I suggest an experiment to put the sub in controversial mode for threads and comments by default. That should throw a spanner in the JTRIG/GCHQ cunts' works.

Contest mode + Flair for "current politics"

All threads or are we continuing the pattern of only putting threads that make Trump look bad into contest mode?

Yes

+1 on contest mode for a trial period.

Sorting by controversial can be switched off by the users. You can even set your settings to always sort threads by top. That experiment won't do anything unless they also hide the vote scores.

Contest mode is set by mods and can't be turned off by the users, which is why you see shills freaking out every time it happens.

Sounds good. This sub is being drowned by that mess, let there be contest mode.

Sorry but what does astroturfing mean?

ah ok, makes sense. Thanks for explaining

Nice write up.

Totally agree. r/politics has morphed into conspiracy theories and r/conspiracy has become r/politics with its mainstream political posts that include a half assessed submission statement

OP is a mod here who constantly pushes pro-Russia content and he's upset people aren't buying it any more.

Yes, questioning the narrative and offering a different perspective is "pro Russia" now. AP is most definitely guilty of thought crimes and wrong think.

And "stifle the discussion?" Comments like yours are the attempts to stifle discussion by labeling views you don't agree with as "pro Russia." Neo McCarthyist bullshit smear tactics. If you don't like opposing viewpoints, fuck off to r politics were you can OD on countless daily Russian boogeyman circle jerk threads.

If you're always offering the same "different perspective", you're sketchy as fuck.

When I defend democrats or MSM does that make me pro democrats or MSM?

No. You're only allowed the benefit of the doubt when defending Russia or White Supremacists. If you're "offering a different perspective" that happens to not fit that narrative, you're a paid shill.

I do find it odd that the most upvoted comments in a lot of posts recently have been allegations of Russian downvote squads in the thread. If those accusations are true someone is bad at their jobs. I'm not saying there isn't vote manipulation all over Reddit but it seems off.

Russia has been caught red-handed playing both sides. It's clear that they favor one group in power over others, but they're happy just stirring shit.

So you're saying you think Russian bots are upvoting your comments?

It usually happens in the new section. But once it goes to rising or the front page it changes

On the other side of the coin, if I criticize a Democrat, does that make me pro-trump?

According to the prevailing opinion on this sub-- the answer is yes

No. It does not make you pro-Trump.

The vote counts on my comment history says otherwise.

There can be multiple reasons why someone would downvote you.

Funny how my anti Trump/GOP comments literally never get downvoted. Ever.

There's a reason for that.

It could be brigading, it could be shills, or it can be that the majority of people are just anti-Trump/GOP on reddit.

Reddit, historically, has always been majority liberal users.

I'm pro conspiracies, and I'm liberal and anti Trump and anti GOP.

It could be brigading, it could be shills, or it can be that the majority of people are just anti-Trump/GOP on reddit.

Funny how none of those seem to make sense in the context of the "don 2.0" argument.

I'm anti establishment. Nuff said

I'm not sure what you mean.

It's really simple.

If this sub is don 2.0, how is it that Democrat brigading determines vote counts?

If this sub is don 2.0, how is that pro-democrat shills are able to control the discussion?

If this sub is don 2.0, how is it that the majority of people here are just anti-Trump?

Really, simple. Surprised you failed to parse that.

Ah. We've had this conversation before I believe.

I believe at the end of that conversation I said I'd try to do less flying off at the handle and you said you'd try to be more aware of/open to stuff that disproves the don 2.0 LARP.

Well, here we are, and I'm not flying off the handle or being aggressive. You are still choosing to ignore stuff that conflicts with the LARP.

What does that tell you

What? I never said this place was don 2.0 in this thread?

So do you agree, at this point, that the Donald 2.0 narrative is being actively manufactured?

I think the narrative that Conspiracy is Donald 2.0 is wrong. But, I don't think it's manufactured, but there is a possibility it is.

I think people feel that way due to past moderation decisions and some of the regulars who defend Trump or attack the Russian conspiracy give people a false perception of that. Because I at least have felt that before, but you have changed my mind and I realize that vast majority are more liberal minded folks.

I think you'll begin to see that it is manufactured... When you start seeing that the most vocal proponents of the don 2.0 larp themselves are regularly getting upvoted on their don 2.0 comments. At a certain point it goes beyond confirmation bias into a willful ignorance.

And you're just a random hiveminder who posts in r/politics, /r/Fuckthealtright, /r/AgainstHateSubreddits, and /r/TopMindsOfReddit.

You're the problem were talking about. The people who hate critical thinking and love their mainstream news propaganda. And then you get upset when we don't also love your propaganda.

Oh, no. I'm not loving your propaganda. I guess you hate critical thinking and love the mainstream news propaganda. You're the problem.

Since you contribute to top minds it makes sense that you’d get banned here.

Isn't your comment kind of hypocritical considering you post to /r/The_Donald?

Notice the difference in votes between these two comments.

Seems odd that the top comments of this post are calling out T_D for brigading, yet anything critical of T_D is upvoted while comments about /r/politics and their spam subs almost go negative.

Odd how T_D and those "russian bots" are voting against their interests in these posts.

No, go look at what I've posted there.

Yeah, that thread is way too obvious.

turn off the voting.

the voting manipulation is still useful to tell which topics are verboten and why.

I thought I read somewhere that CSS only turns off desktop voting not mobile apps ability to vote.

make every upvote a downvote and visaversa.

I thought I read somewhere that CSS only turns off desktop voting

They can remove the upvote/downvote icons on desktops, but you can still press Z to downvote a post even when the icons are removed. There is no way to stop people upvoting/downvoting.

Threads calling out the media get upvoted all the time in this sub.

Yes, but there is a difference between the heavily brigaded threads and the "not-so-brigaded threads".

I was actually worried about whether or not r/conspiracy had been "compromised" by the US extreme right. But then I went to some of their subs and found out that they do not normally behave this way.

I agree with OP that r/conspiracy is being heavily brigaded by mainstream subs and it is very problematic.

It's not even getting brigaded by "mainstream subs" so much as it's being obviously brigaded by Liberal activism.

Six to one, half a dozen to another.

I agree that the media as a whole has consistently been called out in the sub and should continue to be. Although I personally see was AP is talking about, and think it's the partisan aspect of it ass, which resides on both sides. Astroturfing isn't anything new, it was even an issue years ago in r/politics when they started moderating it and it's gotten a lot more sophisticated since then. I think the issue we see here the intent and willingness to ignore the larger conspiracy for the pure intent of making it a partisan issue. For instance, there was a thread yesterday calling out George Nader, who's an associate of the White House/Trump, as a pedo, which I think is an important topic. The issue is, the same people who will brigade and argue in a post about Nade, aren't interested in discussing the larger issue with Pedo's in both the left & right wings of our governments. It's the same issue I see with Trump supporters who don't like to discuss Trumps connections to Jeff Epstein. In the case that AP brought up, fox has always been a hypocrite, shit they even went to court to clarify that they can lie to the public. This isn't anything new, but if you try to bring up the fact that most (I can't really think of one), who has intentionally lied or miss lead the public. The MSM as a whole is just the propaganda arm of TPTB and designed to keep people from discussing the larger topics, by it a US vs Them mentality between the news outlets. It's the same old divide and conquer technique. With all that said, I really don't know if hiding votes will help anything, from what I've been watching since becoming a mod, these various groups are running a sophisticated attack and worry that in our attempt to resolve the issue, it only hurts the sub more. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a happy medium, and I'm not sure if there is one.

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From an honest r/conspiracy user:

Let me (us) call a shill a shill.

I am tired of seeing the same dumbass users show up like clockwork to threads pertaining to their assigned topics, knowing full well they are simply there to post their talking points from their script -- to obfuscate, distract, and discredit.

These users have no "pro-conspiracy" posts or comments, it's clear that they don't believe in any conspiracy, and it's obvious they are receiving upvotes from mysterious sources since there's no way that so many real users would upvote comments that are sarcastic, devoid of information, and anti-conspiracy.

Yet unlike any other sub I am aware of, here we are not simply allowed to say with confidence what everyone with eyes to see already knows: "shill, everyone."

The best we can do is ask them why they are here. Don't get me wrong, this technique can work effectively, but whatever reason anyone can come up with to explain why we get censored and banned for leveling honest shill accusations is inadequate since this is a sub that unlike so many others is actually under constant shill surveillance and attack.

So rather than bullshitting us by considering shill accusations a personal attack, as though shills need their feelings protected, let us call them what they are. In fact, who gives a shit about personal attacks? I am personally attacked almost every time I make a pro-conspiracy statement here. If people want to use a logical fallacy known as ad hominem they are doing my work for me. But because they don't use a "no-no word" like faggot or shill, they are allowed to use these personal attacks, but I can't simply retort with "you are here on assignment to muddy the waters, shilling on the Internet."

If someone calls someone else a shill, don't remove the comment. Compile these accusations. If enough "honest users" accuse someone of being a shill, if they have no pro-conspiracy theory post or comment history, if they show up almost every time a certain topic is brought up, if they have unexplained and disproportionate karma, the shoe probably fits.

Won't pretty much any argument devolve into an infinite loop of shill accusations? No matter how objective someone thinks they're being, their understanding of who is and isn't a shill is largely informed by their ideology.

not if the one who isn't shilling relies on fact based argument without using any of the shill tactics themselves.

One problem I see with this is that people cannot even agree on a 'ground truth' - is there such a thing as objective reality on /r/conspiracy?

As for shill tactics, can you specify any that would help make the distinction outlined in my earlier comment? Beyond copypasta responses, what tells are there?

there exists an objective self evident truth. argument would work towards that truth, exclusive of shill tactics.

If all parties participate in good faith, sure. I think that's asking too much of an anonymous forum ("Here be dragons"). Unless you believe we can root them out entirely, it's clear we must find a way to cohabitate with trolls and shills.

I don't see how rescinding rule 10 would help here. What problem does it solve (that reasoned argument does not)? Besides, we still haven't defined a reliable litmus test.

the reliable litmus test is easy. the gentleman's guide to forum spies spells it out. any of these tactics, especially personal attack is a dead giveaway. tension and division is their game.

gentleman's guide to forum spies

Thanks, this is a great resource. (Link for anyone following along: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm)

But - and this is a big but - I don't see how some these could be applied objectively. One man's 'consensus crack' is another man's shitty argument, for example. Personal attacks, on the other hand, are obvious and I agree that it's a good place to start.

