It’s undoubtedly a false flag orchestrated by rich neoliberals/globalists. The US government has a long history of false flags: WMDs. Anthrax, Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators, Gulf of Tonkin; all made up stories to manufacture consent for unpopular wars/conflicts.

Everything is a false flag. Nothing has actually happened, ever. Its all holograms.

Removed, rule 5.

Boo

I feel theres two possibilities: 1. Russia is being framed as a flase flag and they really didnt do it.

2: they did do it and it was a waening to other countries that not only are we nuclear where also chemical.

Its a scary situation either way. I also feel that Putins declaratiin to go to the moon is a way for him to gwt us to out more money amd resources into another project while he focuses on gaining more territory.

This is a sub that often discusses the idea that there are groups out there that operate in plan sight using symbols etc to mark their nefarious deeds. These groups fragrantly leave hints and clues so people will see but not understand. This is supposed to be a middle finger to communities like ours.

Then Russia seemingly does it and a whole bunch of people don't by it.

True but Russia has always had a space program. Odd now he fesses up to it during space race 2.0

They want to let the world know they can kill anyone, anywhere in a pretty horrific way. The massage is "Dont be a traitor/Dissident".

Its very Russian behavior....comrade

Maybe you are an idiot?

They don't care? If you buy nothing from Russia and Sell nothing to Russia how long will Russia survive? Anyone whose over the age of 25 should be educated on what happens when a WORLD EMBARGO is placed on you... exhibit Cuba after the fall of the Soviet union who was paying them.

(Cuba during the Soviet Union time was an amazing place... but after the union fell it brought out the ugly in people)

I've been to Cuba before, the people are actually really nice

Were you there after the fall of the soviet union when the millions in subsidies dried up and they had no food?

Yeah they werent very nice then.

Russians have been through worse, sanctions aint shit.

They want to let the world know they can kill anyone, anywhere in a pretty horrific way.

Then why deny it?

Russia's goal is to incite chaos and uncertainty. This type of infighting is exactly what they want. Don't forget that Putin worked for the KGB. This kind of mental power play is directly out if their playbook and Putin knows it well.

Putin is using MAD to his advantage - Even if every country were to join together and enact a world embargo against Russia, they can just go North Korea and beg for supplies with their finger on the button. But he knows the West will fold much quicker than that. The annexation of Ukraine proved that. Now he's brazenly giving the world the finger because he knows he's untouchable.

This is Russia were talking about. Psyops is their thing.

Russia isn't getting overrun by foreigners like Europe and the USA. The elites won't stand for Russia being a safe-haven from their plans.

Just my thought on this but I’m starting to think Russia feels comfortable enough that there will be no major or long lasting repercussions. So they don’t feel they have to hide what they are doing.

Kind of like when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia he wanted to see how much the other European powers would let him get away with.

Tell me... if Russia was so afraid of this guy that they concocted an elaborate scheme to murder him with an easily identifiable nerve agent... why did they let him out of prison? Why did they let him move to the UK as part of a "spy swap"?

In December 2004, he was arrested by Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) and later tried, convicted of high treason, and imprisoned. He settled in the UK in 2010 following the Illegals Program spy swap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal

This story is utter bullshit. They guy would never have made it out of prison alive if the Russians really feared him enough to do what they are accused of doing.

But his death sure has helped sell the anti-Russian agenda.

Qui Bono?

You ever watched The Wire? Gangsters don't just kill people because they are afraid of them. They kill them so other people will be afraid to do what that person did.

Pfft.

His daughter was living in Russia for over a decade after he was convicted - if they wanted to send a message she would have died years ago.

Gangsters don't wait more than a decade to send their messages.

You ever watch The Wire? Remember when they were killing people? How long did they wait to send a message?

Yeah, because a tv show is representative of political assassinations...

Very good reasoning.

Well what do they have to lose? The world has already sanctioned them etc

So rather than just having some guy walk in and put a bullet in his brain, they concocted a James Bond scheme of using nerve agent to kill him?

Or Putin is sending a message to any number of people in the lead up to his "re-election" to fall in line or face a bad death.

Also there have been no arrests so its possible the use of this toxin enabled the perpetrator to slip out of the country.

wouldn't the idea to be to send a message to any other future spies or whistle blowers. People are going to think twice about betraying Russia after seeing the potential consequences.

