What if Jesus Christ is Lucifer?

0  2018-02-04 by Theorist_Infinite

Questions..

74 comments

What if Jesus Christ is Lucifer?

Your question presupposes that "Jesus Christ" actually was a real person - despite no recorded evidence (The Bible is not evidence). It also presupposes the "Lucifer" exists, yet again with no recorded evidence. So, your question is a non-question that belongs in a religion sub and not here.

Your answer assumes a priori all historical records are made accurately, maintained, protected from destruction, or unfalsifiable.

There is recorded evidence, unrecorded evidence, and evidence recorded that is no longer public or that has been destroyed/hidden.

There is recorded evidence, unrecorded evidence, and evidence recorded that is no longer public or that has been destroyed/hidden.

The onus is on you to prove it.

Actually as the OP of this particular thread ie that Jesus Christ never existed the onus is on you.

And I guess you never looked up the Romans who did indeed make mention

I was playing Devil's advocate. I am not religious, and as such, I don't really give a shit one way or the other.

Don't question greatness! Nighthawk knows everything! With his gazillion alt accounts😂

I think it is relevant because of the belief system of the people who rule the world. They have certain religious believes, and they are willing to enslave humanity based on those beliefs.

despite no recorded evidence (The Bible is not evidence)

"No, not that evidence!"

The historicity of Jesus is not really in doubt, friend. Be Christian or don't be Christian, but a man by that name lived in that place at that time and said those things.

Be Christian or don't be Christian, but a man by that name lived in that place at that time and said those things.

You will need to be a lot more specific.

Theres a dude named jesus that lives in vegas and saved the city from certain disaster during a shooting at mandalay bay a few months ago.

But.....that Doesnt mean he can turn water into wine or save me from my sins.

Lucifer as in Satan?

I've read about theories by historians that Lucifer was basically mistranslated over time in the scripture, basically that his name (literally Morning Star I think?) referred to a specific king of the times, and it only came to refer to the devil through misunderstanding. I guess this doesn't really address your questions but if anyone knows more about it I'd be interested.

I've heard both referred as the morning star (which is a planet or star that raises before sun rise..I.e. they thought it brought the sun rise). We may never know with all the bible edits, but JC still had great teachings and as an excellent example of how to live your life.

But you are a Russian bot. How do we know we can trust you?

Meh, you are on reddit at 1PM on a saturday night, you got nowhere to go but up.

Jesus is also referred to as the Morning Star.

Venus represents Lucifer and Saturn represents Satan in the Occult.

Mitrya (excuse spelling) of theosophy is the closest sudo profit that resembles lucifer(semiyasha) imho

I've read about theories by historians that Lucifer was basically mistranslated over time in the scripture

That's not a theory, that's a fact. "Lucifer" is latin so it canot even be the actual name in the original text. It literally means morning star and is fou d in the bible only once, in a passage adressing a babylonian king.

Literally no theologan believes that this refers to Satan.

"Lucifer" is latin

Well duh. The word originates from the Vulgate, where it was used to translate the Hebrew helel, meaning "shining one." The Latin lucifer means "light-bringing," which is a fine translation.

and is found in the bible only once

It's found in the Hebrew text only once, in Isaiah. It's found more frequently in the Vulgate.

Literally no theologan believes that this refers to Satan.

Except it does, because Isaiah is comparing Nebuchadnezzar to the fallen angel, parallels that are found elsewhere in the Bible, including in the gospels.

"Lucifer" as a proper name for the fallen angel didn't come around until the Middle Ages.

I really wish that people would read the actual bible to get knowledge of biblical figures.

You said it.

Isaiah is comparing Nebuchadnezzar to the fallen angel

The whole concept of fallen angels didn't even exist in the Hebrew bible. That's an invention of the Christians.

Book of giants, book of Enoch, book of Jasher were removed from the Bible and all describe the fallen angels.

Sons of God and their angels you mean.

You mentioned the middle ages.....have you ever seen the youtube series describing how there were no middle ages?

**its freaky with weird evidence. I am not convinced. But i slightly might have my doubts of whether its 100% wrong. Im not sure

The idea is that lots of documents / maps and art etc. That was originally supposed to be dated as 1594 or 1638 *(examples) were actually dated i-594 and j-638

As if to say theres like 1000 years of just made up history that didnt actually happen or isnt actually properly accounted for.

There's several things here.

First, what you're talking about is called the Phantom Time Hypothesis, and it isn't a "youtube series." It originated with a paper published by a German "historian" (and I use the term quite wrongly) around 1990.

Second, the hypothesis doesn't suggest that the entire thousand-year Middle Ages was fabricated. It suggests that the calendar was pushed ahead by about 200 years.

