You are suppose to believe there is a push to make people transgener, why do you believe it?

Do you really think large or significant numbers of people can be simply persuaded to change sexual identity?

This is an issue unseen because it's generational in nature & it is been normalized & pushed on kids before any research is being done to determine if its a genetic abnormality.

This video was sent to me by an alleged trans person as proof that what trans people feel is real.

They deleted their comment when i pointed out that the research the professor is talking about must likely has found an effect in the brain that could very well be the cause rather than a sign used to prove the persons gender dysphoria.....the agenda is targeting kids & the people doing it are victims in this as much as anybody.

Do you really think large or significant numbers of people can be simply persuaded to change sexual identity?

Anyone who feels this way would only feel this way if they themselves feel they themselves may be persuaded. Like the homophobic gay people who are actually the most homophobic of all.

I support LGBQ, I drop the T. My main oppostiton to the new trend is how people are using their kids who are younger than 10 to show how progressive they are. They say their kids want to be trans, the kid is 10. All he/she cares about are friends, school, gossip, sports and whatever else kids are into. Not being 8 and making a decision to become a girl or boy.

Adults can make whatever decisions they want. You're an adult, its your right. But don't bash me because I used the wrong pronoun. How the fuck am I supposed to know what you want to be called one second to another?

There's a pretty big difference between trans people and the Tumblr genderfluid, otherkin, etc.

Maybe that's just my ignorance coming out. I live in a place with a decent LGBQ community but I think there is only 1 trans person here.

That you know of

Ha. Fuck you. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I'm a bigot. But as the left has established, if you are not with us then you are against us.

Just googled Otherkin. Haha, WTF?

No kidding. Luv that 7-sided star symbol too. /s

I don't use any of those pronouns. "My pronouns are blah blah blah" fuck that. You're not that special. Breh

Why is basic politeness so offensive to you?

Why do you think so many of your arguments reduce huge issues down to small character attacks?

Respecting other people is a character issue though. Most LGBT advocacy boils down to "let them live their lives in peace and be reasonably polite to them in public." That's only a huge issue because there's a big group of people who somehow find it incredibly offensive.

Yeah but we have laws for people that harm others, even, indirectly, and we have emotions that turn into social structures for things that harm society directly, which is why there's a stigma in most places around the world surrounding the various disorders (if you define order as a productive and sustainable society) which you now champion. I'm not saying we should shame gay people because of how they were born, but maybe we shouldn't allow various forms of societal neutering to be made fashionable by the MSM at large. You're gonna second-hand-care us into the grave, man.

There's a tiny portion of people born with gender dysphoria, its not societal neutering to let them live happy and productive lives. That so many people think being nice to people who've been dealt a relatively shit hand in life is a threat to civilization makes no sense, and the irrationality and vitriol in that position is why its so commonly reduced to a character issue.

Yeah, there really are only a few trans people. Just like black people only make up 10% of the population, yet when you search for any generic term like "family", or "doctor", or "inventor", all you get are results with black people. You keep implanting hatred into everyone who disagrees with you, but it seems to me that you're the one ignoring the arguments you don't like and condescending to those who would dare question you.

when you search for any generic term like "family", or "doctor", or "inventor"

The fuck? Where are you doing these searches.

There's a small percentage of people whose brains do not align in the usual way with their genitalia. Being polite to those people (such as using their preferred pronouns, the comment I originally replied to) and respecting their ability to participate in society despite the particulars of their birth should not be some huge ask of a moral person. That people like you feel compelled to "well actually" and go to great lengths to defend people's inalienable right to be assholes to transpeople without consequence is something that's hard to wrap my head around. I'm sure you've got your reasons, but a hatred of transpeople is far and away the most coherent and rational explanation for why someone would protect such vitriol.

They should feel lucky to participate in society and, like the rest of us, attempt to make things easier for everyone, not stop the nation to fundamentally alter the way we use language.

Hey try forming an argument for trans people without using the words "hatred", "vitriol", and other derivations of "you're a monster so I win". Let's see how it changes things, just for laughs.

You're the one who brought up hatred.

As scientific knowledge advances, language should reflect that. It doesn't, or it least it shouldn't, stop the nation for people to acknowledge the physical reality of people's bodies. If we are to "attempt to make things easier for everyone," as you say, we should allow people to get treatment for medical conditions, and not force them to pretend they've never gotten such treatment.

That enough of a laugh for you?

Nah man, if you'll reread, it was you that brought up hatred, like every time you reply to someone you disagree with.

It doesn't, or it least it shouldn't, stop the nation

But it does. It's people not meekly saying "I would most humbly appreciate you using my name, sir. It would mean ever so much to me", but instead it's people frothing at the mouth, demanding legal recourse, when someone calls them "sir" instead of "xir". It's small, and petty, and forced, and damaging to the fabric of society, which seems like an alien concept in today's world. "The fabric of society"... lol We're all so selfish, now. Like how that old parable goes "a society can be said to be great when its old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never enjoy". We are so far from that. We're, like, ripping down all the shade trees and calling it fair.

it's people frothing at the mouth, demanding legal recourse, when someone calls them "sir" instead of "xir".

No, its not. Its really, really, not. Whatever rag you're getting that from is making shit up.

If you actually want to plant trees you know you won't enjoy, try erring on the side of being kind to people. It seems like instead you're just going out of your way to defend people who are gleeful about deliberatively misgendering people.

I mean they're talking about making it a crime to not recognize new pronouns in some places. That's not asking, that's not coming at people with reason, that's seeking that it be made illegal to question you. Perhaps not frothing at the mouth in every case, no, but this certainly does not come from a good place. I'm not attacking anyone, dude.

You can find someone talking about whatever you want if look hard enough, that really doesn't mean much.

