Hmm... Im willing to bet she is a moderator of that subreddit.

She is not. OP is butthurt over the rules of our sub and his poor reading comprehension. User was already in contact with us over (a) the details of the story & what was changed & why, and (b) the fact that she already intended on wiping that account because she had still left too many details to reveal her identity. The brigading and harassment that OP incited simply prompted her to do it immediately. Surely you don't think someone who has an entire subreddit attacking her deleting her account is unreasonable or signaling some kind of conspiracy?

the details of the story & what was changed & why.

......

She moved an entire country.

Pakistan is not part of the middle east.

Anyone who is been to Pakistan and worked there would know that.

She also mixed up what language was spoken in what province.

There were alot of other mistakes as well in her story. (People dnt have access to the internet even today let alone 15 years ago.)

She moved an entire country.

yes, people do that. because if someone says "i live in [tiny country] and [unusual thing] happened to me," that makes it pretty damn easy for the people she's hiding from to figure out who she is.

they're not mistakes, they're deliberate detail-fuzzing so you can't pin down exactly which country or when the story took place and thereby identify her.

Im not sure why your even trying to defend her.

She already said she lived in Finland and that house keeper was from Pakistan. What exactly is the point of changing the region from sub continent to Middle east ?

Remind me to delete this comment tomorrow btw dnt want to give out personal info.

i'm defending her because she did nothing wrong. one person's utter failure to comprehend what actually happened doesn't justify either her or our sub being slandered and maligned.

You should really stop pretending you have the moral high ground.

You did not have a specific disclaimer saying that details had been changed.

You commenters, based on her story, called Pakistan a terrorist country, called for Pakistan to be wiped off the map, called for Pakistani 'middle eastern people to be banned from entering the US etc. In none of these did the poster contradict these commenters by saying that her story did not necessarily take place in Pakistan but that the details were fuzzed for anonymity.

You are contributing to ostracising of an entire nation of 200 million people, contributing to racial stereotypes about them and then claiming the moral high-ground and talking about how the other person did not "comprehend" the situation.

You need to have clear disclaimers on the top of all such stories. Racial abuse and propaganda is fine in your sub but dont call out obvious factual inaccuracies in someones account because that will get you banned /logic

You did not have a specific disclaimer saying that details had been changed.

it is understood to be a regular occurrence which is why we have a rule against truth-policing.

You commenters, based on her story, called Pakistan a terrorist country, called for Pakistan to be wiped off the map, called for Pakistani 'middle eastern people to be banned from entering the US

none of those comments were appropriate and should have been reported since they are clearly racist. regardless of what story a person shares, where it takes place, what religion/nationality it involves, we don't allow hate speech. but we can't remove it if we don't see it because it goes unreported.

none of those comments were appropriate and should have been reported since they are clearly racist. regardless of what story a person shares, where it takes place, what religion/nationality it involves, we don't allow hate speech. but we can't remove it if we don't see it because it goes unreported.

What bullshit. You need to be more proactive than that.

by what, personally reading every single comment made in a sub with nearly 200,000 users? do you think the mods of r/funny or r/askreddit read every single comment posted in their sub? or do they rely on reports from the community to be made aware of problems?

No they don't read every single comment and I wouldn't expect them, nor you, to do that. But considering your subreddit is more like /r/thatHappened I would expect for you to be more proactive in monitoring a lot of the more popular threads with outlandish stories that were flooded with some very vile comments. I hope you didn't just delete those comments but banned the users as well

No they don't read every single comment and I wouldn't expect them, nor you, to do that.

you literally told me i'm "too busy to be a mod" in another comment because i'm too busy to personally read every single comment.

But considering your subreddit is more like /r/thatHappened

it's not, though, except to smarty-smartasses who think they're smarter than everyone else and they're so smart for saying "r/thathappened."

I hope you didn't just delete those comments but banned the users as well

i'm working on that right now, and will continue (as best i can while y'all are blowing up my inbox) until my kids wake up.

You clearly are not very intelligent. Like I said, it seemed that you're too busy to even show an ounce of "proactiveness". No one wants nor expects you to read every single comment. But your job is more than just lying low and only taking action when something gets reported.