The key is to argue in good faith - shills do not do this.

Yeah I don’t see how accusing someone of being a shill solves anything.

Just argue with facts and evidence and with civility.

People are smart enough to see the obvious and make their own conclusions.

Uh, not when they don't even see your comment because it has been vote brigaded. If a post hits a random user's front page they might open it out of curiosity. Guess what, they're not going to reliably weigh each comment with their own judgment. They're going to likely notice that someone like Rockran has 20 (artificial) upvotes and fall victim to the bandwagon fallacy.

You rang?

Absolutely not, that would require comments with content.

Laaaame you can come up with something funnier than that. That's like so 2016.

Go ahead and find a comment of yours with any argument, substance, or information or, alternatively, one that is favorable towards any conspiracy theory. One that people might realistically think is clever and upvote.

Yeah, but once I make it clear that I am pro-3rd party and rabidly anti-establishment, mainstream parties people just stop replying to me because they can't call me a ____ shill.

I am tired of seeing the same dumbass users show up like clockwork to threads pertaining to their assigned topics, knowing full well they are simply there to post their talking points from their script -- to obfuscate, distract, and discredit.

Who do you think are the "shills"?

Well if I could say that then I wouldn't have had to make that comment, would I?

Contest mode everything for 48 hrs, for the 50th frikkin time.

I amazed that this is so unpopular. /s

Yes, surely this comment isn't being manipulated. Contest mode hurts genuine users more than shills. /s

Are there other subs that have experienced this kind of manipulation, and if so, have they taken any steps to counter it? To what effect? It would be wise to try to learn from others if possible.

IMO, the manipulated threads are pretty obvious to regular users. If you use RES, up and down vote by quality not content, and have the dagger enabled, these threads stick out like a sore thumb. I find the manipulation itself quite revealing as to where resources are being placed to control narratives. That tell is important information for anyone questioning the propaganda.

Yes, every sub on reddit seems to go through this if it is shown to have influence on opinions.

Every single subreddit on Reddit that is anti-establishment to the D's. The main objective is keeping content off /all. It's why you will see a pro-Sanders article get downvoted to 50% in a sub that is pro-Sanders. Where said article originated doesn;t matter.

I don't know what can be done at this point because it's gotten so bad. I rarely bother to post anymore because of it. Aside from a major ban hammering and turning off voting completely, I don't see what could possibly improve anything at this point.

What you do you want to ban the commenters in those threads for? thoughtcrime? And If you ask me, many of the downvoted comments are a perfect example of whataboutism, a propaganda technique.

I've been around this sub for years, and an article highlights the problem with MSM is exactly the kind of content that has always been popular around here. The problem is that MSM is pro-administration. So it got Trump's champions like OP all upset.

I'm happy to see this sub showing some defiance from the T_D crowd that invaded us.

Submissions get cross posted between /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy all of the time, yet the topic of vote manipulation only really gets brought up when it's a crosspost with /r/politics and it conflicts with the pro-Trump agenda. The controversial section on /r/conspiracy is a graveyard for anything that portrays Trump in a negative light.

Do you have an example of a post that was X-posted to T_D and overwhelmingly brigaded to the point that people that never post here are voted to the top and regular users are downvoted to oblivion? I would be really interested in seeing this.

He doesn't because it doesn't happen. We have been here long enough to know that its not comparable.

Is that really what happened here? Can you point to some users in the post used as an example that have never posted here before but are very upvoted?

OP provided the post in question. Just start checking user histories from the top down.

So you cannot point to any. Okay.

It has been pointed out. Look at the provided link.

Nowhere has a specific poster who has no history in conspiracy but is broadly upvoted been pointed out, never mind multiple. If you are able to point me to it, that's great, but if you're unwilling or unable to do the work and find one, then don't downvote me when I call you out on it.

I did the work. In fact I researched the post until 3am this morning. What I am not willing to do is hold your hand and do your work other than give you some guidance and show you where to look, nor am I willing to call out individual users.

If you "did the work" and found something worth noting, then surely you'd be after sharing that information by now. Instead, you're pussyfooting around it.

OP summed up exactly what I found.

So.... nowhere does OP mention any users who have only posted in /r/politics and come to this sub only to "brigade" that thread.

So, presumably, you didn't find any, per your own comment that the OP sums up exactly what you found.

So.... maybe don't claim that's what's happening?

Interesting to note that you're okay with "doing the work" to try to prove the claim about T_D wrong but don't want to back up your own work to try to prove the initial point you claimed.

Don't go look through the histories, then. I can't force you.

Don't worry, someone else did and proved you wrong.

It's because it's not true.

Nowhere has a specific poster who has no history in conspiracy but is broadly upvoted been pointed out, never mind multiple.

How Hard did you look?! there’s one right in this thread.. Check out their top comment as well. Ridiculous.

What are you talking about? I just went back five pages worth of comments of that user and they've never posted in Politics but have posted in conspiracy more than once.

Just because people use their Reddit accounts to post on subs that are related to things other than conspiracies, doesn't mean they're brigading when they regularly post here.

Less the fact they’re posting on r/politics and more so their complete absence in r/conspiracy- aside from a recent post mocking & debunking conspiracies. “Coincidental”

That coupled with the abnormal patterns observed on their comments, and their penchant for speaking in the collective -“I’m sure this sub agrees” - “let me get this straight you want everybody in this sub” “Invoke authority” and I dare say a hint of “malignant pseudoidentification” I haven’t studied the comment history of the cheerleaders at the top of the thread to see if they correlate with Mr SpeaksforTheSubButNeverPostsHereAsideFromToDiscredit... but I’d wager some Bitcoin (a very small amount) that they do. The fact they felt this post worthy of such heavy handed manipulation is testament to the truth in OPs statement I guess.

Okay well your claims are wrong right off the bat because they don't post in /r/politics and they do post in /r/conspiracy, so......

You’ve seized on the one admittedly spurious aspect of my comment and ignored the easily verifiable evidence I’ve provided to corroborate it. Why I wonder ..? I specifically said they post in r/conspiracy to discredit conspiracies and linked this with known traits of those whod manipulate forums like this . With that being said, can you see how such behaviour appears suspicious?

Not hit and run, sorry I'm not here literally every moment.

Our entire conversation was about whether people who posted regularly on /r/politics and did not post on /r/conspiracy had come over and brigaded the sub. You pointed to a poster that had exactly zero of those qualities - they don't post on /r/politics and they do post on /r/conspiracy, you just don't like what they choose to post about.

This is called moving the goalposts. There's no point in continuing a conversation with you when clearly you are unable to follow on a conversational string and want to change it to whatever you mean/want it to be at that current moment.

Ignoring my points again. You make it obvious you know I’m right. Shall we continue? Your go.

LOL okay buddy. Have a good night.

The top comments in that thread are by:

u/busfight (3 year account), majority of posts in r/conspiracy, r/the_donald, r/europe

u/randomdood81 (4 month account) majority of posts in r/consiracy

u/April_Fabb (7 year account) majority of posts in r/worldnews, r/videos, r/pics, r/askreddit, r/politics

u/Jaybonaut (7 year account) majority of posts in r/planetside, r/gaming, r/overwatch, r/conspiracy

But... I thought you said the top posts were all brand new accounts by r/politics drones who never post here?

I haven't looked since 3 am mountain time. I'm sure it has gotten more attention from this sub since then since it has been pointed out.

Just hours ago here you stated that if you go through the top comments in that thread were posted by people that have never posted here before, so which is it?

I clearly stated I researched the thread until 3 am. I can't keep the thread from changing, can I?

So I guess you'll edit the post I linked since it's completely misleading?

OP provided the post in question. Just start checking user histories from the top down.

What should I edit here?

The parent comment provides the context. Are you still claiming that if you "check the user histories from the top down" that they are from people who have never posted on this sub?

So let me get this straight, just so I and everyone here fully understands.

Trump supporters flock to /r/conspiracy during the election and basically turn it into a subreddit for alt right conspiracy theories about Clinton and the DNC. The vast majority of posts about Trump's misdeeds or Russian interference are downvoted and sent to the controversial queue. Then, if a post that shows Trump in a critical light somehow manages to escape the controversial queue, we get accusations of vote manipulation? What makes it even funnier is that the accusation comes from the same guy who has cross-posted stuff from The Donald before.

Lmao.

I'm just asking you if you have evidence of a post that is brigaded by t_d. I would be really interested in studying it.

How did a Fox News interview get so many upvotes on /r/conspiracy?

Page not found :/

It's a link to the page that shows duplicates. This post was submitted to /r/conspiracy after it was submitted to /r/the_donald - and it was submitted by somebody whose last post was in /r/the_donald

I only went down about a dozen user histories, but they all seem to be regular contributors of conspiracy.

As I said, this place is basically a 2nd home to Trump supporters. They flocked here during the elections and there's a huge overlap now.

It is also a second home to many that post in r/politics. There should be no problem with that.

What the OP is about is Astroturfing.

They must be the shittiest brigaders ever then. Look at your comment score and look at the person replying. How can this example be seen again and again. Do you think we're utter fucking morons?

Damn Russians can't get anything right.

The voting patterns on your comments are testament to OPs theory. The only time you’ve ever actually written a post here is to discredit conspiracies. You must realise how suspicious you appear? Why not go with a less obvious tactic? Chill with the vote bots, contribute more benign, inoffensive material from time to time.. you’ll be kosher ;)

How is a comment this basic receiving so many upvotes? I mean come on. This shit is so obvious it’s funny.

Well you did t get the first part right. Trump supporters did not flood this sub during the election and turn it into a subreddit of “alt right conspiracies”

Oh they absolutely did

How did I miss that? The election was a great time for this sub

You would think that. The election was the beginning of the downfall of this sub

Yupp. That’s when the shills started brigading

we get accusations of vote manipulation?

"We". Who's "we"? And how is it if "we" is not "us" that you have so many up votes?

Thanks for the down vote…and for outing yourself.

This x1000

The biggest conspiracy in recent memory is unfolding in front of us and this sub does everything it can to bury.

The fact that they're complaining about shilling is fucking laughable

It’s not much of a conspiracy when it’s being pushed by the establishment, and it’s all over mainstream media and reddit.

There’s plenty of subs to discuss that sort of propaganda if you wish.

