I agree. That and shift away from petroleum as a source of energy could be some important changes

renewable energy is more than suffiecient at this point.

In which way are you referring to?

• Generation? What happens when the wind stops blow or it's night out?
• Storage? How do you store all of the electricity that is currently on the grid for times when generation goes out?
• Availability? What about areas that do not have a river to damn for hydro, sustainable winds for solar, or limited sun light (winter) for solar?
• Capacity? The US currently gets 10% of it's electricity from renewable, where would that other 90% come from?

I'm not advocating against renewables at all, but to say it is sufficient is misleading, we need to invest a lot more into its infrastructure before it is adequate

It's also still vastly more expensive per kwh. So I hope you're ok with tripling your utility bill.

no it isnt more expensive

Yes, it is. Much, much more expensive, because it doesn't run all the time, so you have to build a whole natural gas plant to back it up.

Imo just switch the subsidies give renewable what we give coal and petroleum and that price difference will flip flop really fast. I think this is an overly ignored part of this discussion.

Internationally so, if I might add. That's outside of the acceptable range of discussion/debate. You either believe global warming is real and going to kill us all, or it's a conspiracy concocted by the Chinese. Pick your side.

100%, but not really according to the mainstream media (which was essentially my point).

Maybe I should have added a /s ;)

Hey maybe we could move the insane subsidies to the actual places that deserve them

Like no one? Subsidizing "green" energy is just as bad.

i think like research and growth of human potential would be good places for it, but cementing stagnation is probably not the best use. not that i agree with taxes anyway but that would be something i might actually put my money into happily.

If the government wanted to invest in R&D, patent their inventions, and license the results back out to repay the tax payer, I don't think anyone would have a problem. It's curious how they never choose to do that and instead opt for "stimulus" for companies run by their political allies, isn't it?

4th generation nuclear is our best option. Cannot melt down, cheaper than fossil fuels, no carbon, 99% reduction in nuclear waste, none of the intermittency problems of solar and wind.

yes liquid salt reactors ftw and thorium is found on many moons fyi

Oh yea! The fact that it can't melt down should be the #1 factor. It will literally plug up its own leaks.

I'm thinking more like alcohol or electric. The first cars designed back in the late 19th century were running on engines that used alcohol and the fastest car Henry Ford built at that time was electric, but eventually Rockefeller monopolized oil and but restrictions on people using alcohol as fuel and it eventually fizzled out. There are many different things cars could run on

update it in a way that makes sense for modern times

You are essentially caling for a massive economic boom made possible by major infrastructure projects generating new wealth, making the world a better place, right?

I can understand your anger but why do you think crypto is a solution, per se? What matters is how you invest your money so that it can generate more capital (and more wealth), not how it is called.

If we created a system that was backed by something other than debt

You are on the right track here. What should that something be, in your opinion?

worked man hours, gold and silver,

No. Has this ever worked?

im not an economist and am just now learning the truth about money and how it works but brainstorming is a good thing. im sure there are other groups and organizations out there that we need to join and help

Have you read High Level Insider's threads? He is talking about comprehensive solutions how to get out from this mess. See here if interested.

do better

Sure thing. This is the most important thing you said.

Read it even though it seems like a lot to digest (2000+ comments, and some additional material) but absolutely worth the time.

That's actually a horrible idea.

I was thinking of making a post like this just now but glad you made it first. I'm so enraged after reading a bunch of anti-banker quotes.

First thing first. Fuck taxes. We should not pay a dime to this filthy country that allowed the Federal Reserve to ruin our economy.

2nd. We need to all stop donating to everything from the Catholic Church to the Red Cross. If we want to donate, just donate to a homeless guy. Its more likely to actually go to someone who needs it.

This is pitiful. Fuck all these elite bastards.

The simplest way I found to defeat the bankers is to not use money at all. They control the flow of money so they can easily cause a drought leaving us with very little. Printing our own money is no easy task either without the resources that they control.