And third and finally, it's horseshit. Literally no one takes it seriously. We have piles of evidence that the year is exactly what we think it is, not least from astronomical observations that cannot possibly be faked.

Interesting. I just saw it on youtube the other day for the first time. And the one i saw had nothing about 200 years. It was 1000 years

You might be talking about something else altogether?

Nope. Look it up.

king of babylon, nebechednezzar i believe.

*to paraphrase, used in saying :" oh king who ruled all our lands, wonder of the world, the great star that brings the sun, how far you have fallen. you are no longer a great king" *it is the ONLY time the word lucifer appears in the bible texts.

That was juat comparing him to the fallen angel. Not saying nebakenezzar was lucifer

i don't think it was even comparing him to a fallen angel. seems more like the where comparing him to an object of respect and that he no longer resembles in splendor 'shining one'. and i agree neb neb was not a supernatural devine thing or a light in the sky.

Yes that's correct I meant he's like the Harvey Weinstein on back then which is he was the most powerful ruler in and suddenly he lost it and has much less respect and much less power

Yes and Buddha and Mohammed and Krishna

What if they are both fictional?

Neither of them actually exist, so it doesn't matter.

I think Lucifer represents humanity's desire to challenge the universe and Jesus is the eventual realization that you never can.

I've thought this for a while. Think about it. Satan is known as "the great deceiver". Well, then how do we know Christianity isn't deceiving its followers into thinking that their way is right when its actually wrong? How much conflict is created in the name of a Christianity? Most, in my opinion.

I think you need to read a book called

the story of b

The greatest already written book from 15 or 20 yrs ago its 17 chapters describing exactly what you said in those two sentences

Even though it's fiction does it provide real-world relevent information?

Yeah. For sure.

Daniel quinn has written a series of books all of them are intertwined around some basic principles.

The main idea is this: Humans are destroying earth.

It is not written from a perspective of a global warming fear monger. Its written based around the ideas that we are doing it to ourselves.

The first two books *(ishmael and my ishmael) are about a gorilla. Meaning they are narrated somewhat from a gorrmillas perspective - this gorilla was taken hostage - captured by humans and ends up becoming a "teacher" in a sense *(sounds far fetched - but trust me.....just read the book. It changed my perspective on everything!)

I have two periods in my life.

The 26 yrs of my life - including: Everything i knew before i read ishmael - and real life the way i see the world today after ishmael.

The story of b is the 3rd or 4th in the series of books - and it as well as beyond dechaute*(spelling?) Are more from a religious perspective.

Ishmael and my ishmael are more from a real world cause and effect perspective.

If you like to read.......i guarantee you nearly 100% if you read one of them you will want to gobble up the other 3 within less than 6 to 8 weeks of opening the first.

They really SORTOF go in order that ishmael was the first released but you could read them in almost any order *(except beyond dechaute should definitely be last)

Ishamel and my ishmael are different variations of the same story.

How about this - get one of those two and read it cover to cover - then come back to this thread and tell me your thoughts. If you dont feel enlightened - as if the book completely changed your perspective on humans/earth etc - then i will peraonally refund you the price of the book(a gift card code or usps or something)

**seriously. I am that sure.

I'll read it. It sounds great. I'll need some time.

And yes. I agree with your atatement 100%

The right way you speak of......in this case is "taking" everything from the earth. All its resources in an effort to make life good for billions and billions of humans - "god" in the good book even speaks to the idea - to be fruitful and multiply *(go out and have lots of babies and train them to be god worshippers like you)

Its more than just the huge number of wars fought in the name of religion.

Just the idea that humans are the reason for earth to exist. God *(humans creator) created the heavens and the earth in an effort to provide a great garden for people to live.

So he didnt create earth for elephants and monkeys and fishes and birds. He created everything to serve humans. Seems like a pretty goddamned selfish concept to me.

And it*(greed/religion/pride) is the whole reason we *(humans) destroy the earth unconditionally and with no fear of the consequences of our annual destructions.

**fyi i am not saying i believe god created heaven and earth.....just saying thats what his good book says

Personally I think they're friends.

Brothers?

Well if they were created directly by God, they'd be related.

they actually ARE brothers in mormon theology.

I think Lucifer is Enki, who according to the Sumerian creation story, used his dna to create man. I don't believe they are the same being.

What if God is one of us?

Just a slob like one of us?

A stranger on the bus?

Try'na make his way home?

Just a stranger among us?

All of us. God to me is the collective human consciousness.

