"Cultural Marxism" should be called "Cultural Takeover"
29 2018-03-19 by magnora7
The phrase itself is misleading, so it's something the right talks about far more than the left, even though it's affecting everyone.
So let's take seriously for a moment that it's actually happening, and society is changing in ways that make it unstable, and this is being done intentionally as part of a power grab. When people start labeling it as "cultural marxism" people on the left regard that as an silly overly-emotional McCarthy-era strawman argument. Which it is, in a way. Because the ideology that is being used to dissolve culture has changed, but the effect is still the same. Albeit marx intended this to happen in a good way, but it more often happens in a bad way, and those who want to grab power have made a clear note of this and use that accordingly. As it has been said, Marx was a great diagnostician to label the problem, but his ideas about how to fix it do not pan out in reality for various reasons, as all the various experiments of history have shown. It typically ends up being a consolidation tactic, so the government can be truly authoritarian as it wishes. And that's not to say that capitalism is immune from authoritarianism either, far from it.
Anyway, if this idea is instead reframed (more accurately) as "cultural takeover" or "cultural dissolution" or something like this, then we might be able to generate a discussion on this issue that both sides can relate to.
The origin of this cultural destruction relates to the same forces that helped destabilize society in Russia before and after the time of the 1917 Russian revolution. It got rid of the Tsars (who were legitimately bad rulers) and instead replaced them with Lenin, who used the ideology of Marxism/Communism (or at least his version of it, Leninism) to guide his rise to power in the hands of the public after the Tsars fell.
When any old order falls, and the new one arrives, those grappling for power will always sell us a bill of goods that looks great, but they never deliver. It's almost always a power grab. This is why some people hate "populism" despite it being basically the intended outcome of true democracy. Because it's often just a label that is used to deceive people. 3 million people unnecessarily died under Lenin, and 10 million under Stalin, who came right after and had one of the most authoritarian governments in history.
Lenin, and the rise of communism in Russia in the culture, was heavily backed by JP Morgan and the Rothschilds. This is a matter of public record, JP Morgan transferred $25 million to fund Lenin during his rise. Talk about foreign countries interfering in elections! "The people" didn't own the means of production, as in true socialism, instead the government owned it and vehemently shouted that it is "of the people, by the people, and for the people" but instead grabbed power and killed millions in the resulting starvation conditions created by the communist government that lasted for decades, and was very difficult to un-do.
Cultural invasion and dissolution is real. The label "cultural marxism" is a red herring designed to appeal to right-wingers and make left-wingers' brains shut down and refuse to entertain the argument, thus guaranteeing the topic itself is a "right wing" topic that can be split in a divide and conquer across the two parties. I think it is intentionally pushed in this manner, by ensuring "cultural marxism" is the only label under which this conversation can be had.
This prevents the public from unifying to stop the cultural takeover that is taking place. Instead, the larger the right-wing group that realizes this grows, the larger the left-wing opposition to this idea arises as well, thus keeping the first group in check. If you had to control 300 million people in regard to one idea, this is how you'd do it. Polarize the idea so heavily through the language used to label it, that only one side will actually see the intent of what is being said. And the other side is emotionally spring-loaded to reject that idea just because of the label and its associations, even though it's accurate in some ways but not in others. So the two sides will fight each other, even though both sides are being screwed. Because they're not actually arguing with each other, they're generally arguing against what they think the other person believes, based on loaded phrases like "cultural marxism" which immediately paints me like some idiot hand-wringing 1950s conservative.
I think it's important to avoid triggering labels like "cultural marxism" and instead use phrases that convey the same meaning (or are perhaps even more accurate) like "cultural takeover". This helps both sides see ideas clearly and not get clouded by pre-programmed emotional trigger responses, which will help us unify and thus actually have a chance to fix the problem.
70 comments
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
"Cultural Marxism" is already a rebrand of "cultural bolshevism".
Guess who used that phrase!
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Yeah the Bolsheviks are the Rothschilds' media-created cultural group that gave rise to Leninism. It's all tied together at the root, in a lot of ways. Big money trying to control big government.
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
You're aware you're repeating a Nazi talking point
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
It's not a talking point, it's the truth.
Hitler was anti-smoking. Are you anti-smoking? If you are, you must be associated with Hitler, right?
Do you see the logical fallacy there?
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
Would you agree with this statement:
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Well, there's not really Bolsheviks anymore, so no.
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
Shall I continue?
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Definitely do not agree with that. Half of jews reject modern day Zionism, so lumping all jews together with these doing cultural transformations for profit is doing a disservice to jews and it's also just plain inaccurate. It's a few individual hyper-wealthy families that are doing most of this.
1 dunnsk 2018-03-19
whoosh
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
I hope you and lohan0 are having fun trying to paint me as a nazi in this thread, it's not really working very well...