The solution. Everyone has to work a minimum of 25 hours a week at any job that is registered with a central, transparent database so that all people can see that all people are working. We not only work for free, but we consume for free. Basically, as long as one person works, they are allowed to consume. If they don't work, they don't consume. Work can be extended to raising children or taking care of old, sick folks as well.

See the whole plan here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/New_American_System/comments/6ne42s/new_government_and_economic_model_layout_model/

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I just read that 45% of all work related activities can be replaced by robots as we speak. All we need to do is use robots to do most of the work. I am also considering all the hidden technology they are holding from us which can replace most all jobs.

I like to think of it like a family. A family doesn't count every penny and every little bit of activity they perform. They perform out of love for the good of the household. We need to do that across America where we work so that others can eat, drink, and be merry. If we all take care of each other, what's the point of money?

Money is too easily manipulated by the elite as they are doing now. Ok, so let's assume we stop all the corruption tomorrow. The elite will just find another way to re-accumilate all of our wealth like they always have throughout history. When Alexander the Great took over the world, he tapped hoarded wealth and gave it to the world. The entire world economy blew up for 50 years but then the elite, after Alexanders death, began hoarding it back in again and the world fell back into a prison planet. Money is the root of all evil. It is causes WAY more problems than it solves.

Lightbringerflex for community organizer 2018

Call your congressman to tell them to phase out their federal reserve notes in favor of us treasury notes.

And we do that by issuing currency from we the people. You can't just strip away the older generations way of life. I mean you can. But it's much more difficult. It's a lot easier for right now for American elites to Dick us rather than the European elites.

Because it's hard to convince people to do that. You're not wrong. Just young and don't quite realize how stubborn/stupid older people really are. Younger get how simple it is. Old people forgot how simple it really is.

Yes but they hold power and aren't going anywhere fast. So prepare yourself.

You are kidding right? You think an overthrow of the system is easy or possible? Getting people to side with you when they might starve, get locked up, or killed? Getting businesses to side with you when it will destroy their profit margins?

You can't even get more than 40% of the country to vote on a presidential election. About 10% on the local level

People don't know their history, xx they don't even know what is in the Constitution. Most people can't name more than 3 of the amendments in the bill of Rights.

As long as people have air conditioning, fast food, and t.v., and facebook they are happy.

It needs to be done, desperately. But they literally own the politicians who would do it. And if we try to get new politicians, the fed, and the banking mafias who back it, will shoo in their own politicians again. If you're gonna tear it down, it all has to go, at once.

But even if that happened, we'd have to be prepared for widespread famine and war. If you think that the economic powerhouses would just roll over and die without a fight, you'd be mistaken. A proper, comprehensive, and fully independent agriculture industry would have to be in place, with reserves to handle the lean year or two. Utilities, and alternatives for power, need to be locally self sufficient, without imports. As long as we keep going to walmort and the centralized corporations for our food and utilities, a true revolution will be... self destructive.

It's quite a mess we have...

I'm not talking about "legal". If you go after your "rulers", they will starve us, murder us, try to fence us in, on and on. Look up the Holodomor, if you think they wouldn't. Look at the situation in Venezuela. I'm pointing out the need to be prepared for that.

Local companies, with local products, sure. But how are you gonna get a walmort to import tons of food and goods against their will, and not for money? It just won't happen.

It's gotta be done locally, starting from a personal level, to neighborhoods, to cities, then counties. The more dependent we are on imports, federal funding, or the financial system, the more control they have over us. If a city (or family) can't sustain itself for a year or two, it doesn't stand a chance.

And even then, once you've dealt with all of these contingencies, and prepared for hard times, now you have to fight off their missiles...

Like I said, it's quite a mess...

