Should r/conspiracy InstaBan any account that defends the Terrorist State of Israel? Debate and Discuss.

0  2017-09-01 by Jeffersonien

If not, why not? What value is there in defending criminals? Here are the best arguments I can come up with against this motion:

1) But free speech...
If you want have your ideas, have them, but this isn't a public square. It's a private web portal and as such you can't demand entry. None of us can. If you believe Israeli terrorism is a good thing - start a sub and have at it. But this one is supposed to be about exposing the truths that the Powers that shouldn't be are hiding from their societies. And this truth - that Israel is currently a criminal enterprise is pretty open and shut as far as the evidence is concerned.

2) it they're god's chosen people.

Again, believe what you want - but facts are facts. Their involvement in 9/11, their first strike policies toward their neighbors, their targeting and dehumanizing of Palestinian men women and children is documented fact. And from a religious perspective, look at the orthodox jews: god threw them out of Israel for demanding a king rather than having faith in gods word - they aren't allowed back to Israel until the messiah comes --- according to jews who actually live by what the Torah teaches.

So what say you? I struggle to find any benefit to this sub by allowing Israeli terrorist defenders a voice in a sub such as this.

44 comments

1  agent570358201 2017-09-01

Should people also be banned for defending the terrorist state of the USA? Who will be left?

1  Mecanatron 2017-09-01

All of us in Ireland.. and the Swiss.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

Who among us defends the criminal actions of the us gov????

And don't change the topic.
We can discuss that next.

1  jeffinRTP 2017-09-01

What's next,you propose an instant on anyone who is against trump? You sound exactly what a dictator would say.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

"Against" Trump?

I'm talking about those who DEFEND a terrorist state actively killing thousands..tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Trump?
Way to try to reinforce the right/left delusion.

Also, your "slippery slope" logical fallacy is not a strong argument.

Care to answer the motion and provide support for your opinion?

1  jeffinRTP 2017-09-01

If you are automatically in favor of banning someone for their beliefs is there anything I can say that would change your mind. You already decided.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

You can't take my very specific proposal distort it through generalization and then apply the slippery slope fallacy.

We're talking about banning israeli terrorists and their online shill mercenaries.

Hardly comparable to banning any legitimate user of the sub.

1  jeffinRTP 2017-09-01

You already have determined that anyone that disagrees with your view is a Israel terrorist and/or an online shill mercenary.

I hate to tell you this but it is exactly what a slippery slope is. Once this happens then people who believe that those against the kkk are liberal terrorist and their online shill terrorists.

Who gives you the right to determine who are a legitimate user of the sub.

1  internetperson104 2017-09-01

this.

1  jeffinRTP 2017-09-01

That.

1  ZiggyAdventures 2017-09-01

It's not a good idea because it sets a precedent and actions such as these could be used to indirectly target a group. For instance, Republicans have a much higher rate of Israel support. Banning for defending Israel would also indirectly ban a large number of Republican supporters. This isn't something we want to go down.

Source for Pro-Israel support based on political affiliation:

H.R.1697 - Israel Anti-Boycott Act Composed of 188 Republican and 66 Democrat house representatives.

S.720 - Israel Anti-Boycott Act Composed of 35 Republicans and only 14 Democrats

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

They're all bought and paid for. Research congresswoman Cynthia McKiney and how everyone is expected to cow tow to israel "or else".

They're scum and so are their paid off corrupt political supporters.

1  ZiggyAdventures 2017-09-01

But the support isn't equal, it's heavily Republicans. If you start banning pro-Israel support in this subreddit it will turn into a democratic platform. I'd rather keep it equal.

1  trumps_amygdala 2017-09-01

No.

I beleive just like Islam there is a portion who do not desire this. and as long as there is an islamic ethnic state with destroying israel as a part of it's main doctrine. I support an Israeli state.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

You DO know the "Islamic state" is a fabrication of Israel/uk/golf dictatorships.....AND ISRAEL.... Right?

You ARE aware that "Muslim terror" is a total fabrication right? That the Israelis perpetrated 9/11 with neocons and zionists to get our military into the Middle East???

How in the dark are you?

1  trumps_amygdala 2017-09-01

It's not a total fabrication.

They have set something in motion that they no longer have much control over.

My stance is that we should not send them aid, but if they are able to defend themselves, then the land is deserved.

1  hoeskioeh 2017-09-01

1) no discussion for me

1  UnverifiedAllegation 2017-09-01

yes instaban all enemies of the truth!

who could be against that?

the only caveat is I determine who are enemies of the truth

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

Enemies of truth? I'm talking about defenders of terrorism and invasion.

Who could be against that?

Do YOU want to defend israeli terrorism, invasion, occupation, and subversion ???????

1  UnverifiedAllegation 2017-09-01

You really don't see

1  Zyklon_B_Nap 2017-09-01

Yes! Absolutely!

1  dylansmrjones 2017-09-01

Pro-censorship POS.

1  MaximinusDrax 2017-09-01

Username checks out...

1  Zyklon_B_Nap 2017-09-01

Past comments check out:

Thanks for the link (for the record, I mostly loo...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/6wb4tx/what_do_you_all_think_about_the_protests_outside/dm6qccp

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1  MaximinusDrax 2017-09-01

A) Creepy

B) Check out as what, exactly?