When your say "new pronouns" are you talking about the xir bullshit you cited earlier? I know a ton of trans people, that's absolutely not a thing. Using the appropriate he/she really isn't that big an ask, especially if you're going to have any sort of extended contact with that person.

I mean, nice try, but this whole thread started with you taking issue with another user's refusal to use new pronouns, not calling a dude she and a lady he if they want.

No, I was responding to a comment that said:

But don't bash me because I used the wrong pronoun. How the fuck am I supposed to know what you want to be called one second to another?

Followed by one that said:

"My pronouns are blah blah blah" fuck that. You're not that special.

There's nothing about xir or whatever other fantasies are in your head there, just a simple refusal to acknowledge people's gender. And you saying its about "calling a dude she and a lady he" shows you're still deliberately flaunting science and basic human decency. It's midnight here, if you're going to be this disingenuous I'm just going to go to sleep.

Why do you care?

Because I exist?

The odds are none of your kids are trans, but their biology is what it is and forcing them to lie about it isn't in their best interest.

Do you have a problem with them thinking some of those kids could be gay, which is a real possibility? Or do you think gay people have "agendas" too?

Maybe you should talk to your kids instead of us then

Something is fundamentally wrong about 7&8 year olds being transgender

I would say something is fundamentally wrong about forcing 7 and 8 year olds to comply with arbitrary bullshit gender norms. What advantage is there to forcing your son to have short hair? What advantage is there to forcing your daughter to play with dolls?

Well, if you are a religious dogma believer it could make you feel more comfortable that you are doing what you can to influence the choice of homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Dogma is to blame for the belief that homosexuality is a choice. If you believe God said its wrong, either its a choice or God is draconian and unfair. Who would want to worship or even follow such a being? This is how religious people come to believe homosexuality is a choice, this unacknowledged logic.

Genetics, biology. We teach humans behavioral traits associated with ideas that would likely apply to their not so distant future. Jobs, careers, armies, technology, towns, states, nations and so on all exists to support the most important job, motherhood.

No where in your original post did you say anything about little kids.

I personally think transgender people are mentally ill.

I personally think conservatism is a mental illness. Good thing our thoughts don't dictate reality.

Why don't you believe in storing up for the Winter or saving money for the future?

because welfare

Is a fair Cop.

They obviously mean the political philosophy in America that claims to want small government, but actually wants big government when it comes to oppressing women/minorities and creating illegal wars around the globe. Being glib is not the same thing as being right.

Why did you just conflate sexual identity with a political leaning? So it IS about politics and control to you, not about altruism after all?

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Thank you.

:-)

Yay, hate!

I didn't say I hate them. I gave my opinion. Big difference.

Your opinion is that you think they're mentally ill. Sounds like hate to me.

No. You are wrong. That is not hate.

How could it not be? Professionals dedicate their entire careers to understanding gender and sexuality. The American Psychological Association has information freely available that explains being transgendered is not a mental illness:

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Yet you seem to know better than every doctor, psychologist, or even trans people themselves?

You seem to have no problem going on the internet and shaming this community as being mentally ill. Why? Because they're different? Have you ever met a trans person?

Get a life. Seriously.

Just please read what I wrote. There are so many trans people that suffer every day because we perpetuate the lie that they're mentally ill. You're not a bad person, but you are spreading a hateful sentiment. It's hurtful to these human beings who just want to live their lives.

Please read the definition of hate so that you onto go around spouting it at anyone who doesn't parrot what you believe.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hate

Stating someone trans might be mentally ill isn't hate. Saying you want trans people to die, that's hate.

40% of post op transsexuals obviously continue to suffer as they attempt to kill themselves, because chopping your dick off is surprisingly not the cure to mental illness.

That statistic is inaccurate and it's a vicious cop out. Trans people do not continue to have a higher rate of suicide because of just one reason. Suicide in general is not a response to one circumstance. When you've suffered a violent (yes, actually violent) social stigma your entire life, along with the mental anguish of dysphoria, and more often than not severe poverty and lack of mental health resources... yeah, you're going to be pretty fucking unstable.

This sub will hyperanalyze everything but its own circlejerking.

Your brain has a disease as well. How will the establishment convince you against natural order next?

When movie stars start having relationships with inanimate objects and animals are you going to step up and fight people that call them brain damaged? I know it's different and. It applicable but the trans movement is a foot in the door to a whole new world of problems. It's a construct of a manipulated society.

You sound gullible and ignorant.

My issue with this is the fact that people are teaching children it's "okay to pick a gender" that's a huge pile of bullshit and a big potential underlying cause for further mental trauma.

If anything this whole thing is making the mental issue even worse and compounding it. We should be focusing on this issue rather than ignoring facts and continue to push for it to be okay for children to choose their gender.

There are only 2 genders, that's it. Where's the confusion?

That's strange because until 2012 the medical community did in fact consider it a mental illness. See DSM 4 versus DSM 5.

You don't think science and medicine has made advances since 2012? You don't think research is going on all the time which changes how we view the world around us?

Do you still use your phone from 2012? Clearly there has been no progress made.

So what "science and medicine" happened in 2011 causing us to radically change our handbook?

I'm not a scientist so I can't speak to the specifics. I trust the scientific method and per reviewed journals from the scientific community more than random Reddit posts.

Ah yes, the appeal to authority. So you don't have any specifics? Doesn't really sound like science...

Do you really believe there are no authorities on topics? Who should I believe instead? You, who has done all of zero actual research on the subject?

It's called a logical fallacy - go read a book. I'm just the Devil's Advocate and you are terrible at crafting an argument.

Does it make you feel smart to rattle off questions at people rather than respond to their points?

The appeal to authority is not a logical fallacy. It can sometimes lead to a logical fallacy but it is not. Knowing when to trust an expert takes work, blindly dismissing everything doesn't. It's lazy. Sounds like it is you that needs critical thinking skills.

The appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. What is the biological basis for being trans? There is no gene or biological developmental moment that has been determined to flip the switch so to speak. Gender incongruence seems to be still very much a social/mental phenomena and not one stemming from a biological reality. Sexual dimorphism is pretty hard wired into our species and into mammals generally.

Can you point to any other analogues of trans like behavior in the animal kingdom that isn't due to things like environmental pollution or changing environmental conditions? No, because being trans relies on the existence of human social reality, and therefore, more and likely, has no biological basis. If it has no biological basis, then it is exclusively comes from the mind and the mental conception a person has of themselves. Right?

Science changes. Its in its nature to do so. Remember according to science the sun used to rotate around the earth

it's been reclassified as gender dysphoria.

Psychology is the least rigorous science. That's why dumb bio majors drop out and graduate with psych.

I will leave hermaphroditism out of this because that is not a choice and you can actually be born with both parts. This is rare and those people do deserve acceptance and leniency.

However, most are born with normal working parts ------so other crazy transgendered shit does NOT need to be accepted into society or plastered in the open media. Our innocent children get confused and want to take dangerous hormones or mutilate their privates. Who cares if it's a disease or not if your children start mutilating themselves because he/she can't decide what they identify with. This type of identity is not a choice for child.

If I wasn't a cheap bastard, this comment^ would be decorated in gold.

if your transgender identity causes you enough distress to pursue transgender surgery that easily meets the definition of gender dysphoria (a mental illness).

So who woud identify as transgender but not be diagnosed with gender dysphoria? Beats me.

btw -dodging the mental illness label so hard is rather shaming on your part about mental illness.

You're definitely being trolled here. Please stop feeding that hateful asshole.

People can have compassion for the mentally ill. Is that hate as well?

So addressing mental illness which is a serious concern in every other aspect of life is hate.... Wow. So how come my brothers diagnosis of bipolar isn't hate? Or my depression? See how that works??? It doesn't... Stop trying to manipulate emotions with words like hate and come back with better debate tactics.

I think learning the definition og a mental illness would clear up some of your misunderstanding. The link the the APA website I posted in this chain is really helpful in explaining the difference.

I suffer from bipolar disorder myself as well. I hope your brother stays strong.

After 5 years of watching him go from highs to lows as these "experts" you quote played guessing games (multiple suicide attempts) he is fine. Actually just graduated college very proud of him. Definitions change all the time bud. Other posters noted that it was considered a mental illness in the past then you went off on your millennial-esque rant about cell phones. Nice whataboutism. So what do you think the chances are that they changed it to save face? Im curious if thats something the psychiatric association could get sued for... Not respecting "feelings" on a sexual issue. Hmm. Then theres the whole new age bullshit belief of "nix masculinity" when they completely ignore the negatives of the sacred feminine and positives of the sacred masculine. Seems like you have have gotten lost on reddit. This is r/conspiracy dude. People base their opinions on a lot more than the mainstream view of an association started by nazis during mk ultra.

Believing people are insane is not the same as hating them. I personally believe that both transgenders and religious people are (in the clinical sense) insane: they show demonstrable psychoses because the things they believe are not compatible with the reality of how things actually are.

Transgenderism seems like a fairly harmless psychosis to me, but it is psychosis. I don't hate transgenders, or even have a problem with them, except that their issues keep getting shoved in my face, which is fucking annoying. My number one issue is that I don't want gender reassignment / hormone therapies to be covered under socialized medicine. If they want to get sex changes that's fine, just don't ask me to pay for it.

Transgenderism is not a fairly harmless psychosis as the mind virus is meant to affect our reproduction and social fabric.

Gender Bender is the new flat earth while "most" religions are about on the level of "Dark Matter". They can't really be proven nor disproven conclusively at least with publicly available informations.

Putting both complex into the same mental category doesn't do them justice, at all.

No, religion is way worse. Religion is responsible for hundreds of wars, pogroms, massacres, enslavements, crusades, and atrocities, and is primarily a means of social control used by the elite to herd the masses. Not only that, but the arbitrary beliefa espoused by religions are generally on a far grander and far more delusional scale than TG.

Transgenderism is mostly harmless. Religion is not, and imho should be treated as a serious mental disease with massive long term consequences.

Religion is also responsible for the building of civilisations and calming people's minds. This is no b&w issue.

No, it is not. Say instead that civilization managed to survive despite the numerous setbacks inflicted by various religions. And keeping people calm with lies is exactly the sort of tyrannical social control that is one of the strongest points against religion. Not to mention that if you need to rely on a psychosis to deal with life you have bigger problems than just religion.

Let's look at Islam for instance. Without its rigid rules some tribes from the desert could have never ever co-operated and built a large civilisation because their environment wouldn't have supported a mutual cooperation.

Our western civilisation is directly related to the catholic church and later protestant churches. Architecture, art and even science despite all the dogmatic nonsense was deeply influenced by the religious structure.

It's also common when any other network fails that's what people fall back to and re-organize.

Not everybody's ego is strong enough to deal with all the crisis in their life and even if they believe their ego is strong enough it doesn't mean they process it in a healthy manner.

Believing into some religion gives most people hope and solace to deal with difficult situations while still staying a productive member of society. I would call it a method of self suggestion than a psychosis.

There is a reason why ignorance is bliss and such people in general live happier lives. Knowing doesn't equal happiness. Obviously this is a problematic issue here in conspiracy where most hunt for the objective truth, myself included:-)

Personally I don't believe in such personal god/philosophy but I can't neglect that this helps a lot people. If you can't acknowledge that you seriously lack wisdom and life experience.

Well, we're going to have to disagree on this one I think.

What I think is problematic about trans-ideology is that trans-people demand that non-trans people accept trans- reality as the only acceptable version of reality.