On your second point, I would never attempt to discredit a story to which I have no background knowledge in. Pakistani natives and individuals who are knowledgeable about that area were the only ones who called her out. If that thread wasn't filled with some very racist comments, then we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

OK I understand both sides of the issue now.

The dissenter guy was a bit of a dick, I will agree with you. Your own responses were not much better though. You refused to try and understand his concerns, and he yours.

I'll summarise how it should have gone for you.

Him: She is lying because her account is factually inaccurate. This portrayal of Pakistan concerns me because, Pakistan, already has a big image problem internationally and Pakistanis are regularly victims of hate crimes abroad. And this account, that is not factually correct, could serve to solidify negative stereotypes even more putting lives and wellbeing of Pakistanis abroad in danger.

You: Her account is factually inaccurate because it has been changed to protect her identity. She has explained to us that she did infact change the names of the country and cities this occured in.

Him: Oh, I understand. Could you please put up a big disclaimer that details have been changed. Especially in cases where the poster has actually told you that the names of places have been changed. Because while it may be that this is understood, alot of your users forget this and take the whole story as being true. This is evident from a majority of the comments passing judgement on Pakistani society after reading the story.

Also while this may be an unspoken understanding on your sub, popular stories also attract a large audience from r/all who would not be aware of such an understanding.

You: Oh yes, that would be a good step and it would prevent alot of misunderstanding.

Now if both of you hadn't gotten into a pissing contest. This is what the exchange would have been like and would have benefited everyone. Have a nice day.

Him: Oh, I understand.

see, that's where it broke down. what actually happened was

HIM: she is lying because her account is factually inaccurate.
US: it is factually inaccurate because it has been changed to protect her identity, which is why we have rules against truth-policing.
HIM: OMG YOU'RE PROTECTING LIARS REEEEEEEE
US: okay no if that's how you're going to be, YOU get banned.

users from r/all have an obligation to read our rules before participating in our sub.

I didn't say only you were at fault. The communication breakdown was due to both of your faults'. Though I do agree he became irrational first. I told him as such as well.

"users from r/all have an obligation to read our rules before participating in our sub."

Ofcourse in an ideal world, everyone would do as they are expected to. In an ideal world the communication breakdown that happened here wouldn't happen either. Ofcourse, this world isn't ideal which is why I would encourage you to add such disclaimers to every story.

Also, its not just users from r/all. Like i said before, details being changed may be a generally understood thing in your sub but judging by the comments on the original post, hardly anyone keeps that in mind while reading the stories. So yeah, it would be nice to have disclaimer above every story just to remind everyone.

Sorry for the whole brouhaha on this incident. Have a nice day.

TBF they did remove a lot of comments though.

I stand corrected then. I do think that the original poster (the guy from r/pakistan, who called her out) was a bit of a dick. He was right to point out the inconsistencies but his language and attitude afterwards become personal and egotistical. Also, there is obviously a small chance that we are wrong and the woman was telling the truth. We obviously can't know for certain, but he was unwilling to allow that chance at all.

The mod who was replying to him here was a bit of a dick too. All in all, both of them were at fault somewhat. The stories should have clear disclaimers, on every story, regardless of whether it is understood to be the case or not.

If you look through the comments, the user in question actually told users that the (failed) firebomb was not terrorism, and if she had said she was in a country that was primarily Christian or white would they still be making those suggestions.

She also stated that she was extremely uncomfortable where insinuations were headed.

Good on the OP for doing so. I must have missed those replies. Though in most replies, people judge Pakistan and Pakistani society based on her story and she seems perfectly fine with it. I'll give some examples here from the top comments:

OP in her actual post: "they're fighting against a culture that thinks women's shelters are just brothels and there's no such thing as domestic abuse."

"It's not their nationality that's the problem, it's their ideology." OP: "Housekeeper's FOO aren't from here and have run away back to their rural homeland where the rule of law is a myth, like dragons."

"Geez. I have a friend from Pakistan who is here as a Fulbright scholar getting her doctorate. I don't think I fully realized how fortunate she is" OP: "I imagine she's probably from one of the more metropolitan areas. The rural areas, especially near Kashmir and Iran, are much less liberal."

