some of those I've not seen before and are as dodgy as fuck tbh..

walks like a duck talks like a duck just might be a duck.

Incidentally I absolutely have used food terms with friends regarding drugs.

I don't want to be made out as a shill or sympathizer, but come on. How many inside jokes do you have with friends/colleagues that would not make sense out of context?

If I said to you "let's set out out-trinsic goals for the week", you wouldn't know what I was talking about, but the other teachers I work with would.

Like these "inside jokes". Yeah no, don't really have any inside jokes like that nor do I ever communicate in code when I send emails.

You don't know the context of these emails! And yet you assume they have something to do with pedophilia.

These emails are written to obfuscate the context. That's the point of talking in code. Even if they aren't about pedophilia, that much is obvious.

Correct, but that is based of evidence like this.

Pervert. /s

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Really not sure how I'm providing aid to criminals but hey, lock me up I guess

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Alpha 3.

ó

I am definitely NOT trolling. I'm skeptical of any claims until there's hard proof. Not immediately falling into the narrative does not make me a human race traitor.

This attitude is why people think this stuff is silly.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

Edit: Due to multiple and repeated personal attacks this warning is changed to a permanent ban.

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I do and I feed them pizza all the time.

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My dog does like eating leftovers

Outburst aside- that does raise an interesting question.

The white house doesn't allow outside catering.

Even if it did, why the hell would Obama of all people be the one to place the order?

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

Only the ones I kidnapped in my pizza parlor.

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I will, thank you. Have a nice day as well!

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Be sure to wear a white fedora and give me the secret hand signal from the crowd. I'll take care of the rest from there.

%%888ace

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~~32

32alpha

¿

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

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Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

No, a pizza restaurant is a pizza restaurant.

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Come on, I lean towards belief in pizzagate, but demolish them was obviously referring to the multiple cheeses.

Rule 6. Removed.

lol John Podesta is a "fucking pizza restaurant" interesting theory right there to be sure.

Chur boy's Twitter is blowin up right now.

>Example 1: > The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus? They can send it if you want. I know you're busy, so feel free not to respond if it's not yours or you don't want it.

I once left a scarf at a bar. They looked me up on facebook and sent me a message that they found it. Am I a pedophile?

>Example 2: >I think Obama spent about $65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long ago, assume we are using the same channels?

Obama is from Chicago. They are proud of their hot dogs. I am from Florida. We go bat shit over key lime pie. Does this make me a pedophile?

>If we get the same "waitresses," I'm all for it!!!

I'm a bartender. Regulars request to be seated with their favorite servers all the time. People like personal touches from familiar faces. Does that make all my regulars pedophiles?

>To celebrate all you hot dogs out there. Aaric, you can participate as well!

Dad jokes are corny. My friend's dad sips bud light and calls football players names like hamburger whenever they watch sports. Does this mean my friend's dad is a pedophile?

>N5o one writes like that, and that's code for something. Where people are reaching is filling in the food items for pedophiles

And yet the vast majority of people who've read the emails find them innoculous at best. There is simply nothing incriminating there, only the distorted projections of a fevered mind. Is everyone who sees nothing weird about these emails also a pedophile?

When the car found your hankerchief did they tell you it had a "map that seems pizza related"... returning a handkerchief isn't the mysterious or odd part of that sentence... also before you start flying at me saying other parts of pizza gate aren't real just know I don't really believe the whole theory either, I just think that sentence is very odd, and your explanation didn't actually address the issue of the code words...

The code words don't really address "map that seems pizza related" either, because the original email was from a random realtor, is she in the conspiracy? and the one with the map part, why would she say "the realtor says they have your semen stained blackmail fodder, if you dont want it back or are too busy dont bother replying" then podesta says "nah, you can keep my semen stained blackmail fodder, I don't need it"

Found another member of the Antinous Fan Club.

because the original email was from a random realtor,

Source?

Kathryn Tate, its in the email chain. Trying to explain her involvement makes the conspiracy more complicated and convoluted, so most people leave it out and just focus on the weird "pizza related map" comment from after.

Isn't Antinous the most common figure in greek sculpture because so many of him were commissioned by hadrian?

Wasn't Antinous Hadrian's child lover? Interesting choice when you consider the rest of the content.

I'll admit though that Susan Handler Kathryn Tate exchange makes it more convoluted, but how do we know exactly who these people are?

I believe antinous was 14 at the time(and the bust in the profile picture is of him as an adult), not really the same kind of pedo everyone is talking about here, plus you'd think if he was doing it specifically because he's a pedo he would pick hadrian, not antinous. But apparently antinous is a gay icon(I am not in that scene so I don't say it firsthand) ,oscar wilde wrote about him etc. We only know who they are from the real emails, as much as we know that the other emails are podesta, I've seen a little bit about who she is, and I haven't seen anyone present evidence shes anything else.

He was 13. What a coincidence that he chose one of the most prominent historical examples of legitimate pederasty for his nasty Instagram page.

Check out Pedoesta's Twitter no ones buying the bs.

The weird part is the "pizza related map"... there is no context in which that makes any sense. The rest are not anywhere near as strange. Conspiracy theories always have many "streches" but some things raise real questions. Please stop using absolutes to discredit people's findings, you are most likely not a pedophile...but I'm not going to say absolutely, cause I don't know.

Which makes more objective sense to you?

Option 1. This is an inside joke between two friends referencing John's like for pizza, probably hinting that they should go get some pizza later.

Option 2: Pizza is secret code word for an underground child sex ring map that John happened to be carrying around at a realtor's house and was careless enough to leave there, at which point his colleague who is in on the pedophile conspiracy decides to casually email John and ask him if he would like his incriminating pizza map of child pornography back, or if not they can just send it to him later or forget the whole thing so just let her know, whatevz.

Neither of those options make any sense at all to me, but there you go again with the absolutes...why does it have to be one or the other? Obviously I am just guessing, as we don't know the truth, but I'm not going to assume it's an "inside joke" about getting pizza because to me that is the least likely possibility. If that was the case why would podesta not just come out and answer the questions regarding this, rather than just hoping it goes away with enough discrediting.

Edit: removed inaccurate info

Ah I see. The female realtor is peddling these hypothetical children as sex slaves and sending out coded emails to arrange sadistic child rape sessions. Gotcha.

OK bud, obviously you have made up your mind about this, I am still open to more information. After reviewing your posts you are clearly vehemently opposed to Trump, so you may have some extra incentive to discredit the "fake news" from the "alt-right"...but there are many of us, who wish this would of been uncovered about Trump himself, including myself. I bet if it was you wouldn't be so opposed to the concept of it.

Edit: words are hard

Well Trump's a con man and a fucking moron, what do you expect? Of course I oppose him. What does that have to do with the fact that there is no evidence of child abuse anywhere having taken place in regards to these emails? Where are the victims??

As to your other point, you know Trump was accused by an underage girl of rape right? Also he has connections to the infamous Epstein of Lolita island. Am I over here in r/conspiracy pleading my case that he must be in on the high level pedophile network? Not in any serious way. Why do you think that is? There has been no tangible evidence that rises to a reasonable standard of incrimination. But fuck, at least he has an accuser. Where are the actual pizzagate victims? The whole thing is a house of flimsy cards with zero basis in reality.

I'll give you that there is really no factual evidence, only speculation, but I just wish he would address the questions regarding his emails rather than letting the public come to their own conclusions. Another very interesting excerpt from the wiki leaks emails I would like more clarity on is "Do you think I'll do better playing dominos on cheese than pasta?"...wtf does that even mean 🤔

Yeah I can see how that would bug you that he hasn't addressed this publicly. It's kind of a big deal at this point. But I can only speculate that he doesn't want to draw any more attention to the fact that people are accusing him of being a pedophile than is absolutely necessary. I mean I can't really blame the guy for that.

The real estate agent is Kathryn Tate Kendall from Kendall Real Estate. She's the one who originally sent the email to Podesta's associate about finding the handkerchief and she in turn emailed Podesta about it.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30613

This email was written by some grandfather named Herb thanking John for a Christmas gift of a box of assorted cheeses. The wording is funky, I agree, but if old people writing unintelligible emails is a crime we had better lock up my mom and half of facebook. I mean, unless the accusation is that this grandpa's thankyou note is evidence of his deep ties to child sex trafficking, in which case I personally am going to require a hell of a lot more evidence.

Granted, I did do some research into the realtor just now and do believe she is real. I am starting to think the hankerchief did exist also after looking into that I found satanists uses hankerchiefs during the "rituals" so it may of possibly been an inside joke about that being used previously. Here's to hoping for more information to clear this up one way or the other! Thanks for not attacking and having a real conversation.

Ditto friend :)

Found another member of the Antinous Fan Club.

And yet the vast majority of people who've read the emails find them innoculous at best. There is simply nothing incriminating there, only the distorted projections of a fevered mind. Is everyone who sees nothing weird about these emails also a pedophile?

Have you seen Podesta's Twitter?

Wasn't there two whole episodes of MASH about the characters flying in Ribs from Chicago and Hot Dogs from Tony's Paco's in Toledo in the 70's?

I also know of a bank president who would fly a helicopter from Delaware to Newark NJ and have a limo meet the helo and drive someone to pick up fresh bread from a particular bakery there and then drive back to the airport and the helicopter would fly back to Delaware. All for a few dozen rolls.

Just saying it's not absurd that someone would cater a party for a big party and have it catered by a restaurant that they liked.

I think its more likely this person from stratfor isn't privy to this 65k hotdog party theres no evidence of, and was instead making a joke

What they're making a joke about is this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168940/Obamas-fly-chef-860-miles-White-House--just-make-pizza.html

Somehow, the crack internet investigation team has missed that. Maybe because they're not interested in trying to falsify their imagination.

How many hot dogs can one acquire with $65,000?

Probably a lot. I'm not expert on corporate catering/large scale events, but for someone to come out to DC from Chicago, I would assume they would factor in closing their business for 2-3 days, to allow travel time and set up for their cooks, costs to rent a space to prepare the food(While I'm sure the White House has a large kitchen that can handle things like banquets, cooking things like pizzas takes time and large pizza ovens, so they may have even rented a local pizza place for the day to utilize their ovens, and the cost of that place being out of business for a day would factor in), etc...

Since it's Tax-Payer money, double the price, because tax payer money isn't "real" and can be spent willy nilly.

I would assume

Ok gotcha thanks for the assumption.

If you're being snarky here, aren't you making a bigger assumption that this must be code for child trafficking?

I just asked how many hotdogs you can acquire for $65,000.

I would say though, that when you have hard ties to multiple convicted pedophiles and child-traffickers it's not exactly a stretch to think that the code is pedophile/child-trafficking related.

While this guy has no clue what was involved in flying in 65 g's worth of hot dogs.

The $65,000 on only hot dogs only makes sense if you read the email as them meaning that money was spent just on hot dogs. Let's assume for a moment that the email was literally just talking about catering a party: why would they only give the itemized price for the food? That's not the important number, the important number is the total cost of the party, and he's given a pretty good set of expense that would make 65K not seem unreasonable.

and he's given a pretty good set of expense that would make 65K not seem unreasonable.

Based on an uninformed assumption so what does it matter? How many people were at the party? Did they literally fly in a pizza and a hot dog restaurant from Chicago to set up shop and cater the party? Did they just fly in the pizza/hot dogs?

The email is so vague none of us have any idea if the $65,000 is reasonable or not. On the surface it sounds absurd.

Based on an uninformed assumption so what does it matter?

Is assuming it's child trafficking not an uninformed assumption?

Podesta has hard ties to not just convicted child-traffickers, but convicted pedophiles as well.

Serious question, why is stratfor always included with pizzagate emails? What links these people in texas with the dc pedophilia ring around comet ping pong, other than that they use food terms and are in a wikileak

And when you present evidence people downvote. "Weird".

"Evidence"

-Using codewords in emails

-$65k is a lot of money. Whatever they're talking about is expensive. Drugs, guns, humans, or bribes.

-pedophile symbolism outside of the resteraunts and on various social media accounts

-illustrations of boys in bondage at Podestas home

-hoetards, killrooms, etc on social media

The code words alone don't make me think 'pedophile'. The code words in addition to the other details do.

This is analyzing a viewpoint, rather than just spouting opinion. /r/conspiracy isn't a home for opinions, but rather THIS sort of analyzing of information and searching for further evidence.

Pizzagate in general was sort of founded on the presumption of continuing evidence. It was as much of an examination of what we knew as it was of what we were likely soon to know more clearly. When Assange mentioned a 3rd wave of evidence but never delivered, pizzagate had to change gears as we were cut off from further evidence to examine from our main source.

I believe our goal should be to continue to build a case and amass evidence, while maintaining a reasonable neutrality towards accusations and sensationalism. It's not easy to do, and hype/narrative are always necessary to mainstream an idea - so I'm not saying those things are bad, but they can't be our focus here.

Hopefully we will continue to develop the evidence, discuss and analyze, and make the shills that are so obviously trying to divide the skeptics against each other expose themselves. There is no division in our aim (exposing truth wherever it is) so we should not allow division in our ranks.

When you talk about the cost of being potentially wrong about PG, yes I agree there is a cost, but it's a cost that will be contrived by the MSM regardless of the facts, and if we research this with their reaction in mind we are becoming reactionary and a little more controllable. We are moving forward a public investigation and allowing the media to manipulate that is foolish imo.

All in all we're researching into more obscure channels with seemingly less direct connections to the Podesta thread that was so heavily evidenced in the leaked emails. I believe we should continue all threads, but ultimately feel the Podesta thread is very linked to Assange and whatever circumstances surround him promising more evidence, but not providing it.

Strap in, there is more developing (particularly with JA). I don't think we're ready to wrap this up yet.

We are moving forward a public investigation and allowing the media to manipulate that is foolish imo.

I do agree. My point was not so much that we should stop looking because of potential media backlash or spin, but like you said "[maintain] a reasonable neutrality towards accusations and sensationalism." It's that sensationalism that will end up painting us in a bad light, and make "normal" people less likely to believe the claims in the future.

A message to the pizzagate believers:

Well thought out analysis that does not marginalize the platform while also explaining why it could make sense that it is not true.

You're a diamond in the rough, thanks for your contribution. I certainly lean more to the "true" side of things but I never enter a conversation assuming I'm already right and what you've said seems to reflect this philosophy.

This is a society that bombs the shit out of innocent people everyday, then get's touchy about 'witch hunts. Get the fuck out of my sub you scum.

This is classic narrowing of the narrative. It is like a straw man argument.

#pizzagate = #pedogate...not simply one pizza shop.

If the narrative's been narrowed, it was not done by me. I'm not denying that these rings exist in Washington; that was the first line of my comment. Nor do I deny that Podesta or CPP are involved; I'm just skeptical that the evidence point to that.

Most PG believers (that I've seen) are making the narrow claim that Podesta/CPP are involved due to the emails and the social media pictures. That's fine, and it may turn out to be true. Some are also making the broader claim that it's part of a much bigger ring. But pizzagate itself is a narrow claim. If you want to try to expose the broader Washington pedo ring(s), you're probably better off not using the pizzagate hashtag, or making it explicit what you're talking about.

You are narrowing, like the media, pizzagate to only include a pizza shop, Podesta, and some theories of a pedo ring.

Pizzagate is a very broad topic of pedophile rings and should be #pedogate. Pizzagate broke the ring of Twitter CP traders, which Twitter protected. Pizzagate involves years of Jeffery Epstein association with Trump and the Clintons.

It is easy to strawman #pizzagate when you narrow what it is about to be just a pizza shop and a few emails with Podesta.

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I'm a victim and I agree with them. If pizzagate is actually real then people like you are hurting the investigation calling anyone who wants to be careful with this sympathizers and that makes me fucking sick. The fact that you can't use your head for one minute to understand that you are playing right into their games is just laughable. They will discredit you easily using your own brain against you. Question everything or get used.

Also, learn what a troll is. A troll is not "someone I disagree with" ffs. You are using the same bs tactics CTR has used.

[deleted]

Do you have any evidence that obama actually did that? Also, since you find the amount of money so suspicious, do you really think a party catering to pedophiles supplying live children, would only cost 65k?

[deleted]

Just because its in someones email(from stratfor in texas, not the dnc or podesta) doesn't make it true. If someone at stratfor had said "I think obama faked the moon landing, are we getting the same production company?" it would not mean obama faked the moon landing. I think it looks like a joke the person made about their company's chicago style hot dog day, using obama as the butt because he is from chicago(mentioning it was 65,000 in taxpayer money makes it sound more like a joke as well) and then asking if they are using the same channels as the ridiculous claim he just made, making fun of what will probably be a crappy hot dog day (this is also like the other stratfor email talking about sharing one slice of pizza amoung 20 people, making fun of their pizza day, as someone who works in a office i understand that humor well).