A conspiracy is no more or less a conspiracy because it is covered by the media. You can say the media’s coverage is it’s own conspiracy, but that doesn’t invalidate the conspiracy they are discussing.

I wholeheartedly disagree

I just don’t understand the logic. It seems like a gatekeeping tactic.

Gatekeeping is deciding what can and cannot be discussed. How is it gatekeeping when it is being discussed everywhere else?

Because you’re not allowing (theoretically) it to be discussed here. I’d rather discuss things with the critical thinkers in this sub rather than in politics or news, are you not attempting to gatekeeper that from happening? You don’t have to engage in the thread. If I see a thread in movies about a Disney movie I don’t ask them to take that to the Disney subreddit because it’s a place to discuss movies of all kinds, big and small.

Hmm kind of crazy how subs become that way. Shame r/politics doesn’t let pro-trump posts get anywhere, or r/td doesn’t allow pro-Clinton posts. Here, if cnn, the CIA, the FBI, our most untrusted politicians, and main stream sources are all pushing a single uniform story (one with unverifiable details and unlimited “just trust mes” or “unnamed officials claim”) that’s probably a story we would be highly skeptical of.

There’s no honest discussion about it here anymore, everyone made up their mind a while ago. It’s a totally political debate at this point, and it just incites non-stop brigading from both sides defending their side in the battleground here. It’s just so stale. You really think the Russians “hacked” the elections? How? They spent a couple million on Facebook ads? Bots won the election? Bottom line is that if CNN and the traditional newsmakers like politicians are pushing a story like Russian collusion so hard, the conspiracy is: why are they doing that?

It’s not worth the trouble anymore, and I say that as a non-trump supporter, who thinks he’s a douchey clown face who lies and talks out of his ass without understanding half of the policies he represents.

Also, the fact that I have to make that fuckin disclaimer every time is another reason why the discussion is no longer wanted.

We agree then. The problem I see is that the same co conversations that are happening big in r/politics are now happening in this sub, oftentimes with the same users. How do we change that?

You don’t. Everyone deserves to have a voice, whether you agree with them or not. If they were drawn to this sub by the ‘Russia Conspiracy’ and you disagree explain your point of view.

So you dont want to discuss things with critical thinkers rather than in politics or news?

If they were drawn to this sub by the ‘Russia Conspiracy’ and you disagree explain your point of view.

You can understand how difficult that is with all the astroturfing/shilling thats currently happening in this sub. All the critical thinkers are getting drowned out in favor of the politics or news narratives. That's why I'm bringing it up.

What is a ‘politics’ or ‘news’ narrative to you?

Huh? I was using your words.

I’m asking you to define what a ‘politics narrative’ is or a ‘news narrative’. I didn’t use those phrases. Is Russian Influence a ‘news narrative’? Seems like you are using the word ‘narrative’ to dismiss conspiracies you don’t believe in, so I’m asking you to define those terms.

You said:

I’d rather discuss things with the critical thinkers in this sub rather than in politics or news

And I said I agree. The same convos in politics and news are starting to take place here often with the same users. How can we change this so that it becomes a discussion with critical thinkers, as you put it?

Also, this thread is being brigaded. How are you able to benefit from the vote manipulation?

We can discuss conspiracy topics that appear in the news and relate to politics, and I’d rather discuss them here than at those subs. Even if both subs are talking about Russian conspiracies that doesn’t make the topic a ‘political’ or ‘news’ narrative. So I’d rather discuss that topic with the members of this sub. Just because it is discussed there doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be discussed here and it doesn’t make it a ‘political narrative’ either.

Not sure how I’m benefiting from brigading though. Especially with my controversial opinion that we shouldn’t stifle discussion here.

I dont think anyone is arguing that we should stifle discussion. In fact, I'm arguing quite the opposite.

r/news and r/politics are subs known to be astroturfed, and were seeing the same thing happening to this sub. Like you, I'm interested in critical discussions that are stifled by shilling

Except you are literally saying I can’t discuss topics, like Russian collusion, that can be discussed in the politics and news subreddits. This conversation didn’t start with you complaining about shills, it started with you saying discuss that somewhere else.

Wait, I thought you were interested in having critical discussions? You keep changing your mind!

Well I tried, if you’re going to go back to trolling I’m done here. In case you’re legitimately confused, and I don’t know why I would give you the benefit of the doubt since we’ve done this little song and dance before, I am willing to allow people who are interested in conspiracies here (even if they were brought in by wondering if the Trump campaign conspired with Russia, or Russia conspired to meddle in US politics) to discuss those conspiracies here. I realize by allowing new people from subs like news or politics we will have some less than critical thinkers invading this sub. I have zero problem with that. We all started somewhere and there are plenty of people here who will open their eyes to things like Operation Mockingbird and Gulf of Tonkin. As long as they are not organizing brigades, using multiple accounts, or acting in otherwise bad faith I am fine. Does that mean not everyone here is as much of a critical thinker as you or I, sure, does that make this place the echo chamber politics is, no. That is why I will both welcome new members acting in good faith and also still prefer the critical discussion found here rather than in the other subs.

Yes, we agree. So what do we do about the politics-like brigades that are jeopardizing this sub and stifling free speech? r/politics used to be a much different place before it was astroturfed to death.

What’s the point of politics users flooding this sub and having the same convos here that they could be having in r/politics. Probably with the goal of stifling free speech, which you said you were against. So what do we do?

If the conversation is about conspiracies we don’t do shit other than welcome them. Having the same conversation we could be having in a different sub is not brigading. Brigading is already against the rules and I don’t know enough about how to monitor that to suggest a solution other than banning those that are caught doing it. You keep intentionally conflating the two things (people discussing the Russia Conspiracy and malicious users), intentionally trying to group people that come here to discuss Russian Meddling with people that are trying to stifle free speech (another new spin, and I don’t really get this one, downvotes are stifling your free speech? These users certainly aren’t deleting comments. Forum sliding? Again not free speech, but it is a pain I’ll grant you that). You’ve tried to spin it a couple different ways, but it comes down to you don’t want that topic discussed here.

Not everyone deserves an equal voice. If you are being paid to post that opinion and are abusing multiple accounts to amplify your opinion you deserve to lose that courtesy.

I’d love to see proof of anyone paid to post here. That would be a great conspiracy and one that should be explored. And yet we end up with “you’re a paid shill cause you disagree with me” without any exposition or exploration of that claim.

Now is where you insert blueshare, yet without and proof. Honestly I’d love to be paid to post on a random ass subreddit, can I make 100k a year doing it? Sign me the fuck up!! But alas it’s a convenient excuse to discount any opposing viewpoint

Yes, shareblue, CTR and other political organizations are great examples because they have public disclosure requirements and have a stated purpose to do exactly what you think doesn't exist. Dark money and think tank orgs obviously do the same thing but don't have to disclose in most cases.

Thing is, that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is an entire reputation management industry that does the same damn thing.

If you are being real and want proof, google 'correct the record barrier breakers'. That is just one example of one of these companies explaining what they do. Then google the funding behind it.

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. Of course it does. I’m asking what your proof is of it happening on THIS sub, or is this a simple matter of “this exists so it’s happening here”?

To expand: I know that fuck over in NK is starving his people, clearly it’s happening. Yet I’ve gained 15lbs in the last year cause fast food is cheap and affordable to me, should I automatically assume that fuck is starving me because it’s happening somewhere? No, id need proof he’s doing it to me. So I’ll ask simply and plainly:

Can you show me proof that it’s happening HERE on THIS sub? Or do you simply think that because some of your ideas aren’t as popular as you thought they’d be?

You are changing the goalposts, I gave you the proof.

Obviously you would need access to the incoming IP addresses of the posters to do what you are now asking for.

Are you trying to say that this big well paid industry is somehow leaving just this sub alone? Why the hell would they do that?

I didn’t view that as proof my apologies if you found it to be so. I was not intending to shift the posts at all. Not suggesting it has not happened here, I just view it as an easy cop out that is used far to often.

So thanks for the link and we’ll go out separate ways at this point. I’ll knly leave you with: again I think it’s an easy cop out for opposing viewpoints, I feel it is used far to often.

Tip of my cap to you sir

Agreed. I would argue those wouldn’t even be equal voices since they are falsely amplifying their voice.

Like what you just said 3 post up?

There’s plenty of subs to discuss that sort of propaganda if you wish.

How is it gatekeeping if it’s discussed everywhere else? I tho k you’re misunderstanding the term

Because we’re talking about here and not everywhere else?

Gatekeeping is when it’s not discussed anywhere

I realize english probably isnt your first language, so you probably arent familiar with phrases like that. Urbandictionary.com will probably help you.

Nah I’m a trading psychologist

Are you upset about the Seth Rich and Uranium One conspiracies being posted here, since they are "mainstream" fox news conspiracies?

That’s a very strange way to characterize those stories

Then you have absolutely zero idea what you are talking about

New to the idea of propaganda?

Not even remotely

Here’s a good place to start

https://youtu.be/34LGPIXvU5M

There is an important distinction. When a conspiracy theory is being pushed by the mainstream media, the natural reaction in conspiracy communities is to try to understand what is their underlying motivation. What we are resisting here is the huge influx of users who want to do nothing other than take the mainstream media at face value rather than doing a deeper analysis of the underlying conspiracy of mainstream propaganda and media manipulation.

We can have both, we can look at the motives of the media and still believe this administration is astoundingly corrupt and members of the campaign probably reached out to Russian assets for help. The problem I see is the distrust of the MSM, earned no doubt, is being used to defend, sometimes inadvertently, sometimes not, a corrupt administration.

You say that, but the reality that I see every day is a massively disproportionate fraction of users who care about nothing more than a face value analysis and discussion of mainstream news topics. There is a compelling alternative narrative in which Donald Trump is vindicated as a shocking disruption to the mainstream propaganda control system and is being attacked and even framed by a war mongering Deep State. The very idea is met with nothing but criticism and derision by a large number of users. Only the mainstream narrative is considered a suitable topic for discussion for these people.

I strongly disagree with your compelling narrative, Trump has no real policy positions of his own and no intellectual curiosity that I’ve seen to learn anything. He has filled his cabinet with bankers and is about to appoint part of the deep state to Secretary of State.

I don’t think anything I said was derisive, but I know others don’t always act that way here and that’s unfortunate. While it doesn’t excuse their behavior I can see why some laugh at the idea Trump being on the side of the people.