"This example of their culture is why I don’t want to let a single refugee from the Middle East into America"

"That certainly sounds like most of the Pakistani people over the age of 25 I know"

These are only a few of the examples of people forming opinions about Pakistani society based on a story which by the mod's own admission didn't even happen in Pakistan.

She could have easily replaced whatever country/cities it happened in with a generic "X". I am not saying she had malevolent intent. She made a mistake. This can easily be solved by adding disclaimers to every story, or by making sure that generic placeholders are used in stories instead of country/city names. The main mod that replied is also at fault. Instead of admitting that there need to be a change in policies, he made it into a personal pissing content between himself and those that pointed out these issues.

She also removed her post because she realized that in using a country near-ish to where she was she’d unintentionally maligned a nation.

Not because she was part of a conspiracy.

OP also left out his/her original messages to both the mod team, AND the user. In doing so you can’t see the original tone, or the words he used in his original messages. That leaves out a large piece of the puzzle.

However, asking personal questions to be answered, posting a whole post in r/Pakistan and getting users to come comment, DM OP, and several other moves OP made aren’t just against the sub’s rules, it breaks Reddit’s site-wide rules as well.

I never implied that she was part of a conspiracy. Only that the mod "dietotaku" was being extremely daft in his replies.

The whole issue eventually just became a pissing contest between the OP and "dietotaku" tbh. And I said as much to both the OP and the mod replying here.

We don't know why OP deleted her post. Those claiming her to be a part of a conspiracy, and you attributing her actions to purely good intent are both wrong. There is not enough evidence to be sure of either case.

In either case the rules of the subreddit need to be changed. Disclaimers on every post, and generic placeholders instead of real names are needed.

The OP here left out his original messages in the original post. He commented with a link to them somewhere but I cant find them. Although the whole thing devolved into a pissing contest, his tone initially was not too inappropriate.

I am not too well versed with reddit's site-wide rules tbh, so I dont know if they were broken here. Have a nice day!

I know you personally didn't imply it was a conspiracy, but look where OP posted.

And instead of reporting the unacceptable comments so we'd see them quickly and remove them, he firstmade a whole post on r/pakistan about it, then went after the user (she got multiple unacceptable PM's) and demanded she come tell her personal information to the sub, then finally hours and hours later sent us a whole "I caught a liar and I'm going to break this sub's rules and make a whole post about it" message.

That's where mods got involved. As to how I know the location and intentions when it came to the user deleting her post? Simple, I'm a Mod there and she actually sent a modmail to us before he did.

The subreddit rules are clearly stated in the Wiki, which is very conveniently located on the sidebar. We, BTW, don't allow links out to other subs in our comments to avoid brigading. Users from r/Pakistan broke not just our subs rules, but by coming from there to JNMIL and voting and commenting they broke Reddit rules. That is brigading. Users of every sub and the site itself have the responsibility to read and follow the rules prior to commenting.

Had each of those users just reported each comment that was offensive they would have quickly come to our attention and been removed. And if OP here cares so much about our sub and community like he said he wouldn't have shit-stirred. He'd have come to us first, saying he found the post to be Inappropriate. He'd have reported the comments. He'd have known the sub rules.

He was banned for breaking rules, not because of some cover-up like he thinks. His message literally said "ban her or ban me". Well, one broke sub rules multiple times, harassed the OP via PM and got other to do so too (and he claims she wants karma? Who cares about karma?!), then when told his posting would cause a Ban threw out the "ultimatum". The other user notified us first, explained the situation, and pulled the post as to not offend anyone else. They're also a frequent quality commenter that has helped a number of people with her comments.

Placing an anonymous post on a support sub does not mean that readers are welcome to the details of that person's personal life. We don't truth police for that exact reason. These people come from abusive backgrounds and do not want to be found. PM'ing them asking for exact clarifications of where and when they were somewhere exactly is nuts. And the whole huge "FB wasn't around back then" argument shows that when riled up, people's reading comprehension flies out the window. It meant that they were found on FB later, by their brother who was using a fake account. Also, if you read it clearly, there was years since the housekeeper ran, then more time between the user's and her housekeeper meeting then re-meeting in which time she was back on the street. There was also no timeline mentioned for how long it took to obtain a tourist Visa. And she clearly stated that the firebomb didn't work as it was not made correctly.