This was a message to Trump from Putin

Leave no doubt. If you fuck with Putin, there is no place you can hide. He will find you. He will kill you.

That's ridiculous. The last thing Russia wants is to provoke the west. Especially with all the stupid Russia fear mongering going on.

Why do you think they care about provoking the west?

What's the west going to do to him?

It's clear to me that the media and the governments behind them are preparing the public for some kind of confrontation with Russia/Iran/North Korea.

I'm not going to let Iraq and the WMDs happen all over again here. Fool me once..

Okay, so because you don't want a confrontation, you're prepared to defend Putin as a force for good in the world?

To be honest, I don't know enough about Russian foreign policy to say. I just know that the last time we let the media whip the US public into a frenzy based on unsubstantiated facts, 500,000 people died.

What would a fact have to be in order to meet the bar of "substantiated" in your mind?

How about evidence?

What, you want the doctor who treated Skripal to come to your house with Skripal's medical file and explain everything to you personally; a video of two guys in adidas windbreakers putting the nerve agent in Skripal's house, a hand written confession by Putin himself?

However the British government determined it would be enough for me. They're the ones making the accusation, so I'd like to see their evidence.

Well, it was a Russian dissident living in exile. They identified the type of nerve agent, and traced it to a type only used by Russia.

That plus Putin's history of killing dissenters in Britian, like Alexander Litvinenko, seems to be the basis for their case thus far, at least publicly.

It stinks of the same bullshit that happened when we were told that Iraq had WMD's. I'm not falling for that again.

When we were told that Iraq had WMD's, the wheels of war were already turning and they were trying to enact, not sanctions, but an AUMF against Iraq.

We're not going to start a war with Russia over this. We've consistently pussied out of wars with nuclear powers.

That's what this is, only thing is Trump wasn't part of the plan.The fake media is 180 degrees from the truth they are liars.and the Warmongers are waiting they aren't leaving and there pressuring trump,Don't buy into this Russian crap till someone proves it with solid evidence.remember all the death since 911 that has been proven a mistake or false,do your own research,you can't trust russia,and some of our own government.

Gulf of Tonkin and the testimony of Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ happened before the WMD's. So we have been fooled at least three times already. No doubt we will be fooled again because we don't remember anything or learn from history. Just like you thinking it was the first time with WMD's. I do hope that when you were fooled for the first time in your life, you were motivated enough to look into other lies used to garner publuc support for wars? Maybe your search also led you to the various ways government propaganda has been used as well? You seem worked up about WMD's, but I get the feeling you don't bother to dive too deep.

Didn't North Korea do the same thing to one of Kim Jong Un's relatives last year with a nerve agent? Plus Russia used polonium to kill Litvinenko in 2006. Hell, they killed Trotsky in 1940 with an ice axe. Every one of these seems like some James Bond type shit, but it actually happens.

They almost didn't catch it. Who knows how many other people they have done it to

I mean that's kinda out there to compare taking over land for strategic/romantic purposes, versus killing a spy for literally no reason. I mean one is worth the risk the other is just silly.

Also the job was freaking messy, why use an easily traceable chemical if they could've just used a bullet. Someone's trying to frame someone

Every country participates in assassinations. Russia just doesnt give a fuck, it was a message and Im willing to bet it worked.

If you fuck with Russia you will be a target.

Nothing will happen from this because a military conflict is bad for the bottom line, Putin knows this.

Look at the sanctions America just put into place, its against less than 20 people. Nothing

Or it's Russia trying to prove a point to current spys. Doesn't matter how much time passes, we will get you. You cross us, you'll end up dead.

I mean Russia did annex land from 2 countries within the last 10 years...

Putin already tested his leash with the west when he marched into Chrimea. He can get away with anything.

I'm sure this sort of behaviour only makes most Russians support Putin even more, and Putin knows this. Even when he isn't responsible for the things he is accused of he doesn't deny the accusations, because having this air of mystery, this persona of being in control of world events makes him look very strong. Putin is first and foremost a master of manipulating his own public image.

Apparently we are supposed to always assume our government and our closest allies are lying to us and dictator Putin is always telling the truth.

I absolutely don't believe they were framed. But I will say I think it's possible that it was the daughter's boyfriend's mom who poisoned them.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5823981/nerve-agent-that-poisoned-sergei-skripal-was-planted-in-his-daughters-suitcase-before-she-left-russia/

Relatives are pointing the finger at the prospective mother-in-law after it was disclosed she was a highly-ranked Russian security official.