That said aren’t we here to criticize others ideas? If I said Obama was a great president with no major scandals I would expect the criticism that would follow. Trump is simply subject to the same here. And given his track record I don’t see how he has earned anymore trust, but I’m still waiting on his tax returns. (Ok that might have been derisive)

It doesn’t invalidate the conspiracy but anybody who has looked into conspiracy topics for a significant period of time has seen the mainstream media ignore and ridicule most subjects that have been submitted here. The perceived lack of enthusiasm for the Trump/Russia conspiracy is most likely the result of extreme scepticism regarding the truthfulness of the MSM. That definitely doesn’t mean it should be ignored because the messengers are suspect, but the fact that the MSM are discussing it means that it’s already reached popular culture already so there’s less incentive to discuss here.

Less incentive for you maybe, I’m fascinated by how blatant and corrupt this administration has been especially in the meager efforts to cover up any and all interactions with Russia. Even more fascinating is the lack of enthusiasm this community has for it. Not to bring it to the obvious partisan conclusion, but I find it hard to believe that would’ve been the reaction of this sub if it was Obama who stood accused and not Trump. Hell FOX covers Hillary every day and no one is complaining her conspiracies are too mainstream (the may complain about the focus on her since she’s not In Power, but that’s a pretty big distinction).

I don’t have much incentive to discuss it at all as I’m not from the US. I do wonder why the MSM is so willing to cover this conspiracy but ignore or ridicule others that appear to have similar evidence that the official story isnt accurate

I’d love to believe the media has turned over a new leaf but it seems doubtful. I think people here would’ve wanted to see Obama investigated, I’m also sure they would’ve wanted to see Bush investigated. Conspiracy forums before the last US election always knew that both sides were equally guilty of pushing policies of the money power and were corrupt on both sides. Both sides being equally likely to sell out the public was a commonly accepted and non-controversial viewpoint in years gone by. I don’t think it’s always the case people here are just so against the Democrats, more like the constant Trump bashing from almost all news sources is novel and lends some credibility to the idea of him as the establishment outsider who they want to remove from power.

Would either Bush or Obama have had almost the entire mainstream media against them though? From an outsiders perspective it seems the only news network to offer Trump some support is Fox. Trump doesn’t appear to have any support from mainstream newspapers, magazines or online publications either. Most of his support seems to come from bloggers and via grassroots forums. Bush still had more support than Trump in the media even after being shown as knowingly lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction. Obama was obviously a much better public speaker so I can see why the press took it easier on him, Bush was awful though so the fact that Trump has less support seems odd.

Trump’s own rhetoric has caused 95% of his problems. While some of the things he’s been bashed for have been taken out of context, even in context he has said some reprehensible things. While Bush was a bumbling mumble mouth war criminal his rhetoric was nothing like Trump. Whether fairly or not that is a big part of what people expect in the US presidency. Not only that Trump has been openly antagonistic against the media from the beginning.

As for why the media covers this conspiracy, it’s just like the Ken Starr investigation during the Clinton administration. That was all over the news as well. A special counselor investigation is a news worthy event. Plus the Trump administration literally cannot get its story straight from minute to minute. Other administrations have been much better about not contradicting themselves in their messaging, so this one stands out by virtue of its incompetence on a basic messaging level. Through in Trumps tweets and it’s not surprising there is an unprecedented level of coverage about the flaws of this administration. They make it easy.

You dont even know what conspiracy means!!

con·spir·a·cy kənˈspirəsē/Submit noun a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

Trump and friends are definitely part of a conspiracy and if its on the news or not does not change that fact.

Holy shit what kind of idiots do we have in this place??!

Why are you name-calling?

Rule 10

The biggest conspiracy in recent memory is unfolding in front of us and this sub does everything it can to bury.

An argument against that is that people might think the other subs, like /r/news, /r/politics, or /r/worldnews are better places for that kind of stuff because of how much it's being pushed. They see it everywhere else and don't want this sub flooded with it, so they push back against it because they want to discuss lesser known conspiracies.

"This is a forum for free thinking and discussing issues which have captured the public’s imagination."

I don't disagree. I just provided another perspective.

Roger that. I'm just providing some additional context.

Actually it seems like you were being facetious

Quoted verbatim from the sidebar.

I think one of the reasons for that might be that you can find plenty of Trump hatred in other subs - for example r/politics.

It might still be conspiracies, but the mainstream media is all over it. Personally I'm mostly interested in stuff that challenges the prevailing narrative.

Personally I'm mostly interested in stuff that challenges the prevailing narrative.

I agree, but who's narrative are we talking about? There's one version being pushed by the White House and sympathetic media, while another is being pushed by different forces in the media and others. If this isn't a place to question the media and also question the government, then what purpose does it serve?

FYI, the top comment here is bullshit. This sub has always had posts negative of Trump, negative of the intelligence agencies, and negative of the media. There are a lot of people on this sub who want you to think that it's completely one-sided, and that's absolute horseshit.

Exhibit A: The comment claiming that anti-Trump content gets buried is at +64 upvotes. How can that be possible if this sub is "The_Donald 2.0" or whatever bullshit version of the claim you see?

In most threads, the people getting upvoted in the comments are the ones speaking out against trump. They usually respond by claiming it's because the thread made it to /r/all, but we see anti Trump comments at the top of threads that aren't even the top post in this sub. Notice you never see anyone claim "this sub is a T_D circlejerk" in any of the anti-Trump threads. They just pretend these threads don't exist and continue with the anti-/r/conspiracy propaganda, which is usually heavily upvoted in here for some reason. A lot of people in here hate this sub.

Here are a few examples of anti-Trump submissions, of which there are many more if anyone decides to take a look:

Pay close attention to the upvote percentages.

"Drain that Swamp: Trump's Interior Chief's Hometown Friends Receive $300 Million Contract to Restore PR Power Lines - Company Only Has 2 Employees" 5,340 points, 86 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/78ffzd/drain_that_swamp_trumps_interior_chiefs_hometown/

"In 2004 Donald Trump accepted $160 million from George Soros" 3,754 points, 80 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6xjask/in_2004_donald_trump_accepted_160_million_from/

Anti Jeff Sessions post, 26,000 points, 79 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6awhsy/im_fucking_tired_of_the_fucking_war_on_drugs_jeff/

"WikiLeaks document showing that saudi arabia funded ISIS. How can trump supporters just stand by and let donald trump sign a 100 billion dollar arms deal with a country that is funding terrorism?" 3,900 points, 90 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6f4uu1/wikileaks_document_showing_that_saudi_arabia/

"Trump suggests that we execute drug dealers to deal with our opiod epidemic. Do NOT fall for this shit. This policy would lead to low level offenders getting executed while the pharmaceutical execs who peddle pills by the millions into poor communities would continue getting rich." 11,800 points, 83 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/81f4bg/trump_suggests_that_we_execute_drug_dealers_to/

"FYI the man Trump is considering for National Security Adviser (John R. Bolton) was sworn into this position on May 11, 2001 and is the central part of the 'WMDs in Iraq' claims Bush made. This man is evil." 8,150 points, 86 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/84s191/fyi_the_man_trump_is_considering_for_national/

"Leaked emails show WikiLeaks and Trump Jr. Conversing about possible deals between them" 9,000 points, 77 percent upvoted, with gold: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7cqh4t/leaked_emails_show_wikileaks_and_trump_jr/

"Michael Flynn resigns: Trump's national security adviser quits over Russia links" 3,800 points, 84 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5txzbc/michael_flynn_resigns_trumps_national_security/

2,500 points, 85 percent upvoted: "House Republicans with support form Trump passes sweeping legislation to roll back banking rules on globalist bankers who caused the great recession" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6g7jcf/house_republicans_with_support_form_trump_passes/

"Behind Fox News' Baseless Seth Rich Story: The Untold Tale" 2,300 points, 72 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6qvylt/behind_fox_news_baseless_seth_rich_story_the/

6,300 points, 84 percent upvoted, gilded: "Dear The_Donald: Why you censoring weed posts?" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5w1ygs/dear_the_donald_why_you_censoring_weed_posts/

"Donald Trump's Muslim ban excludes the countries linked to his business empire - AND the countries of origin of the 9/11 terrorists. And not a WORD of this on /r/conspiracy?" 1,500 points, 82 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5qpbjv/donald_trumps_muslim_ban_excludes_the_countries/

"Donald Trump has added his FIFTH Goldman Sachs crony to his staff" 1,400 points, 87 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ntxkf/donald_trump_has_added_his_fifth_goldman_sachs/

"Donald Trump supposedly told House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) he supports cutting Social Security but will not admit it publicly because it would hurt his election chances. He openly says he will lie to the people about it because he knows that the people are against it." 1,250 points, 75 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4lk9xd/donald_trump_supposedly_told_house_speaker_paul/

"Dear T_D readers, Please read this post. I am ready for your downvotes. If you are a trump supporter who also visits this sub, here is a message for you. The_Donald is one of the most heavily censored subs on reddit. Try posting anything that questions the supremacy of Donald Trump. Your post will get removed and you will be banned." 1,200 points, 84 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6chgbe/dear_t_d_readers_please_read_this_post_i_am_ready/

Another one at 2,800, 94 percent upvoted, article about Trump/republican tax plans: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/72k3fe/a_handful_of_ultrarich_dynastic_families_are/

"Trump told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns" 640 points https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6ol9av/trump_told_aides_he_was_especially_disturbed/

"Leaked emails show WikiLeaks and Trump Jr. Conversing about possible deals between them" 9000 points with gold, 77 percent upvoted. https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7cqh4t/leaked_emails_show_wikileaks_and_trump_jr/

There are also a lot of posts that say "Fuck both sides." Examples:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5xt35u/its_really_time_to_wake_the_fuck_up_hillary/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6t8bkd/fuck_the_us_government_for_a_million_reasons_fuck/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/54ccuo/suggestion_stop_upvoting_trump_vs_clinton_stuff/

How many of those highly upvoted posts hit a decent spot on /r/all? Those should be considered outliers as showing up there brings in a lot of the average Reddit crowd and not those specifically looking for subs like this one.

How did they get to /r/all in the first place? This sub's core userbase upvoted them. Like I already mentioned, anti-Trump comments do really well in here, and you would know this if you spent any decent amount of time in this sub. Even just looking at this thread would show you that. There are many more posts just like the ones I cited above. Some are at 5 upvotes, 25, 100, etc. Those are just the biggest examples spanning over a year that i decided to use for my comment.