I'm just not understanding, and noone has ever made a good case for, why these emails from stratfor get thrown in with all the others as if they were from podesta himself.

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Can you explain what these emails mean? (These are few examples of many coded emails found in Wikileaks): https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55433 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30613 If not how would you try to?

I don't see what people are having difficulty with here.

1) Map handkerchiefs are literally a thing. Did anyone even think to look into this? That's just one example, but there are dozens of them out there. This and this and many others. Map scarves are a thing, too. Search for yourself. It's astonishing that no one has.

2) This is one of the more absurd ones that keeps coming up. The people who cite it, I often wonder if they've ever had a social life. It's literally just a mom saying, 'The pool will be heated and my kids will for sure be in it causing a ruckus, so feel free to use the pool as well.' Giving the ages is typical, that way other guests know what to expect, whether their own kids will have peers to play with, etc. You know what's truly troubling? That people could read something sinister into that.

3) The first part is pretty obviously talking about a Christmas gift. Again, interpreting it any other way is far, far more troubling than the content. The PS is weird and doesn't appear to make sense without further context, but to jump from "I don't know what they're talking about" to "this pizza joint in DC is trafficking children" is quite a leap. It's an out of context aside.

Here's the thing:

As someone else has already pointed out, there are no victims that have come forward, no witnesses that have come forward, and no allegations of any specific crime. Nothing specific whatsoever.

It's not even like being falsely accused of rape. In those instances, at least there is a supposed victim.

Here, there isn't even that.

Yup. A lot of people here are playing investigator and are so bad at it. Remember when some people were freaking out because they didn't know what a phone number extension was?

"Oh... They signed it x3864! Surely that means something sinister! "

It makes me wonder if they ever used a phone before its so ridiculous. It also shows they are in way over their head. If there is something to this whole thing, its people like this who are actively hurting it. I'd wonder if it was on purpose but I've been on this earth long enough to know people are actually this stupid.

No one has difficulty with a map handkerchief. Post a link to a pizza map handkerchief and people will calm down.

Second email is a bit of a stretch but in the context of other stuff it is a little odd to guarantee guests that the kids will be in the pool as "entertainment" while advising people to wear sweaters. Yea the pool is heated but enough there to ask the question.

Third email takes a pretty big leap to connect to pedo activity IMO.

and people will calm down.

Hah! Come on, you and I both know that's not true.

As for the second email, perhaps you're not friends with many parents of young kids - totally understandable if that's the case - but saying your kids will entertain people or that people will be entertained by them is pretty common. You go to a BBQ or something that is mostly adults, the kids are romping around, referring to them as "the entertainment" or something like that is not unusual.

I'm not sure what you mean about the sweater part. They said it was going to be in the lower 60s and they plan to hang outdoors, so bring appropriate clothes. That's so innocuous and normal, I don't at all understand what you're seeing in it.

I don't know how you got the impression that /u/celinehagbard doesn't believe it's worth investigating or that there isn't evidence. The point was that there isn't any prosecutable evidence. From what I've read, with specific regard to pizzagate, I agree with /u/celinehagbard.

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It doesn't help that the narrative here is Clinton is bad and Trump is good. I'm actually amazed there is less resistance on this sub to what Trump has been doing, like putting together the richest administration in modern history. Russians involvement in the election or not, Trump is already not holding his end of the bargain on what he campaigned for (draining the swamp) if you think that the corporate interests and 'globalists' in the Obama administration was a swamp before, it's looking a lot more like Chernobyl now.

Seriously. Trump just picked a Goldman Sachs VIP as Secretary of the Treasury. He made his fortune by defrauding investors. He's not our salvation, he's as big a part of the problem as any DC insider. It's a joke how badly people are playing into his rhetoric and ignoring every single thing he does.

If you want PG to be taken seriously, I would also avoid:

• 80's style satanic worship panic

• Denying climate change

• Overt racism and/or misogyny

• Calling people "lib-tard" and other stuff that shows you are still stuck in the my-team-vs-your-team thinking (and also alienates nearly half the people who may be reading your post)

• Aliens/shape-shifters/etc.

I haven't seen much of the last, but the other four are so prevalent with PG, they seem to be the leading motives to me, not any interest in actually protecting children or uncovering truth.

Aliens/shape-shifters/etc.

Why do people always bring this up? Literally NO ONE talks about this on r/conspiracy.

I brought it up because the thread on /r/conspiracy that I read just before this one was talking about it. Something about a secret alien base in Antarctica. But mainly it was a kind of "this is where we're headed" kind of thing, and I qualified it as such right after. Basically, the things people are saying recently make them look as credible as the lizard-people theorists.

Basically, the things people are saying recently make them look as credible as the lizard-people theorists.

There is a difference between theorizing about ancient alien civilizations and pushing the lizard/reptilian nonsense. Anyone who understands math and the universe can tell you the high likelihood of aliens existing and possibly coming to visit earth or being here in the past.

I've been here since the very beginning of r/conspiracy and I can tell you definitively that the only times lizards/reptilians are brought up are in theoretical or pejorative examples. The whole "reptilians are shapeshifters that rule everything" meme is pure disinfo GARBAGE...and is very VERY rare on this sub.

So why mention it when it only exists as a meme?

It comes up for sure. Maybe not a ton anymore but it still comes up. I found these two posts in 10 seconds of searching.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4e5uev/best_evidence_of_alien_shapeshifter/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2fqi1o/serious_question_where_does_the_reptilian/

Wow, two posts out of tens of thousands over the years.

You do know that there are paid shills here right?

I've been here since r/conspiracy had less than 20k subs, lizard people or aliens have never been seriously discussed here -- ever.

Not true but whatever. I don't have time to find all the posts and show them to you. I found those in 10 seconds of searching.

Yeah yeah shills shills shills. Anyone who believes other than yourself is a shill. I get it. Boring.

Not true but whatever. I don't have time to find all the posts and show them to you. I found those in 10 seconds of searching.

My point is that the percentage is minuscule to say the least. Why bother mentioning examples that occur less than .01% of the time?

Yeah yeah shills shills shills. Anyone who believes other than yourself is a shill. I get it. Boring.

I didn't say that. What I meant to imply is that it's pointless to bring up conspiracies that virtually no one believes in -- so few people that the only ones fronting such things are probably shills intentionally spreading disinformation.

Too many people are getting lost in the pizza sauce

lost in the pizza sauce

I'm stealing that. :) Unless you say I can't.

Use it. Abuse it. Just be sure to cite me.

Yes yes yes this just articulates all my frustrations. Mentioning these things detracts from the facts at hand.

And even as he hires oil tycoons and established GOP players as cabinet members people think he's our salvation from the world order. Wake up people.

I heard something I about this the other day that I really liked, He drained the swamp, but kept the gators.

i prefer: instead of draining the swamp, he's stocking the pond

He moved on the swamp like a bitch.

MAGA = Hope & Change for the right.

Trump is already not holding his end of the bargain on what he campaigned for (draining the swamp)

What I always thought he was referencing with that catchphrase was installing congressional term limits. Maybe I missed something.

enemy of my enemy is my friend. T_D can be useful in propagating information to the masses... but yes, this sub is a little too eager to prop him up as a saviour sometimes, but either way we won't know the real deal til his inauguration and I'd expect a few fireworks between now and then.

QUICK deflect to trump is bad pizzagate was mentioned!!

QUICK deflect to pizzagate trump is bad was mentioned!!

So much more accurate

Lmao pizzagate was the topic of the post! What an idiot haha

What if the mods just auto deleted words like rnc, dnc trump and hillary/clinton? So tired of them being mentioned just to start fruitless discussions. Yes we hate Clinton, yes Trump is a narcisistic asshole. There, done and done. Lets get on to things that are important.

Well I gotta say I'm willing to take a chance on Trump. Let's see what he does when he's in office. Who knows what game he's playing?

Imagine you just ran a successful campaign and are elected president. How do you go about taking out TPTB? JFK style or Trump style?

Have you seen trumps cabinet? ? Trump is shit bro

• Goldman Sachs and Soros employee as Secretary of Treasury

• Climate change denier as head of EPA

• Publicly pro-war-on-drugs crusader as Attorney General

• A billionaire tycoon as Secretary of Commerce

• A Secretary of Labor who says we should ship jobs overseas if we can't replace workers with robots, so we shouldn't have to pay people a livable wage

• A Secretary of Education who said “church, which ought to be, in our view, far more central to the life of the community, has been displaced by the public school as the center for activity,” and that America's school system should be used to “advance God’s kingdom.”

• THE FUCKING CEO OF EXXON MOBILE as Secretary of State

• THE FUCKING HEAD OF THE NSA AND FORMER HEAD OF THE CIA as Director of National Intelligence.

• A George Bush level corporate oil man as Secretary of Energy - another climate change denier (dealing with the US's nuclear weapons is actually the main job of the SoE, though)

among others.

Didn't even know about the head of intelligence being fucking nsa. Fuck everyone who still defends trump and fuck the dnc for blocking any non shit candidates

I mean, he's definitely got the experience. It's just that for someone who is supposedly here to turn DC on it's head, he sure is doing the opposite of that. I just can't fathom why people believe his words and ignore his actions that are the direct opposite.

Dude. What's he going to do? Draft a new gov of newbies? I hate the existing situation but even I realize that some people will need to be retained.

He definitely has better choices that were ignored man. I understand it's a weird situation but he absolutely chose the worst possible people it feels like

Meet the new boss...

Fucking worse then the old boss.

Yeah I get all that.

But here you are saying climate change is real... It's not. So why are you using that as a reason?

Taking out tptb by fusing with tptb? That's what Trump is doing by choosing his tptb cabinet.

Is he? I'm leaning towards the internal coup explanation. The DNC & Podesta leaks, CIA claiming Russia hacked the election... Why would the CIA not want Trump if he was going to play the game?

Im surprised to see this kind of thinking in this sub. How about, that's what they want you to think? I mean, theyve been concocting this "fake news" approach since like april to pass that new internet legislation, it's not a recent thing. They have scores of sociologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists working for them. They have the peasants' psyche mapped out since before mkultra, and you think you have them all figured out? Please.

Every time I post anything saying I'm choosing to hope, everyone jumps down my throat. No one makes an effort to identify.

I fully expect to be disappointed, heart broken, whatever you call it. Right now I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a new JFK. JFK wasn't all that great as a candidate, only after when you realized why he got whacked do you realize that even a mobster's son can become a hero.

I thought we were past that hope and change stage by now. A new JFK in Trump? Well, that's new.

This. CIA hates him, they literally are the TPTB. If they hate him then there must be something they dont want him doing. Not to mention trying to flip electors, they seem scared. Haven't seen that before in my life. I like it.

The CIA HATES him!

Vote Trump to know why!

Sounds like a sales pitch.

Russia helped him

click here to find out why!

-buzzfeed

Who knows what game he's playing?

It's pretty easy to see what game he's playing. It goes like this:

1. Play on people's people's fears and biases by saying a bunch of stuff that sounds like what they want to hear.

2. Do whatever you want in order to get more money, power, and fame for yourself; while screwing over anyone who gets in the way.

3. Laugh at the idiots who think you are here to help them and not yourself.

4 - Help the global elites.

Dude, you sound JUST like the Democrats after Obama got elected and immediately started dismissing everything he said he'd do. Remember the excuse of "oh, Barack is just giving them enough rope to hang themselves with!"?

That's you right now.

In what world is he taking out TPTB?

He IS TPTB.

Genuine question: What does TPTB mean and who or what is TPTB?

TPTB is an acronym for the powers that be. It's deliberately vague because defining those individuals is difficult. This is likely not an accident, the puppeteers would not want to be known.

Ah, gotcha!

I think you're right about that. It seems to be because this particular appearance of the pedophile ring has included some players in the DNC. Focusing on those people and Comet Pizza exclusively is a detriment. This has been going on for decades across the world.

It's why the MSM can push the anti alt right narrative so hard. You never hear about anybody but Clinton Podesta, and Alefantis unless you actually go digging yourself. There's leads all over the place, but people get stuck regurgitating the same shit that's already been said before.

If you mention Trump's association with Epstein and his knowledge of, and possible participation in, Ep's love for underage girls you'll get downvoted to hell.

You sure will. They aren't interested in truth.

Indeed you will.

I'll bite can you start me on the trail?

I only have a couple of data points. For one there's the lawsuit alleging that Trump raped a 13 year old at one of Epstein's parties. That one continually gets discounted as an election conspiracy for various reasons, but even so that doesn't mean it should be discounted entirely. The there's the quote from Trump about Epstein's taste in women that in light of the pedophilia stuff makes it seem like Trump was aware of Epstein's enjoyment of underage women.

I won't provide any links, but those two data points are a start. Googling either one will give you a bunch of results due to the election, and the results will contain articles from a lot of sources(most biased one way or the other) so it's up to you to filter through it and choose what to believe.

Yeah, you're right. I think part of that is because it certainly started getting traction on the_donald and the chans, but I'm a liberal myself. It's certainly not exclusive to a party. Once the bigger picture comes into focus, it's truly staggering.

If someone has the time, it may be worth creating a list of links to, or information about, specific incidences of pedophiles in positions of influence or power.

It might add some perspective to the overall issue.

I've been using this: http://pedocrats.com/mountain/

It is a reposting of that thread from 3 years ago on this sub with active links included.

Thank you for that link.

anti-Cunton

terms like that are part of the reason no one takes you guys seriously.

Fuck the ruling class. Fuck $hillary and Podesta both. Fuck the false two-party narrative. But Pizzagate is still a retarded fantasy that makes as much sense as thinking a guy who made a billion dollars by defrauding investors is here to help us little guys.

Pizzagate may or may not be real, but I'd like to add to your comment with a message to all of the community: If we are to be taken seriously we must act as professionally and courteously as possible and, more importantly, downvote and comment on those who do not. The anonymous and manipulable aspect of reddit makes it easy to discredit any group by pretending to be its members, so our job is to make ourselves as respectful as possible so uninformed folks can take this issue seriously. We're all pretty aware of the propaganda-filled world we were all born into, so let's use our knowledge of the manufactured biases of the masses to prevent ourselves from being ignored outright by unnecessarily insulting the people and groups they've been programmed to defend.

There are plenty of shills, but we have to remember that there are even more people who blindly parrot those shills, and they are not bad people. Be nice, don't lose your cool, and stay on topic.

You realize how hypocritical you are being by calling her Shillary, right?

I don't think I am, but I see where you are coming from.

"$hillary" is due to CTR, which is a pretty well known attempt at paying people to shill for her. So in my mind, it's deserved. But just calling her a cunt seems like a low blow. But yeah, maybe it is kind of hypocritical. Name calling isn't a very high class move no matter what. Cunt just sounds like a lot meaner thing to say, and it isn't really a form of satire like I think $hillary is. I should probably take my own advice and stick to proper names.

But Pizzagate is still a retarded fantasy that makes as much sense

Found another member of the Antinous fan club.

"Let's make this not about politics even though I called Clinton a cunt in my comment."

Yeah, it's exactly that kind of shit that turned me away from this stuff to begin with. Using less derogatory terms and being more professional when discussing Pizzagate, making it more of a bi-partisan issue, will go further in making sure people actually listen to your points.

Clinton's a cunt and Trump's a fuckwad. I want no part of a movement that has bi-partisan support, but only one that goes after both parties.

I had a Trump supporter here tell others, and myself, that he would give Trump a pass if he molested children as long as he brought others to justice. And no, he wasn't trolling. When you have delusional people incapable of taking a step back, or wanting to push a certain narrative for their own gain, then this is what you get.

I want to believe, I really do, but so far I have only seen circumstantial evidence and am surprised there is no true smoking gun yet.

(RIP inbox, please don't hate)

I could not agree more!

Copy paste incoming:

For those of you are horrified and sick just realizing the worldwide problem with slavery and sexual abuse, who feel like they're hitting walls investigating pizzagate, who want to know for sure their time and energy is being spent helping victims:

Go get certified to work with victims of human trafficking/sexual abuse, and volunteer. It's different in each state but often involves an investment of money and at least 40 hours (often weekends) just to get trained, and then usually a minimum commitment of 6 months to a year of unpaid volunteering. There are also many opportunities where you don't work directly with victims.

