3 observations of the LV massacre
19 2017-10-04 by prometheus1351
I noticed a few things and they were briefly touched on in comments but never really addressed. I'm wondering what your guys' take is on these three things:
The shooting lasted for 9 - 11 minutes according to the police briefing and then 72 minutes later the door was breached by SWAT team. I haven't heard a timeline of when the security guard made it to the door and was shot at. There's already a post asking why the guy would have checked out early but what about there being another shooter(s) in the room? Knowing it would take a good amount of time to locate the source of the shooting someone could have easily left the room after the initial 9 minute attack under the guise of a horrified visitor staying in one of the rooms on the 32nd floor. The cameras could have been set up to ensure no one was in the hallway when exiting the room. Now, there was supposedly a security guard that came to the door at some point and was shot at through the door. The picture of the breached door shows bullet holes in it - so that seems to line up but there's still a chance that someone shot through the door, scared security guard away/sent him away for medical attention, and then the additional person(s) existed the room. My theory isn't so much that there were two shooters as it is that Paddock could have been a patsy.
There have been leaked photos from inside the room that show Paddock's body laying on the floor with his hands by his side. There is another photo standing above his body looking down at his head with the revolver well above his head. How is it possible for someone to shoot themselves in what appears to be the mouth, have both arms end up by your side, and then gun end up above your head? Does anyone else find that strange? I read someone suggested that police kick away firearms until confirmed dead but still seems strange.
Finally, my number 3 - which is actually what I'm most interested in getting everyone's take on:
- First of all, the police provided audio of the breach to the media really really quickly - that seemed strange to me from the beginning. The audio says "breach breach breach" and then you hear an explosion. Now fast forward, the picture of the doorway has surfaced and there doesn't appear to be any damage to the door, door jamb (aside from bullet holes), adjacent door latch, or anything else. I thought maybe they blew the hinges, but the hinges are internal in the door frame. What's everyone's take on this? Does the sound of the breach and the resulting picture of the door add up?
tl;dr - see item 3... it's the only thing that I haven't really seen addressed yet.
By the way, I'm fairly new to reddit and mostly browse and rarely post - I'm definitely enjoying this community!
Edit: Links to some of the stuff referenced:
Breaching Audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EyoKuaJ10Q
Picture of room/door https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/amp/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html
33 comments
1 PotatoheadNL 2017-10-04
The question i want answered is; - if there is someone shooting a automatic riffle in a hotel room, why the hell would a simple security guy go knocking on the door?!
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
They say he had cameras set up looking down the hallway - I could picture him cautiously making his way down the hallway to get a better idea of which room the shots were coming from and then shots come through the door. Then again, now that I think about it, this likely occurred well after the 9-11 minutes of shooting...
1 allkindsofnewyou 2017-10-04
I thought the same thing. I mean, a casino security guard is definitely above a rent a cop and is responsible for making sure money that wasn't legitimately won isn't walking out of the door. I would think though that they wouldn't be expected to put themselves in the line of fire.
1 Scottvdken 2017-10-04
I don't believe this was provided by the police. My understanding is that this was all done over channels, so anyone with a police scanner (most reporters use them) could have heard and recorded it.
Do you have a link to the picture of the door? The only door I've seen is to what looks like his bathroom.
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
That's a good point although I think I recall watching CNN and hearing specifically that the police provided the audio which is why I remember thinking it was so strange. I don't know how to verify that though and it was really early morning that I was watching everything happen so I could be not be remembering things quite right. DukeTheMook posted a link to a news story with the pictures below - here's the link: https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/amp/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html
1 remyseven 2017-10-04
Audio was probably edited and pared down so they could squeeze into their segment.
1 tickledtoucan 2017-10-04
Also in this article I noticed that there is picture shown a little more than halfway down captioned "He lived at the $400,000 property (pictured with crumpled garage door after police raid) with Danley. The home is in a quiet retirement community in which residents must be over 55. Cops found 19 guns there, plus explosives." Then about 6 images down, there is a video labeled "Outside the home of Stephen Paddock". They are two totally different houses. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme I suppose, but just a little detail I picked up.
1 rippednbuff 2017-10-04
Can you link these pictures please
1 DukeTheMook 2017-10-04
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/amp/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html
1 Scottvdken 2017-10-04
Ok..... so this clearly shows one side of the door completely blown off. Where do you get "doesn't appear to be any damage" from?
1 DukeTheMook 2017-10-04
I'm not the one who said there was no damage, I just saw your reply and posted the pics.
1 Scottvdken 2017-10-04
yup, just realized that. My bad dude
1 OhDeerLordMan 2017-10-04
The gun is away from him most likely because the first cop to see it would kick it away whether the guy appears dead or not. It's threat elimination 101. As for the breach leaving the door intact I'll have to see a pic. SWAT would likely use a shaped charge or battering ram to the door jamb and throw some bangers in. A charge is going to destroy the door, and depending on the type of door the ram would also to a lesser degree.
1 Absolutely-Not-CIA 2017-10-04
This would be my likely explanation.
Hands down by his side because of the fencer positon people go into with sever brain trauma, eventually resting down by his sides.
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
Here's a link to the audio for the breach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EyoKuaJ10Q
The dispatcher say's they have an explosive breach and everyone needs to get back. I thought maybe the explosion was from a flash bang but then there's no audio of any kind of door breaching by some kind of ram. If the answer to that is that the radio needs to be triggered to convey audio then why would there be an open mic for the explosion?