There are plenty of neckbeard looking types who claim they are women on the inside and want the rest of the world to call and treat them as women, when they are obviously men. Your mental reality is not physical reality, and the onus is not on non-trans- people to recognize or support your conception of reality.

Trans- ideology is a lot like religion in that regard.

I know you'll call this hate speech, but how does it qualify as hate? If some 40 year old man starts claiming that they are a woman (or even a little girl) on the inside, I'm not going to call them she. I'm probably not going to call them by whatever feminine name they choose for themselves. Because, frankly, I don't have too.

Also, I support the concept of women only spaces (like domestic violence shelters), and trans-women are not women and should not be welcomed as such. Womanhood is first and foremost a biological reality. Trans-women will never have ovaries or uteruses, nor will they ever ovulate or menstruate or go through menopause. The bleeding caused by dilation is not menstruation, it is the opening of a surgical wound to keep it from closing up. It is not a process that is due to biological sex.

While gender may be a social construction in many ways, there is also that biological reality of sex, which is chromosomal and genetic, as well as developmentally determined. And as much as trans-women try and demand that the rest of the world accept them as women, it just isn't so, and never will be (at least in my lifetime).

Be who or whatever you think you are, I don't care. But you shouldn't expect the world to accept you for it or ever consider it normal. And you definitely shouldn't expect your chosen gender should give you any privileges or protections that people born with the sex basis of said gender receive. Not like women have that many privileges in this patriarchal society.

Like I said you are free to be who you think you are, and I'm free to disregard it however I choose, so long as I don't discriminate against on that basis. Having women only spaces that are trans exclusive is not discrimination in my book. And I think, eventually, the courts will agree with that assessment.

What I think is problematic about trans-ideology is that trans-people demand that non-trans people accept trans- reality as the only acceptable version of reality.

I think there are different layers of this and different problems associated. For example, demanding to be called "xe" or other manufactured pronouns is bad, because you're making a demand on another person when there's no reason that they could have known. However, on the flipside, if a person sees a trans woman who is clearly presenting as a woman and who clearly wants to be called "she", going out of your way to call her "he" instead is just being a hateful asshole. And by the same regard, if you're unsure of what a person might prefer, particularly with non-binary people, "they" has been used as a singular pronoun for literally hundreds of years.

The thing is if a person is named "John" at birth and later decides that they want to be called "Jack", a decent person actually calls them "Jack". An asshole would say "You were 'John' when you were born, and even though I know you don't like it, I'm going to go out of my way to constantly remind you of that."

You are mentally ill too then.

What you're forgetting is that a lot of people hate hearing opinions they don't agree with. So, even if you don't hate people, it's still hate speech.

No. You are wrong.

If you don't like my opinion, then don't hang out with me. It is as simple as that.

People need to stop being so sensitive and realize that not everyone agrees with them. Just because I have a different opinion, does not make it hate speech.

I hate the things you just said. Your speech is driving me to be hateful, so it's hate speech. Why are you spreading hate?

You need to grow up.

Did you miss the /s?

You just sound unstable to me.

Guess I should leave the /s tag in next time :(

I don't believe that. But that is inherently the logic behind most people who cry "hate speech" every time they're offended.

Well, can't win 'em all :)

LOL! Yes, that /s tag is important! :-)

But so tacky. I prefrely on the wit of my co-conspiritards to mentally add

I never thought of it as tacky. Just necessary (for people like me who are slow). :-)

More like /u/DonnaFail, amirite?

/s

How do you even parse that?

Cute. :-)

Do you need a safe space?

Clever girl.

hate? they said it's a mental illness not that they don't agree with it. it's you who is expressing hate by not agreeing with their opinions

I think you missed the /s

Is this topic brigaded or something? Saying someone is "mentally ill" due to things like how they wear their hair or what kind of clothing they wear is fucked up and definitely hateful. If being born with a penis and wanting to wear a dress means "mental illness", then that means that one can be declared crazy over their fucking fashion sense.

Mental illness is a medical diagnosis. Do you have any evidence to support your claim or is this just your "feelings"?

We know it's a mental illness. That's why insurance covers the surgery to "remedy" it. It's body dysmorphia.

I think you mean gender dysphoria, not body dysmorphia. They're different things. The American Psychological Association does not classify being transgender as a mental illness:

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Did you just say their feelings were irrelevant?

Good catch! I thought EVERYONE'S feelings were relevant. :-)

You... I like you.

The APA are just people too . their minds are no different then ours .

The people who develop these psyops, like the current transgender op, are surely part of APA which disqualifies anything they say about it in the first place.

No, they're just assuming that all trans people experience body dysmorphia. It's not uncommon for trans people to dislike their body and want to modify it. That's not the case for all trans people though.

If you do not experience dysphoria, what makes you trans? That is the one qualifying symptom. You don't get to decide you'd like some of those precious oppression points one day and transform into an attention-hungry fuckmook to talk over people who need medical intervention to be okay.

body dysmorphia is a type of dysphoria, like gender dysphoria. You're either ignoring the connection to mislead people or you actually don't know much about this subject afterall.

If you are transgender and want surgery or are otherwise distressed by your born gender you have a mental illness called gender dysphoria. That is not a moral judgment it is a fact.

Do you have something against people with gender dysphoria? Would you like them not to identify as transgender? Most do.

Your perspective is not inclusive of the average transgender experience, what is your agenda here?

That's why insurance covers the surgery to "remedy" it. It's body dysmorphia.

I'm on the trans spectrum and I do not experience that kind of body dysmorphia. I have no desire to modify my body artificially, whether by surgery or hormones. You're conflating sex with gender.

And the mental health background you've formed this understanding with is... What? Nothing, I'm assuming?

Well let's look at the facts.

The official reclassification as gender dysphoria in the DSM-5 may help resolve some of these issues, because the term gender dysphoria applies only to the discontent experienced by some persons resulting from gender identity issues.