It will be fulfilling but there won't be prestige or glory. It's donating toiletries, sorting through piles of donations, babysitting while the victims are getting counseling/seeing doctors/going to court, cleaning up the shelters, answering 24 hour hotlines, rushing out in the middle of the night to go to a hospital and being there for support as they talk to doctors or police for the first (or fifth time). Examples of volunteer duties
Note: at least in California you may volunteer indirectly helping victims of sexual assault and domestic violence, but to work directly with the victims you must be certified (40 hour training). There are still a number of ways you can help without that training though.

Here's an example of a training that's for victims of sexual assault but this particular organization ends up serving many victims of sex trafficking, a huge problem in California (Anaheim, near Disneyland is a hot bed of trafficking). They work closely with the Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force.

Here are some other sites/links:

Department of State 2016 Trafficking in Persons Report
End Slavery Now
National Human Trafficking Hotline
Dream Center HT Volunteer Program
Other resources for educating and fighting human trafficking. Realize that you may be reinforcing systems of abuse and slavery by the products you consume (the stuff you buy, the porn you watch, etc.)

You won't be taking down a huge shadownetwork of corrupt elites (Hey, you can still investigate and educate on pizzagate if you want) but you'll be able to help real life people who need it now.

You mean actually doing something productive to fight child trafficking instead of sitting behind a keyboard and rant on every echo chamber I can find? I-I would, but muh diabeetus and thyroid condishun...

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When you have to get personal and resort to calling out account stats, you already lost. You're grasping at straws now.

I don't bother because I already know what talking to you will be like. It's a one sided conversation.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

I would normally engage in meaningful conversation but the accounts with the same type of activity as who I replied to usually end up with me talking to a brick wall, the conversation getting nowhere, and personal attacks directed towards me. Which, I might add, are never punished nor warned.

Although I can't expect mods to do/see everything, it's annoying to see brand new accounts calling people delusional(Or any variation of such)/constant sarcasm without any warnings on those who did so.

As a suggestion, maybe you(mod team) could setup some sort of bot that notifies you when an account under 1 month old makes a post/comment in conspiracy so you can check it for these personal attacks.

Note: Not trying to be rude here, just stating what I've seen & a fairly easy suggestion.

There are tons of comments we mods never see if they don't get reported. If you see other users violating any of our rules then please do report those comments and they will be dealt with.

As if volunteering will stop the flow of victims.

It won't hurt though. People can investigate pizzagate AND volunteer.

This is a great post. Thank you. I'm going to look into this.

You're welcome. I hope pizzagate really does open people's eyes to the huge problem of abuse in general (from people's neighbors and family members to these larger systems of abuse and coverup).

The biggest eyeopener for me was the human trafficking presentation when I took the 40 hour DVAT training. I had no idea that California was such a targeted area, especially all the hotels around disneyland. I mean I knew there were a lot of strip clubs and a great deal of prostitution in that Anaheim but I didn't fully understand the connection of of sex work with trafficking. Also, every major event that attracts inter/national travel (i.e. Superbowl, world cup, olympics, etc.) also attracts traffickers.

Basically they traffic girls (mostly) within CA. They keep them drugged and isolated and they fly them back and forth between Northern and Southern California so they are disoriented and sometimes dissociating. Additionally, runaway and kicked out teens are approached by pimps/others connected to trafficking within 48 hours of being on the street.

Also, sometimes what seems like just another domestic violence situation is really a gateway to trafficking through prostitution. The "boyfriend" is really a pimp or someone who networks for them.

No offense but if I was a sexual abuse victim the last thing I would want is a bunch of deranged pizzagate believers breathing down my neck espousing their crack pot theories. Haven't they been through enough?

I thought about this and I also hope that they wouldn't try to "investigate" or harass while volunteering.

But I think that the people in charge of trainings would not take crackpot shit at all. They tend to be very protective of the victims and don't hesitate in kicking people out for soapboxing/whatabouting if it's clear they aren't helping in good faith and selflessly. They pay attention for signs of mental illness and will try to let them help more indirectly if at all. That is my experience with the DVAT and sexual assault trainings, at least. Someone was kicked out of a recent training for sexually harassing other participants...

I would hope that the training and education would open most people's eyes though. Also, in my experience, when you work directly with victims you still have to give a resume and interview as if for a job.

Can you explain what these emails mean? (These are few examples of many coded emails found in Wikileaks):

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55433

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30613

If not how would you try to?

Once you find out about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code

And this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheese%20pizza

And then you talk to people who either are pedophiles or have been around those kind of people on the darknet or whatever and they are familiar with many more of these terms than someone who isn't involved in fucking children or into watching child porn. Normal people have no reason to be aware of any of these code words.

15 min video explaining Pizzagate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hxWDyjUAoQ

32 min video explaining Pizzagate in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYW78-Obik

And then you start to look at all the shady connections Podesta the DNC and Clinton Foundation have you start to see the bigger picture...

Then you start to realize all of the similar events that occurred in the past that have been covered up and brushed away before the internet existed just like they are trying to do with Pizzagate and it becomes pretty obvious.:

The Dutroux Affair:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/?ref=search_posts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux

The Franklin Cover Up:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/Franklin/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations

The Finders Cult:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/ciadrugsabusemurder.shtml

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/27lqws/the_finders_deep_child_abuse_groupcult/

https://www.scribd.com/doc/70996637/Finders-Cult

http://i.imgur.com/bjWb7js.jpg

Westminster Paedophile Dossier:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_paedophile_dossier

US Satanic Panic In The 1980s:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-satanic-panic-in-the-1980s-1679476373

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

After reading all of the above then you really start to wonder why something like the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" even exists in the first place and then you realize they exist to cover up and shed doubt on any evidence of a victims testimony/story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Memory_Syndrome_Foundation

If you can't understand how clues are used for an investigation then I have nothing left to say to you. Go read a book. Do some fucking research. READ.

No one who digs deep enough doubts the existence of an international human trafficking/child trafficking network that has been run by the elites of the world and protected by various government agencies all around the world for god knows how long. The evidence is there. You just are choosing not to look at it.

No one can post a few paragraphs on the internet that will convince you if your that determined to reject any thoughts that make you uncomfortable.

Most researchers started researching this hoping to be able to prove it false to give them a piece of mind and after WEEKS of reading and researching and sleepless nights they all ended up realizing there was no way there isn't an international human trafficking/child trafficking network that has been run by the elites of the world and protected by various government agencies all around the world.

I know this is copypasta but I don't see how it applies to my post. There is no reason why people investigating pizzagate can't also volunteer even just a little bit of time and energy to local victims of trafficking and sexual abuse.

I have been following PG since its histrionic origins on 4chan where it was impossible to pull apart the genuine from the troll from the paranoid from those with political agendas.

You are not waking me up to the realities of human slavery, abuse, and other rights violations. I've worked and continue to work with many victims of childhood sexual abuse and indirectly with at least one trafficking victim and their family. I've volunteered educating on the connection between DV and Prostitution (and trafficking) and specific vulnerable populations.

I've also worked with clients who are depressed/anxious/paranoid, who spend much of their time reading and arguing online (not just about pizzagate and not just the right), getting worked up, and then feeling impotent and dejected in real life. So my message is for the people who feel that way, disgusted/horrified and lacking agency.

They can go outside and help other people AND themselves.

Eta: and if someone finds themselves obsessing, becoming depressed, or angry to the point of affecting their daily living and they still won't make any changes, then I hope they practice some introspection and ask themselves why they're more willing to go the slacktivist route and not help real life victims too.

Encouraging voices critical to your view to remain silent is to encourage censorship- the very thing you express frustration with in regards to MSM outlets. Why is it ok for you but not for them?

Further, encouraging silence on the part of those who disagree with you is to encourage an echo chamber. Echo chambers skew your perception of truth by presenting the illusion of overwhelming support for your theories. This causes the participants to get whipped up into a self-righteous frenzy, and makes the community immune to any logic disputing their dominant narrative.

Im not saying you're wrong (or right)- I'm just saying you should be listening to all view points and forming your opinion based on both sides of the story. If what the naysayers say doesnt pass your test of logic, ignore their comments- but dont suggest they say nothing at all. That's just you branding their narrative "fake news."

Censorship is never the answer no matter how ridiculous you or they are being.

For the record, I dont believe in Pizzagate myself- but I oppose any and all attempts to censor or silence your theories, and I oppose anyone attempting to leverage propaganda terms like "fake news" against you. In the scope of this being a US issue, you have a right to free speech under the first amendment as do your critics.

EDIT Lest I be discarded as a shill, please read my post history in other subreddits. Plenty of shit is wrong with this country. The chief conspiracy I'm concerned about at this point is the systematic destruction of 4th and 1st amendment rights- it seems almost coordinated in its implementation and seems to be done in a steady bit by bit approach (to limit reaction by the public). Our power relevant to government and monied interests is being destroyed, but I digress...

Can you explain what these emails mean? (These are few examples of many coded emails found in Wikileaks):

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55433

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30613

If not how would you try to?

Once you find out about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code

And this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheese%20pizza

And then you talk to people who either are pedophiles or have been around those kind of people on the darknet or whatever and they are familiar with many more of these terms than someone who isn't involved in fucking children or into watching child porn. Normal people have no reason to be aware of any of these code words.

15 min video explaining Pizzagate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hxWDyjUAoQ

32 min video explaining Pizzagate in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYW78-Obik

And then you start to look at all the shady connections Podesta the DNC and Clinton Foundation have you start to see the bigger picture...

Then you start to realize all of the similar events that occurred in the past that have been covered up and brushed away before the internet existed just like they are trying to do with Pizzagate and it becomes pretty obvious.:

The Dutroux Affair:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/?ref=search_posts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux

The Franklin Cover Up:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/Franklin/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations

The Finders Cult:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/ciadrugsabusemurder.shtml

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/27lqws/the_finders_deep_child_abuse_groupcult/

https://www.scribd.com/doc/70996637/Finders-Cult

http://i.imgur.com/bjWb7js.jpg

Westminster Paedophile Dossier:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_paedophile_dossier

US Satanic Panic In The 1980s:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-satanic-panic-in-the-1980s-1679476373

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

After reading all of the above then you really start to wonder why something like the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" even exists in the first place and then you realize they exist to cover up and shed doubt on any evidence of a victims testimony/story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Memory_Syndrome_Foundation

If you can't understand how clues are used for an investigation then I have nothing left to say to you. Go read a book. Do some fucking research. READ.

No one who digs deep enough doubts the existence of an international human trafficking/child trafficking network that has been run by the elites of the world and protected by various government agencies all around the world for god knows how long. The evidence is there. You just are choosing not to look at it.

No one can post a few paragraphs on the internet that will convince you if your that determined to reject any thoughts that make you uncomfortable.

Most researchers started researching this hoping to be able to prove it false to give them a piece of mind and after WEEKS of reading and researching and sleepless nights they all ended up realizing there was no way there isn't an international human trafficking/child trafficking network that has been run by the elites of the world and protected by various government agencies all around the world.

Copypasta. Doesn't explain his own links. Can't connect them logically in any thread that person has ever posted it.

Some of those emails have like 15 people CCed. I know if I had a sex trafficking ring I'd keep the circle of people that knew about it as small as possible. I'd only be sending emails on a need to know basis. Hell I wouldn't be sending emails because they can be used against you if this kind of stuff ever goes to court

Although those emails are weird but I don't know if I'd jump to the to the assumption of pedophilia. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of coding in those emails but pieces of information are missing. This seems like a puzzle that's only a quarter complete.

Actually those emails should be taken seriously but you guys lose credibility when you start connecting dots without any hard evidence. People might take you guys more seriously if this was presented without all the conjecture.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of coding in those emails

I initially thought this about the Stratfor "how thin to slice it" e-mail. It sounds much more like they're talking about cocaine.

But even that explanation doesn't make much sense. It would have to assume that everyone in that Austin office either uses cocaine, or is perfectly OK with their co-workers doing so. Considering that it's not 1985, I have a bit of difficulty swallowing that.

So the most logical explanation (in my mind) is that they're talking about.... pizza. I don't know if they didn't order enough for the whole office last time, or if they're riffing on an inside joke about communism, or what... but if it's unlikely that they're talking about cocaine, I think that it's even far more unlikely that they're talking about child rape.

Stop spamming this shit. If you feel strongly enough make a new post and invite discussion on the topic. Seriously. This is so obnoxious.

Could you come up with an explanation for those emails that would be the most mundane non-pedophilia related explanation, what would it be and how likely would you say it is?

I've studied the evidence, and have reached the conclusion that John Podesta is a political consultant who enjoys Italian food and modern art. The other interpretations I've seen here appear significantly less likely to be true.

No. What evidence disproves the theory that John Podesta is a political consultant who enjoys Italian food and modern art?

He can be those things as well as other things.

"Hurr durr Sandusky was a football coach, therefore he cannot be a pedophile" - not an argument

I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's just saying that, given what we've seen in the emails, it's much more reasonable to assume that's he's just a guy who likes Italian food and weird art than to assume that he's a pedophile.

For your claim to be true, his well-documented history of enjoying Italian food and modern art would have to be a lie, a massive life-spanning cover all meant to hide his real interest in child sex abuse. All of the art-work he's purchased, all of the fancy meals he's eaten, all of the exotic cuisine he's cooked--all a lie.

This is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

Read his comment. He's saying that being a consultant who enjoys art and food is not mutually exclusive from being a pedo.

I'm not sure if you're a troll or just lack basic reading comprehension skills.

Why do his private emails contain so many references to Italian food? I say it's due to Podesta's lifelong love of Italian food. The #Pizzagate people say it has nothing to do with food, that all those pizza and pasta references are part of a secret code referring to child sex abuse.

We cannot both be correct.

Why in the world would you even say that? Innuendo doesn't work without ambiguity of meaning. Coded language works best if both meanings are in play. Socially speaking, people also build their vocabulary from terms relevant to their life; private references that don't mean exactly what the words state are not going to be built out of whole cloth. They will come from the life experiences of the people making those references. Think "in jokes".

say it has nothing to do with food

You're debunking a claim that isn't being made. If you're going to attribute words to the mouths of other people, try a little harder to make them the actual words those people use. Otherwise all you're revealing is that you're too caught in your confirmation biases to consider the evidence.

Some are references to food; some are code. This is the general consensus amongst pizzagate investigators.

Hey look at that--we're both correct.

"Sandusky had victims therefore he is a pedo" - a valid argument

On another note, are you interested in purchasing a bridge?

says the person who's bought into a story about an international sex ring being run by cannibal pedophile liberals in the basement of a pizza place

lol modern art

Thanks for posting what is literally a painting by a modern artist. Hence, modern art. More importantly, Podesta doesn't own this painting, and no one has shown he's ever even seen it. This is what detracts from credible argument. "Well he owns a painting. And the painting isn't at all relatable to this theory. But the artist who did the painting did this other painting which could be interpreted as depicting child abuse. And while this painting, that isn't a painting we know Podesta has ever even seen but which was painted by an artist who did another painting he owns, could be making any number of statements about child abuse (for example "I'm going to make you think of child abuse, because it is bad and people should face it even if it's an uncomfortable topic"), I am going to assume it's meant to endorse or promote child abuse, even though the painting sure seems intentionally done to evoke a feeling of discomfort and unpleasantness (bony look, contorted pose, black eyes, etc.) Therefore, John Podesta is a pedophile." Can you see why people dismiss that "evidence" as nonsensical? I heard he also has the book Lolita on his bookshelf. Therefore, he's a pedophile. I heard he also has Tom Sawyer on his bookshelf. Therefore, he's a racist.

Podesta doesn't own that painting. He owns this one, and this one.

I love this piece. I'd totally hang it up in my place. Full disclosure, I also used to work at a pizza place. Then again, I'm also not a moron who believes these two coincidences = PEDOPHILE SEX TRAFFICKER.

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Can you please stop spamming this comment? A couple times is okay, but I've come across about a dozen or more across multiple threads. Friendly warning.

Yep sorry I will stop spamming the comment.

Thank you for the warning.

I already explained what I thought those emails meant the last time you pasted this.

Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

The shills are going to try and split this board up over this issue, and divide us. We need to unite under this issue.

I'm afraid it wasn't shills that caused me to stop asking any questions and losing interest. It was being constantly attacked for simply asking any pertinent question. I didn't see any babygaters hold back either, it was as if you were all straight from "Lord of the Flies."

We need to unite under this issue.

No, "we" don't. It's a distraction from the very real issues surrounding the Clinton Foundation, the DNC, the murder of Seth Rich, the fact that Assange is missing, etc.