The mum, who has not been identified, is said to have been furious that her son was marrying into the family of a man who betrayed 300 Russian agents.

An honest question - do you believe your elected representatives represent your interests?

Yeah im aware of why people dont trust the government. But what boggles my mind is why people trust the Russian government.

Nobody trusts the russian government. Come on, you have to be able to think more critically.

To question if Russia 100% ordered the assasination of a defector, 21 years later, is completly rational. You have to think critically at both sides of the story.

You mention later that the boyfriends mother, daughters mother in law, who is in russian intelligence could be behind the attack. if that is the case, it is not a nation state attacking another nation state but rather a family problem in a family that crosses international lines and into the intelligence community

I do think that's a possibility. I don't think Russia was framed though.

Why not?

Because none of our allies want war with Russia and all of them already think Russia sucks dick. They didn't need to try and kill someone to manufacture a reason to explain to their public that Russia sucks.

Fair points thx

Because none of our allies want war with Russia and all of them already think Russia sucks dick. They didn't need to try and kill someone to manufacture a reason to explain to their public that Russia sucks.

But freezing all that Russian Money and Property and then confiscating it sure would be nice wouldn't it?

What happened to Gaddaffis frozen assets?

Because none of our allies want war with Russia and all of them already think Russia sucks dick. They didn't need to try and kill someone to manufacture a reason to explain to their public that Russia sucks.

How in the world can you come to this conclusion? It is really mind-boggling.

Who has instigated the wars and conflicts against Russia? Was it Russia or NATO/US?

We certainly don't want war, but the international bankers and the US MIC sure do. That, and Russia is directly in the way of completely burning the M.E to the ground, and they can't have that. It was thanks to Russia and Iran intervening that they lost the chance to topple Assad.

Using an "obvious" (not even obvious, since any equipped lab can make small amounts of Novichuk) neurotoxin is like Assad using "sarin" gas at a time he was actively winning against the jihadist rebels. It doesn't make any sense. The only people who benefit from such an action are the Western powers. Russia gains absolutely nothing, and it is piss poor logic that you think they would do this to "send a message" when doing so would cross a red line, guarantee more sanctions, and increase tensions (so they would be losing out on millions potentially).

You're best not to trust either of them.

We're to examine evidence and reach a proper conclusion. Disagreeing with the western media and intelligence (they're one of the same these days) does not make you pro-Putin. I am anti-imperialist, The US and Russia are both imperialistic regimes. I am all for holding Putin's feet to the fire on his past crimes, but that doesn't mean I do not require actual evidence before forming a conclusion. Ever since the DNC rigged the primaries it has been Russia,Russia,Russia.

How ate you going to examine the evidence? Unless you are some chemical scientist working for the English government, this is about whether you believe our allies on this, or Putin.

Ok let's examine the claim. A nation state conducted a chemical attack on another Nation state and killed a citizen, a double agent spy. This is a huge accusation, stating it was a Russian nerve agent does not translate to it being a sanctioned attack from the Russian government. Western intelligence has been after Russia, both the UK and US. Many claims they have made have been debunked. It isn;t about believing Putin or UK intelligence. It's about knowing how they came to the conclusion that it was a state sanctioned attack. If the method of the attack is the only evidence to the claim, then I find that evidence severely lacking considering the magnitude of the claim being presented.

Which claims have been debunked? They used and untraceable nerve agent. It was specifically created to avoid chemical detection sensors. So the way they figured out it was novichok was from the grouping of symptoms they had when they found them. So you're not gonna get lab results on this. So it comes down to who you believe. And it sounds like you don't believe our allies on this.

I do not believe either of them. And if you do you're foolish. This isn't black/white. As far as bebunked stories, this is one of many. It has been Russia all year long. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/report-vermont-power-grid-infiltrated-by-russian-hackers/

Gotcha so that's one. What else?

I know your sort. I know you love you some MSM talking points. I wont play your game.

You said many claims have been debunked and you give me one story they got wrong? Then when asked for other examples you ain't gonna play no mo games? Cool dude.

Yea just a minor story of Russia hacking our electrical grid. Whats the big deal.

Spicy downvotes bro. Yeah so one story. Still waiting on the other ones. Let me know whenever.