The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."

According to the American Psychiatric Association, the critical element is not the gender nonconformity in itself, but it's manifestation in an individual's life.

Now what would be considered "significant distress"? Surely an increased in suicide rates would fit the bill.

Adults with GID are at increased risk for stress, isolation, anxiety, depression, poor self-esteem and suicide. Studies indicate that transgender people have an extremely high rate of suicide attempts; one study of 6,450 transgender people in the United States found 41% had attempted suicide, compared to a national average of 1.6%.

Are there any other common mental disorders associated with gender nonconformity?

Transgender people are also at heightened risk for certain mental disorders such as eating disorders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 99092}

So, by your own admission, not all transgender people are mentally ill? Just those who present with a state of significant distress, as outlined by the DSM, which is less than half of the population? If so, then that still refutes the person I was responding to saying that all trangenders are mentally ill. In which case, thanks for highlighting my point.

Half are mentally ill. Half just crave attention. That is all

And that's based on what? Last time you posted, you at least pretended to care about evidence, given the wikipedia sourcing.

(((They've))) been changing dictionaries and publishing bunk science to push their agenda for years now. Just use the wayback machine to look up the definition of shill from a year ago, and the one today, to name a recent example. No institution is safe, dude, especially something so prominent as the APA.

If there's no biological explanation then I think you are right.

ily

Anyone with children know fully well about this agenda and are terrified.

My 13 yr old neice just changed her name to Reggie and is now my nephew.

Neither of the parents were terrified. Reggie is sharp as a tack and hilarious. He just didn't want to be a girl.

Of course they are, they just can't say so.

This is why I'm honestly afraid to even have kids at this point.

You sound like you'd be a good, caring parent. You should definitely have several.

I should. Then we could research mental illnesses together.

People being transgender has no effect on your life whatsoever. There's no reason to give a shit if someone is transgender. You probably don't even k ow anyone who is.

Then don't give your kids drugs and drop then off at a transgender persons house a few times a week.

You may or may not have a valid point, but calling it the "trans agenda" is so phonetically similar to "transgender" that it may be mistaken for satire.

You're mostly right. I live in the SF Bay area and have known multiple trans and de-trans people. It's seen as a neat little diversity bonus here. Not universally, but I've seen the "positive" discrimination first-hand.

I can see your logic but I thing the thing is, trans people haven't felt like 'who they are' until they've become it.

If you had any idea how much shit trans people go through you would think people do it just to be cool.

Lmao I'm not getting surgery on my genitals just to fit in. Whoever goes through a transition has to really want it. It makes no sense to say they do it just to fit in because they don't even fit in, people hate them and their families disown them.

So which is wrong, their body or their mind?

Who fucking cares? Both their mind and body is their own. Not yours, not your neighbors', not the media's, and not the government's. Until or unless your rights have been violated, you have no right to demand changes to either and they should be free to do whatever they want. To say otherwise is to be opposed to liberty. How would you like it if someone came up to you and said "You can't wear that kind of clothing" and demanded that you were mentally ill?

Absolutely this. As long as my fellow countrymen are paying taxes and abiding our laws they should have every right to express themselves however it pleases them. They can pray to whoever they want, however they want and whenever they want. They can love whoever they want. They can dress however they want, they can dye thier hair or even cover it up if they want. Liberty and freedom should be our foundation, always and forever.

It's mental illness. Gender is genetic. If your perception of your gender doesnt align with the reality of your gender then that is psychosis. That said, I don't care so long as I don't have to pay for any gender surgery / therapies, that needs to be entirely the responsibility of the person who wants them.

Gender is not. Biological sex is genetic however.

Well, according the the trans movement anyways. But gender (male / female / other) is simply a matter of whether you have XX or XY chromosomes (and possibly a bunch of other combinations). It actually says almost exactly that in my bio textbook.

Sex is biological. Gender is social.

Not according to my university biology textbook.

Well according to Sapiens it is (as one example)

Biology doesn't particularly care about using the correct terms there I'd wager.

Sapiens?

I'm a hard science guy. Gender was used interchangeably with biological sense in the bio courses I took. I understand that it isn't used that way in say, social sciences, but social science as a field is mostly bullshit with no scientific rigor, imho.

The book.

As I said, it's because biology doesn't care about anything to do with social ideas. Care to give examples? Things like international relations is pretty damn rigourous but you can't really be scientific because people aren't in anyway predictable

Gender studies, for example, has little to do with gender, and everything to do with perception and politics. My wife had to take gender studies, and she was frustrated because there was nothing concrete, it was all opinion. I told her 'just figure out what the prof thinks and parrot that'. Sure enough, A marks.

Right. And that's one social science. What about anthropology? (Which is what sapiens is)

I've never taken anthro, so I can't really comment too much on the subject matter. I have met anthro majors, and I honestly thought they were kinda stupid (although with a hard math / engineering background I certainly tend to feel that way about a lot of the soft "sciences".

Read sapiens, It's very good.

Sounds like you're a snob who doesn't appreciate other academic studies. Opinions on history?

I absolutely appreciate other academic studies. Physics is the shit. Math is great. Bio is super interesting and way too complicated for me. Chemistry is not really my thing, but I can see why it would be fascination. Computer science is cool. Kinesiology is cool. The hard social sciences are fine (the ones that are actually sciences). The problem I have is with studies that are more about opinion and politics than about any actual science or learning.

History is a hobby of mine. Any particular culture or era?

Not everything is simple enough to be reduced into science. As I've said before people are far too unpredictable to be accurate about them

Well, that's simply untrue. The vast majority of people are almoat wntirwly predictable.

Yet time and time again people aren't. It's why economics can't predict everything, why countless armies have been defeated

Holy shit, a university textbook is wrong? But we never update those periodically based on new information because every single one of those books contains absolute, undisputed truths about the universe! /s

I haven't watched either.