I really have to wonder why you're here, as if this pep talk is supposed to make a difference in finding out what you think is the truth.

demonize our investigation

Are you investigating something here? Or are you simply white-knighting? With all of your talk of "we" and "us" and "our", I think it's pretty obvious.

He is obviously flapping his gums with no actual proof. He wants to grandstand and be important...and failing.

He's talking about people like you, who make a half dozen comments in a thread to just call people names essentially.

"mountain of evidences" xD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques

lol "if... then you're a pedo"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Nobody "attacks" the Pizzagate deniers.

Even in your first sentence, you're full of shit. Every goddamn person with anything other than "burn the witch!!!" was attacked, and still is for raising any question.

Are you contributing in anyway to constructive discussion on the matter?

How ironic. You're here as if you think of yourself as some great leader of the Pizzagaters, seeking "unity" but going about it in a completely asinine and oh so surprising way.

A group of truly classless "keyboard warriors"...

Aren't you the keyboard warrior here? Aren't you here asking for some ludicrous call to action, yet you're doing exactly nothing, and impressing no one?

I'm actually surprised none of them had the balls to check the dumpster full of bones and the trash bags for DNA!

Nobody "attacks" the Pizzagate deniers.

Right in this thread, dissenters are being called pedophiles. What, exactly, do you call that if not an attack?

I haven't seen that yet, probably haven't read down far enough. I'd say that the deniers have some pretty inflammatory comments that maybe are asking for some retaliation, and I'd agree that most of the deniers are bringing exactly nothing to the discussion other than simple platitudes and unfounded criticism. All I've seen from the deniers is a bunch of "you're wrong" and "you're crazy /dumb"... I don't support anyone being" attacked ", but it certainly can be argued that most of the deniers are just as guilty.

Oh, come on, can we honestly just agree that people tossing accusations of "pedophile" in this subreddit is getting to be a serious problem. It does absolutely no-one any good. And yes, I'll agree that there are also inflammatory people on both sides. That's no excuse for anyone.

nobody attacks pizzagate deniers

Except you, in this very thread!

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5i8ux9/a_message_to_the_pizzagate_deniers/db6ezzx

Nobody "attacks" the Pizzagate deniers.

That's not true.

I'm not even a denier of the whole theory. But yesterday I was downvoted and accused of "defending paedophiles", for debunking a certain part of it.

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Not interested in your copypasta.

It's attacked because it's getting as bad as when nutjobs were calling up grieving Sandy Hook parents accusing them of being CIA plants.

I just want my old /r/conspiracy back. I'm totally down with investigating elite pedophile rings. There is evidence that they exist. But there just isn't (credible) evidence that CPP is anything more than a pizza restaurant.

You guys talk about how everyone else is "closed minded to the truth". That us "deniers" will not listen to reason. But tell me this: are you open to the idea that PG is nothing but misguided fantasy?

I got interested in this because past conspiracies convinced me that there likely are some big, powerful pedo rings out there. The Omaha Boy's Town scandal, the Westminster paedo scandal, and the Marc Dutroux nightmare all seem credible. They are credible because they have at least one of the following:

• witnesses

• victims

• physical evidence

PG has none of those. When someone posts some kind of evidence that isn't "here's a picture that could be construed as bad if you already assume the poster is a child rapist", then I'll be open to it again. But until I see something more than just Alex Jones type wild conjecture, I'm a solid skeptic.

PG isn't going away

OK. That's what people said about Sandy Hook. And Aurora. And whatever that Miami gay nightclub was called (that one has gone away so quickly I can't even recall what it was about). But whether PG is totally real or complete fantasy, it's going to be completely forgotten as soon as the next big news event happens. Because then there will be a new conspiracy.

Every conspiracy disappears faster than the one before it these days. Only the ones with credible evidence or at least a lot of known victims (or high-viz victims, like JFK) stick around.

If you are still denying pizzagate, than you simply do not possess the ability to see the big picture in your head.

FUCK YOU. I think PG is silly because I can see the big picture. I see that there are powerful people who will do anything to stay in power. I see that there are some number of pedophiles among them. But I can also see that PG seems to lack any credibility, and is talked about with the same fervor that comes from religious extremists and other nutjobs. It also seems to overlap 99.9% with T_D, which is an absolute joke.

But still, I love how the one group who absolutely refuses to consider that they may be wrong is the one accusing everybody else of being closed minded. I'm totally open to the idea that PG is real, if I ever see any credible proof. Until then, I'll take it as what it appears to be: zealots believing whatever fits their narrative.

I agree completely. Your post should be stickied because I think it speaks honestly about how many of us feel here. I could not have said it better.

You gotta admit, Alefentis' instagram is questionable as fuck.

Which posts do you think are most questionable?

The nightclub was Pulse in Orlando. I didn't even know there were people that thought it was faked until recently. I have been at an event where families and friends of the victims were there. To see those folks and imagine people claiming their loved one's didn't really die (or didn't exist?) is pretty terrible.

Sorry, I'm relatively new to this and keeping an open mind, excuse my stupid question but is there anything else in Podestas emails worthy of Wikileaks posting them in the first place? Or just the weird pizza stuff?

The biggest, I think, was confirmation that our "allies" in the middle east give $ to ISIS, and that Clinton was aware of it. Some stuff with the press - essentially they showed that Hillary was controlling the questions asked of her during the campaign. And some more evidence that she rigged the primaries. Also Hillary said something along the lines of "say one thing in public, and say what you really mean in backroom meetings".

Podesta also got an interesting email about aliens from astronaut Edgar Mitchell - saying that the Vatican is aware of Extra Terrestrials! But I guess Mitchell kind of lost his marbles at some point, also claiming a psychic healed him with magic powers and stuff. I'm not sure Podesta emailed him back.

Somebody else can probably tell you more. There are thousands of emails, and WL is still releasing (or maybe not?) more. It's a lot to go through, and I've only read a handful.

Hillary casts more shade than a redwood, but none of the troubleshooter plebs have enough clearance to arrest her, so the only part that gets airplay is the pedo accusation. Friend Internet is troubled by the pedo accusation. Even the ultraviolets aren't supposed to have clearance for that.

There's actually a lot to read in the emails beyond creepy comms with Herb Sandler. Go looking for hints about DNC strategy. Pay attention to the to/from lines. Sorting by date also helps a great deal in keeping context together. You can find primary rigging and illicit media influence in there, as well as some interesting monetary flows.

It is ridiculously easy to get people to believe anything and this is one of those times. For all you idiots that believe something that you can not prove...wake up! You would all make really bad detectives.

It's been great chatting with you...Come again soon.

Don't worry, I will.

Will it be the usual 9-5? If you actually believe in conspiracy theories here? Then go post on them. But here you are.

It's not that hard to find posts about something else. Instead you are in here posting hamfisted negations again and again and a-fucking-gain.

Pursue your own interests. Let others do their thing.

r/conspiracies has never been about just blindly believing conspiracies

the_donald kids have just tried to turn it into that

It was calling us, look at the title!

Are we interrupting some validation circle again? :(

I find your lack of willing to look at evidence appalling. Did you read any of the email? Did you see what kind of people they are like? I mean Tony Pedesta's favorite art is filled with pedophilia. James Alafantis Twitter photo is of Antinous, which was a little boy lover of the greeks. He also has a Jeffery Dahmner statue of how he left one of his killers. Now don't give me some bullshit that it's just art. I don't know about you, but this makes me question who they are and what they do. Now I know none of that is evidence that can be used in court, but it's something that should make you question them and won't some answers. Plus why isn't that Norway, Canada, and Australia being busted with pedophilia enough to make you want an investigation. Since we can't get any main stream media, or government agencies like the CIA or FBI to help. We THE PEOPLE must search for information and investigate our selves to find the truth for ourselves.

You don't know what evidence is.

I clearly said that none of that was evidence that can be used in court. It was just information that should make you think a little bit more about the situation. This is why I am saying we need a further investigation, because we need know more about it. If none of that makes you want to know have more answers to the situation than that is sad.

I share you sentiments bud. Truly. Just try and calm down. I feel it in my bones that all of our efforts will be rewarded with vindication soon. Try not to let the nay-sayers sway your focus, and keep spreading the info to those that'll listen.

The people I've seen that support this conspiracy are quick to get mad about sincere questions or requests for links to info. I'm kinda new to Reddit and I'm afraid to ask questions because that apparently makes me a shill.
I try to keep an open mind and follow the links to evidence. I run into articles that mention Sandusky, emails that mention pizza or deleted pages...a lot of deleted pages.
There was even a post that pointed out the moon and stars on the restaurant sign were evidence of satanic links. I once decorated a half bath that way. It was Van Gogh "Starry Night" themed. It was beautiful and in no way related to trafficking children or Satan. Please explain how you connect stars & moons to that?
I don't trust governments and try to get news from independent sources. Propaganda and fake news require that stories are met with skepticism though. Calling people names and alienating them for being skeptical doesn't seem like a good approach to gain support.
You can keep yelling in your echo chamber, or you can offer intelligent arguments and proof to help inform sincerely open minded people. The "if you don't believe in pizzagate, you support pedos" argument reminds me a lot of being told "if you're against the war, you don't support our troops" after 9/11.
http://www.cometpingpong.com/street-cred/

That's a link to evidence of a hipster hangout. That's all I need to know to avoid that place.

Well do you have any proof that will stand up in court? Or is just your opinion based on what you heard?

Addendum: I knew it...no proof. Just your ramblings. A no nothing person trying to sound important...and failing!

but you will come up with goofy, creative rationalizations for it

lol. the cognitive dissonance here is amazing...

you desperately WANT to believe this is true, so you are going to twist every vague or suspicious thing in those emails to fit your desperation

you, and many, many other people are guilty of doing this all the time

i would bet money that you've done absolutely no objective investigating here

being interested in conspiracies doesn't mean you automatically believe one that suits you and then try and bend reality to confirm your bias

you seem to be railing against people for being skeptical of this and not just accepting it all as truth because this is r/conspiracy

This is not a politically motivated investigation

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! oh man your tinfoil hat is too tight if you truly believe that

I don't think anyone wants to believe in it. They are just shocked, so they sound desperate. You will too when this explodes.

(Hate being that religious guy saying "you will regret, you will see it in the end", but in this case, yeah).

There are people here that want it to be true, it is clear as day. They desperately want to peg Clinton and every democrat around her as pedos. You know how I know? They ignore the fact that Trump also hung around pedos and flew on the lolita express(Epstein) or wave it away like Trump didn't know what he was doing or has some secret plan to stop this. They ignore the comments he made himself about young girls. Not everyone is like this, but you are delusional if you think no one has ulterior motives.

Its the same thing as the dems crying about Russia hacks when their emails prove corruption. Different sides of the same coin and I'm not humoring that bullshit.

They know pizzagate is true. That's alot different. The divergence is wether Trump is involved or not (for them).

hey im more than ready to take an objective look at the evidence

...but none of you can provide any

....still waiting

The fact that you are not even interested about googling it and reading the hundreds of posts "resuming" it tells me enough.

im not the one trying to prove this is real.

just being a good skeptic :)

Doing nothing and waiting is being a good skeptic for you? Geez, no wonder people make fun of you.

thats what you inferred? smh

Lol, so what does a "good skeptic" do? Post vague accusations and facebook style fake-news as facts?

you people are being played and it is sad.

You need to learn some critical thinking skills

Man, you are stupid.

lol, ok there idiocracy.

Don't be so ignorant. Circumstantial evidence is not proof of culpability. It changes your opinion, but it is not enough to prove anything. Don't be so fucking stupid!!

Circumstantial evidence is enough to open an investigation.

Usually you need a victim.

Madeleine Mccann?

They told me we won't find any victim because they were dissolved in acid, cremated in pizza oven or eaten in the name of the Dark Lord. (I'm not even kidding)

They never did investigate Julia Child. She was talking about food all the time. Who knows what sinister acts that freaky old lady was in to. She used to do entire TV shows that were entirely euphemism.

They disguised it as a "cooking" show.

Plenty of circumstancal evidence there, plenty...

I count 43454 mentions of "cheese" on the food network, and 343245 mentions of "pasta". WHY AREN'T WE OPENING A GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION INTO THIS OBVIOUS HIVE OF CHILD RAPISTS WHO OPERATE OPENLY ON CABLE TV?????

My sentiment exactly...

Would you just fucking look at the state of you...

Provide proof that will stand up in open court...or ...shut the fuck up!!

Theres more than enough circumstantial evidence to justify this

That will not stand up in court. A prosecutor would get no where with that...and you know it. This is all sensational here say and a gross smear campaign...anything but the truth. I am not on one side or the other...I just hate bullshit!!

No, what you hate is allowing people to partake in an independent investigation.

This is not an "independent investigation", this is a circle jerk done as a political feel good exercise.

And now back to scoobydoo internet mystery for trump adventures.

Look...you can justify your allegations all you want to. Either prove it or shut yur your face!

The sad thing is that there is possible children who are being harmed by this and the funny thing is plenty of people in our government have been charged an accused with children porn before. There was an investigation that was done back into 2006 and they found people who were buying child porn. Some of them actually worked in the pentagon. Anderson Cooper was reporting on this. I find it funny that you want to deny and ridicule people who just want a further investigation. Also you don't find it even more suspicious with countries like Canada, Norway, and Australia that recently just got caught doing these types of practices. You can cling to your ignorance all you want and try to deny it, but you are what we call part of the problem. All people want is for this to get a legitimate investigation. Since mainstream media or government agencies like the CIA or FBI won't help, which is no fucking surprise. We THE PEOPLE have to investigate for our selves to try and find some damn truth in all this mess.

http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/officer-year-facing-life-prison-multiple-charges-raping-children/

its in everywhere.

How is that case linked to comet ping pong?

its not, its justa reminder that this CP shit is everywhere. Ppl in positions of great power are the real bastards.

It's on Voat too, I don't see many pizzagaters minding that they share space with pedophiles nor them launching any investigation into it.

Same with 4chan, where the "cheese pizza" code came from.

I swear to god some pizzagaters are projecting SO SO HARD and they're lucky their useful idiots are 100% blind to anything they can't pin to democrats.

Yeah, there are bad people everywhere.

70,000 members of this cp forum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12762333

Doesn't mean Tony Podesta sacrifices children to Moloch in his hot tub.

People don't get that comet pizza is not the main center. Princess Diana, Saville, Norway, Clintons, Biljana Djurdjevic.. There is just too much stuff.

With all of the intentional doxing and incitement towards harassment and violence, these pizzagaters simply will not be happy until their disciples start blowing up random pizza parlors all over the country, full of parents and children. All based on speculation and innuendo. Then they call anyone that disagrees with their claims "shills" and "pedophiles" and "child rapists".. The exact same tactics that all hoaxers use.

I'm convinced one of their lesser goals is to get this sub banned too.

Don't you know political hysteria when you see it? Or are you blinded by "group think" ?

Must be both. Lol.

Must be both. Lol.

Finally a rational comment.

lol, how have you been "investigating" there? reading what other people write on their blogs or fb pages?

please post your notes and show your work at how you've pieced all this together in such a way that you're convinced it happened?

waiting...

Whipping themselves into a frenzy of heresay and speculation is what they call an investigation around here.

Lol as soon as pizzagate came around, suddenly everyody is a lawyer or a prosecutor..

After reading your OP I need to know which one you are?

You never start an investigation with a smoking gun dude, you build from the ground up.

And you know this how? Because you are familiar with investigations and their processes? If so, how can you make a statement when case precedent proves that to be 100% false? If the answer is no, then you should refrain from making claims.

We are in that process right now.

The process of what exactly? An investigation? So how are those witness interviews coming along? Who happens to be in charge of evidence custody? Who mapped out that chain of command?

Why are you encouraging us to just stop?

Most people, based on what I've read, are encouraging you guys to present real evidence. By real I mean video, audio, images, eye witnesses or victims, trace evidence, etc. People want evidence of wrong doing/a crime.

Theres more than enough circumstantial evidence to justify this, you would have to be clinically insane to think otherwise...

To justify what exactly? An investigation? Sure look into it. Now let's say something was found. What is your next step?

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The thing that worries me about it, is that there are people out there that take it way too far. I get that people are trying to get others fired up about the issue, but it's a fine line between that and forming a lynch mob to go deal with the pedo's. That's very dangerous they've only been convicted in the media/public opinion.

How hard is it for people with power to just put out some conjecture that you are a pedo, forget suicide in the garage and the following suspicion, try beaten to death in the street and people saying good riddance.

forming a lynch mob to go deal with the pedo's.