Christ was a real person, see Tacitus, Suetonius, or Flavius Josephus for a historical perspecticve of the times. As to Lucifer, he isn't Satan (translation : Great Enemy) from the Jewish old testament. Lucifer is the first being to fall, sin and whatnot againt Creation. Lucifer doen't want to do what he's supposed to, so he has a rough time of it. Jesus (not in the historical concept) does what he's supposed to do (religiously), I have a tough time linking the two ideologies, only possible if there were a fundamental misunderstanding of what it meant to be human, though perhaps that's the conspiracy.

translation : Great Enemy

No, jjst no. Where did you get that from?

From the Hebrew, where ha satan means "the adversary" or, yes, "the enemy."

great

Left that out conveniently.

You're getting hung up on trivia. The Hebrew satan means one who opposes: adversary, enemy. In the Hebrew Bible is found the appellation ha satan, literally meaning the adversary, the one apart from all others, the special one. Translating that as "great enemy" is not a stretch at all.

Translating between languages is rarely a word-by-word operation. This is especially true when the languages are at most distantly related. Hebrew is a very different language from English. A variety of different English phrases can all be used to translate a single Hebrew word or phrase.

I thought it was ‘the accuser’?

A better translation would be the opposer, but we don't really use that word in English, so it's most commonly translated as "the adversary."

There is that whole thing about Jesus going up to heaven...

All prophets came to warn you about people who will control you by making up demons and evil beings. They understood that most people succumb to the ideas of the masses. These people claimed Devine right to boss people around when prophets die and made up daemons and shit to control you. Wake up it is time

Its a little more complicated than that. But not much more. Let me give you my opinion *(slightly based on dan quinns stories and modified by my own experiences with religion)

Ok so many thousands of years ago people were like animals *(ie they lived free - and they ate off the land......so if they were hungry they went into the woods and found some bananas or berries and thats what they ate. This is important because it was before the advent of agriculture *(and before the invention of religion)

So then one day this chick - we will call her eve. She said hey boyfriend......we will call him adam. Look i like it that you always go in the woods and find me these random fruits but these strawberries are like the bomb! I love these things. If you get me more strawberries i will give you oral pleasure.

So adam went back and found more and more strawberries. Cause he liked oral pleasure.

And he realized if he plants the seeds the strawberries actually grow in the area where they be hanging out at. So he did it again and suddenly he was able to have strawberries without going into the woods to look for them. And boom - agriculture was beginning to take shape.

Now with this all starting - more food was available and as such people could live safer *(and longer) and suddenly the human population started to boom and adam and eves sons and grandsons made more babies and more strawberries and the population got bigger.

But suddenly you had a different set of problems. You were less scared of going hungry - instead you were scared of the other humans doing bad, bad things. *(like stealing your strawberries, or forcing your sister to give you oral pleasure or killing you)

So the elders got together and said we need to make some rules *(we could theoretically call them commandments.)

I think ten is a good number. Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not commit adultry etc.etc.

And one of the elders said wait a minute these guys are never going to agree to follow all these rules. And the smartest one - we will call him moses - he said look - you let me convince them. These are not our laws. These are gods laws! If they think the rules came from a higher power - they will follow the rules.

TLDR - The whole religion thing is a way to control people since there are too many people to live together with no rules.

Pss - i can go all day with this theory about the bible stories. Ask me about cane and able and others. I can give you a realistic definition of how its a true story - just taken out of context

So you say that the people who are stealing killing are giving into their animalistic urges and the few who saw this made some rules ?

To some extent.....yeah

It is the natural order of evolution. The stronger animals get the most food. If their enemies screw around their enemies get dead.

But we have broken that system.

*we....humans.....figured out how to outsmart the normal food chain. By banding together and creating civilization.

Thousands of years ago if there was a famine thousands of people died. Now if theres a famine - usa ends in helicopters full of "aid" in the form of food and medicine

**which means the world continues to get more and more over populated with humans.

The laws of the jungle were over taken by the laws of man. But man was unable to control himself. "Humans" are greedy and selfish. To the point of destroying earth so badly that it wont be habitable in another 1000 yrs. (Likely way sooner)

Gnostic views of Christianity may illuminate this. the light bringer christ saving the world from a vengeful god.

Worthy

No need to worry about it because Jesus never existed. He's a fictional character inserted into history and has more in common with Forrest Gump in that respect than any actual historical figure.

ask the fbi. its what the mormons believe and the fbi recruits heavily from them.

http://www.cultwatch.com/mormon.html

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-mormons-make-great-fbi-recruits

No. That is ridiculous conclusion. So sorry for your blasphemy.

What if Adam was Eve? What if James was Mary? What if you are me? What if God was one of us?

Lucifer isn't Jesus, nor is Lucifer Satan. Lucifer is a demigod entity that offers pure power to humans. Due to the nature of humans, this always results in sin. Sometimes Satan encourages people to follow Lucifer by giving them confused ideas like your question.

Removed. Rule 12.

Only a few days late eh

Better late than never eh?

True eh