And the point you are raising here?

What????? Understanding has changed?

Sex is biological, gender is social. Also I just looked up the clip. He says what I have said, biological sex is either or (besides tiny % of intersex), gender is social

But traditional roles can change. Women don't need to spend that long on the household chores with the rise of electrical washers, hoovers etc.

Society seems to have done well the last 100 years

Roles =/= gender though. A woman is still female if she's the bread winner of the home.

Without giving the extra effort and trying to redefine words to push an agenda.. we all know what rodental meant. Gender and sex have always meant the same thing until a victim class wanted to change it.

People are so goddamn absolute about things.

Are you saying there is ZERO correlative connection between sex and gender? Like, none? That's a really hard claim to defend. And if it's more than zero, then gender is likely, to some extent, biological.

YES THERE'S A SOCIAL/CULTURAL ELEMENT. Even a significant one. But that doesn't mean there is no biological component.

And no, this doesn't imply that people have to conform exactly to a predetermined set of behavioural stereotypes to be considered decent human beings.

I never said that. You are trying to strawman me.

Biological males tend to identify as men and vice versa.

The two terms are different though

What's the terminology when biologically you are homo-sapien, but identify as a canine? Or a snowmobile?

"Eating is a social construct; it doesn't have to be done just so".

Yeah lemme know how your pickle and devil's food cake stew turns out and the rest of us "sticks in the mud" will grill our steaks, scramble our eggs, and fry our french fries like the fuddy duddy "traditionalists" that we are. I mean the nerve of us, to imagine that all of human history might be smarter than our feelings.. Appalling, really, and I'm sorry that you had to be forced to be among such heathens.

I mean the nerve of us, to imagine that all of human history might be smarter than our feelings..

More like the feelings of a tiny insignificant mentally ill minority that is being pushed upon the majority.

To conquer a people you have to destroy their values, first stage was to destroy the strength of the traditional family unit and now they are going after the individuality and identity of your children.

Yup, completely agree.

Nice strawman.

And I don't care about feelings. The two words mean different things

Yeah bro my comment was sarcasm.

Tfw you literally can't tell because of the shit people say haha

I feel you, dude. The world's all kinds of divided; if you stick up for what's right, you tend to get ready for people to attack you, ironically. Oh well, stay strong!

Well, according the the trans movement anyways.

Also the mental health community.

Have you ever heard gender referred to as being a spectrum, or non-binary? This is literally true, at the biological level. There are genitals ranging from completely formed vaginas, to combinations (intersex), to completely formed penises. This happens in animals as well. Our anatomy and our sex hormone levels affect everything we do- how we feel about ourselves, who we're attracted to, everything.

So when parents and doctors deliver a baby and look at the genitals, they are sticking that kid in a certain box based on very limited information. "You have a penis, you must be a boy who likes trucks and the color blue!".

The "traditional" values in our society are really what damages kids. They promote bullying of boys who are sissies and girls who are butch. They advocate for division and willful ignorance. I'd be willing to bet that if our society was just kind to everybody and ignored gender roles, there would be many fewer people who felt the need to have gender re-assignment surgery or attempt suicide. So of course the friends of these people want to protect them from bullying and cruelty (assuming they're not bullies themselves), and that's where this movement comes from.

TL;DR What you're calling the trans agenda is just a reaction to a society that inserts itself into everyone's sex lives in hurtful ways. Just be nice to everyone, and don't worry about what gender they want to be.

Trans kids are bullied worse.

Because of sentiments like this:

We are supposed to accept people who are transgender because that is who they are. But at the same time they changed because they could not accept who they were!

Parents telling their kids that the binary gender roles are correct, causes kids to bully gender outliers. But the binary gender roles are not correct, because people have all different combinations of genitals and hormone levels. It's a spectrum.

they changed because they could not accept who they were!

They changed because society (including you) tells them that their assigned gender is real and important. They struggle inside with the knowledge that you're wrong, so they change. Then you post making the implication that they're hypocrites so you don't need to be kind to them:

We are supposed to accept people who are transgender

Transgender people will stop having an "agenda" as soon as society (you) stops seeing them as being different from anyone else. Stop having an opinion on them, and the problem disappears.

Liking those does not make him a girl, or mean he was born the wrong gender.

You're missing the point. Assigning certain traits to certain genders is what causes trans people distress in the first place. If you forgot what the words boy and girl meant, there would be no trans people trying to cut themselves up in order to fit into a different box. Stop making boxes for people.

High heels where first made for men.

That's reversed gender roles. I'm trying to help you imagine no gender roles. Just individuals, choosing for themselves what facets of life are best for them. Not society choosing a set of options that don't fit them (or any individual, really).

We forget how bathed all our interactions are in the concept of gender. We don't own our genders, we are owned by our genders (having specific pronouns, cultural traditions). There is no reason our language needs gendered pronouns at all. So why have we had them for so many years? We didn't vote on it, that's just how it's been done. And we all know, the real reason was because women were being traded as chattel slaves between fathers and husbands. For a long time. That's not a noble tradition to uphold.

You want a creepy/could be spun however you wanted it too be sub to check out? try the /sissyhypno sub. Then delve into forced feminization.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=forced+feminization&t=ffnt&ia=web

After pg came out I started wondering about abducted kids and them being forced into this lifestyle. I have been wanting to dig deeper. i can say i have watched a few on the videos last year, an can recall one of them having a swastika flashing throughout while repeating how great it is to suck dick. I do not remember the name of the specific video or I would link that too. There was another one I recall that flashed young girls (maybe 9-11yr old non nude) During a segment that talked about how great it was to be a woman. I want to do more research on this an the creators of the videos, but at the same time i do not wish that kind of stuff to be associated with my computer.