Rather just block you. I can watch NBC if I wanted your opinion.

Oof Gotta back up your arguments dude. This wasn't a good showing.

Who told you that the nerve agent was only made in Russia?

Were they the same people that said Saddam Hussein could launch a chemical attack against the UK in under 45 minutes? Or maybe the same people that said Iraq had an active WMD program in 2003?

Why should we believe anything these proven liars say?

according to the UK's own chemical weapons guys the stuff is easier to produce than most other chemical weapons and can be made with over the counter products.

frankly i suspect Israel is behind it.

That or Porton Down intentionally or unintentionally released some of the nerve agent. Their labs are in the same county and as Sailsbury, and guardian called the Russian lab where the agent was first developed the "Russian version of Porton Down". Theres also the fact that Porton Down was the base of proven conspiracy in the 80's to test nerve agents on members of the UK population in various towns including SAILSBURY.

So we have a chemical weapons facility situated in Sailsbury that is know to have used nerve agents in Sailsbury perviously, and what are we doing? No enquiry into a possible leak, regardless of intention, infact literally 2 or 3 days after this happens we gave them something like 75m in extra funding....

yeah i saw that, i mean am i the only one who sees some similarities to the background events in "v for vendetta"

Talk about election meddling

election meddling.

This narrative again.... Smh

So the emails got leaked.

Even if the Russians did it (although it seems like Seth rich or Americans may have), all it did was show people who the Clinton mob really are.

Oh yeah and some fake Facebook ads and groups.

Its just the new narrative of "weapons of mass destruction". A new president, a new decade, hell a new enemy. Where did this lead us last time. A false narrative, a false flag, being flown to garner support for American interventions. Dont fall for it AGAIN.

Occam's razor

I spent some time going through the alternatives and the explanation that Russia is behind the attack to their is a global conspiracy to frame Russia is simple.

If anything Wikileaks has shown that western governments are quite ineptitude is keeping secrets. And given all the items related to Russia in last three years it will take lot to keep it secret.

Unless there is some evidence beside he said/she said, I think we will safe assuming it is Russia.

Unless there is some evidence beside he said/she said, I think we will safe assuming it is Russia.

So its Russia even thought he only evidence is He said/she said?

Yes, because it is the simplest explanation.

That is piss poor logic.

Occam's razor is a thought experiment. It is completely useless when you factor in the human element and geopolitics.

These groups immediately convicted Russia with no evidence, and are actively bypassing international bodies that are in place to investigate shit like this. That's why Russia said "give us a damn sample."

False flags have been used extensively (Operation Gladio) to push agendas and wars. Russia has been fighting back against NATO aggression and have been trying to lessen sanctions, but we are led to believe they risked millions of dollars to murder an old man and his daughter with a neuro toxin to "send a message."

That kind of reasoning is akin to a 5 year old's which completely ignores history and the current geopolitical situation. "Russia bad. Britain good. NATO good." It also closely resembles the MO of the "sarin" gas attacks. Assad, who was winning the war, did the only thing which would guarantee his downfall, and gassed non-vital military targets, literally random civilians.

Really.

What will Russia do after given the sample ? Thats a no go. You will never get any conclusion from that angle. That is going nowhere.

Really, Russia and Putin never send messages ? Go check the murders in the Russia in last decade of opponents.

Nobody said NATO, that is your preconceived notion. Again, what is anybody getting about having sanction against Russia. What is the end game here ?

Just that given the situation the best possible explanation is always the simplest one.

You keep on drinking your piss poor logic to eternity.

What will Russia do after given the sample ? Thats a no go. You will never get any conclusion from that angle. That is going nowhere.

They don't even have to give it to Russia. They can have the OPCW come in and take samples.

Really, Russia and Putin never send messages ? Go check the murders in the Russia in last decade of opponents.

More piss poor logic. "They've done it before so therefore it's Russia!" Which ignores the geopolitical climate and the last 20 years of history.

Nobody said NATO, that is your preconceived notion. Again, what is anybody getting about having sanction against Russia. What is the end game here ?

Considering Russia is NATO's primary threat, enacting sanctions that would cripple Russia's economy would prevent them from keeping the peace in, say, Syria.

Just that given the situation the best possible explanation is always the simplest one.

It's a piss poor explanation and frankly lazy thinking. It's the kind of pseudo-intellectualism I would expect from a modern "skeptic."