1 Bmorehon 2017-10-04
Why are they talking about teams going to the Tropicana tho?
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-04
Where is the burn marks?
1 OhDeerLordMan 2017-10-04
I assume you meant where ARE the burn marks, and still not sure what the question pertains to.
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
I think he's referring to burn marks on the door from the explosive breach. Personally not knowing anything about "explosive breaching technology", I'm asking a similar question. There doesn't appear to be any damage done to the door by explosive or even mechanical breaching.
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-04
The sheriff said explosive breach. The shots stopped at 10 minutes so for 60 minutes he was dead? Also, where is the blood and body of the guard killed through the door?
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
In one of the press conferences they said the guard was only shot in the leg. If I were to guess, the person inside saw the approaching guard on the camera and fired through the door - the guard didn't have to be right at the door to get hit so maybe blood further down the hallway out of sight of the picture.
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-04
I really really hope we get all the footage...
1 OhDeerLordMan 2017-10-04
In the rangers we used a hanger charge for the door knob or a shaped charge with adhesive. There wouldn't be any burns as explosives dont make flames like people see in movies, but ours always sent wooden doors into 1000 pieces and would warp steel doors. I imagine we used more powerful and possibly less sophisticated charges comparatively since we rarely worried for the guy on the other side like cops have to, but still you are correct the damage is minimal. I would say they possibly used a breaching shotgun on the left side hinged area into the wall, but the police specifically stated explosive. I'd have to see more to really tell you, but in conclusion it just doesn't add up.
1 CalmButAntsy 2017-10-04
Well for one he had a camera watching the hallway that was hidden on a room service cart. So my guess is thats how the security got shot?
My understanding is began shooting in the right side which would be the adjacent room not the suite they found him in, shot the guard, moved left into the suite where he was later found.
Him running back and forth between windows doesnt make sense to me. From the videos ive seen its like he reloads very quickly in the begining but gets slower and the shots seem to be spread out towards the end.
And him having multiple of the same guns, probably just saved time reloading by grabing a fresh gun.
Interview of the brother says the gf and him were not together but that he cared for her. He was gambling with her casino player card up until the crime was committed. He sent money to the homeland.
Wouldnt be surprised he lost his money, lost mary lou, and had some shit from his dad being crazy and all. And went fucking crazy in the city he loved the most.
1 jaydwalk 2017-10-04
Look at the stack of magazines! He could have gone on way longer than 9-12 minutes. Why stop and wait 72 minutes for them to come get you. It seems what could be possible that someone shot the security guard so they could leave the room and have Paddock be the fall guy...
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
That's basically the theory I'm subscribed to. Now throw in the news that a room service receipt has surfaced with an indication of 2 guests in the room? Also, why would you have 3 cameras set up? I think i read there was one down the peep hole of the room door, one pointed towards the elevator and a third inside (which is pretty strange). If I were person 2 in the room looking to escape I'd want to be damn sure I knew someone wasn't there watching the door when I walked out before assuming my "scared guest from another room on the 32 floor" facade.
1 -lighght- 2017-10-04
Do you have a link to the room service receipt? Do you mean the hotel restaurant receipt from that guys uncle?
1 prometheus1351 2017-10-04
This is what I was referring to: https://www.infowars.com/receipt-shows-paddock-had-another-guest-in-his-room-before-shooting/
There's also another thread on this sub discussing/questioning the validity of the portion of the receipt where it states the number of guests served being 2 so it could be a stretch.
People have also pointed out that the table is 32135 indicating his room and the IRD_MD on the receipt indicates In-Room-Dining at Mandalay Bay. Do you know of another receipt for the hotel restaurant or are we talking about the same thing?
1 -lighght- 2017-10-04
After looking for the post, and not being able to find it, I googled the title by memory and it looks like it was taken down. Imgur link is dead.
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-04
His hands are wrapped in a jacket.
1 lR3ptarr 2017-10-04
Gloves and gun I believe
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1 lllAMGlll 2017-10-04
So where is this security guard? Surely he has a story to tell...?
1 HangryBuffaloBill 2017-10-04
ok so when listening to the audio the Team Leader says he needs dispatch to tell every one in the hall to be awar of the breach and to get back. my question is, wouldnt the swat team literally pass anyone in that hall? this room was the end room on the building and all the halls lead back to the center where the elevators are. so if swat came off the elevator and came to his door would they not see the police and security there?
also something i noticed is what the Team Leader says before the breach: " We need to pop this and see if we can get any type of response from this guy. See if he is in here or moved somewhere else."
seems like they want to convey specific messages to anyone listening.
the first sentence indicates they are unsure if he is alive.(in reality they know he is dead)
seems like they are unsure of his whereabouts but really they knew he was dead.
this also tells us they were expecting just the one person. how do they know there was just one shooter in the room?
after they breach and you hear the explosion, immediately he comes back on to say they are clearing the room and they have one suspect down.
He came back over the mic so quickly i dont think they got two steps in. i realize swat moves fast but it doesnt seem feasible that this guy was at the door charging in with a gun in his hand and speaks to dispatch about seeing the suspect down so damn quickly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7EyoKuaJ10Q