Where does it say that?

It's not hard to imagine the general public's reaction, or for that matter, see examples of it just google pedo beaten by mob.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

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Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed.

Awwwwww come one! Don't you have a sense humor. It was a harmless joke. No one got hurt.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

Possibly you don't realize what subreddit you're posting in...

Every investigation must start before hard evidence is found.

That is how hard evidence is found.

You don't just 'stumble across' hard evidence and then start an investigation.

Possibly you don't realize what subreddit you're posting in...

Been here for 8 plus years and counting. I think I have a pretty good idea what sub this is.

Every investigation must start before hard evidence is found.

Not always. I am not complaining about any investigation. I am complaining about everyone's that "pizzagate" is true when there is zero evidence to support it. "Group Think" is a bad thing.

That is how hard evidence is found. You don't just 'stumble across' hard evidence and then start an investigation.

You have never conducted an investigation for real, have you?

You have never conducted an investigation for real, have you?

I diagnose state-wide data networks for a living, what do you think?

I don't wait until a major outage before I investigate something that 'seems off'.

That's why I get paid the medium bucks...

Investigations get started on circumstantial evidence all the time. There seems to be some circumstantial evidence.

https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

There is info?

I thought they just mentioned the word "pizza" in some emails. Then somebody spun up this crazy story about pedophilia to smear Hillary to help Trump win the election.

Trump won. The usefulness of the story is long past. Now it's taken up a life all it's own among amateur "theorists".

I heard they're still looking for the Moth Man. At least there are some eyewitnesses who say they saw him which means there is WAY more evidence that the Moth Man is real than pizzagate.

Oh, wow. Comparing us to mothman believers. There's much, MUCH more CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence, a fucking mountain of it, to suggest pizzagate is real. There's been a few people talk about seeing mothman. See the massive middle ground between the two?

No, l said that PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THEY SAW Moth Man. That's an eye witness.

Which is stronger in a court of law an eye witness or circumstancal evidence?

Here Let Me Help You Out

Also, I did not compare pizza gate believers to those who believe in Moth Man. I used it as an example.

Your not gaining any credibility by missing the point of my statement. I try to make what I write as clear as possible.

There's much, MUCH more CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence, a fucking mountain of it

like what?

A little girl with masking tape on her wrists, some unusual art, and the fantasy of taking down them libruls once and for all.

https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

holy crap....this is your proof?

lol an email about a handkerchief, and then some kook extrapolates it to mean its a "secret code"

this was really informative about you people though and how flawed your reason is, thanks for the link.

Theres much more to it than that. Theres enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an investigation. Investigation are frequently launched by circumstantial evidence.

Edit: Corrected accidental formatting.

Theres enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an investigation.

like what?

Like what you'll find in the link I posted and on voat.co/v/Pizzagate, etc.

Edit: Autocorrect error.

Edit 2: https://www.corbettreport.com/reddit-bans-pizzagate-investigation-the-corbett-report-continues-it/

BWAHAHAHA!

thats your "proof"?

oh man...you're too smart for this bullshit. seriously

that dude just rambled for 5 min, and never once gave a reputable source for his slant...I like how he mentioned how this whole thing started on the_donald though. Thats the real conspiracy here...

man, those trolls have mastered manipulation.

Hey, btw...put in your own words what you think "pizzagate" is and why do you think that?

seriously though. Thanks for indulging me. Most pizzagate people scurry off whenever you start asking basic questions

Did you even review the links I posted and the links in those links? There's also more than one PG subverse.

It was more than just pizza in those email. It was walnut sauce, checkered handkerchief, hotdog, and more. Which I guess what........ It's all on a list by the FBI for code words used by pedophilia. The point of doing this isn't to help trump. We need to stop seeing this as a party problem, because honestly both could drive off a bridge for all I care. All people are asking for is a legit investigation. So since we can't get any help from main stream media or government agencies like the FBI or CIA. WE THE PEOPLE are left to investigate and find the truth in all of this mess.

It's all on a list by the FBI for code words used by pedophilia

No it isn't, stop lying. The source for that is a 4chan post. "hot dog", "walnut sauce" had never been implicated as pedophile code words until the emails were leaked in November.

The FBI has no such list. They do have a document on symbols used by pedophiles, no code words.

Unless you would like to link to it?

As someone who believes Theresa May blatantly sabotaged any attempt to investigate sexual abuse undertaken by MPs this is the sticking point for me. So much of this hinges on a post on 4chan that is literally some guy saying what he thinks each food is codeword for.

That's the issue I have with PG, it isn't that I believe it to be impossible.

It's that the entire chain of evidence is this one giant daisy chain. If any of the supposedly decoded code words isn't right the whole thing starts to fall apart. If any one randomly gleaned inference is taken down the rest start to fall away as well. Instead of each piece of evidence being strong enough to stand on it's own and supported through it own truthfulness, we've got this giant chain of very thin connections.

Sure if every single connection is true then something ghastly and incredible has been uncovered, but it seems like if even one code word is incorrectly decoded or if one piece of "circumstantial" evidence is just actually a normal email the whole thing just falls away.

So much of this hinges on a post on 4chan that is literally some guy saying what he thinks each food is codeword for.

Considering that 4chan, a forum notorious for trolling and catering to child pornography enthusiasts (historically at least), was the likely origin of the "cheese pizza" euphemism years ago, this is telling.

I wasn't lying I was just misinformed on the list. You are right about it because I am unable to find an FBI article on it. This is the problem when you don't get a full investigation on it. People are left to decipher what is true or not. Still reading those emails makes me a little suspicious of what they are talking about.

This is the problem when you don't get a full investigation on it.

Parroting disinfo is actually a very common "problem" in witch-hunts fueled by 4chan trolls and partisan political propagandists.

That's just not true. There is no "FBI list of code words", not that I have seen at least. There is the term "Cheese Pizza" which is used to refer to CP, but all this "walnut, sauce, hotdog" stuff comes from a 4chan post. Nobody has been able to provide me with these definition in use before PG. If you look at the conspiracy with some skepticism, like these term came directly from somebody's ass AFTER they read the emails, the whole thing becomes a lot less convincing. Add in the satanism, which is a go too label Christians often default to when talking about their enemies, and then it becomes super dubious.

Your right about the FBI list at this moment, because I am unable to find a posting of it. Though this is just one angle to the story. There is much more to this than just these code words though. Also these type of satanism practice have been going on for a long time. There are people like Marina Abramovic who practice rituals that are talked about by Aleister Crowley. Now this stuff isn't as important it shows how possibly deep this can go.

FBI list you're thinking of is probably the FBI page on pedo symbols. Not a list of the terms.

Do you think someone rich and connected like Podesta, who is supposedly a foodie, is uses phrases like "walnut sauce" when almost every Italian dish has a name and the sauce is only one part of the dish? As a foodie myself, I find that disconcerting, especially since he goes out of his way to ID wine in some emails by the label and vintage.

He is obviously arrogant and concerned with being part of the trends in contemporary art, so he is going to speak the language, all the time, and does, except in these instances when he ham-fistedly doesn't. Which makes it obvious there is a sub-text there.

Podesta's walnut sauce.

I have emails where I talk about pizza. Maybe I should be under investigation...

There is much more to this than just some silly emails that talk about Pizza. Now just because you right off this whole story because of pizza related emails shows doesn't mean you debunked the whole story.

Do you spend $65 000 on pizza and hotdogs in one order?

Edit: It also helps to look for the context of the words in the podesta emails, quotation marks, innuendos etc.

Edit 2: The Whitehouse also has a policy of not bringing in foreign food.

Edit 3: I'm not claiming the food words are codewords for pedo stuff. That is disinformation.

Edit 4: One code word, "Cheese Pizza" might be for "Child Porn".

would love a detailed explanation of what was said in those e-mails and why you interpret them in this way

in your own words

I've been following this since the early days on T_D, and I've noticed that over time, there is a growing reluctance on the part of pizzagaters to make any public interpretation of the e-mails whatsoever.

Back when it first broke, people loved to speculate about jizz and blood-soaked handkerchiefs, little kids getting passed around between DC politicos in a farmhouse pool, an entire office of people taking an informal "count" on who wants to participate in a group child rape session.

Those theories played out fine in the furious masturbatory circle-jerk that was the early days of pizzagate. After more outside eyes started gazing upon the "evidence", however, it seems that most people have been rightly shamed into silence about these interpretations. Because they are Grade-A batshit crazy.

The only explanation you're likely to get now will be, "Well, they're obviously talking about *something*, we just don't know for sure what it is."

I've been following this since the early days on T_D

there it is...this shit started on that sub, or from one of the power users on that sub

and that sub is just nothing but angry, angry trolls who logic waved bye-bye to long ago

they revel in posting "fake news" and dont care about the dumb people who actually believe it and get irrationally upset about it

if you're an old-head of the internet you've seen their type of tactics from the good(?) old days of 4chan and anonymous

...except at least anonymous was more about truth, and not just trying to watch it all burn

Perhaps why this inane mania has persisted:

• https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

  How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

Some dodgy "intel" firm could be working to discredit "conspiracy theorists" online.

Now there's a theory that makes sense..

Investigations get started on circumstantial evidence all the time. There seems to be some circumstantial evidence.

https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

Kinda depends on how strong or weak the circumstancal evidence is.

We're talking about KIDS here, right? If there really was anything to this don't you think that any police officer who has any heart at all would look into this?

Crimes against children invoke very strong emotions. Even hardened criminals will take action against people who commit such crimes.

As I've said before, this is just left over mud that was put together to help Trump win the election.

Look up "Devil Monkey". My little sister thinks that's what chased us one night. I was driving and didn't see it as closely as she did. She described it as kinda looking like a baboon mixed with the monster from Watchers. I Googled and found a cryptozoology creature I never knew about.

So, question from a non believer. Where exactly do you see this whole thing going? Is the ultimate goal to get a bunch of people arrested for pedophilia? What happens if no victims or tangible proof ever materialize? Will this nebulous investigation continue on ad nauseum or is there a point where you would ever admit that the evidence just isn't there? Genuinely curious, thanks.

Remember the pedo daycare hysteria back in january? What came out of it? Nothing. Same thing will happen this time and these angry neckbeards will go back to their fedora collections and anime pillows.

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

Right... But there are no kids. No victims have come forward. Not a shred of evidence exists upon which to build a case since there are no actual victims. How do you plan on convicting anyone or getting children to safety when no such kids exist?

there is enough circumstantial evidence to support an investigation into John Podesta and his affiliates.

like what?

Didn't you see his creepy art? Or the names of the bands that play in the pizza restaurant?

Poe's Law...

Ok. Try to follow me on this one. Even if I assembled enough circumstantial "proof" to fill a warehouse against someone I believe committed arson, how will anything ever come of it if no one comes forward with actual evidence that their house was burned down?

Ted Bundy did not go on trial due to circumstantial evidence, he went on trial because he had a body count. He killed dozens of women. There were mutilated bodies and actual physical evidence as well as eye witness testimony.

I ask you a simple question and you retreat further down your pizza conspiracy k hole.

I repeat, how do you plan on going forward with this case when no victims exist in real life?

So you fully realise this "investigation" is done backward right?

You already have the verdict, now you're looking for proof and then maybe in the end you'll find victims?

That's a pretty dangerous way of doing things.

Lynch mob behavior.

He's saying that if there is absolutely no reason to think that a crime has taken place in the first place, hunting the criminal may seem detached from reality.

And this right here is way the conspiracy is met with such derision. Ted Bundy was a suspect in a number of actual crimes. Murders in fact. The police found mutilated remains of young women and were on the hunt for an actual serial murderer.

To compare the evidence for pizzagate to that of a serial murderer that had left a number of families devastated, demanding answers from the authorities, is absurd. It's conflation and confection all at once.

these kids

Which kids?

and show our findings to a large audience

cant wait to see those...

I like and believe in conspiracies, that is why I am on this sub. I continue to point out issues with the pizzagate 'evidence' because nothing anyone has linked me to so far is even close to anything.

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You post this same spam comment over and over. So I have to assume you have been on this board enough to see what you're looking for. Reasonable explanations for the email wording are posted over and over, but every time disregarded and the person called a "shill" or "pedo defender". I have even provided people links to handkerchiefs with maps and pizza related maps, etc. but Occam has gone out of style.

Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

Why does this post itself feel like a psyop?

Who is this general "you" the poster is talking about? It's all appeal to emotion. We aren't allowed to use critical thought in here according to this post. And I thought this sub was about finding the truth, not being contrarian just to be contrarian. If you think that every single conspiracy is true, then you are an idiot. Some are and some are not, and no one has all the right answers. I just happen to be skeptical of this one.

Go ahead with your investigations, I'm glad someone is doing it. Don't confuse me saying I'm skeptical with saying you shouldn't investigate. But don't brigade downvote me and insult me because I'm skeptical. That's the opposite of how informed discussions and investigations should work. And please check my comment history before calling me a shill.

Why does this post itself feel like a psyop?

Because this whole memed "conspiracy theory" with an absurdly stupid brand name is likely a psy-op or long-troll.

It had another name before it got the stupid brand name.

It doesn't need a name. Brand marketing is a tool of liars and manipulators. Telling, no?

The first name it had was none. It was a few forum posts talking about suspicious emails, plus channers organizing under their own esoteric banners. Then it was Operation Bearenstain, which I never quite 'got' because what does the Mandela effect have to do with anything? Then it was Pizzagate, which was always stupid. I don't know whose idea that was.

May as well be gategate, because that's what the media is making out of it; a metascandal that's being used to push the idea of fake news into the public.

Operation Berenstain is from the show Mr. Robot.

Whoever called it "pizzagate" made it a partisan political issue by adding "gate". Dumb or trolling.

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

In 10-20 years, people will remember you the same way we remember people who went hysterical while hearing "War of the Worlds" on radio.

Actually, the idea that the War of the Worlds radio show caused mass hysteria is completely false. In fact, most people didn't even listen to it to begin with.

As for how the myth started, the most likely explanation is that newspapers wanted to discredit radio news as retaliation for losing ad revenue. In fact, Editor and Publisher, the newspaper industry's trade journal, responded to the supposed mass hysteria by describing radio as "a medium which has yet to prove, even to itself, that it is competent to perform the news job."

Sources:

Campbell, W. Joseph. Getting It Wrong: Debunking the Greatest Myths in American Journalism.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/history/2013/10/orson_welles_war_of_the_worlds_panic_myth_the_infamous_radio_broadcast_did.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/the-war-of-the-worlds-panic-was-a-myth/

Ironic bot pointing to mega irony! Even the bot is pointing to the hysteria encouraged by pro-pizzagaters agents.

As for how the myth started, the most likely explanation is that newspapers wanted to discredit radio news as retaliation for losing ad revenue.

HMMMM

https://imgur.com/ftTJ5Jb

Shit did hit the fan when they did a version of it in Quito, Ecuador.

• http://www.war-ofthe-worlds.co.uk/war_worlds_quito.htm

  At last the station staff realised just what was happening in the streets. A belated admission and plea for calm was broadcast, which is when things got really serious. Up until this moment, no one appears to have been seriously hurt, but now a great many people in Quito were acutely aware they had been fooled, and were looking for something or someone to vent their fury upon. El Comercio, the largest and most respected paper in the country, owned radio Quito and the station was housed in the same building as the newspaper. It was to this location that the mob advanced, and in what might have seemed an ironic act by the crowd, set fire to copies of the El Comercio newspaper and hurled these (and other objects) at the building. The main entrance was blocked and a fire swiftly broke out. Some of the besieged staff of 100 people escaped from a rear exit, but many were trapped on upper floors and were forced in some desperate cases to leap from windows. Others attempted to form human chains to the ground, but many fell. The reported figures for the eventual death toll varies between about 6 and 20, with the former considered the more realistic number, but regardless of the how many died or were injured, it was a clearly a terrifying night with some despicable acts reported. It is said that the mob beat policemen who arrived on the scene and removed fire hydrants in order to thwart efforts to extinguish the blaze.

  As the building burned, Army units drove tanks through the streets and fired tear gas to disperse the crowds, but help was late coming, as in the most deadly twist of the night, much of the cities emergency services had actually been dispatched to Cotocallao to join the battle against the Martians. Eventually order was restored, but the El Comercio building was severely damaged, with an estimated repair bill of some $350,000 dollars. Alongside the loss of life, much of the equipment for the station and presses for the paper had been destroyed.

No. Because those people quickly got over it.