Plain and simple, you were fooled by others who claimed this sub is "The_Donald 2.0" or whatever.

Yeah the recent history of this sub definitely seem to lean towards pro-Trump, pro-Russia propaganda.

Please do not confuse anti establishment with pro-Trump.

I can realize the lies and propaganda surrounding Russia and also be against Trump.

Please do not confuse anti establishment with pro-Trump.

To the shills one is as bad as the other.

Do you think calling users shills helps?

Do you think calling a turd a rose makes it smell better?

What I don't understand is how people are constantly getting away with calling others shills. Is that not explicitly against the rules?

Dislike Trump & I am pro-Russia.

This is false. This post was stickied for a week shortly after the election, in the height of Trump mania. The mods decision to sticky it and the fallacy riddled rebuttals suggest the sub you’re depicting may not actually exist.

That’s not my experience. Trump is terrible but we also shouldnt be blind to the effect Shareblue shills have had on this sub and reddit in general

I’d be really interested in seeing a cross-post to The Donald that’s been brigaded.

Odd, isn't it?

It’s almost as if clutches pearls they were lying.

Check out the voting patterns on Mr Speaksforthesub’s comments..

Could it be more obvious?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/749k2q/this_is_not_a_partisan_issue_300000000_americans/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/75ty90/dan_schneider_is_a_major_niceklodian_producer_and/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/68mynv/mass_media_are_keeping_a_lid_on_this_the_dnc_is/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/7zm83w/school_shooting_survivor_colton_haab_confirms/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/7aata4/donna_brazile_says_the_dnc_did_rig_the_election/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/7p75ug/teacher_arrested_for_asking_why_the/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/6a8k3o/president_trump_fires_fbi_director_comey/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/7by0qz/president_donald_trump_thinks_scientology_should/

Here's some interesting posts from around the time of the election...

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5bf6wp/in_2009_dyncorp_employees_hired_a_15yearold_boy/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5bgu7k/wikileaks_in_10_years_produced_10_million/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5b3i2j/i_think_obama_spent_about_65000_of_the_taxpayers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5b49uq/wikileaks_john_podesta_invited_to_spirit_dinner/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5b5lf1/billionaire_sex_offender_epstein_once_claimed_he/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/duplicates/5aby9p/did_the_nypd_just_save_the_country_the_nypd_was/

Do we notice a certain theme?

They are all "page not found"?

Not only are your links dead, they’re not cross-post links to Conspiracy from T_D.

Do you have anything at all?

Still got them, upvotes though.

All of those links are functional, and 100% of them are were also posted to t_d which is why I selected them.

Of course the top comment is a whataboutism deflection to take the heat off of /r/politics and their 50+ spam subs

Also notice how this is false since every post about Hillary/Obama/CNN/Antifa/Shareblue etc always have to comments deflecting and calling this sub T_D 2.0

Do you just assume your perspective is the majority all of the time? Maybe the issue is that there’s more people that disagree with you than agree with you. Maybe a lot of people think your perspective makes no sense and contradicts the facts and that you’re being disingenuous?

Why do you assume that your opinion is the majority?

Because if your think r/politics is legit you're kinda of a fuckin' cuck and that's the only opinion he gave at all, really? How do you disagree with that opinion? How does that even begin to contradict the facts?

Here's the thing.. Trump is incredibly unpopular. His approval among the 18-29 demographic is 20-24%...

That's the demographic that makes up the majority of reddit users. Is it any surprise that the content of the major subreddits would reflect their dislike of the president?

You may have misread something at some point. I can't disagree with that but it doesn't disagree with what I said or what he said so I don't get your point.

Well it appears maybe you were the one that understood my point. Cucks? Please get a grip.

Isn't it such a good word? It never fails to bait people.

I don’t even understand your point. What is your obsession with ‘cuck’? Bizarre

Why do you assume that your opinion is the majority?

So you admit this sub has a majority of democrat harsliners. What happened to the Don 2.0 narrative?

I don’t assume my opinions are ever the majority so I don’t really get what your point is. I’m not whining about downvotes or upvotes or anything: if your shit is down voted, maybe your statement is unpopular. That’s literally my point. What are you getting all uppity about? 😂

Have you not been paying attention to the post/thread?

If this sub is don 2.0, then comments that are pro-trump should get upvoted and comments that are anti-gop should get downvoted. Simple.

It isn't like that, though. So the don 2.0 shit is a LARP.

So you're saying anybody who disagrees with you is a 'Democrat hardliner'

Hardliner is the wrong word. Hyperpartisan is better

Why exactly do you think that?

What else would you call people who choose to downvote on party line but avoid actual discussion about issues/events?

So you're not going to answer the question then?

I did answer the question. Partisans are people who vote along party lines but won't actually engage in discussion which puts their "side" in a bad light. That describes probably about 75-90% of the interactions I have in this subreddit. It's reasonable for me to say that the vast majority of people on this sub are partisans.

You didn't answer the question. I never asked you to give your definition of partisan. It's hilarious you would call me a Democrat, I get called the opposite all the time on pretty much every other sub I peruse. The fact that you would give me that label though, implies to me you're the partisan one

And this sub definitely skews conservative, regardless of whether or not a lot of people are FINALLY catching on to how establishment Trump is

Just for clarification, if this subbis don 2.0, why would I get upvoted for saying Trump is a schemer who's been corrupt for decades... but get downvoted for speaking ill of Clinton?

How does that work with your don 2.0 larp? I'm trying to understand the logic, there.

The controversial section on /r/conspiracy is a graveyard for anything that portrays Trump in a negative light.

This is a perfect example of what the OP is talking about. This comment is a blatant lie, but it gets heavily upvoted anyway because it is "anti-Trump".

The pattern is that "anti-Trump" users claim persecution, and claim that anti-Trump posts are buried, while at the same time, before our very eyes, they are scoring higher than "pro-Trump" users. Just look at the controversial section of conspiracy for yourself.

Do those controversial (heavily downvoted) posts look like they portray Trump in a negative light?

#1 post title: I don't understand this at all, how are people so caught up in trump derangement syndrome? I genuinely think the media is manipulating them.

#2 post title: For some reason, this sub has been targeted very recently with users who constantly push a typical liberal agenda. Here's the proof.

#3 post title: Shills downvoted this last time - BUT Assange just tweeted out my video so you lose shills!

** #4 post title:** New evidence has left Theresa May’s Russian spy story in tatters

At #5 we get to the first controversial post that could be considered anti-Trump:

#5 post title: All the theories Russia is pushing to claim they weren't behind the nerve agent attack on a former spy in the UK

6 is a fairly non-political post about the CDC. #7 is pro-Trump again with Kim Dotcom. #8 is a pro-Trump post about former CIA director "losing his shit" about McCabe firing. #9 is a post about Russia/Trump on the anti side. #10 is non-political.

So, in the top 10 most controversial conspiracy posts right now you have only 2 anti-Trump posts, with only 1 in the top 5. And you have 6 anti-Trump posts in the top 10 - that's more than half BTW.

They want us to disbelieve our own eyes, and disregard all evidence that their persecution narrative is completely false.

I downvote anything that portrays trump in a positive light. I've been coming to this sub for 6 years. I'm not a shill. I saw how this sub changed during the election, suddenly everyone here loved trump when before people were anti- elites. I'm doing my part to bring it back to how it was and should be

Agreed, I find it odd too that fewer people seem to say that both sides are corrupt. Unfortunately it’s not just Trump supporters here now there are clearly newer users here who think that it’s left vs right.

I kind of feel that people were combed into thinkkng Trump is antiestablishment, but the almost unanimous criticism of him from the mainstream media does lend credibility to that idea.

There was supposedly a line said by Ghandi that people can only watch someone being beaten for so long before they start to wonder if they really deserve it. I really do think that’s the only thing giving Trump some credibility on conspiracy forums as his policies and picks for positions seems to be a case of meet the new boss same as the old boss.

At least you're honest about what we can all obviously see is happening here. Now if only all of the other downers were as honest and stopped trying to hide behind a persecution complex.

Yea trump is a POS so anyone capable of rational thinking doesn't support him. As establishment as they come

Yea trump is a POS so anyone capable of rational thinking doesn't support him.

An obvious lie, but we'll move on.

So how do you feel about instinctively defending unelected government officials in the FBI and elsewhere? Even when the FBI's own ethics department (OPR) recommended that McCabe should be fired... what did your instinct tell you? It told you to defend this corrupt government official... "because Trump", right?

You're not a rebel, and you're certainly not a rational thinker when you've admitted you will "downvote anything that portrays trump in a positive light" - that's just not rational. That's being stubborn. You're just defending a different kind of establishment here, a kind that is unelected and is only now just starting to be exposed for what it is. And there's more to come.

I don't support the FBI or Trump, all corrupt. Whether they truly hate each other or whether it's all just a farce none of them are my friends

So maybe you should take things on a case by case basis then, before letting your "downer" instinct take over any time you see something that's not anti-Trump. That's what a rational person would do, since you brought it up.

People don't change and he's shown his true colors, he's not gonna suddenly turn his back in his money and befriend us, that's straight delusional

Who's talking about friendship here? He's the president, not your friend, not your role model.

Exactly my point

It's TMoR. Their mothers' basements are littered with darts badly thrown at the crayon-scrawled names of r/con mods.

that sub is the epitome of butthurt

That sub is a facility that turns human excrement into fake diamonds and then throws parties to celebrate how amazing their turd jewelry is.

they also continually break their own commandments. bearing false witness and taking the Lord's name in vain.

It's a cheerleading group/circle jerk for narcissists who have nothing else. If it wasn't so obnoxious, I'd be content to just let it be the tragic sideshow it is.

Haha, all comments in this comment chain ^ have the dagger.

If you don't know about the dagger, time to activate it in your settings; it will appear next to comments that are "upvoted and downvoted by a large amount of people".

Good. Everday the shills tell me whats on the agenda and whats not on the agenda, pretty damn easy to find the truth after shills do the work of seperating the chaff from the wheat.

Hahaha.

It is at the point where I only enter the sub under the new Tab, and I really have no idea regarding voting, it isn't until later, 45 minutes or so, in the life of a post that the shit gets to the level where I can smell it.

I just dropped in on Top and it is not what I expected. Since I am on New anyway I don't care, but it definitely wouldn't bother me to have 24 hour delay in vote recording. I read what I want, and really don't care what the vote totals are. - 15 is ridiculous for that post.