You keep on drinking your piss poor logic to eternity.

Will do!

Simples explanation.

Is the uk false flagged it to freeze russian money and property they could then confiscate while builsing a anti-russia narrative for the future.

FWIW, pinning down Russia money is difficult. While for person the money might seem large for a nation state its not much. And frozen money can't be used by government, at least not like Russia where Putin simply took the money from Khorodvosky I think.

There doesn't seems to be any end game for false flag.

What internation protocol's are you talking. International protocols are a always a joke.

The Canadian incident is non-sequitter. I don't got the relevancy here. UK or any country is not beacon of fairness. Every country is shady. Some more than others. In Russia's case it is lot lot more than others.

And frozen money can't be used by government,

Yes they can. Look at what happened to Gaddaffis frozen assets. Poof all gone.

There doesn't seems to be any end game for false flag.

The end game is to Attack Iran and Syria... With zero Russian Meddeling.

What internation protocol's are you talking. International protocols are a always a joke.

There is a specific protocol when a member states accuses another member state of Chemical Warfare. You can go educate yourself on it. Its Investigatory co-operation btw. \

Every country is shady. Some more than others. In Russia's case it is lot lot more than others.

Disagree. Id say other countries are way more shady then Russia.

US. Is5eal. China. All way more shady.

The Canadian incident is non-sequitter.

Shows the UK has lost its marbles.

Gadafi money, there is no source, it is one of case. Again that money is tiny tiny bit for a country.

There will be Russian meddling as well as western. False flag or not. Again a non-sequiter.

Which member state for which agency. Just make non sense on internet to support you claim. Source please.

Marble, LOL. What is point you are trying to make is beyond me, with Canadian non sense.

Source for how united nations are supposed to treat each other is easily googleable.

If you want a source go educate yourself on how an accusation of chemical weapons use is supposed to be handled internationally.

Iran money is still there... says who?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frozen_assets

I always cite international law. Maybe uk should follow it?

wikileaks has shown that a concerted effort to spy on american citizens have gone on for years and nobody of the thousands of people involved said a thing until snowden revealed it.

I am not able to convincing answer What the western government gain by framing Putin and Russia ?

Your use of Occams razor is very flawed and unsubstantiated in this case

Forgive my friend, actually there is nothing to substantiate with Occam's razor. Its way of solving the problem. As in always go with simple solution. Please do give the wiki a read.

But the reasoning given for it being the "simplest solution" doesn't sound simple at all to me.

Yes, you are special my friend.

Russia literally invaded the Ukraine 4 years ago and still occupies the land stolen. This latest act isn't as bold really.

Its really their land though.

Crimea was gifted to Ukraine because it was so small and they wanted nice borders on the maps in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union then built everything in Crimea.

Also they didnt invade it. Read the definition of Invade please use proper English.

Invade: enter (a place, situation, or sphere of activity) in large numbers, especially with intrusive effect.

So that's exactly what they did. I guess the dead Crimeans don't matter since they weren't the majority. And everyone knows something "gifted" can be taken back by force later and that's totally ok /s. The fuck are you talking about?

You're telling me to use proper English after that barely comprehensible comment?

You need to go edit Crimea wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics

Not a single russian soldier entered crimea.

So they didnt invade them. The soldiers were already in crimea. Learn english. 29 people upvotes you... 29 idiots in the house.

The dead Crimeans? There was zero casualties in the crimea take over.

Im telling you to use proper venacular. Invade is incorrect.

Crimea was Russia. I know ive been there.

It’s not just Crimea, there’s still fighting eastern Ukraine

Riiiiight, because Ukraine is able to fight off the full force of the Russian army. /s

I mean, are you doubting that there is fighting going on in Eastern Ukraine? It's been an ongoing armed conflict for years: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-conflict/fighting-in-eastern-ukraine-worst-since-february-osce-idUSKBN1EE05A

The narrative that Russia is invading but just can't fight past those plucky Ukrainians is patently absurd.

Honestly it is much less intelligent to believe that in 2018 a war would look like a full armed engagement? You're right though, it's probably like Russia says and members of its army just decided to take a vacation in Eastern Ukraine (with their tanks and light infantry gear).

Ok and where are these tanks in the conflict? Show me a news source of seperatists using tanks to fight the illegal kiev goverment.