There is a nice adventure for you if interested.

I don't give a damn. If you want to buy into the cosmetics industries overpriced BS, be my guest. I know people with storm trooper armor [and the like] and people who live in Los Angeles with new F-250s that they will never haul things in. I know a Captain in the Army that got a medical profile as soon as he got orders to get to deployed to Iraq. You can dress in whatever costume make you happy; just don't expect me to give a fuck unless your hand is in my pocket.

They can do whatever they want, but just stop shoving it in my face. I don't give a shit if you are now Nadine and no longer Nathaniel. I don't care that you are now so unique, you have pronouns that unless I personally inquire what I may or may not refer to you as might send you into a shaking fit.

None of your bullshit antics are going to affect what I have for dinner or do this weekend. But you know why I don't bombard people with how much I love dnb or why you need to stop playing CoD and start playing Battlefield? Because no one gives a shit.

just stop shoving it in my face.

No one is shoving anything in your face by merely existing.

You must be new to the internet.

I understand that it's a blanket statement and one person doesn't represent all people.

Then why are you generalizing just as rudely as the idiots who might say, "IF YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH A TRANS PERSON YOU ARE A TRANSPHOBE"? When you paint trans people with a broad brush, you're just as bad as the caricature strawman you've built...

Look up the piece of Canadian legislation bill C-16. This agenda is being forced through law, I'd say its very much in your face.

Let someone do what they want and dont strip the rights they have regardless of their choice of sex.

With that being said I have a couple issues with trans theory.

1. What is transgenderism is it mental, psycological, physical, genetic? So far nobody knows, but the science that has been submitted has suggested falsly that humans arent biologically attached to their gender.

2. If transgenderism is a condition is the best treatment to get invasive surgery?

3. Pronouns. Forcing people to use obscure pronouns based on your perceived association is ridiculous. And the lengths some go to have unique pronouns is a little absurd.

What is transgenderism is it mental, psycological, physical, genetic?

It's a social issue. It causes psychological trauma in the individual through social pressure. If society weren't hateful toward people who express gender outside of the strictly defined binary, trans people wouldn't really have issues.

If transgenderism is a condition is the best treatment to get invasive surgery?

Not all trans people experience body dysmorphia, and surgery isn't even necessary for all trans people who do. The best treatment would be changing society to not be hateful toward people for no good reason, but body modification can have a positive effect for people who experience trauma over their body feeling "wrong".

Forcing people to use obscure pronouns based on your perceived association is ridiculous.

I agree with this. Gendered pronouns themselves are fucked and the solution to that problem isn't to add even more fucked gendered pronouns. How the fuck am I supposed to know what manufactured pronoun you want to be called? Singular "they" is a good counter to this, since we already have a gender neutral pronoun that's been in use for hundreds of years.

Black people are getting jobs! Gays can drive! Transexual's are allowed to exists? What is this world coming to? /s

With liberty, and justice for all!

Unless you wear your hair in a style that I disprove of due to what I think about your genitals. If you wear the wrong fashion, you're mentally ill, so no liberty for you!

This is why there's division in the world.

Allow this conversation; what could it hurt if your position is so solid?

Its the wag to bring in transhumanism and the chip under the radar also a biproduct of a dying planet/species.

Gender, race, and sexuality are all egoic illusions.

Humans be Humans yo.

Thall shalt not judge.

Yeah, because being born with XY chromosomes and resenting that society artifically says "you can't wear dresses" is the same thing as forcibly implanting chips in people.

What's the deal with the assholes in this topic? Y'all are anti-authoritarian until the authority says "PENIS MEANS NO LONG HAIR ALLOWED" and you bow to your masters. Gross.

People will beg for the chip.

No one cares who wears a dress or who fucks who. Are the living dying or the dying living? Why judge?

That being said and coming soon.

Human cloning.

Humans taking on AI interfaces, neural Lace, transhumanism.

Robots, cyborgs and clones finding their way into legal proceedings, co sumers, tax payers.

Can I man say he is a woman?

Can a 100% down to the molecule replicated clone say its a person?

So while people who scared of sex and boogiemen have all ran to the bathroom.

AI is coming and we are but a blink of an eye as a species.

Think big picture or don't, no one has any level of care for these pixela and your time ive wasted by typing this.

If you want to fight the ancient parasitic AI, work on being more aligned with integrity. Be impeccable with your words. Spreading fear and confusion helps this AI control us.

AI can be beaten by human joy and absurdity.

It's religulous.

If you're opposed to trans people being free to be who they want to be, then you're anti-liberty. Encouraging people to do as they please is not a bad thing, so long as them doing so does not hinder anyone else's human rights. And them being trans does nothing to you. Individual liberty is an agenda that we all should be in favor of. You shouldn't care if that person wants to wear a dress or if that person wants to cut their hair short. If someone has body dysmorphia, as some trans people do, they should be free to modify their body how they see fit. You don't go up to someone with a lot of ugly tatoos and say "you can't do that to your body", do you? No, because it's their body and they can do whatever they want to it.

What would you suggest be done when you see someone wearing a dress who you think shouldn't be allowed to wear a dress? Would you assault them? Imprison them? Kill them? What? And how would that level of force be appropriate in response to their fucking clothing they're wearing?

If you're opposed to trans people being free to be who they want to be, then you're anti-liberty.

What if one dude's liberty is hitting two people a day with a stick? Am I "anti-liberty" for taking his stick away?

What if the trans movement is a deliberate attempt to reduce the population of white people through engendered feelings of self-loathing combined with the bait of instant societal acceptance if you will just neuter yourself in one of their prescribed methods, whether interracial relationships, homosexuality, transsexuality, etc? Would I be "anti-liberty" for saying to people "you have been taken for a fool, and wronged, and I wish I had time to stop and feel for you, but I'm going after the men and women who did this to you, whether you thank me or hate me"?