Civil war at this point is the only way it will happen. To be clear, this civil war would be nothing like Civil War I. We would essentially be fighting troops from all over the world on our soil as the global elitists are not going to lose their Sparta (natural resource rich military state). If we were to win this "Civil War II"once our government and money supply was created and managed for the benefit of the people (assuming we are not fooled again by some agent of the oligarch), we would then have to fight World War III. The global elites are not going to allow a country as wealthy as ours to leave the fold. If you were living in Europe/Asia/etc, prior to the attack on the US 2.0, you would be inundated with propaganda about how we are evil and vile. The UN needs to control our WMD, the UN needs to liberate the Christians/Muslim/Jews/Native Americans/Blacks/Whites/Hispanics/insert any other potential peoples here. We would be attacked as we have done to countless countries under the guise of liberation, democracy, freedom, or to protect the world from terrorism. Terrorists is what we would have become. Terrorists is what we would be to the oligarch, and therefore the rest of the world. After we are defeated, a new friendly administration would be supplanted to ensure all is right with the world. So, that's how I see it beginning and ending. Not being defeatist, just realistic.

Can't recall at the moment but their was a movement of sorts that was called the Tech Party I believe. Essentially created an app with every bill up for vote that allowed your average joe to get all the details of said bill and weigh in on the pros and cons of each. Then they were able place their vote. Of course they were laughed out of the office of every congressman they spoke with. I completely agree that complacency is the biggest issue that will need to be overcome. The question is how. And what the older generations will need is a why. Why should I exert that much energy and risk all that I've spent my life building. I would love nothing more than to be able to tear it all down and start over. But their needs to be a plan. Passion without plan is a recipe for disaster.

The federal reserve gets a lot of flack for what is a simpler problem: fractional reserve banking.

Did I say simple? That's probably not even accurate. Fractional reserve banking has at least somewhat noble roots. It allows people to own property and expensive assets who otherwise would have no chance. Do you think anyone would lend you $300,000 with the promise to pay it back in 30 years using your $50,000 wage slave job if they actually had to lend you money that exists?

So we have the benefit of cheap credit, and a really really bad design for it. Private banks control over 90% of the money supply and hold the entire economy in the palm of their hand. This is the essence of "too big to fail".

Ironically, the solution is probably to keep the federal reserve, but transfer ownership to the public domain. Fed profits should add to the federal treasury. This is what Canada does. But more needs to be done than this. Banks should only be able to lend money they have, or act as a broker for "new money" loans directly from the government, who should have the sole power to approve and issue them.

There's even more benefit to this system too. It gives the government the long desired fine-tuning control over the economy that they need. There's a housing bubble but small business is suffering? Currently their only tool is to manipulate prime rates, but if they controlled all new money loans they could slow down the housing bubble and stimulate with business loans at the same time.

Well I would caution against advocating that any intelligence re-design "the system". If what you're talking about is viable and possible, it will happen on it's own.

The reality is, it probably isn't, at least not with current technology. Scarcity is still a problem, and even imagining some futuristic society where replicators can produce everything we need, like Star Trek, has it's own unique challenges.

Because who's going to "redesign" society? You? What if I don't play along? Do I have to work in your gulag?

I've read a history book before. I know that well meaning people all throughout history have offered to "redesign" things and it's never been good for anyone in the end.

My outlook on life is that you can't affect change for anyone. The proverbial you. Once again, because I know my history.

My outlook is that free people will choose their own destiny, this I support freedom. If you find that depressing, then I feel sorry for you.

I like the way you think but I think moderately left libertarian center left democratic socialism and/or social democracy and centrism would be a faster and easier solution to the deliberately rigged economic system compared to more left anarchistic type of economics. If in a few hundred years, elites and sociopaths have left the gene pool (perhaps due to things like improvements in research/medicine/psychology/genetics) then so be it, we can implement that type of completely different system at that point when we're all less ignorant and psychotic lol.

Right now, we just have to get money out of politics, protect the people from psycho corporations, restrain/regulate the corps and banks, and use social programs to benefit the population and economy (withOUT corporate interference).

When there's enough opportunities available, there will be far more advancements in science, tech, medicine, psychology, etc. Real progress. I think forcing it could be a misstep and too premature. But I prefer your type of thinking than that of the propaganda some people unknowningly push like "get a job you loser". Working HARD is overrated, there needs to be a balance. You need to enjoy what you're doing OR get compensated enough for doing a job you'd rather not do.