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

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Nobody "attacks" the Pizzagate deniers. This post was made simply to raise awareness of Pizzagate and to call you out and expose the irony of what you're trying to do here.

Ha talk about irony.

Fair enough, call me a pedo protector but...

Half of you touch their own kids, step kids, siblings and/or kids near any of you.

Statistics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (woo edit!)

(nope, no kids around me at all, therefore I'm not a number in that stat.)

np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5hng64/debunkers_your_greatest_fear_of_all_is_here_the/db2vjee/

The missing children stats is never explained right (just informing people):

• 800,000 total children (including teenagers)
• About 200,000 kidnapped by their own parents
• Majority of the rest are teenagers who fled home (runaways), got trapped with wrong gangs, fake modelling jobs, got lost, etc. (the majority of missing children are not kids but teenagers)
• About 1000 kidnapped by total strangers
• About 100 "white van kidnapper" kind of scenario (called stereotypical kidnapping). Apparently, half come home.
• Over 96% of all abductees return home within 24 hours, majority are teenage runaways

Those statistics should "cheer" you up in the circumstances. Most kidnappers are also known to the child/teenager. Parents are the biggest kidnappers!

np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5gjih4/pizzagate_calling_it_now_reddit_will_attempt_to/dat73tv/

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. Changed temp ban to permanent.

Honestly if people actually believe there is a child trafficking ring being run out of a pizza shop actually fucking do something about it. Don't just bang away on your fucking keyboard. If what people on this thread are writing about "PizzaGate" is true then some kid is being assaulted right now, and what are these "PizzaGate" accusers doing...fuck all. Grab your box of evidence and head down to the Police station. Organise a mass protest, storm the fucking pizza shop, demonstrate on the steps of Congess...but what will you do...Nothing, except make excuses about the Police, CIA and FBI all being involved and that demonstrations don't work. Or the child sex ring has moved and is now being run out of a Nando's chicken shop, yes "NandoGate" is coming. I mean for fuck sake if you honestly believe even one child is actually in danger you should get off your fat arse and go directly to your local police station and make a report, because apparently the evidence is irrefutable! This is not a conspiracy from 1960 this is apparently a current event.

Did you forget about the guy who went there with a gun?

Did I say anything about taking a gun? No, and it's not about being a vigilante. What recently happened in South Korea, did you see the protests? What happened? If a large group of people actually believed something was happening to children right now you don't think they could mobilise to actually do something? That's if what is being said about Pizzagate is true.

I just was drawing a connection between that event and you suggesting someone/people "storm" the pizza shop.

that is exactly what they want people to do so they can crack down hard on them.

Always an excuse, all good. Only proves this pizzagate is about hurling shit accusations and has nothing to do with protecting children from abuse.

Yes, I am sure you think you are doing that by ignoring the actual children being hurt and looking into pizza places.

I know I'll get downvoted for this but I don't care. /r/conspiracy has always been somewhere I could speak my mind and I'm not going to stop doing that for fear of ridicule or being accused of shilling.

I do believe something weird is going on but this is being rammed down our throats. A lot of the "connections" people are making are hysterical and some kind of mass hallucination. I went on voat and posted a couple of things which were related to collecting evidence and making sure that we have the proof to back it up, otherwise our whole case could be debunked by people who don't fully understand what's going on. Needless to say I was jumped on and accused of being a pedo/shill for it. But if you'd have watched the whole video it was saying that pedo's DO exist in high places and that there are satanic pedo rings in the gov. People didn't watch it because the first 2 mins were talking about the importance of evidence collecting and vetting. It's really put me off contributing in any way.

I'm very vocal in my opossition to the MSM and pull them up on their lies constantly. Just because I'm not actively engaged (anymore) in Pizzagate and every damned theory that pops up doens't mean I don't believe there are paedophiles in high places, connected to the governement but MANY conspiracy theorists have raised this very topic for years now and people ignored them! and it's true!!

As soon as /r/the_donald users flooded this subreddit we were all forced to believe every single thing that was related to the evil Podesta and his cronies. I hate the guy and Clinton for the record but we get it, you believe in Pizzagate. Again, many of us have been talking about this kind of thing for years and no one paid attention.

You'll find that connecting "Pizzagate" to older pedophilia issues goes over really well. That's a good way to farm karma out of the believers. They see it as a chance to chase down further information on the "big" issues like Foundation abuse, the Epstein connection, etc. This is your chance to get attention to the thing you've been talking about for years.

[deleted]

Ladies and gents, case and point.

I suggest you read what I wrote fully as you've just made a fool out of yourself for doing exactly what I just wrote about, people just reading the first paragraph and jumping to a conclusion.

I was heavily involved with Pizzagate and completely believe in what's going on, I was making a deeper examination of it all rather than saying it does or doesn't exist. Damn.

HAHAHAh downvoted me then deleted his commented. In case you want to know he pasted like 3 A4 pages worth of Pizzagate "evidence". and said "explain this".

I see the big picture, but there needs to be more before the accusations start flying and crossing into actual life. I sense that no one on board with this actually cares if they're wrong, as in what weird shit the accused (shitty as some of course are) must deal with in response. They are elite politicians, 100% Democrats, and if you blink hard enough you might find yourself in the midst of a textbook right-wing conspiracy, which you'll recall have all aimed to assassinate character and sway hearts and minds while leading to zero convictions ever, just a million charged allegations and myths.

That said, I am a fiction writer, and I know how the connective mind works in constructing narratives, what it does to reach certain goals. Everyone on here needs to read Pynchon if you haven't. Conspiracy will take you down some very frightening corridors that may not totally reside in reality. Fear and doubt have a lot to do with it. As well the need to believe you've accessed some secret glimpse of a power far beyond mere common men, the face of god in some way, followed by the opportunity to bring it all down. Investigation is great, it's one of life's points in my view. Thinking about how a conspiracy might operate is not the same, though, as conspiratorial thinking. Something like that. I don't know, ask someone who's been through some schizo episodes. They aren't the same.

The fact that you lead with the permanence of the controversy, and how it's of great import to just keep the idea just hanging around, even though no sudden revelations are being found or investigated beyond the initial rounds of file dripping, rabid sniffing, conclusion leaping, and unverified FBI pedo checklist memes (aside from one guy losing his shit and firing a rifle in the pizza place, basically what I fear anyone too far gone in conspiratorial bias-confirming thought might be driven to under extreme conditions) is a little suspect, I have to admit. Want to laugh in my face? Start looking at Trump and Russia, stop worrying about bizarre art and the partisan goggle syndrome. They would be quite pleased that so many of our minds are working on this case and being perpetually disturbed at the same time.

As well the need to believe you've accessed some secret glimpse of a power far beyond mere common men

bingo

the real tin-foil hat conspiritards are always doing it for the sense of importance it gives them

they're 'smarter' than the sheep, lol.

What type of fiction do you write?

Mixture of real and surreal. I feel very at home on this board, even though I worry about people's mental health (including my own) and how it's not possible to tell if someone is really losing their mind or just trolling up a storm. Text has never been easy to parse.

I feel at home here as well as the two of us are basically in the same boat when it comes to writing. Like you, I worry about mental health (including my own) and when people reach the breaking point.

As for text being difficult to parse, I guess that's why I went a different route with storytelling.

You apparently haven't been paying attention to latest research into diplomatic immunity granted to two international shipping companies owned by the Besta Pizza owner. Or the money laundrying operation they found as well.

They? We need names not pronouns. Otherwise it still just sounds like a story.

And "besta" = any company in the world that has that name (eg. another one of "those" proofs)

They = pizza gate researchers on voat

If you want more go look at the first dozen threads over there. I'm not going to repeat it here.

You guys are so lazy

write down your findings and copy/paste

who's lazy again? havent seen you make a decent argument yet

It looks just like this board did very recently. Unfortunately I've already given this topic more of my evening than I planned, plus the site in general seems rather non-plussed with all the liberal hallmarks (PC culture/snowflakes/what is seen as limitations on "freedom of speech"), with some men's rights posts thrown in, so I'm not exactly inclined to believe anything said. These guys seem to have a motive for investigation beyond "ohh the poor children!" Have at it, anyway, keep Salem's fires stoked.

I'm sorry, I won't visit voat. It hosts child pornography. I find child pornography unacceptable. Why are you so interested in a site that hosts child pornography?

Good to point out that glaring hypocrisy, but to be fair I don't think Voat hosts anything, it's a social-media link forum just like reddit.

Never seen CP on voat... Are you thinking about the jailbait subverse, /v/YoungLadies ? It is against the rules there to post nudes, preteens, and illegal content.

even though no sudden revelations are being found or investigated beyond the initial rounds of file dripping

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1466894

As well the need to believe you've accessed some secret glimpse of a power far beyond mere common men

I don't get this POV. It's extremely common and seems patently wrong. Conspiracy theories are the most disempowering hobby ever. They're all about how helpless and ignorant the individual is, theorists included. They don't offer a chance to bring it all down. Most conspiracists are already defeated - archivists putting together records that they know won't be read about subjects they know they don't understand.

So, you have nothing to add, just "warning" those who don't agree with you to shut up.

I can tell you right now that millions of people all over the world are taking Pizzagate and the content in Podesta's emails seriously

Haha no. There is a bunch of people who fell for it, we are not all as green as you. Some of us know a trap when we see it.

you guys look ignorant for pushing that stuff here.

Yes, people with a level head are the ignorant ones. Not those who believe in a secret code based on nothing. Not those who think criminals will communicate in unencrypted emails, disguising it as real estate or dinner conversations.

You're literally coming onto a conspiracy sub, discouraging an independent investigation

No, we are discussing a conspiracy that the government fed you a fake story to get you riled up, and are now fixing the problem which is you. Problem, reaction, solution. The way of the world. Give people something fake to react to, then make a solution. That solution is fake news and censorship.

The really funny part is you still think that fake news is just a coincidence, or is a reaction to PG. It is not, it was the plan all along, and your note here simply furthers their narrative.

You are working for the MSM. You can't see it because you blinded yourself with your belief based on nothing, but you are.

When people don't agree with you, of course you think you are "being attacked". Easy there mr. martyr. You are not important enough to attack. There just happens to be some people who don't want their internet forever changed because of some people who are either bought and paid for pushing this narrative, or else just gullible people who can be manipulated easily.

Just read this thread. People are aware of what is going on. They know PG is a set up.

This a conspiracy that I could actually get behind. The disinformation campaign has warped more than a few minds this election season. The erosion of our civil liberties has way more real life weight than this absurd satanic pedophile pizza ring.

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I know all about PG, I was on 4chan when it was all "discovered". I have read every email carefully, read every post, every day here. I can pretty much guarantee I have read as much about it as you if not far more, because I have been researching these things for decades. I corresponded personally with John DeCamp and other researchers such as Dave McGowan. I have ordered all the hard to find books on satanic ritual abuse and read them all. That is how I know you are chasing a fantasy.

You don't get to tell people to go do research, because you failed in yours, fantastically. You go read a fucking book. Pizzagate is a complete joke, and you just have to read comments on your thread to see most people agree with that.

You are not as smart as you think you are, nor as well-read.

Fine if your so smart and well read and so knowledgeable about all of this then please do the entire world a favor so we can move on with our lives and either thoroughly debunk ALL of this or kindly STFU.

there is nothing to debunk. That is the joke here. You have no evidence, no victim, no criminal complaint, no conspiracy, except for why you are pushing this so hard. That is the conspiracy. You have an agenda, and we see it. Stop trying to fuck our world up with your fake theories that you know are fake.

Lmfao your so full of shit this is amazing.

You are transparent. I can see you are scared people see through your act.

Deflect harder please

Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

Pretty sure the opposition here to pizzagte is professional. I mean that is exactly what you are describing.

This is the biggest story of our time. And some day we are going to want to thank Hillary Clinton for being the fantastically corrupt and sloppy piece of shit she is.

I think a lot of us came in after the election. People are shocked that he won. Conspiracy theorism was a strong element of Trumps campaign and maybe we can try and convince you to stop chasing ridiculous stuff and instead focus on the real enemy. The one that wants to cut taxes for the wealthy, regulations for banks, and healthcare for us. The one that would rather see global warming than impact to their bottom line. Pizzagate is silly, billionaires controlling our government is not.

Pizzagate is not silly. The Clinton campaign was silly. The reaction of adults to her loss is silly.

But I agree we need to watch the billionaires. But we have always done that here.

But we need to collapse these pedophile rings. This is just one of many that have turned up, and they are always just swept under the rug.

But by all means, keep going on defending pedophiles if you can sleep at night.

Pizzagate is not silly.

Say that out loud...

You can find that here too. Just not in this thread. You can also find people posting about plenty of other conspiracy theories. If you want to talk about those, comment on those threads.

This is the biggest story of our time.

how?

what have you kids read that makes you so 100 percent positive this happened?

Biggest story for those born in 2000*

It's the accumulation of what's been discovered. Certainly some things stand out more than others but it's more than just one 'smoking gun'. If it's not as obvious to you as it is to others maybe you haven't read enough to reach that same tipping point.

It's also the insane levels of pushback from the establishment on this one issue. They're censoring discussion, distracting us with Russia and divisive media tactics, and not reporting current foreign pedo scandals. The wikileaks emails alone were reason to investigate some of these people. The connections that have only grown since those were leaked emphasizes the bigger picture every day.

maybe you haven't read enough to reach that same tipping point.

well, what did you read?

links?

The 5 or so previous elite pedophile rings that have been discovered in the last 30 years or so. So, you could say I had always assumed one was there. I was not surprised in the least bit.

I've read just about every discussion about it as it was happening, and since. And personally read several thousand emails.

But you know what did it for me? Podesta's taste in art. Which isn't proof, but my mind is not a court of law.

link?

Not sure which you are asking me to link to, I kinda think you were wondering about what made me concerned about his taste in art. The first link on this list addresses that.

The rest of these links are my favorites that I have saved in reddit since this started getting talked about. Top is most recent, getting older as you go down. I don't have the links commented or described, so if you are really interested, I would suggest you just click through and see if anything interests you. Have fun:

My personal favorite infographic on Podesta's art preferences, and other weird behavior: https://i.sli.mg/Chk4Af

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUGj5IhepMg

https://web.archive.org/web/20161122041513/https://www.reddit.com/r/pizzagate/comments/5da0kp/comet_ping_pong_pizzagate_summary/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5f90af/evidencebacked_allegations_all_pizza_leads_to/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5g3ywi/for_pizzagate_skeptics/

https://youtu.be/MdP8R7YMiqE

http://archive.is/MrsGu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m87-hM96o

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5dwb3n/to_the_failing_nyt_readers_here_is_a_clear_list/

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5dfz8m/qatar_podesta_koons_a_royal_family_of_kiddy/

http://is.4chan.org/pol/1479367965477.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-F5JoHoho

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/11/huge-breakthrough-in-d-c-pedophilia-ring/

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5b1qtf/comet_ping_pong_pizzagate_summary/

lol, ok.

well the first link is to an imgur post with no reputable sources, just meme-type image/text (...jesus thats just jv level)manipulation. With links that lead to other links that eventually lead to just crazy speculation on some blog. next...

lol, ok. second link is to a reddit post that does mention real pedophiles (sandusky and seville) but then takes these real cases and links them to crazy hyperbolic things like "satanic rituals" oooh...feelin like the 80's again here...btw once again the 'sources' were just opinions on blogs. NEEEXT....

sigh...ok some cute chick does cliched youtube quick edits to punctuate points that once again are not based on anything but speculation from other blogs she has read.

man three links in and im already seeing how "objective" this kid is with his discernment. smh....sigh. next :(

wow....jesus christ im tapping out

its nothing but link after link that leads to other links that always end up in the final source being a blog of speculation

yet still...nothing but speculation and wild extrapolation of vague terms.

i can see where this is going...so gonna click a random one http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/11/huge-breakthrough-in-d-c-pedophilia-ring/

...sigh...goddammit man...im sorry for being snarky. I know it just puts you on your back foot

...but this is all bullshit.

its all vague speculation

bloggers linking to other bloggers as "proof"

your list here ive saved, because it is the perfect example of "fake news"

wake up man...mulder would pity how easily you are manipulated

k

yeah...thats kind of the only answer you guys have when really pressed with true skepticism and logic

That is my response when I want to acknowledge that I received a response and no longer see the value in pursuing the discussion.

because you've met the end of your ability to logically refute me...

you're basically flipping the monopoly board over and stomping away.

ill make it easy

tell me in your own words exactly what you believe is happening here, and one source that was the tipping point for you.

and then, since you're an intelligent and objective person, think of who would benefit from inventing this

because you've met the end of your ability to logically refute me

No, you misunderstand the nature of my side of this conversation. I am not here to convince you, or debate you. I just come here for some quasi-serious chit chat.

tell me in your own words exactly what you believe is happening here, and one source that was the tipping point for you.