1 radarerror31 2018-03-19
Stop rehashing Nazi memes and people won't call you a Nazi.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
I guess anti-smoking ads are nazi memes too? Since the nazis were against smoking
1 radarerror31 2018-03-19
Your intellectual dishonesty makes me believe you really are a Nazi. They're crawling around more and more these days.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
"Intellectual dishonesty", this from the person going around accusing people of being nazis for observing changes in the culture. Give me a break.
1 radarerror31 2018-03-19
So because things change, it must obviously be the work of communists who have been hitherto marginalized and largely powerless? You can see where a lot of what's happening is coming from, and it is largely coming from monied interests who are, if anything, aligned with capitalism or the aristocracy.
Do you even have a coherent definition of "cultural Marxism"? Conservitards can't even muster that, they just apply the Marxism bugaboo to whatever they don't like because it sways the ignorant. As mentioned, the Nazis used basically the same concept, and the Nazis cribbed it from rumors spread by 19th century conservatives to discredit the liberals. The principle is always the same and is older than dirt.
1 News_Bot 2018-03-19
No but you are literally peddling the fiction of Alfred Rosenberg.
Also.
1 Drake02 2018-03-19
Stop bullshitting.
1 Playaguy 2018-03-19
This is exactly my point. A long time contributor put together a well thought theory for discussion purposes. Obviously wrongthink, accusations of anti-Semitic behavior followed, along with a wave of up and down votes.
An effort to paint a user as anti-Semitic is an attempt to shut down discussion and that is a violation of Rule 10.
Time to take back our sub.
u/Sabremesh u/Mangora7
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Agree.
We're also building an alternative at http://saidit.net
1 dunnsk 2018-03-19
"See? They're saying that everyone is equal and deserves the same freedoms as we wealthy property owning whites! Pretty soon, they'll try to overthrow us. Better make sure the underclass gets it in their heads to be afraid of those filthy leftists. They'll even spread the message for us if we keep at it! We're the ones protecting them from revolution, see?"
1 ashzel 2018-03-19
The people who have no problem changing labels. Judaeo-Bolshevism > Bolshevism > communism > globalism. The same exact things, but the label is changed once it gets a baggage that's too heavy for the mainstream.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Seems like you're the one doing the label-changing. Trying to paint me as anti-Semitic also, which I'm not.
What is an acceptable label in your opinion that we can use to talk about the influence in the media by foreign billionaires who are trying to profit from a destabilization?
1 ashzel 2018-03-19
They made the new label 'globalism' themselves. This isn't some Stormfront creation or anything like that. They're normalizing it themselves, same as they did every time before that. They say that globalism is here to say, they are the globalists and so on. Rising Marxism is just the social policy of these people.
1 News_Bot 2018-03-19
I'm a communist and "globalism" has little to do with communism in the context people mean it. While the goal of communism is global stateless, classless, moneyless socialism... that is not at all what "they" (whoever your token bad guy is) want.
Doesn't help that America has spearheaded a century-long war against socialism and communism and the social zeitgeist portrays an almost mythological interpretation.
1 ashzel 2018-03-19
Don't you realize that the only reason that communist regimes fell was that the west existed and showed a better way? West is by no means perfect, usury-based economy is wrong, but at least people aren't starving. I would know. My country HAD communism.
The ideal utopian vision of communism can't even exist. It interferes with human behavior which is present in all of us. Greed, self preservation, etc.
You have to admit that there are quite big overlapping goals between what communists tried to achieved and what globalists are trying to achieve now. Some of that stuff is too obvious.
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
Usually due to conquest or convenient uprising.
Socialist Spanish Catalonia was destroyed by Spanish Nationals, that didn't make it an inherently inferior system of governance.
1 News_Bot 2018-03-19
Showed a "better way" through assassinations, coups, terrorism, an arms race, embargoes, blockades, sanctions, etc.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Authoritarianism is the problem, not really capitalism nor communism. Just my 2 cents.
The real issue is we haven't figured out how to build a system that avoids collecting power in one place, where it's eventually inevitably hijacked by some dictator or billionaire
1 osmalones 2018-03-19
I agree. I would say that the left has a unconstrained view of society vs the right who has a constrained view. The unconstrained view tends to believe there is a solution to every issue and they know the solution. This tends to lead towards centralization of power and basically everything you described. These labels have been ingrained into us to have a natural disbelief to discredit them. I totally agree with you, but what I see as the biggest issue here is that the left wing generally does not put out a solid position on issues. For example, there are many people that want to repeal the 2nd amendment yet they only call for common sense gun control. Their positions are masked in rhetoric. There is also no accountability, for example Obama and the stimulus was credited with stoping the recession yet that infers that markets are not self correcting. I'm sorry if I was jumping around there but I see this as a major issue in our society that has corrupted peoples mindset. Hopefully our society can survive.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
When you say "the left" are you referring to liberal Americans, or the Democratic establishment? Because the two seem to be becoming more and more separate as the Democrats become neoliberals, which are just corporatists similar to neoconservatives, but they wear a gay-friendly sweater-vest.