On a sort of every cloud has a silver lining point it is good to know that this sub is enough of a threat to people that they do this shit.

And then these brigaders and shills downvote your post pointing it out.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most welcome.

Contest mode. The shills hate it, so its definitely a good thing in threads that are getting an obvious brigade. Every single one of them should immediately be put into contest mode imo.

I replied and had a conversation with teh person who wrote one of hte comments you use as an example, the -15 one that says:

Fox has always been terrible, but that doesn't mean we can excuse other outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and ABC from criticism. I personally can't stand to watch any of them.

After just two comments where I explain that people are criticising Fox and not excusing CNN etc the person agreed with me. If the person writing the comment realizes they were not correct in their original comment, why is it surprising that the comment's sentiments are unpopular and downvoted? How is that not organic?

Remove the Vote Counters!

We cannot have discussions or thoughtful debates if they think they're rewarded by silly votes.

Yes I agree with this.this would also greatly decrease the overall amount of trolls.

It only needs to be enacted a few times a week, at random, imho.

If we're all here to have discussions of things that are serious or intriguing then we can do so in an orderly considerate manner. We can learn and share without fake Internet points, right? Folks that are only in here to disrupt and harass are obvious but if there's no reward in the game - would they bother?

I've always seen an average online user base of 2-3k at any given time, now it's around double that. It seems to be a combo of politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology, and pro astroturf services. Though I will say I always thought the consistent 2-3k online was suspicious.

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

Shills HATE condense mode! 48 HR contest mode on ALL THREADS.

AP,

Why haven't the mods taken care of some of most obvious shill actors? For the months there will be a handful of users (JB, SJWPL) that employ obvious shill tactics and brigades, yet those same users seem to get a free pass by the mod team... If most the regulars can spot them out, we know the mod team definitely knows what's up..

Start banning these cockfuck shills and things will definitely improve.

They don't ban people for being shills. The shills, I can name a few, play by the rules. If the actual community had any say the interpretation of the rules against attacking the sub would be interpreted to include shilling and am overall attitude of "debunking". We must attack the debunkers.

You can tell a shill some very simple traits.

1. They never give their opinion.

2. They are always contrarian.

3. They demand multiple sources but use spurious ones in their effort to debunk.

4. Shills defend authoritarian control structures and corporate monopolies. A real conspiracy theorist does not.

I do agree that they try and avoid breaking the rules but they can be banned for using vote manipulation. The same group of shills always use vote bots to project their own talking points/ comments and bury anyone who disagrees/calls them out. That is breaking site wide rules not just r/conspiracy rules.

Agreed. But that is much harder to prove than a tactic if identifying their behavior.

yet those same users seem to get a free pass by the mod team...

dude, this account is your fresh alternate account after you're old one (u/ShillsOnAcid) got a 7 day ban last night.

don't you have 30 or more accounts that you use to attack people on this sub?

yes you do: https://i.imgur.com/EYEtvpA.png

I'll just borrow my favorite shill lines from yo Boi u/CHARLESBRINK!

I'll be happy to quote this douchebag:

"it's just pathetic at this point holy shit. LET IT GO"

"honestly, if you can't handle people making fun of you on the Internet, you probably shouldn't be posting on reddit. period. especially considering the fact that every user is anonymous."

How about you take MR. BRINK's advice?

lol how has that user not reported you to the admins yet holy shit you are obsessed

Any attack on MSM = -15 which is absurd for a conspiracy sub. 80% of us know they are full of shit regardless of your political leanings. It just proves how in bed one party is with the media that an attack on the media is equated to an attack on their party.

And little do they realize how much they prove our points just by commenting.

I'm independent, so its not really us and they; we should all be against media consolidation and corruption but if your party is the benefactor then turning a blind eye to it seems convenient.

Or it could be that those of us who have been highly critical of MSM for years or even decades are getting really tired of the Republicans using our legitimate disgust in MSM as a tool to try to corral us into something even worse -- reactionary Republican partisan Fake News media.

That goes both ways and any mention of a political party as part of the argument is nonsensical and ridiculous.

What he's talking about does NOT go both ways. Fox News's advertising slogan is basically "don't trust the mainstream media". CNN and MSNBC don't do that. Fox tries to position itself as Anti-MSM to confuse people who don't like msm spin. Even though fox is simultaneously "the most watched".

This is how all mainstream news media is, and I'm sure that anyone visiting this sub has been well aware of this for a long time.

This is whataboutism. It's meant to defend Fox News and minimize the evidence provided with "well we all knew this anyway."

Fox has always been terrible, but that doesn't mean we can excuse other outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and ABC from criticism. I personally can't stand to watch any of them.

Same thing.

I do. Trying to draw attention away from a post to minimize a conspiracy should always be downvoted.

The conspiracy: Fox News is blindly defending Donald Trump.

A comment along the lines of, "well CNN sucks too!" isn't contributing to the conspiracy. Neither does, "well, I already knew this" nor "I can't stand MSNBC." If a commenter has a CNN related conspiracy, he/she should start a thread. Not brigade a well-cited post on Fox News.

It's not a fucking conspiracy though is it?

Well cited post? It was a Youtube compilation vid of which there are countless for both Fox, CNN and others pointing out bias and hypocrisy. Who doesn't know that Fox is biased towards conservatives and CNN the opposite etc.

The fact that it got so many upvotes just show it's shilled to fuck because not only is it not a conspiracy but any regular/legitimate user of the sub knows it doesn't belong whatsoever.

Video documentation of a MSM outlet's reaction to the same event over two different administrations show vastly different narratives. Why? Of course it's a conspiracy. You may brush it off as "who doesn't know that Fox is biased..." but that's a conspiracy! Pointing out hypocrisy in the media to paint a narrative or prop up a government is a problem. Do you not see that?

You may call conspiracy buffs "shills," but many of them see problems in the world that many choose to ignore.

So much this. A post or comment calling out MSM for not bashing Obama’s drone strike campaigns? Hundreds of upvotes, no claims of vote manipulation. A post showing the MSM doing a complete 180 in coverage reaction based solely on who the current administration is? Hundreds of upvotes, immediately claimed to be inorganic.

Honestly as a casual user I’m just so sick of the victim mentality that has arrived here. It seems the new rules of the sub are: Critical of past administration=organic. Critical of current administration=shilling and bots.

You said this all well - especially the victim mentality that is too pervasive throughout this sub.

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/84837x/stanford_brainiacs_say_they_can_predict_reddit/

The study also noted that ignoring the trolls doesn't always work - conflicts grow worse when users stay within 'echo chambers' on their own threads, and long-term traffic losses were lessened when the 'defending' users directly confronted the forum intruders rather than keep to themselves.

credit u/williamsates -

Impact of mobilizations . Negative mobilizations have a long- term adverse impact on the involved users and communities. We find that negative mobilizations lead to a “colonization” effect, where defenders reduce their participation in the target community while attackers become more active. However, building off our analysis of user-level interactions, our results suggests a possible route for mitigating this adverse outcome: we show that a reduction in the echo-chamber effect—marked by an increased interaction between attackers and defenders—and an increase in defenders’ use of anger words towards attackers, are associated with decreased rates of colonization and increased future participation rates for the defenders. Thus, it appears that increased engagement and a more fierce defense may be a more effective mitigation strategy, compared to ignoring or isolating the attacking users.

Sounds like we need to rescind some of the rules so we don't neuter our ability at an offensive.

I've always enjoyed seeing comments from an obvious brigade maintaining the top comment spot, even after organic comments garner twice as many votes.

Is this because the brigaded comment got so many upvotes within a short amount of time after posting, compared to an organic comment in which the upvotes came in over a longer amount of time?

Top comment 100+ Karma. Content nothing more than saying how /conspiracy is an alt-right t_d sub. 2nd comment: Someone defending the sub and pointing out how the their comment isn't contructive. Downvoted to -20.

Unfortunately, the average person can be really good at that.

I have said this a hundred times, you would have to be naive and gullible to think that vote manipulation, comment control doesn't occur in this /sub.

Since this seems to be the most recent meta thread, what happened with the post about George Nader yesterday? The comments were already locked when I clicked on it, then it disappeared completely.

The mod comment upon locking the thread said it was because the comments section was a shitshow. I don't disagree, but is this some new standard that is being enforced, because I don't think that thread was unique in that regard.

Also, it just seems like it encourages people to be assholes in the comment section to any story they dislike and want to go away. You had guys like shillsonacid in there doing the same thing he always does. If he hadn't been previously banned for acting that way it's weird that it was enough to get a thread deleted.

Nearly 2/3 of the comments broke rules. There was a full gamut from overt racism to calls for violence.

Makes sense. It's understandable to be cracking down harder on that stuff with the recent subreddit bans by the admins.

Admins or otherwise, it was gross.

I had a user try and call me out the other day pretty much saying my karma score was unrealistic for the time I've been on Reddit and possibly was achieved using vote manipulation. I told them it wasn't impossible just unbelievable to some.

Remove us from r/all?

Can you voluntarily abdicate from all? That seems like a no-brainer, only beneficial.

Yeah it's up to the mods, might have to message admin but I know other subs have.

I'd love a trial of hiding karma for 24 hours.

It doesn't solve the problem - bit does remove the integer and visual aspect of it.

I'd love a trial of hiding karma for 24 hours.

Should hide it until the post falls off the front page like 48 hours.

Top variable but I dig it.

The Conspiracy sub has become a Conspiracy itself

It was inevitable, honestly.

Maybe people on here disagree with what you are saying.

It does seem suspicious that a post will be massively upvoted, but all the comments in the post are actually contrasting with what is being said.

You gotta edit the link to put np version of the link man. But yeah I made a thread on this very thing. They're trying to take over the subreddit or get it shut down. That's what they're doing in YouTube to Conspiracy and now they're trying to do here. This sub wakes people up. And it's one of the only places to do so.

So dot your i's and cross your t's and make sure this subreddit follow reddit site rules and your own rules because that way it can survive this most surely, turbulent year.

Dont forget the gaslighting they try in every thread saying "omg how has r/conspiracy changed so much it use to be a liberal playground now its all trumpers and altrights."

Weird that you don't mention the brigading from the Donald and all the obvious pro-Putin, pro-Russia inorganic posts that keep cropping up.