I believe there is an entire sub-culture of pedophiles that has remained more or less hidden since the beginning of civilization and exists primarily among the idle rich. I don't think this is aberrant behavior. I think it is standard behavior when humans attain a certain level of wealth, status, and power and have exhausted all other means of feeding the progressive need to entertain and satisfy themselves.

So, pizzagate was never unique to me. This is just another expression of what has been happening forever. There is no tipping point. There is an aggregate of experience that leads me to believe this. If there was anything I could point at, it would be the Jimmy Saville or Jeffrey Epstein stories.

i do believe the elite have been fucking whoever they want for a long time, and there most certainly have been pretty big conspiracies to hide it

but i dont think its that well organized, or that there has been one secret society thats been fucking kids since the dawn of civilization

I think it's interconnected and international, but I don't think they have meetings and give out merit badges. Probably bears a lot of resemblance to drug trafficking.

yup

and i sincerely doubt they are as legion as these rabid kids on here want to believe

whats sad, is that there could be evidence of some shit like this going on, that comes to light in the future

but all these "pizzagate" trolls will have already muddied up the truth so badly that it will be able to be dismissed

my conspiracy theory is that 'pizzagate' was fabricated and built upon by alt-right trolls to 'get' the left

we can pretend its bipartisan but please...this shit all started with the_donald sub

I think it's real man. I wish the name wasn't so silly, it makes it hard to take seriously. But I think this is one of the big ones.

Time might tell.

I think it's real man.

but seriously WHY?

just in your own words tell me

There isn't a smoking gun or golden BB here dude. You have to look at all the evidence and commentary and make up your own mind. The sucky thing is a lot of the most convincing shit was on instagram, and they deleted their accts or made them private.

why is no one willing to say what they think the facts are in their own words?

everyone is so vague

You have occupied enough of my time. Have a good one.

lol

thats about the answer i expected

not one of you can deal with simple questions about your "theories"

what is your theory again?

The anti-conspiracy comments are the worst part of this place. And they are also the main reason I feel like the things we talk about around here touch on way more truth than anyone realizes.

The jokers in the other political subs right now are at best useful idiots. This sub gets 24/7 full court press. It's kind of amazing.

That's why people need to stay safe and anonymous. This is fucking big leagues. They will kill you.

You're taking yourselves way too seriously. Nobody in power is gonna kill someone over talking shit on Reddit.

the irrational shit they say is their best protection.

I'm not sure what your infosec setup is, but unless it's top notch, you are not at all anonymous to those who would kill you for exposing anything like this.

Seriously I'm just shitpostin on my Mac in broad internet man.

"Hey John, the realtor found a handkerchief with a map on it. Could be pizza related." I hate it when I leave my map encrusted handkerchiefs at the local pizzeria who's owner is the 49th most powerful guy in Washington according to GQ magazine. All he does is own a god damn pizza shop and with Antinous the boy lover and other weird shit on his instagram.

He didn't leave the handkerchief at the pizzeria. Alefantis has nothing to do with that e-mail chain. It was left at a rental house after a party. Now, there may be some codes going on here, but we cannot be certain child sacrifice is what's being discussed. I mean come on, it could literally be a map, or it could be a bag of blow or some herb. I'm more intrigued by concrete associations that the Podestas seem to have with pedos like Epstien or Freud.

I didnt say anything about child sacrifice or that Alefantis was part of the email chain. Just looking at all the VERY strange and disturbing coincidences. If you think it has to do with drugs, you clearly haven't looked at whats factually available.

factually available. OK. So, the interpretation that it is about drugs is impossible, but your, much more wild and unfounded speculation is obviously correct. And the literal interpretation, that it is a handkerchief is just complete crazy talk.

Why all the posturing and aggression, op? Let this investigation stand on its own merits and solid, unquestionable evidence. There's no need to bully or threaten people if your case has a leg to stand on, right?

On the other hand, stop being rude to people who are genuinely debunking stuff.

I was attacking the Maddy link in here yesterday, because I genuinely believe it to be bullshit. I brought all my sources to the table.

I was just downvoted, and accused of "defending paedophiles" for logically debunking one aspect of the theory.

Yeah, cheers guys.

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Dude. Did you even read my post?

I was talking about how I was mistreated for debunking a singular aspect, the Maddy link. Just that. Nothing else.

You've somehow interpreted that as "I think all of pizza gate is bullshit and I'm not going to research it". You ok?

I'm not even a denier, and I was among the first 1000 subs to the original reddit sub. I've read all this. I'm not denying it. But when I see a flaw, I'm going to point it out, if that's ok with you?

Sorry you've wasted your (very well sourced, props for that) wall of text on me.

Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

I have never seen a "conspiracy" so aggressively attacked.

Me neither. And I am a skeptic. However the fact that this conspiracy theory is being directly attacked by many in the MSM is a bit chilling.

Take 9-11 truthers for example. People would argue with them online, but in the media, it was mostly just shrugged off or laughed at.

Now the media is aggressively attacking Pizzagate, Social Media is censoring the hell out of it, and congress is passing legislation to expand its power of censorship under this entire fake psyop narrative of Russian Hacking and Russian Propaganda.

THAT has given more credibility to this theory that all of the independent investigation combined.

Pizzagate gained traction because people were calling Comet Pizza. Comet Pizza guy goes to press to beg them to stop. Guy goes to Comet and fires gun, automatically making the surrounding situation something to be looked and explained to the majority of the population who doesn't even know this theory exists. Press reports on it because it's bizarre and is now a trending topic on social media (and probably a fun article to write, honestly). Press debunks theory but it only falls on deaf ears by people who say things like M$M and get their news from disreputable sites. Pizzagaters unsatisfied because they only hear what they want to hear. Anything other than a site or comment saying "pizzagate is real" is ignored or included in a massive list of Shills, which is approximately 90% of the population, apparently.

this still isn't the first time conspiracy theory has resulted in real life harassment.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-28/sandy-hook-massacre-victims-parents-harassed-by-truthers/7546536

These things get mentioned on the news, but do not result in widespread media coverage, or an entire push to enter a new phrase into the political lexicon (fake news).

Like I said I am skeptical of pizzagate. But I DO think it is being used to push for more hardcore censorship on the internet.

I can see pizzagate being used as some kind of way to advance a bill of some kind, because Congress. Any idea if they're actively doing that?

no fucking clue. Like I said I am personally skeptical of pizzagate. It's a lot of really suspicious stuff about two particularly gross /creepy brothers (the Podestas) and other DC insiders, and it's certainly plausible, but nowhere near enough hard evidence for me to sink my teeth into.

On the flip side, would be really damn easy to make this sort of thing a false flag out of thin air. All these reddit and 4chan accounts are anonymous. Manufacture a bogus theory, send some patsy with a gun to do no real damage but cause a scene, and now you have a massive crackdown.

I know enough about shit to know I can't know the truth. That's why I've kept pizzagate off my FB and other public feeds, I'm not confident enough in this theory to go preach it.

I'm not sure, but this is potentially relevant to your question:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/house-bill-russian-propaganda/

I question ALL narratives. Questioning this one does not mean I don't question mainstream media too. The majority of people here only question certain narratives it seems.

"Pizzagate deniers"

ok

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I read real, properly sourced scholarly articles you condescending douchebag. You want me to take your youtube videos at face value? Okay.

The burden of proof is yours, not mine. You conspiracy lunatics are so convinced that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence that you don't realize how god damned gullible you are. But sure, call us sheep.

Have fun talking to pedophiles on the dark web you fucking creep

Spam. Removed. Final warning for spamming this same comment 30 times here since yesterday.

I haven't posted it since I was first asked by another Mod to stop spamming it.

I can't disagree more. R/conspiracy should not be some echochamber for conspiracy theories. Every theory should be dissected, criticized and analyzed meticulously. There should be vigorous debate and discussion. If a theory has merit, it will stand up to closer scrutiny. If it's bullshit, it should be discarded until further evidence suggests otherwise

By calling for us to stand united in our defense of pizzagate, you are asking for there to be a new established narrative. You are asking for dissent to be diminished. In short, you want a safe space.

Fuck the safe space I say. Prove your theories or GTFO.

Prove your theories or GTFO.

A-fucking-men. They call posting memes "investigating".

They call posting memes "investigating".

Once you realize that /r/The_Donald was the brainchild of the same Bush admin cheerleader who created /r/Conspiratard, the picture begins to crystallize. Trolololo!!!

Woah is this true?

• https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4mtfoh/psa_rthe_donald_was_created_by_the_same_person/

Pizzagate is important as a conspiracy.

It is a model for critical thinking, and problem solving. It may not go anywhere. And critical thinkers, and problem solvers will come to that conclusion through research.

To deny peoples right to investigate this (in this specific case) is potentially you endorsing pedophilia and human trafficking.

As in any case of conspiracy, skepticism is elementary, and often overlooked. However do not equivocate skepticism of a conspiracy with conclusion of debunkment.

shhhh, dont point out how stupid they look, they will take your advice and get better at lying to the people.

at least right now they are so bad at it they are blatantly obvious they are part of the whole thing

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

It's pretty funny actually, think about what you are doing...

Yeah, I'm still asking questions and thinking for myself. Like you said, conspiracy theorist.

What you're doing is blindly jumping on one bandwagon. Think about that for a second. We've got a group of people on this sub who are all firmly convinced that "they on to something".

Then what, make a big enough noise an maybe change the world into a better place?

Since when is anybody ever exactly right about anything? Imagine if you're right about most of the story except for one or two key details? If you step back and look at the facts, what are the facts? Evidence is either vague or circumstantial. Level of outrage is high. People, acting emotionally, are naming names, posting personal info, making accusations, threats etc.

As a conspiracy theorist, I posted a theory that this is a deliberate psyop. Hegelian dialectic... problem> reaction> solution. The pedophilia is probably there... all I'm suggesting is that someone could be using this issue in a way that furthers their own agenda.

Fake news is the problem. So run a psyop, use Pizzagate to drive people nuts and threaten/attack someone. This result in the general public seeing "fake news" as a problem. They'll then call out for "something to be done". Then TPTB can take whatever steps they like to go after every site and every subreddit... including this one. It seems like a valid enough theory, but most people don't want to consider this possibility.

So, maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Or maybe you've been had and you're using the rope they've given you to hang yourself.

If you have trouble accepting this, that is no surprise. As Mark Twain once said, "It's easier to fool most people than it is to convince them they've been fooled."

They want more control over the internet and they're using the Pizzagate hysteria to convince the mainstream public that more control is necessary. Does anyone remember when Obama said this in October, right before Pizzagate broke?

"We are going to have to rebuild within this wild-wild-west-of-information flow some sort of curating function that people agree to," Obama said at an innovation conference in Pittsburgh.

"There has to be, I think, some sort of way in which we can sort through information that passes some basic truthiness tests and those that we have to discard, because they just don't have any basis in anything that's actually happening in the world," Obama added.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-decries-wild-west-media-landscape-214642552.html

During the election I remember various media figures blaming Trump's rise on internet misinformation and specifically on Facebook's trending news algorithm promoting biased alt-right sites, so the claim that the 'fake news' talk is a response to Pizzagate revelations is bogus. Pizzagate is being used (or was manufactured as propaganda from the beginning, the more terrifying possibility) to reinforce a narrative that had already been established.

What are the most compelling evidences that Pizzagate is real? All I could gather were just evidences not real proofs. Just for you to know I am a conspiracy theorist, I just need more proof than "they areposting dubious shit!" Or "Look at their art! Disgusting!" Something like the rooms that were found in the pizzaria, but more substantial, you know?

Sincerely, someone

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

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The integrity of this sub. Look, alot of people just feel like pizza gate is just wild accusations with no proof. You looked at 30000+ emails, found maybe 3 that everyone will agree are weird, but I'm sure there's another explanation than "massive secret pedophilia ring". If I looked at 30000 email from you and your colleagues I'm certain I could come up with some kind of conspiracy based on weird lingo you use inappropriately.

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Then why, more than literally any other conspiracy theory in history, are so many people so desperate to shut that one down?

LOL.

do you not think that the perpetrators would be extremely careful to attempt to remove all possible evidence of their crimes?

Yet Podesta is so unconcerned about a potentially explosive piece of evidence like a Satanic jizz and blood-encrusted handkerchief... he not only didn't want it back, but he was content to allow a Martha's Vineyard realtor to do whatever she wanted with it?

You don't see any circular logic in your statement? 1. Make wild accusations about someone being bad 2. Someone questions your accusations and evidence 3. Accuse them of protecting bad person

This 1) assumes number 1 is true and 2) assumes that asking for evidence = protecting someone

This is comically bad logic.

• https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

1- You're not doing anything valuable in a conspiracy subreddit. 2- No matter how right you think you are, you still sound crazy af. This is, after all, a conspiracy sub. 3- Your right to believe in wacko conspiracy theories does not equal to having a right to be heard. Any private agency has the right to ban your content. Choosing not to perpetuate your conspiracy theory is not equal to being a part of that conspiracy. 4- Again: you're not doing anything valuable in a conspiracy subreddit, unless you consider making late night monologue material 'valuable'.

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Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

I'm not gonna say pedophilia and human trafficking doesn't exist, because I know it does. I also know that in my entire lifetime- no matter what party I aligned with at any given time- right wing conspiracy theorists have never been right about anything. Not even once.

right wing conspiracy theorists have never been right about anything.

don't worry rwers are denying pizzagate now too cuz of trump being an Epstein pal.

OP talks more sense than you.

I find it amusing that this is being silenced but we got people here talking about replacements and UFOs.

It's sad, really. Someone should start /r/conspiracy2 (if it doesn't already exist) and ban Pizzagate so we can talk about real shit again.

we've needed one ever since r/t_d infiltrated

I don't trust anyone with an 'Agenda' other then the truth. To me, #Pizzagate has had a political agenda behind it since day one, so I don't trust it.

Pizzagate is a sickness and/or it's being pushed by people who want to make people ill as a result of it, namely those who are already severely depressed and/or extremely anxious with the state of the world to the point that they're nearing psychosis. Unfortunately, Edgar M. Welch was one such victim, hopefully there won't be others who reach that level of instability.

I get you. Some people just think that you are able to critically evaluate sources.

Validity of Circumstantial Evidence There are popular misconceptions surrounding the validity of circumstantial evidence, as many people believe it is not as convincing as direct evidence. In reality, circumstantial evidence is an important tool used by prosecutors to convict people. Circumstantial evidence, which can be derived from a variety of sources, can be used to lay a foundation of belief, and backed up by witness testimony and direct evidence for credibility.

http://legaldictionary.net/circumstantial-evidence/

From my perspective the investigation (if it were to actually happen) would do the "backing up" as it applies here. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence already, the investigation by the appropriate authorities would take it the rest of the way (to whatever conclusion it leads to).

something is brewing, folks.

looks like they are panicking. reddit layout is fucked up. and why is it case sensitive now?

Believe what you want, I don't care either way. But can we please stop calling it Pizzagate? It sounds ridiculous. The only GATE is the Watergate hotel. Slapping gate on to the end of another word is meaningless and lazy. Call it what it is, a scandal, even Watergate was referred to as "The Watergate Scandal". When you use terminology like this you undermine ANY shred of credibility you may have. Just because it's a conspiracy hypothesis don't mean you have to go out of your way to make it sound like one. When you do that you lose a whole lot of people that may have listened and now will go out of their way to distance themselves from you and your brand of crazy. It's about appearances. It's about credibility. If people would have referred to this stuff as something like "The DNC Child sex abuse scandal" it probably would have gotten actual fucking reporters interested enough. But no, you fuckers had to try to make it sound fancy or shadow-governmenty. Also, leave Pizza alone, you're giving it a bad name and that pisses me off, shits delicious.

Hey pizza gaters, would you please link me to the 5 most suspicious pizza gate related emails? I looked and found nothing but could be overlooking it.

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OK, I have no idea why you are responding with hostility. I merely asked a question. I appreciate you taking the time to respond but there was no need to assume I am the enemy or unwilling to try to learn. This is all new to me. Maybe you've been reading related things for years but my interests have been elsewhere. Thanks, will try to catch up a bit now.

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you its a copy paste post I've been working on.