But yes it seems like there's a lot of hand-wringing but few actual plans. Probably partly due to how effed up our political process is, and how hard it is to get anything to pass anymore, unless it's some pro-corporate or pro-military industrial complex drivel, then suddenly everyone in congress is bipartisan and finds common ground. It's disgusting, our government is thoroughly hijacked by big money.
1 osmalones 2018-03-19
And the big money is completely hijacked by government.
When I say the "left" I was speaking about the general unconstrained mindset of liberals and Democrats. Yet liberals seem to be splitting from the typical Democrats. I would say that the Democratic party is essentially liberals now tho, if it wasn't for Hillarys corruption Bernie would have been the representative.
The political process is extremely frustrating especially when any policy or law is passed it is extremely difficult to go back. I just don't understand why we continue failing policies with more of the failing policies. I was watching Milton Friedman debate back in the 80's and 90's and it was the exact same inequality and affirmative action being pushed and we have come nowhere since then.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
How on earth did you come to that conclusion? This is putting the cart before the horse, in my opinion.
Yup, and Bernie would've beat Trump. And they knew it but still forced Hillary anyway.
Because corporations have hijacked the government. The policies aren't failing for them, it's making them billions! We're stuck in a treadmill from the 90s, while they pull the money from our pockets and pretend like they don't know what's going on.
1 osmalones 2018-03-19
For example, Frannie Mac and Freddie May was a GSE (government sponsored enterprise) which led to the support and bailout of this company. With the known GSE label there was inherently riskier business ventures. I guess I wasn't arguing that big business is taken over by the government but there are policies that force these companies to make decisions, like the lending of loans to riskier individuals. Having power to interfere in market decisions leads to corruption or decisions benefiting one while hurting others.
1 tatertatertatertot 2018-03-19
there is no such thing as "Cultural Marxism" -- it's just a very broad heuristic that captures everything that a certain subset of anti-SJW SJW's want to discredit. "Cultural Marxism" is the SJWism for the anti-SJW set...
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
This is exactly the attitude that I warn against in the article. You deny the topic exists because of the label it carries, which doesn't actually properly describe it in modern terms.
1 tatertatertatertot 2018-03-19
You just have an absence of results, and a surplus of rhetoric. You can "warn" all you want against it, and the purity of pretend-land you speak of will get your your followers, so it'll work. But it's only just anti-tribalistic tribalism you're actually talking about.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
"I deny the premise and I think you're a hypocrite also"
Ok. Good conversation.
1 tatertatertatertot 2018-03-19
You know what you are, and what you're about.
SJWism for the anti-SJW crowd.
It'll get upvotes! It always has!
Just own it.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Oh please.
1 tatertatertatertot 2018-03-19
Thanks for bowing out. It's less tiring.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Yes, you reject both sides as having any argument, act like you're above it all so you don't have an actual opinion someone might prove wrong. Then you tell me I'm bowing out. That's rich.
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
This post is really relevant considering my post earlier... Take notes.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Yeah, definitely seeing some activity in this thread by a few people who match the criteria you laid out here: https://www.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/comments/85cb16/compiling_a_profile_of_the_shill_introduction/
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1 RMFN 2018-03-19
There absolutely is such thing as cultural Marxism. It exists in the warped minds of reactionaries; therefore it exists. You need to brush up on your Stewart Home.
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
reactionary
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
? Yes?
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Oh wow you think cultural manipulation through the media isn't real?
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
Mag.. You know me. You know what I know and what I do. Don't blow my cover, bro.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
So you actually don't think it's real? I am honestly surprised tbh, but whatever
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
I just said it does exist..
"There absolutely is such thing as cultural Marxism. It exists in the warped minds of reactionaries; therefore it exists. You need to brush up on your Stewart Home."
Read it carefully and try to understand why I would address who I addressed with this comment.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
So you think it only exists in people's imagination, but in reality there is no cultural shift going on due the media being controlled?
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
Things existing in the mind doesn't make them any less real.
I can show a picture of a small man wearing green with a shamrock and or a horse with a horn to 99% of children in the US and they would identify them for what they are.
You should listen to Jonathan Bowden's talk on Stewart Home if you want to know more.
1 RMFN 2018-03-19
Note the snarky non argument presented by the subject.
1 Drake02 2018-03-19
Postmodernism as derived from Derrida's works and deconstructionism = Cultural Marxism.
Everyone tries to detract and pretend it doesn't exist, but the tenants are literally taught in every liberal arts program.
Everytime someone attempts to discredit it they only stay skin deep and only look at the present, and fail to even consider that there is historical precedent from the French postmodern kooks.