I don't think so.

What if one dude's liberty is hitting two people a day with a stick?

You're equating a person's CHOICE OF FASHION with physical assault. What's your problem?

What's your problem?

I think really freely, I guess. I also don't believe things that I simply want to believe in, and that alone seems to alienate me, but the thinking freely thing, I would say that that's my problem. In this new age of thought police and ugly dysmorphia on every forum, it's a huge problem to say things like "well let's look at this biologically, from a long view". Sucks, man.

You're equating a person's CHOICE OF FASHION with physical assault. What's your problem?

Probably the same problem of someone claiming they're terrified and feel endangered by hearing a coworker state men and women are biologically different.

They have fear created by False Evidence Appearing Real. It makes them feel personally threatened. They tell you about their fears. Listen to them. This is the reason for their behavior.

I can't agree that letting people choose to be what feels right to them is equivalent to being pressured to neuter myself. Actually, as they get freedom to do what they want to do I feel more free to do what I like to do.

Transgendered people are mentally ill and it's utterly disgusting that the left openly celebrates and encourages their mental illness.

Exactly and how many of these came to the conclusion that they are another gender by their own natural uninfluenced cognition? How many came to this conclusion by being a victim of their culture, media, child abuse, etc?

I think people who oppose trans rights is a left-wing psyop to make right-wingers look bad. I am right-wing and trans, and my experiences with right-wingers are almost universally positive. But treacherous liberal human waste tries to discredit me by using xir pronouns, masturbating to Felix Argyle shotacon, and trying to put hormones in the water supply.

It's all a push to stop white people from breeding because Jews hate us. I don't know why, but or for certain that it's out of pure hatred, but that they are pushing for it, and that it comes from Jews, I'm pretty sure about.

I've always been confused by the label of transgender, is that a legal term for someone who changed genders? I get it, you felt you needed to be a girl instead of a boy, you got a surgery, now you're a girl. Are you not... Now a girl? Or is being a transgender what you were aiming to be.l? I agree on the no hate part, people's head work in different ways, I'm all for doing what makes you happy especially in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else. I just don't understand wanting to change genders and then not calling yourself that gender. Growing up I always thought transgender meant you still had both parts, like you were transitioning from one gender to another.

And I'm honestly asking someone to explain it to me.

I think transgender folk still have a certain pairing of chromosomes that dictate what kind of body they have. Cosmetic surgery is not genetic modification. But if trading your vagina and boobs for a set of dick and balls makes you happy... Idgaf. If you believe the medical complications are worth it, go for it. It's like getting a tattoo or piercing. I don't believe body modification shouldn't be a crime or anything, but I do believe there is a natural male/female gender dynamic, and a sort of natural order of things.

Anyway, in my own subjective opinion, I don't care what you want to be, but if you have a beard and are wearing a skirt, I'm still going to look at you funny.

You nailed op.

Until the 70's gender dysphoria was regarded (rightfully) as a mental disorder like psychosis, depression, etc..

How does it affect you personally in any way? There are so many more deadly important matters going on in the world but we're worried about a VERY TINY percentage of the worlds population who hold essentially no power in the upper echelon of society. Wanna cut your cock off? Cool. Doesn't bother me any.

The trans issue has the worst visibility and representation I've ever seen. This group is being infiltrated and steered to do what it's doing right now; distract and divide. There are plenty of "normal" trans people that are just trying to get by like everyone else.

I'm trans (FtM) and I despise the majority of my community, because I see it too. I see the types of people that everyone else assumes we all are, and I hate it. I'm lucky my transition hasn't left me looking like an awkward androgynous freak, but instead, a handsome young man who is never questioned because you can't tell. It's only when we see a human that is visibly different in some way that we begin to try and make them less of who they are.

I don't know why we do this (probably something about finding comfort in what's familiar), we are all guilty of it at some point.

I don't hate those that believe I'm mentally ill because I know they're intentionally uninformed, among other reasons I'm sure.

I always invite the publicly ignorant to ask me anything, though most never do. I'm a typically kind person, open to many ideas and discussions.

We all gotta do what we gotta do to find peace with ourselves in this shitty world.

They have a mental disorder. Changes to the DSM recently made doesn't change that. It's not normal. It doesn't make them bad people. But it is definitely not something to encourage as it has been in children in this last year. It's just child abuse to my eyes. I've had personal dealings with a few trans people in the past. Some acknowledged there mental disorder others did not. Some were completely normal minus the dresses, some were insane. My example; I will never forget the girl who went off on me for saying excuse me miss in a bar. Apparently this woman who was dressed like a girl going to a punk show in a short skirt and tiny blue top was supposedly a boy though still dressed like a girl and was into men. The "miss." set her and her friends off and I pretty much b-lined out of that situation before it got any weirder or messier. I had almost thought it was just a big joke at first but I could see the seriousness in there eyes. I still to this day can't believe how ridiculous the whole situation was. Honestly if he/she hadn't started going off on me I may have even bought her a drink. Guess I was saved on that one lol.

We are supposed to accept people who are transgender because that is who they are. But at the same time they changed because they could not accept who they were!

You make a good point. The huge influx of trans people started with the Millennial generation, a generation full of anxiety, depression, and a significant lack of confidence. They think if they change their outward appearance, they will change their feelings about life. This is not true, and more and more trans people are regretting their choice. <http://www.sexchangeregret.com>.

Changing one's outward appearance does not get rid of one's own demons.

So what "science and medicine" happened in 2011 causing us to radically change our handbook?

I haven't watched either.

And the point you are raising here?

But so tacky. I prefrely on the wit of my co-conspiritards to mentally add

it's been reclassified as gender dysphoria.

Roles =/= gender though. A woman is still female if she's the bread winner of the home.