No worries, I do appreciate it. Will take me a few days to read through the whole thing in my spare time.

re: emails, i see confirmation bias on the part of the conspiracy theorists. i am trying to keep an open mind, really but:

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55433 - sounds like a dinner party and someone left a hankerchief behind. if it was evidence to a crime, why email about it? just throw it away. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 - more dinner parties https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30613 - someone who normally sends a gift with pasta sent a harry and david-ish cheese gift and intends to share it with relatives. they play dominos and normally eat pasta first but this time will have cheese. old people talking about boring games and food is what i see.

re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code

if you google practically anything you can find someone somewhere has tied it to a phrase related to sex. not kidding. try it.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmKEMI4Ja4

Is Peaches a secret pedophile now too?

Spam. Removed. Same comment 30 times here.

where did the reply go? i didn't even get a chance to read the whole thing :(

I'm on my mobile and can't link right now but if you search through the pizzagate posts on here you'll there are several that have all the links you need.

anyone know where I can get extra parmesan on my ravioli ;) ;)

Love this post, agreed!

Well that sucks if people are coming on here and telling you to stop. I don't believe pizzagate, but I know none of my sources would ever convince you, as yours would likely never convince me, so why bother arguing?

What I want to know is, how does an investigation proceed? What agency or body of law enforcement is going to come and investigate? If no one is going to investigate, then what happens - what becomes the goal or aim?

If you just keep talking about it, that's not nothing, but if no one is going to 'save the children' that are locked up, what's the point?

Thank you! The media here didn't really cover any of this.

The fact that you lead with the permanence of the controversy, and how it's of great import to just keep the idea just hanging around, even though no sudden revelations are being found or investigated beyond the initial rounds of file dripping, rabid sniffing, conclusion leaping, and unverified FBI pedo checklist memes (aside from one guy losing his shit and firing a rifle in the pizza place, basically what I fear anyone too far gone in conspiratorial bias-confirming thought might be driven to under extreme conditions) is a little suspect, I have to admit. Want to laugh in my face? Start looking at Trump and Russia, stop worrying about bizarre art and the right-wing goggle syndrome. They would be quite pleased that so many of our minds are working on this case and being perpetually disturbed at the same time.

Honestly, I think some of these people who seem like bots may actually be real people freaking the fuck out.

My mother is a good example. Usually I spout off some comments or talking points from my side a the aisle and my parents just shake their heads at me but don't get upset. They watch MSM, particularly CNN, all day every day. Anyways, I mentioned Pizzagate, and the fact that I researched it myself - I didn't just read some "fake news" as my mom put it. Dude.... She freaked the fuck out to the point I had to leave. She had a wild look in her eyes, teary, as the aggressively told me not to talk about such things - she likes Hillary and she doesn't want to hear it. I left and texted her that I was sorry for upsetting her - it's my mom, I don't want to fight at that level. She then texted me back the following wall of text: " Hillary would have won the election if fake news reports and the FBI letters! Women will never have the top positions as long as people believe the fake news! The pizza parlor mentioned in the fake email did not even have a basement! Hillary is a lawyer that has always protected children! Trump is going to be our president! Hillary is too old to run in four years, so I'm praying for Elizabeth Warren to step up to the challenge because there is not any strong women that can fill her shoes in politics! I'm sorry you do not have the same political beliefs - I'm just mad that people keep passing on fake stories like their true! "

So yeah, there are a lot of brainwashed peeps out there spouting off the news talking points like their lives depend on it.

That's a parent finding out their kid is batshit nuts lol

Lol - I'm not a kid.

I'm generally a skeptic. I don't believe 80-90% of the stuff posted on this sub.

But it's clear the pizza comments in those emails, etc are code for something other than delicious fast food. So why doesn't Podesta, etc, come out and state what the actual code is for, if not children? Surely that would clear it up immediately?

Nothing can be worse than the theory going around, even if they were being racist, sexist, or even using codenames for non-millionaire plebs. So it baffles me why they haven't explained their code.

It leads to only 1 explanation: The theory is correct.

• John Podestra / Indenti-kit photo of one of Madelline McCann's abductors

http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/John-Podesta-next-to-sketch.jpg

• Tony Podestra / Indenti-kit photo of one of Madelline McCann's abductors

http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Tony-next-to-sketch.jpg

• Besta Pizza symbol two stores down from Comet is owned by former DOJ employee Andrew Kline of the human trafficking unit – a position he was appointed to by Bill Clinton.

• WTF photo from Mr James Alefantis', the owner of Comet Pizza's, twitter page

https://dcpizzagate.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/gross1.png

• photos from the Instagram of a Comet Ping Pong employee, "Josh" (or "Josh Uaryuanv"?). Each photo has it's location as - not at the employee's home, or elsewhere in the city - but at his workplace, Comet Ping Pong

https://dcpizzagate.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/image2-1.png

https://dcpizzagate.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/pizzacum1.png

https://dcpizzagate.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/mmmpizza.png

• a poster for an "All Ages Show" at Comet Pizza by a group under the name "Sex Stains"

https://dcpizzagate.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/sexstains.png

• James Alefantis has now professed on multiple platforms that Comet “doesn’t even have a basement”, yet just last year in an interview with Metro Weekly, he specifically said “Like our sauce — we harvest a whole crop of organic tomatoes — 10 tons of tomatoes every year. Can them all, store them in the basement…”.

• the IMDB page of the fake shooter at Comet Pizza

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2625901/

• unrelated, but you have to see this:

https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/2016/11/07/first-blog-post/bar/

Credits: these are all taken from here: https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

Also: a pastebin of links is here: http://pastebin.com/HY9N3rc3

They do it for a dollar bill. Plain and simple. Why else? What could they be promised? Really Really think about that... what else could they be promised besides money? Are these senators or congress members spewing this dis-info? What are these shills promised? I guess instead of a making this a statement;I turned it into a question... what are these shills promised? So dear Mr. or Mrs. shill,can you do an AMA? I just want to understand what else they could be possibly receiving besides a cash income of some sort? Eternal life??? Ummm I mean they are gullible enough to be told something and not check or read for themselves and just let themselves be taken swift into the current as to say.

I had 1 prick on youtube commenting on a PG video saying "if men are married with kids then why would they be peadophiles"... i sighed and put my face in my hands while shaking my head. Do your research!!!

I'm not overexagerating one bit when I say this but I truly can't tell the difference between a msm shill, a bot or a person echoing media narratives. It's all frankly starting to sound exactly the same and blending quiete nicely. I'd be ashamed to my core to know my belief is formed by a media we all known for years is untrustable and I go out of my way to push that agenda. Talk about being a tool. Seriously get lost trolls. You are truly depressing to observe as human behavior. Go back to your safe space where your algorithms, bots and media can make you feel all fussy inside again. You don't belong with the bright minds. Out out out.

http://findingassange.com/?i=1

With the release of this website as well as the information that is soon to be published many people are going to start asking questions. I am going to take a minute to address a few questions but will not follow up with anything more after this.

The entire mission of this website FindingAssange.com started as a website to avoid the censorship of the mainstream platforms, to allow people to gather & share information regarding Julian Assange's disappearance and everything that came with that, such as PizzaGate. The site was plagued with many problems that prevented its launch to what it was originally intended to be.

As many are aware Julian Assange has been missing since at least October 17th, Wikileaks has been compromised and the government propaganda news organizations such as CNN have created an entirely false narrative that Russia hacked or interfered with the US election process and now the CIA is backing up these ridiculous claims while under the head of no one other than John O. Brennan who owes his entire career to the democratic party, Obama and the Clintons. Has Iraq tought us nothing about what the CIA says?

This is of course untrue and false information that grossly threatens the democracy of the United States, its national security and the security of the world.

A facebook group was created called "Where is Julian Assange?" from said group a number of people involved started investigating very heavily into all of the details surrounding Assange's disappearance as well as the information that was being tampered with on Wikileaks file system. During their investigation, they were able to extract 15,000 John Podesta emails that were never published as well as discovered the passwords to two of the WikiLeaks Insurance files when one member successfully broke into the email system used by the original members of Wikileaks.

The lead person running the investigation decided what they had found was too risky to release, if Assange was still alive and these were the only things keeping him alive, he would surely be killed as well as had concerns for his own safety.

They immediately stopped investigating any further after only having a chance to review less than 1/5th of the contents and decided it was best to let the professional activists do what they do best to avoid becoming targets themselves by these very dangerous people. As time progressed we reached the point we are at today, The US Government is continuing to engage in pushing this very false information and the truth must be exposed.

The lead member of the investigation from the Facebook group has decided to move forward with releasing all of the information uncovered as if Assange was around he would want nothing more than to protect the safety of the people of the United States but also the entire world from these dangerous politically motivated actions these people are about to make on false information and the free spread of information under freedom of the press.

This brings us to today the very early morning of December the 13th, when this site is now live. Everything has been put in place to ensure the distribution of this information is successful and the world will soon know the truth about all the dirty actions of Obama's Administration, the Clintons and the rest of their group of "elites". The information uncovered will be published here at FindingAssange.com for download as well as emailed to 125 unbiased journalists personal email addresses and another 50 media outlets as well as copies of everything have been provided to 15 activists to ensure its release. We as the people must stand up, speak out and not let these inhumane, illegal actions continue.

With that I leave you with a quote from Thomas Jefferson

"A Little Rebellion Now and Then is a Good Thing"

This is fake as fuck.

People have to be either willfully ignorant or brainwashed to not see any truth or even concern in the idea of what is happening.

Hi everyone, I just stumbled across this sub, and I've never heard of pizzagate, so I did a little research on it. It sounds kinda ridiculous, why do you you guys think it's legit? I'm not saying it isn't real, but could someone explain it to me/give me facts to back it up?

-Just your average, media believing (mostly) American

thousands of paid trolls denying it = it must be true

It's pretty funny actually, think about what you are doing. You're literally coming onto a conspiracy sub, discouraging an independent investigation and protecting the Elite

Employees of Comet Ping Pong are "the Elite"? Shop owners on the same street as CPP are "Elite". Children who's pictures are being circulated around the Internet are "Elite"? Parents accused of whoring their children out to Washington insiders are "Elite"?

Are they deserving of death threats? Should they have to deal with protesters at their workplace? Should they be targets of stalking and harassment on social media?

These are the people who's lives are being ruined by your witch hunt.

Ignoring even the slightest chance that these kids could be in danger is stupid and selfish.

From the sub that loudly and proudly states Sandy Hook was a hoax, this is fucking rich. Excuse the rest of us if we collectively roll our eyes at your newfound compassion for children.

Your "citizens investigation" is leaving little kids behind as collateral damage. I'm sure they are all going to just love having pedophilia accusations turn up every time someone googles them or their parents. I'm sure no one will ever use this bullshit to bully any of them.

The only thing pg believers can agree on is that kids were being used for sex. Some think it's a Satan worship thing (lol), some think they are holding kiddie porn parties in the basement of comet ping pong and others think pizza means young boys.

I've seen the evidence. Yeah there's some weird "artwork ", and it is for sure questionable. But it doesn't mean they are fucking/sacrificing/torturing children. Some dude even walked into the place with a gun but still found nothing even though he had unlimited access while he was there! And don't give me that shit about him being an actor, there is absolutely ZERO evidence to support that. The IMDB entry was added after the event.

And now pg believers are antagonizing the non believers. Some of you reading this will believe anything as long as it furthers your worldview.

But the community always rallies around a random pizza shop owned by the 49th most powerful man in DC who's visited the White House a dozen-ish times. Nothing to see here! /s

I will continue to fight against censorship of pizzagate and defend your right to talk about it openly without unfair opposition.

I will also continue to express my disappointment with the poor quality of research behind pizzagate, and will recognize that your continued insistence on this narrative is fueling their justification for further censorship.

If we're having to stand against media censorship because of what you've latched on to, don't ask us to shut up. We eventually just might. That benefits no one. So be respectful of other opinions on the research and be willing to consider what you have from other angles, rather than deciding a conclusion and forcing the information to conform to it.

Researching a conspiracy theory does not mean that you get to shout your opinions as facts without having to listen to the opinions of others. You have a right to speak, you don't have a right to an audience. You still do have an audience. If you really care about the subject matter, about the child abuse you claim the evidence relates to, don't aim to lose your audience. Be more objective, that's all I ask. Remember that "I can't explain this" is absolutely not equal to "This fits my conclusion."

The fact that people in countries across the world are taking this more seriously than the average American is pretty sad for America...though encouraging for the world because this is a worldwide problem.

I just can't say it enough, America, "land of the free", get a clue. You are going to pay the price for looking the other way while this is happening in your own government.

I'm actually surprised none of them had the balls to check the dumpster full of bones and the trash bags for DNA!

You don't know what evidence is.

I read real, properly sourced scholarly articles you condescending douchebag. You want me to take your youtube videos at face value? Okay.

The burden of proof is yours, not mine. You conspiracy lunatics are so convinced that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence that you don't realize how god damned gullible you are. But sure, call us sheep.

Have fun talking to pedophiles on the dark web you fucking creep

do you not think that the perpetrators would be extremely careful to attempt to remove all possible evidence of their crimes?

Yet Podesta is so unconcerned about a potentially explosive piece of evidence like a Satanic jizz and blood-encrusted handkerchief... he not only didn't want it back, but he was content to allow a Martha's Vineyard realtor to do whatever she wanted with it?

lol John Podesta is a "fucking pizza restaurant" interesting theory right there to be sure.

Chur boy's Twitter is blowin up right now.

OK bud, obviously you have made up your mind about this, I am still open to more information. After reviewing your posts you are clearly vehemently opposed to Trump, so you may have some extra incentive to discredit the "fake news" from the "alt-right"...but there are many of us, who wish this would of been uncovered about Trump himself, including myself. I bet if it was you wouldn't be so opposed to the concept of it.

Edit: words are hard

I already explained what I thought those emails meant the last time you pasted this.

Then why, more than literally any other conspiracy theory in history, are so many people so desperate to shut that one down?

LOL.

I'll give you that there is really no factual evidence, only speculation, but I just wish he would address the questions regarding his emails rather than letting the public come to their own conclusions. Another very interesting excerpt from the wiki leaks emails I would like more clarity on is "Do you think I'll do better playing dominos on cheese than pasta?"...wtf does that even mean 🤔

Wasn't Antinous Hadrian's child lover? Interesting choice when you consider the rest of the content.

I'll admit though that Susan Handler Kathryn Tate exchange makes it more convoluted, but how do we know exactly who these people are?

Probably a lot. I'm not expert on corporate catering/large scale events, but for someone to come out to DC from Chicago, I would assume they would factor in closing their business for 2-3 days, to allow travel time and set up for their cooks, costs to rent a space to prepare the food(While I'm sure the White House has a large kitchen that can handle things like banquets, cooking things like pizzas takes time and large pizza ovens, so they may have even rented a local pizza place for the day to utilize their ovens, and the cost of that place being out of business for a day would factor in), etc...

Since it's Tax-Payer money, double the price, because tax payer money isn't "real" and can be spent willy nilly.

Spam. Removed. Final warning for spamming this same comment 30 times here since yesterday.

Basically, the things people are saying recently make them look as credible as the lizard-people theorists.

There is a difference between theorizing about ancient alien civilizations and pushing the lizard/reptilian nonsense. Anyone who understands math and the universe can tell you the high likelihood of aliens existing and possibly coming to visit earth or being here in the past.

I've been here since the very beginning of r/conspiracy and I can tell you definitively that the only times lizards/reptilians are brought up are in theoretical or pejorative examples. The whole "reptilians are shapeshifters that rule everything" meme is pure disinfo GARBAGE...and is very VERY rare on this sub.

So why mention it when it only exists as a meme?

Rule 6. Removed.

Outburst aside- that does raise an interesting question.

The white house doesn't allow outside catering.

Even if it did, why the hell would Obama of all people be the one to place the order?

As someone who doesn't necessarily believe the entire pizzagate narrative, but who has read most of the stuff and think there is at least something unsettling afoot... this isn't the line that will win people over.

It’s just a foodie making a humorous drugs allusion about the foods he likes. I drink a lot of Vanilla Coke, so it would be like me saying “Do you think I’ll do better at playing chess on RedBull than on Vanilla Coke?”

Except the codes he uses are linked the pedophilia codes? Just a foodie lol. What else am I gonna hear next? You people (if that's what you are) are getting lamer and easier to see through. You are just making an ass out of yourself.

Lies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3560069/The-symbols-pedophiles-use-signal-sordid-sexual-preferences-social-media.html

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols

Wikileaks is a troll now too right? For the love of god just do some research before spreading your non-sense.