I think without a little authoritarianism, the elites could infiltrate things (maybe why dictator socialist countries are forced to be this careful against CIA spies and rebels and such which could take over the country and corrupt it).

We should start with a balanced approach and AWAY from NEOliberal far right economics, towards centrism and see how the economy improves, mental health, intelligence, physical health, happiness, etc. Then eventually center left (left of Bernie) would be optimum for a long time.

At some point we could implement universal basic income but it would have to be done by benevolant people, because if the elites do it, they're going to give it with one hand, and take away social programs with the other (using UBI as an excuse "you don't need free shit now you peasants" when it's really the elites who leech from US and the fruits of our labor.)

I think moving to a more moderate socialism-capitalism ratio (center left democratic socialism to centrism, instead of far right NEOliberalism) would actually reduce suffering much more quickly if we can get money out of politics. But your idea is interesting.

A lot easier said than done dude.

I know, but getting money out of politics is still easier than trying to completely change the system....but I'm open to other alternative ideas.

Quite right. The problem isn't with the tool but rather who's in charge of it. A method of controlling the money supply is probably necessary, full stop. What isn't necessary is having that tool be appropriated by private interests.

OP, if you wanted a real answer to your questions, this is it. Because this sub is full of socialists obsessed with seizing the printing presses and turning the US into Zimbabwe.

We can create credit without allowing elite bankers to reap the benefits of collecting interest on money they lent that they didn't even have (Jesus whipped these types).

Great point, I'm glad you brought up the point of interest being against Christian beliefs.

This is an excellent text book, even college level text book response, and it is completely full of false narratives. I will concede the benefit of fractional reserve banking to the economy at large, and especially those at the helm. However, a federal reserve bank does not need to exist at all. Necessary expansion and contractions of money supply can easily be done by the governments treasury through long forgotten treasury tools, reserve requirements, overnight repo rates, and other short term and long term credit facilities. The initial pitch for the Fed was to help stem the voraciousness of boom and bust periods. Arguably these boom and bust periods, or times of creative destruction are a vital part to any healthy economy. Incidentally the worst economic depression our country has ever seen began just 16 or so odd years after the Fed was created. This resulted in the elimination of many small financial institutions and fewer larger financial institutions...as did the 2008 crisis. Currently these periods of expansion and contraction are manipulated globally by institutions that have no skin in the game and prosper in either scenario. The only thing any g-20 treasury does at this point in time, in relation to money supply, is issue debt. The US government can't even print its own dollar bills for fucks sake. To paraphrase a quote from one of the Rothschilds, 'allow me to control a country's money and I care not who writes the laws'.

Currently our Federal Reserve transfers all gains to the US Treasury, the same as Canada and every other central bank on the planet that I'm aware of, less "administrative expenses". Coincidentally, none of these reserve banks has ever been truly audited.

If you desire an education on the federal reserve system free of the official narrative I encourage you to read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

I cant link the video right now, but there is an arguement out there that if the US Dept of Treasury started a new currency by which taxes could be paid, new currency implementation could occur over a presidency. Not that whoever would make it terribly long as President... see Abe Lincoln after/ during the Civil War

I completely agree, the idea that a few uber powerful bankers have almost complete autonomy to print money and hand it straight over to the banks is absolutely ludicrous. I truly believe in cryptocurrency, I think a decentralized currency is the only way forward. I'm not saying that bitcoin is the answer, I just trust that blockchain technology and the premise of ICO's could help fix the ridiculous economy manufactured by the Fed.

Despite bitcoin (and most cryptocurrencies being open source) we still don't know the identity of who created btc. Chances are you're right that it was the CIA, but it could have also been someone who was afraid of facing those who control the central banks.

IMPOSSIBLE

It's a good idea by itself. But the elites won't allow it to happen because their entire dark occultist network completely breaks if they lose the central bank control. I think we have to wait for the right moment.

Well you already have Russia, Iran and Syria fighting back. I think the coming war with the US and Israel will be very important for the future...

Are you guys just not interest

Because people want "breaking news!" "it's happening!" and politics, instead of sitting down and reading monetary policy and history so they can accurately understand the world.