Did you try clicking on the link on the post you are responding to?

Yeah.

I didnt see any visual evidence of tanks fighting ukraniane army or being at the front lines of the conflict.

What they bring in tanks and park them in the back to chill?

No, silly. UKRAINE is saying that. You know, the junta that is in power after the EU/US-backed coup of Ukraine's elected president. Here, I'll highlight from your own deceptively-headlined article:

The Russian government has deployed thousands of armored vehicles and troops into Ukraine to support separatist rebels in the war-torn country's eastern region, Ukraine's top defense official says, despite *repeated assertions from Moscow of minimal military involvement there*.

and

Moscow has repeatedly denied any large-scale deployment of troops into Ukraine.

Did you read it? You are right that Russia has denied large scale deployment of troops, because: separatist leader in 2014 dismissed reports of Russian soldiers operating there in 2014 as simply off-duty troops on vacation.

But way to pull out certain quotes to make it look however you want.

here is another source for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/28/russians-troops-fighting-in-ukraine-naw-just-on-vacation/?utm_term=.4be14f64aa48

Indeed I did. You said

"for anyone doubting, that is actually what Russia says is happening: "

And the article said the opposite. I mean, I could copy-paste the entire article if that makes you happy, but I figured simply pulling the relevant quotes would be adequate.

And yes, there are Russians fighting. But AFAIK they aren't state-sponsored, as you imply. Their defending their brothers, sisters, families from US/EU-backed foreign invaders, many of them non-Ukrainian mercenaries.

You are aware that up until the '90s, Russia and (formerly-called) The Ukraine were in the same country -- the USSR, yes? Lots of Russian-speaking folks live in formerly east Ukraine, but declared independence after the anti-Russian coup in Kiev took place. And Kiev won't let them go, because this area has most of Ukraine's natural resources

Yes by seperatosts who are against the illegal goverment of ukraine.

If your country was taken over illegaly against your conatitution. Would you follow the new goverment or fight.

Plus do you know anything about the conflict?

Eastern ukraine is rich in minerals. It sends all its money to kiev who then makes decisions with the money. The seperatists wanted to have the ability to govern their finances like we have provinces in canada.

But ukraine wouldn't allow that because they make lots of money and kiev wants it all and they sont share.

Easter ukraine are ukraniane patriots against a illegal goverment. That same illegal goverment shoots artillery at them... killing women and children.

Yeah, what they did was crimea against humanity.

bravo

Highway robbery. All turmoil and chaos is goaded for purposes of money making. The big conspiracy is that most people naturally want to be good, and get along. It is natural, and beautiful.

Sadly, dark forces are working hard to destroy kinship, and creativity. Even in small circles, it is obvious that there are choreographed efforts to make sure only the privileged succeed. If the playing grounds were leveled fair, our World would be much more advanced.

The reason why Novichok nerve agents would be used, regardless of who used them, is pretty simple. We don't know what the components are and we don't know the delivery method. That makes it easier to move around. We also know that a very small dose was used since the targets survived, and the agent is supposed to be extremely potent. Those things together imply that something very small was used in an attempt to kill these two. We can also assume that the attack was either not done professionally, or failed in some way.

It is unusual that someone would expose their country to protect their own identity. That being the case, I'd agree that this probably wasn't sanctioned by Russia. The only options that point to Russia are a direct attempt to antagonize, an attempt to confuse, or the assassin is an important spy whose identity is more valuable than implicating Russia.

This has Mi6 written all over it!

The terrorist narrative more or less failed when they used Isis. So they've just reverted back to an old classic one. Literally every government but a few are in in it together. Putin has no problem filling the role required to further an agenda of global enslavemnt.

Try living the opposite of how your being programmed. If they tell you one thing (fear Russia) do the opposite (love Russia). It's simple and very effective. All the research and resources that go into their propaganda is very easily undone.

They say give up your rights, fight to keep them. They've almost lost and it shows. They are literally using every card they have in their book. Hell their even pulling the alien and space card right now. That's when I knew they lost. All their plans had to be accelerated and that's why we see so many cracks and mistakes in the plan.

Stay positive and love.

Or it was russia sending a message.

You didn't get the memo, we are supposed to believe MSM and politicians on this one.