Do you also want to link my arguments with Israeli right-wingers against our current policies in Gaza and the WB?

What you were linking to is a civilized debate between Israelis about our current political crises (yes, plural). Is this the kind of discussion you would wish to shut down in its entirety?

I'm sorry if I threatened your view that Israel is some kind of monolithic sinister entity. I certainly don't think that about wherever you're from...

1  GoToMySubreddit 2017-09-01

Banning people for speaking otherwise is dumb. I am pro-Israel and pro-Palestine. The whole point is to downvote what you think you should. Banning someone shows a weak argument and the subreddits that ban for dissenting views is dumb.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

So.... You want to defend the terrorist state of Israel and its murderous, deceitful, propagandizing, brain washing behavior?

You have a lot to answer for when you casually throw out: "I am pro-Israel."

AAAAND you're pro Palestine, huh? Another issue since one side is aggressively pursuing genocide and the other's existence is in jeopardy.

Wow.

1  GoToMySubreddit 2017-09-01

I am pro both. I am not pro their methods. I am not pro their attitudes. I want both to prosper.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

You're not pro Palestinian methods of throwing rocks at invaders? Should they lie down like dogs?

You want both to prosper? So one is wiping out the other - are you against that? Or are you pro that too?

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

So your argument is: it's weak and dumb.

Do you lock your doors at night? Why not allow anyone inside? To keep people you don't want in, OUT is weak and dumb.

That's your argument.

1  GoToMySubreddit 2017-09-01

Your logic is dumb. You lock your doors against robbers. If someone commenting on a conspiracy is as an equal threat as a robber, then maybe you should rethink the conspiracy. Words are very different than robbers.

1  AIsuicide 2017-09-01

Not a fan of how much influence Israel has regarding US government. My comment history proves this.

That being said...no. Absolutely not. Censorship is not the answer. It never was and never will be.

As many on here have and many will very shortly come on this post and state. This will only lead to more censorship. It will lead to more division..as people try to defend their beliefs by silencing the beliefs of others.

A user on here has already made the comment that points out this will lead to a dictatorship. They are right.

Are there concerted efforts by groups of people trying to push their agenda or trying to silence the expression of an individual users perceptions? Yes.

Have we figured out the best solution to deal with the issue? No.

Will we ever? Probably not.

What solution has come closest to achieving success regarding speech that is considered offensive by a majority?

Ignoring them.

I don't even have to list the prime example of this. Everyone already knows what I'm talking about.

There will always be groups of people opposed to a certain topic. Therefore, the only viable answer to the Israel topic is to use accurate information presented in a non-hateful way to simply point out the facts.

If the perceived idea that Israel wields too much influence on US government/policies..the facts supporting this argument will only increase.

If the perceived idea that there are groups of people coordinating attempts to stifle or suppress the presentation of the facts regarding Israel's influence are true...then the examples of such groups doing so will only increase.

It will inevitably reach a point where it becomes blatantly obvious.

Patience and fortitude coupled with an accurate presentation of the facts is the best strategy.

That is my opinion on the topic of Israel wielding too much influence in this country.

1  AIsuicide 2017-09-01

Edit: You've already downvoted my input..it doesn't appear that you were honest in saying you wanted a discussion OP.

1  Starlifter2 2017-09-01

I believe your premise is flawed.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

That's almost an argument. But not quite an answer to the proposition.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

I believe your argument is invisible.

1  AIsuicide 2017-09-01

It's called the 6th amendment. Under the confrontation clause.

If we cannot practice this rule in the realm of social media..I seriously doubt it will last very long as a standard practice of law in these unpredictable and Orwellianish times.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

So if everyone doesn't have freedom of movement in our own homes, then we risk losing the freedom of movement out in the open?

Interesting logic.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

Social media is not a public square. It is a private entity's domain. You don't have the same rights on someone else's property that you have in the public square.

How do you think these places of private property can put out signs that ban the second amendment from being practiced on their property?

Your argument is weak.
Which lends strength to mine.

1  BanMikePantsNow 2017-09-01

As much as I dislike the hasbara, I think that that is an extremely bad idea. Censorship in any form should be avoided, as it is too easily abused.

1  Jeffersonien 2017-09-01

So you're against all of the rules of this sub which are various forms of censorship, correct? Facebook links, memes, insults, pointing out issues with this sub etc.... All of THAT censorship should be allowed - but banning the defense of israeli terrorists is going too far with the censorship?

I sense wild hypocrisy.

1  BanMikePantsNow 2017-09-01

I sense wild hypocrisy.

That is because you created a strawman fallacy.

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1  MaximinusDrax 2017-09-01

A) Creepy

B) Check out as what, exactly?

Do you also want to link my arguments with Israeli right-wingers against our current policies in Gaza and the WB?

What you were linking to is a civilized debate between Israelis about our current political crises (yes, plural). Is this the kind of discussion you would wish to shut down in its entirety?

I'm sorry if I threatened your view that Israel is some kind of monolithic sinister entity. I certainly don't think that about wherever you're from...