Burn all the money... that's as far as my plan goes. Not an answer to our problems unfortunately. I wish I had one.

It should be required reading in high school IMO, but all of you should read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. Details the creation of the federal reserve system, fractional banking, eliminating the gold standard, and the why it exists. Excellent book.

Definitely pick it up, amazing book

We prefer to work problems small to big.... then quickly forget the big.

As soon as the American people understand that their Treasury Dept doesn't administer monetsry policy, and that a FOREIGN entity does maybe there will be outcry. Problem is, they indoctrinate this system in high schools as 'normal' and dont teach about the economic prosperity the country had when we weren't on a debt-based/ central banking system. Not that that time was terribly long, but the financiers were on the outside, jelly as fuck, looking in. We need another Andrew Jackson

Going after money changers is verboten. Digital numbers created at will and in unlimited quantities for years of physical labor. Resolution soon.

I think it's more of a matter of what can we do? As long as the Federal Reserve is privately run, the system will always be unfair. Those on top are not likely to be willing to relinquish their power.

Let's not rape each other when we get sent to jail. 👍

Oh, I was expecting when you said print money that you were talking about dollar bills lol. But cryptocurrency? Hell yea

Money is whatever the populace decides it is. Stop using their paper.

It is flat out a terrible idea. The federal reserve is one of the best institutions in America: nonpartisan, ran by some of the best economists in US, very successful in keeping prices stable, completely transparent, and saves the government a lot of money. What do you propose what we replace it with?

The federal reserve is one of the best institutions in America

this kid just said this

Brazil is fucking energy INDEPENDENT guys. If they can do it then there is no way America couldn't if they tried. It is the people at the top of the pyramid preventing this from happening. I pray for the kingdom to come Christ.

The first matter of business would be to get some power by ending legal bribery. As long as its this corrupt, nothing will happen.

I mean, hit me with some evidence the federal reserve is bad. Like a list of links please.

I ran across a thought exercise towards that (r/collapse, I think) – or even something executable if everything went to shit but we still had enough electricity to turn on a printer or email a pdf of it.

It makes you realize how contrived the monetary system is and that in the context of humanity and the globe, having a few central families and central banks issue currency to everyone else is completely insane. If they can do it, so could anyone & everyone.

If everyone did it, currency would become moot after a while.

Amen brother! End the fucking fed

According to my economics class, the federal reserve has a significant role in some vital economic functions and stabilizers, was my economics class BS, should we replace the federal reserve with a new central banking system ?

US is at war with russia and china (economic informational war), there is no time to reform US and make itself better, when the very power of US is at stake. US dollar as reserve currency is probably going to fall soon(like within our lifetime for sure). Infrastructure, social problems, etc. political bullshit and propaganda. There is no time to discuss the obvious issues that the biggest theft in american history that took place long ago (the fed reserve), when real issues of very power of US is at stake. (which makes sense).

But on the topic at hand: Fed Reserve is established and has deep strong roots in the whole of US, you cant just change that.

Honestly I have been thinking about this.

The wars always carry a big bonus to the countries. Population control, a good big war always cuts the numbers by the millions. Economy gets a refresh with fewer competition small businesses can rise up. Redevelopment of europe was a big factor post ww2.

Maybe you are partly right, maybe you are fully right. But the effect of rich fighting the rich and carving up the earth was a factor in ww2, and it is continuing today.

It will never happen unfortunately.

Lol

he's right. never downplay, never poo poo, never be negative.

I know. My bad.

this is the topic that gets shilled the hardest here and bots downvote any thread on it. I bet this thread is off front page of this sub soon

Dismantling the Fed wouldn't be sufficient if central planners retain their monopolistic control of money (e.g. via legal tender laws). It will be incumbent upon our generation to achieve outright separation of money and State. When we do it will mean an end to famine, tyranny and war.

Like no one? Subsidizing "green" energy is just as bad.

Yes but they hold power and aren't going anywhere fast. So prepare yourself.

I know, but getting money out of politics is still easier than trying to completely change the system....but I'm open to other alternative ideas.