1 News_Bot 2018-03-19
Has really nothing to do with Marxism. Or DA JEWS.
1 Drake02 2018-03-19
It has nothing to do with the Jews, that's fairly correct.
Only way I can see them thumbed in is because a large majority of postmodernist we're reactionary toawrds the second world war.
Y'all want everything to be about the fucking Jews...
1 yellowsnow2 2018-03-19
I don't know. I think marxism is still to blame, just because it seems to be Marxist-Leninism style revolutionary tactics being used. Read about the Russian revolution and you will see the parallels of today's cultural takeover.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
It's just an outdated term. Very few people call themselves "marxists" in 2018, and the ideas being used pertain more to the tactics during the russian revolution than the writings and ideology of marx himself. (or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't read everything he's written)
1 yellowsnow2 2018-03-19
I understand your position and was in agreement until I thought about it further.
I really think the finger should be pointed in the most direct direction for those seeking answers by using the correct terms. The whole idea that society can misuse a term so badly that it becomes a trigger is not good. The term is a description of the concept that created Leninism and the millions of deaths. By self censoring the term we are also self censoring the concept it represents and thus the knowledge of the foundation that created the most authoritarian government is modern history. Stalin's government. And once this concept is lost we will just be doomed to repeat history all over again.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Oh I totally agree. But resolving that is several orders of magnitude more difficult than renaming a term.
Trigger words are just a trait of the human brain. The problem is some agencies have realized this and now abuse that to high hell through the media as a means to control people.
By changing the term, we control the conversation and de-program ourselves from the terminology used to control us.
1 yellowsnow2 2018-03-19
I do agree with you. I just don't like that terms need to be renamed out of fear it will obscure the pursuit of understanding. But just as terms like "Fascism".... have been misused until they no longer convey their original/true concept, it is no surprise that the term "marxist" will befall the same fate.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
The term marxist befell that fate 40 years ago toward the end of McCarthyism, that's why I'm so adamant about changing it!
1 samout 2018-03-19
Cultural Marxism doesn't mean literal Marxism, it means behaving like a Marxist on the surface-level but for culture.
Marxism = "Take over the means of production".
Cultural Marxism = "Take over the means of production but for a different reason".
1 dunnsk 2018-03-19
Better not let people stand up for themselves too much, otherwise they might get crazy ideas about changing society, right?
Seems to me you're onto the same backwards, hateful nationalism that the United States fought against a few major wars ago. Same as the Trump crowd. Being exploited and fooled and loving it.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Holy shit this comment thread is so triggered by the OP, jesus christ.
1 armorkingII 2018-03-19
They are triggered because many people here are sympathetic to left-wing authoritarianism and socialism.
They think being opposed to big-oil, the Jews, and other boogeyman make them the rebels. When in fact they are supportive of the true players of the 21st century and their goals. The tech companies are far more powerful. They are increasingly in control of global free speech, communication, the news, commerce, and thought. They are almost unanimously in favor of globalism and supportive of authoritarian government tactics. The heads of this industry are smarter than anyone else and some of them likely have god complexes.
1 procgen 2018-03-19
Can you give a few examples of this cultural takeover?
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Russian revolution, 1917
Collapse of Yugoslavia, 1992
Ukraine civil war, 2014
There's so many. I would even go so far as to say most revolutions are now subject to having their momentum captured by these billionaires. This is a well-known game, and many billionaires play it. So you might have one billionaire trying to destabilize a country, while another one tries to stabilize it. This sort of back-and-forth happens a lot and it's played out through the news media and in the minds of the public, who then decide how they want the post-revolution government to be organized.
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
For context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism
1 lohan0 2018-03-19
1 trumpetspieler 2018-03-19
How is this 65% upvoted? That was about the most diplomatic well intentioned post I've seen in awhile. Not to even mention the other comments...
The mockingbirds are back again.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
Thank you. I appreciate the thoughts. It really feels bad to see that 65% when I tried so hard to present a reasonable opinion, not to mention the comments.
If there is a goal to drive out any reasonable discussion and drive away reasonable people, these people are doing a bang-up job of it.
1 News_Bot 2018-03-19
Citation needed. I'm going to guess "Anthony C. Sutton", in which case it's quite a fictional account.
1 osmalones 2018-03-19
For example, Frannie Mac and Freddie May was a GSE (government sponsored enterprise) which led to the support and bailout of this company. With the known GSE label there was inherently riskier business ventures. I guess I wasn't arguing that big business is taken over by the government but there are policies that force these companies to make decisions, like the lending of loans to riskier individuals. Having power to interfere in market decisions leads to corruption or decisions benefiting one while hurting others.
1 magnora7 2018-03-19
I guess anti-smoking ads are nazi memes too? Since the nazis were against smoking
1 Drake02 2018-03-19
Stop bullshitting.