As an old subscriber to alt.conspiracy newsgroups back in the 1990s, the tone here is very different and its definitely not just the liberals (who make up a majority of Reddit in general so its not unusual really) who are the problem.

For vote manipulation put the threads in contest mode

Weird that you don't mention the brigading from the Donald and all the obvious pro-Putin, pro-Russia inorganic posts that keep cropping up.

I'm very much anti-war. Over the last week, i've been called a Russian shill or bot a bunch of times by people who apparently think anyone not sucking the mainstream narrative works for the Russians.

I think there's shills on both sides though. Provocateurs whose purpose is to be highly partisan troublemakers.

He also didn't mention the US Army fleet of fake personas used to propagandize on behalf of the gov. And?

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

They also recently stickied a pro-Russia Post.

You say Pro-Putin. I say pro-truth. The fact that this red scare has devolved down to where if you look at any evidence that questions the official narrative, then you're in support of Putin. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Of course it's fine to be suspicious of the official story. There's an obvious pattern though in which stories are being supported and which are being suppressed by the mods.

All the invading Donald fans were annoying at first but now I can instinctively block them out without even trying.

I hate to say this but It's probably just a matter of time before the sub is taken down /u/axolotl_peyotl. I think we gotta constantly keep up the fight over here, but re-group at the same time somewhere else where the reddit overlords won't be able to push their narratives so easily.

I agree. I feel like reddit as a whole has gone the way of Myspace. It is no longer relevant to what it's original purpose was. In reddit's case a place to have thoughtful discourse online.

A new platform is the real solution. Maybe it already exists, maybe it still needs to be created. But reddit is 100% compromised and it isn't going to get better.

try out https://saidit.net

https://giphy.com/gifs/film-trips-dazed-MoeG1rcytHp3G

I say hide all comment scores for 24hrs.

Flip the gauge.

They say that up is down and down is up, on this little metaphorical control panel that is Reddit. Users can just push the buttons on the case, but you guys have access to some of the internals, including the gauges that display the ups they say are downs and vice versa. So, flip 'em. If they force you to live in opposite land, turn the gauges upside down so it's normal again. Just sort all threads by controversial; tell people that voting has been skewed to the point that upvotes became downvotes and downvotes became upvotes, so you flipped them around.

Here is one possible solution.

I say anything pertaining to current events that could be used to further an agenda or sway opinions needs to be put into contest mode for at least 24 hours, if not permanent. I mean, the reason for the posts are awareness and discussions, no need to declare “winners and losers”.

Yup

It's /r/politics and the 50+ spam subs they use to brigade /r/all, now trying hard to brigade here

Very easy to tell when anything critical of "T_D 2.0" is upvpted eery tome whole anything critical of /r/politics/Hillary/Obama/CNN/Antifa/Shareblue etc is downvote brigaded.

You have no evidence that a problem exists, other than your bias against liberal posters and anti-TD rhetoric. I'm a follower of r/politics, who wants to discuss the Trump-Russia conspiracy theories, and you are saying I don't belong? IMO if you want to do something, ban all political discussion, and only allow the classic conspiracy topics (aliens, supernatural, etc). But you can't pick and choose what visitors to this sub want to discuss just because it doesn't jive with your political beliefs.

You guys pay way too much attention to the #'s. You're not wrong, but it just doesn't even matter. You are letting the numbers divide those interested in conspiracys.

Just read, debate, discuss and integrate the content. Keep moving forward. Stop putting fake internet points on a pedestal. This site is populated mainly by teenagers and bots. Really tink about that for a second. Your post or threads being upvote or downvoted has no decision on it's validity. It's a just a piss poor metic to determine right/wrong.

It's honestly sad how many people filter their responses or vary their opinions in an attempt to pander for upvotes or downvotes. Honestly, it's pathetic. We've all read at least one post here that was absolutely brilliant and compelleing and 'out there' that was mass downvotes becuase it took a sharp turn at the given narrative.

There's a huge conspiracy story in the current news, meaning conspiracy subs like this one are going to be more interesting to the average Reddit user. We've seen this happen whenever we've had a post hit /r/all; a bunch of casual observers rush in and end up reading/voting on a bunch of posts both in the popular thread and in the sub in general. I'm sure you've seen it yourself where we'll get abnormal voting patterns for a little bit afterwards when that happens.

As for those examples you posted, they might be downvoted because people saw them as a deflection and not a worthy contribution instead of being a valid and well thought out addition to the discussion presented in the post. I'm guessing most of the downvotes weren't for that reason, but probably at least a few were.

 

But, there's no perfect solution to that if you consider the growth of the sub to be a problem. You could set it to private but that just creates an echo chamber. You could create more rules, but the manner in which rules are enforced around here aren't exactly consistent so that's not going to help much. You could ban everyone who has ever posted to various subreddits, but that is just penalizing free speech and wrongthink.

 

The sub is growing, especially with all the news lately. With an influx of new users there will always be a change in the culture of a sub, and the harder you try to hold on to what you consider the ideal conspiracy sub the more pushback you'll get.

Sort comments by "newest" for a start.

I tried testing the waters with a real conspiracy last week, something outside of US internal politics. At first it was down voted and gained zero interest and discussion. It's impossible here to discuss anything other than Trump or Hillary.

That's because people come here these days for a fight.

I really appreciate real conspiracies, it's a shame...

As a T_D user, I feel the same. This sub should be for actual conspiracies, not for the political dogfighting that's going on in almost all other subs.

Who gives a shit where you came from? That identity nonsense means little and only serves to detract from any particular discussion.

Shooting the messenger, name calling, whatabouts - all done on purpose.

I think you're correct. How could we make this a less attractive battleground?

If the mods took a heavy hand to users that are almost if not always antagonistic. There are many on this sub and they are rather annoying.

Giving us more options when reporting would be rather useful as well. We have the rules on the sidebar, why these not all options when reporting comments/submissions?

To help mitigate obvious brigades why is totesmessenger not allowed on all posts? The only time I see that bot approved is when OP makes a post and TMOR links it. This is not fair in the least.

Hiding comment Karma for 12-24 hours probably would be the best help, it would keep the most egregious users from crying fowl immediately. However, using contest mode on all posts would be the worst thing that could happen. Whenever contest mode is put into effect sockpuppets show up out of the woodwork and slide or derail the discussion.

Didn't the mods out themselves when they invited t_d users to come here?

That was only one mod that made that post, that user is no longer a mod here. Some of the mods have a bias towards one side more than the other but it's not all of them.

Oh OK. thanks

It was Flytape. He made a post on this sub saying that due to something that happened in T_D, he knows there was an influx of users that showed up to this sub on that day. The stickied post reminded them of the rules in this sub.

Thank you for the added clarification I thought about editing my comment to add more info and didn't. I just don't like to trudge through the meta drama.

You say that, but there is still a mod who heavily favors DJT.

That's why I made the statement that some of the mods have a bias towards one side more than the other. I just don't want to point fingers.

So there's one mod out of like 23? Who do the other 22 favor then?

Interesting. I didn't even know there were that many. I've only ever seen a couple of them post at all.

They’re still around, preaching from the pulpit as per.

Honestly, I have no idea how to do it in a fair and effective manner. I'm not smart enough to know what would both create a more cordial atmosphere while also holding true to the ideals of free speech that many here hold in very high regard. Light moderation encourages it, heavy-handed moderation encourages even worse behavior through alts, and no moderation gets the sub banned from Reddit.

It should be on the community to self-police, but this sub isn't a closed system. There's people from all over moving in and out, changing the sub ever so slightly with their passing, be it with voting behavior or commenting behavior. This makes it impossible for any kind of consistent or lasting self improvement because the self keeps changing. It's a result, I think, of internet communications and discussions in general these days. People are just looking for what amounts to little rushes of pleasure, the dopamine hit, and the comment sections on many other websites really shows it. Well, Reddit itself shows it and it's obvious when you see how much people actually care about the votes their comments get.

I wish I had a great solution, or even a good one. The current political climate makes a sub like this a lightning rod for conflicting narratives. Removing political posts won't work because a lot of really good conspiracies are political. Submission statements were a good idea to cut down on bot submissions, but I don't know where to go from there. I wish I had something better to share.

Move current political conspiracies to a sister-sub.

Fairly true, but it used to be a a really chill place :(

Out of curiosity, what conspiracy did you post about?

Attempt on Palestinian prime minister

Oh man, I would have read that. Shame it was downvoted, sorry about that.

(PS who do you think was responsible? Hamas or otherwise?)

My money is on inside job from Fatah. Either Rajoub or Dahlan. If Hamas wanted him dead he would have been history...

I agree Hamas is too obvious, I find it unlikely they would have attacked him in that circumstance (plus, as you said, if they had wanted to do that, he'd be gone). An inside job makes sense.

It's so frustrating how internal issues like this (purposefully exacerbated by Israel and played to their own advantages) keep the Palestinians from working together to move forward. I don't mean to dismiss the issues within and between Hamas and Fatah, but as an outside it's frustrating.

I think Israel wants Hamdalla in the presidential position, wouldn't be surprised even if they had him on payroll. The remaining candidates however not so much. I wouldn't be surprised however if Shabak is playing both side on inside Fatah. For example, playing Rajoub against Dahlan and so on...

Over the years I came to the sad conclusion that Palestinians are only pawns for their neighbours and the corruption must be huge given how much money has gone there.

Given the downward spiral of reddit and youtube, maybe it's time that we as users unite and establish a new platform? I mean we could easily crowd-fund it so that tech savvy members could establish the framework needed, and a firm set of standard rules for moderating, etc. could be established, with any amendments requiring a vote from members, etc. etc.

I mean I'm not super tech savvy but it seems a basic discussion forum should be easy to implement.

Soros shills fuck off!

It is clearly sabotage. The goal isn't to convince anyone, but to discourage honest participants.

Yup, I came on for the first time in a while today and immediately noticed all the comments from regular users here who generally post good content and put effort into the sub were all at least -5. Meanwhile hordes of random idiots I've never seen before are posting /r/politics talking points and getting highly upvoted. They're targeting the good users here.

That's exactly what happened to me.

You get it. I'm glad you exist.

Ban the american politics and shilling will stop.

It's really that simple.

I don't disagree that eliminating the general political stuff is a good idea…but it won't stop the brigades. It's not just the politics they want us to stop talking about. It's become about anything that disagrees with whatever the MSM takes a position on.