Russia just killed one of the opponents lawyer, Putin is about to get re-elected with a mass majority, anyone that runs against him gets i prisoned on or jailed, think of the Magnitsky act. Idk where this narrative of russia getting an undeserved bad rap comes from, but they know exactly what they’re doin and pushing their limits just like hitler did

They literally did just that with Litvinenko and Polonium a few year ago.Nothing happened then, so why wouldn’tthey do it again?

I don't doubt that Putin has opposition killed all around the world on a regular basis, but the method is a bit bizzare.

Why would they use a nerve agent, in public, on foreign soil? They chose the messiest method short of just bombing the whole town, with the largest potential repercussions for Russia (chemical weapons are not taken lightly by anyone on the world stage).

Either it's a blatant setup, or Russia wants the world to know exactly what they did, a very thinly veiled threat to the world.

of Russia wants the world to know: they gave Litvinenko's assassin a medal and he is in the Duma now!

Putin's whole shtick is cynicism taken to eleven, combined with the claim that everyone does it--nothing is true, everything is permissible, but as state policy rather than personal philosophy.

And Trump loves him. That's the amazing thing. Trump looked at Saddam Hussein gassing and killing hundreds of civilians and he *praised Saddam!" Trump has repeatedly praised the dictator in the Philippines. He has praised Kim Jong Un. He loves not just authoritarians and dictators, but specifically several who are known murderers.

And American conservatives love Trump. They are on board 100%.

American conservatism is the most malignant force imaginable.

Russia wants the world to know exactly what they did, a very thinly veiled threat to the world.

Exactly this. They've already proven to themselves they can get away with actions like this. Why not push the envelope and use it to increase the perception of their power?

If Putin would have aided the Obama administration, like he did the Trump administration. These phony GOP fuckers would have already peeled the skin off his back.

I think it's easier to blame ISIS for this. The west is being overrun with refugees, half the time they work for ISIS. Russia isn't being overrun. So they make the west put sanctions and stuff on Russia and hell, maybe even going to war, so ISIS can just move in and continue their agenda of devolving civilization. I find that alot more plausible.

I think That Uk and Us are in a position that Putin has the legal upper hand according to a combination of international legal treaties ,agreements that matured or expired etc. The US and UK is belligerent to agree on anything russia demands in new agreements So they're using the CIA,Mi6,and hacking tools to frame them into war

They want the world to know. This is a warning, to both emigres and those testifying against Trump. It is a warning to Manifort to keep his mouth shut.

Do you remember when Anthrax was sent to Washington DC shortly after 9/11? They said the bio-trackers on the anthrax was from Iraq. They invaded, and then the news started saying that they got the lab tests wrong. The anthrax actually had no bio-trackers.

It's probably like that....

Totally, makes zero sense for Russia to do something like that, most certainly a setup/false flag. Even more so in the context of constant anti-Russia propaganda and provocation by the West. And given the hurried response and blaming of Russia without actual evidence, the UK intelligence is in on it. It's a concerted effort. Wouldn't be surprised at all if the CIA, as evil as that organization is, had something to do with it too.

And even if the Russian government wanted to assassinate the guy, there are so many better ways of doing so (ask the CIA...). Using a nerve gas is like the last thing they would do, it's the stupidest/dumbest way of doing it.

So weird... Russia keeps doing the conglomerates' dirty work for them, and then being paid in slander by the conglomerates.

All the others... down with the sickness...

So rather than just having some guy walk in and put a bullet in his brain, they concocted a James Bond scheme of using nerve agent to kill him?

I mean that's kinda out there to compare taking over land for strategic/romantic purposes, versus killing a spy for literally no reason. I mean one is worth the risk the other is just silly.

Also the job was freaking messy, why use an easily traceable chemical if they could've just used a bullet. Someone's trying to frame someone

I know your sort. I know you love you some MSM talking points. I wont play your game.

Putin already tested his leash with the west when he marched into Chrimea. He can get away with anything.

It's clear to me that the media and the governments behind them are preparing the public for some kind of confrontation with Russia/Iran/North Korea.

I'm not going to let Iraq and the WMDs happen all over again here. Fool me once..

I'm sure this sort of behaviour only makes most Russians support Putin even more, and Putin knows this. Even when he isn't responsible for the things he is accused of he doesn't deny the accusations, because having this air of mystery, this persona of being in control of world events makes him look very strong. Putin is first and foremost a master of manipulating his own public image.