This sub is dead. It was a battleground for years but the subterfuge is really taking it’s toll.

Yeah it's one reason I don't post much anymore. The comments you get are like 60% hate trolls or worse, it honestly takes more bravery than I care for sometimes. You get attacked in every way possible when you post anything. It gets old fast.

Nice post with a couple of great examples.

It's the same manipulation of perceptions that the media engages in….and is every bit as subversive and demoralizing.

To the honest /r/conspiracy users: what should we do about this?

We can see it a mile away, I have no problem with a "disingenuous operator" rule.

There is a group of people that has made it their hobby and entertainment to troll this sub. They do it in an organized effort, others are understandably upset but it's not technically against the rules...until it is.

Yes there is a troll army that gets payed to down vote certain opinions.this is also apparently so on a lot of big subs.

The one thing that pisses them off the most is contest mode because they can't use their usual techniques

We should use it more

I recommend changing the default method for discussion sorting to "new" instead of "best" or "top". /r/WayOfTheBern is another sub I frequent that regularly gets brigaded by /r/politics, and sorting by "new" prevents the brigaders from being able to control the structure of discussion threads.

That and the constant stickies helps. WOTB is much smaller in size though and gets far fewer astroturfers. The community is also great at upvoting and jumping on trolls.

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To the honest /r/conspiracy users: what should we do about this?

We need to organise a library of persuasion and astroturfing techniques, thus rendering them useless.

A guide to these techniques stickies at all times is essential! Great idea.

If you believe there is brigading going on why not report it to the Reddit admins and let them deal with it? Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

The narratives being massaged/hammered here are those that Reddit management considers desirable. That these actions are condoned or enabled by admins is a virtual certainty.

Reddit is foremost an opinion steering mainstream media platform, and talking points from the western media machine are what drives its cold, black heart.

I think literally every subreddit is starting to notice the manipulation that's going on, r/gaming and even r/gamingcirclejerk have had posts today pointing out how certain users always seem to dominate r/all, and they were even questioning how a year old profile manages to get 3.5 million karma just on links alone.

Reddit is the front page of the internet, so it makes sense to gain control of every aspect of it, if the votes are manipulated then they don't gain exposure, while certain users post things that fit in with the political narrative and always get onto the front page.

Reddit is (and probably has been for a while) compromised and can no longer be trusted as a creditable source of information.

It's literally every sub now. Not even the esoteric subs are out of the sights of these forum-destroyers

I switched reading post popularity. Now I search for the new stuff that gets downvote brigaded. I usually agree with those posts the most. Thanks establishment drones !!!!!

The ministry of truth at work, honestly unless this sub becomes private this will go on.

No one has the resources the corpotocracy has to fight them, if they want any agenda pushed they will get it, else they'll just spin it to fit their needs, anyway you loose.

Another option is to pulverize the sub in many mini subs, thus making it less visible.

It's interesting to me that /r/conspiracy was influential enough to burn to the ground... shit's weird these days. Almost all conversations that lead towards politics end up starting with anti-Trump rhetoric, but as soon as I provide a little bit of devil's advocate, everyone backs off really fast. I think people know we are living in a time of 'false truth', where what we say is not really what we believe, but we feel that 'big brother' stare boring down on us. It's just so crazy... it's never been clearer to see who is awake and who is still feeding on the pablum.

I can't help but think that something big is going to happen soon.

make peace in North Korea

ummm source?

they went from brazen weapons testing to agreeing to hand over their main technologies... we're on the way compared to even a few months ago. Sorry for speaking loosely.

Show me something that proves they have handed anything over? What does that even mean exactly? They give us or the un a bomb and suddenly they magically cant make more? They have the tech, you cant change that. They haven't done anything to disarm.

We were telling you this for more than a year now. This was very clear to any conspiracy regular user. Then mod implemented new rules banning anyone who pointed out this behavior. Even the top mods woke up and tried to fix it but the admins didnt want us to recovered our sub.

Biased /r/conspiracy moderator gets upset when a post that he disagrees with is highly upvoted. More at 11.

Rule 10 clearly states that posts attacking this sub, users or mods will be removed. You, a mod, have essentially broken that rule by suggesting users who make comments or upvote posts/comments that you disagree with aren't organic.

I think you guys often conflate "brigading" with users simply seeing a political post they strongly agree or disagree with and simply clicking that up or down arrow. It happens. We're divided. This is what happens.

I've noticed the same trend on many "open topic" subs with high subscriber count. Seems half the subs are being targeted for narrative control and the other half are being targeted to be shut down :/

ITT: "how could anyone hate trump?! Shills are the only answer!"

If this sub is the Donald 2.0 why do we see in every single thread the top comment is about how this is a Russia controlled sub?How does that make sense to anyone upvoting that opinion.

Yep, i come here when im bored and all other avenues are exercised. This sub is shite honestly.

Removed. Rule 10.

What about a 0 tolerance policy on content centered around Trump or Hillary? Or on political info that has no direct reference to a conspiracy? There's a whole sub for political conspiracies, and they can fight it out over there.

It'd be hard to cut out political content entirely, as so many juicy conspiracy content requires political angles.

Yes !!!

Try the vote hiding thing for a month. I don't think it will be as successful as SS's were, but its worth trying.

Are there analytical tools besides what reddit provides that can sift thru data? Any data that can show forum manipulation is probably going to be very welcome and valuable in the upcoming months.

I noticed the blatant brigading in this sub about the same time YouTube started removing "controversial" channels. I suspect that it is part of a scheme to have this sub deleted.

Remember when we used to talk about actual conspiracies?

The content is so shilled it's bringing the sub down. More aggressive approach needed. Particularly with moderation. Aside from that, if you can prove the source of any of the shilling, Sue them. Not kidding. Msg me and I can tell you where I am with the lawsuit plans for two companies that are actively violating my states antibullying laws with their shilling tactics.

Is it really a surprise? Maybe your expectation that these sites aren't manipulated and altered is unrealistic.

Aren't you a mod? Fucking do something about it then. Figure it out.

Vote manipulation is everywhere accross reddit.

For real. I just posted a thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/85fmvz/cultural_marxism_should_be_called_cultural/

The comments are unbelievably salty. I got accused of being a nazi like 4 times. It's ridiculous, they don't even want people discussing this idea at all. It's so exhausting to deal with.

I'm looking for solutions too. On saidit we're going to try and use the pyramid of debate as a basis to judge quality, and get rid of those who argue disingenuously. That's the best method we've come up with, and it seems to be working so far.

Nice post. It really is out of control. People just need to be banned when they consistently drag discussion down levels on the pyramid of debate. That's the metric we use at https://saidit.net and it's working well so far

We should compile more data and put teeth to your argument. Let's get analytical with this shit and create some easy-to-share graphics that summarize what you're saying.

I honestly don't think it would be that hard to track down suspected shareblue accounts... correlate the suspected sock-puppets across platforms. We have a lot of strings to pull.

You've done an excellent job 'reverse engineering' shareblues reddit strategy. We have enough info from David Brock's memo to know what kind of content (they identify themes), the methods used on social media, and the likely sentiment of those posts, and various strategies they use (for instance, baiting + reporting).

Combine that with a methodology similar to what @likingonline is doing... and it should be relatively easy to create a DB of suspected shareblue sock puppet accounts.

Take all of the above and create a detailed How-To guide on spotting shareblue sock-puppets.... and then unleash T_D in a crowd-sourced research effort.

And the top comment is a side tracking comment from an account who never rConspiracy's, that was obviously sold to a new owner at the beginning of 2016. Everyone is wasting their time in the top tar-pit comment.

At this point there are nearly 400 comments here, can't read all, but no harm if this is redundant: in preferences, I set pref: "don't show me comments with a score less than" to a larger negative number; good posts might get knocked down by bot votes, don't want to miss them.

If you're always offering the same "different perspective", you're sketchy as fuck.

When I defend democrats or MSM does that make me pro democrats or MSM?

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

politically driven people who think the conspiracy crowd is screwing with social ideology

This honestly frightens me. This perspective will lead to dissent being punished right here in the USA because "conspracy theorists meddled in the election"!

I made a post about it yesterday, it was immediately buried and never rose above 0.

It's not a fucking conspiracy though is it?

Well cited post? It was a Youtube compilation vid of which there are countless for both Fox, CNN and others pointing out bias and hypocrisy. Who doesn't know that Fox is biased towards conservatives and CNN the opposite etc.

The fact that it got so many upvotes just show it's shilled to fuck because not only is it not a conspiracy but any regular/legitimate user of the sub knows it doesn't belong whatsoever.

As I said, this place is basically a 2nd home to Trump supporters. They flocked here during the elections and there's a huge overlap now.

I wholeheartedly disagree

Yup, I came on for the first time in a while today and immediately noticed all the comments from regular users here who generally post good content and put effort into the sub were all at least -5. Meanwhile hordes of random idiots I've never seen before are posting /r/politics talking points and getting highly upvoted. They're targeting the good users here.

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There is an important distinction. When a conspiracy theory is being pushed by the mainstream media, the natural reaction in conspiracy communities is to try to understand what is their underlying motivation. What we are resisting here is the huge influx of users who want to do nothing other than take the mainstream media at face value rather than doing a deeper analysis of the underlying conspiracy of mainstream propaganda and media manipulation.

So you're saying you think Russian bots are upvoting your comments?

It doesn’t invalidate the conspiracy but anybody who has looked into conspiracy topics for a significant period of time has seen the mainstream media ignore and ridicule most subjects that have been submitted here. The perceived lack of enthusiasm for the Trump/Russia conspiracy is most likely the result of extreme scepticism regarding the truthfulness of the MSM. That definitely doesn’t mean it should be ignored because the messengers are suspect, but the fact that the MSM are discussing it means that it’s already reached popular culture already so there’s less incentive to discuss here.

That's exactly what happened to me.

Unfortunately, the average person can be really good at that.

Well it appears maybe you were the one that understood my point. Cucks? Please get a grip.

Gatekeeping is when it’s not discussed anywhere

So do you agree, at this point, that the Donald 2.0 narrative is being actively manufactured?

You get it. I'm glad you exist.

It's literally every sub now. Not even the esoteric subs are out of the sights of these forum-destroyers

Yea trump is a POS so anyone capable of rational thinking doesn't support him. As establishment as they come

I don't support the FBI or Trump, all corrupt. Whether they truly hate each other or whether it's all just a farce none of them are my friends