Thank you for being civil in your conversation and not joining in the brigade, but instead trying to see things from both sides.

Thank-you for being so understanding.

Please apologise on my behalf to the OP. I wont message her myself because it might get buried in the spam she might have gotten from this post.

I apologise on behalf of everyone at r/Pakistan for users that engaged in brigading. We have more than our fair share of hot headed irrational fools there unfortunately.

I'm in the middle of exam week at uni, so I dont have time right now. But I will make a post on r/Pakistan detailing the issue later and try to make users understand where they went wrong in trying to correct their grievances.

Thank-you for giving your time and resources to a valuable place like r/JustNoMIL. A cursory review of the subreddit shows that you guys are doing a valuable service

I would reiterate that "fudged details" stickies on posts that are gaining traction might be a good idea for your sub though. Have a nice day!

and r/iamverysmart users yelling "r/thathappened" on any remotely unusual story is exactly why we have the rule that you flagrantly violated.

You are being deliberately daft.

You are unwilling to understand where this user is coming from, and obstinately hiding behind a rule to justify condemnable behavior.

You are unwilling to understand where this user is coming from

i'm unwilling to club myself in the head in order to "understand" where he's coming from, yes.

obstinately hiding behind a rule to justify condemnable behavior.

well what you see as condemnable we see as someone with a grudge harassing someone whose stories he doesn't like because he has a "i'm too smart you can't fool me" chip on his shoulder. he has the whole rest of reddit to play the "HEY YOU'RE A BIG PHONY" game but he doesn't know OP, he didn't personally witness her life so he has no grounds to state what she is or is not making up.

It's a very basic principle to understand: if you lie and get caught, just apologize and move on. Any person with even an elementary understanding of the South Asian region was able to see glaring holes and misinformation in the now-deleted post.

This is reddit. I can make any story up and any stranger should be able to scrutinize it, and I should very well be able to defend it.

it's a very basic principle to understand: if something doesn't go the way you want, accept it and move on. user did not "lie and get caught."

you scrutinize whatever you want on the rest of reddit. in JNMIL we take people's stories at face value, because the only thing worse than being lied to is trying to get help with an actual problem and being called a liar.

Please re-read what you wrote. There's a reason you're being downvoted to oblivion on this thread.

yeah that reason is because i'm dissenting in a sub dedicated to finding "conspiracies."

Youre being downvoted because you come off as a narcissistic asshole

Okay yeah, none of that shit would even remotely happen in Finland. You can't just make someone your housekeeper in Finland (illegal) and there's no fucking firebombing - that's Sweden. Finland's not quite that far gone and if anyone even attempted that they would get mauled by the entire city (finnish people don't take no bullshit from foreigners - they're shy but will destroy you if you step out of line).

Sounds like someone imagining a TV show about some make-believe anime and thinking none of that is even remotely realistic.

She can just leave the name of the country as blank, or she has to clearly disclaim that the country names, person names, ethnicities mentioned have been changed to protect identity.

She is maligning/reinforcing stereotypes for an entire country that already faces alot of censure internationally and whose citizens are already targets of hate crimes in many countries. Don't you think their security is just as important as the security of your 'poster'?

The MIL#5 (lol) and the whole "middle eastern pashto pakistanis from the iranian border" clan had supposedly found out where she lived and firebombed the place and pissed on her car and whatnot. Her cover was already blown.

and that's a reason to invite redditors to doxx her as well?

No one was doxxing her. They were were merely checking to see if her story held water. It didnt.

by attempting to pinpoint exactly where she is.

Asking her where in Pakistan she'd been to isnt doxxing. After all, learning where exactly there is a Pushtun tribal area on the Iranian border is interesting news for us as well

So you've banned me as well. I got my eye on you and your sub, boss.

it doesn't matter who hit the ban button, there was a consensus.

you did us no favor, you attacked a long-time valued contributor over baseless suspicions in direct violation of several of our rules.

and i'm sure you can guess exactly how much i care about your opinion of my choice of vernacular.

It really is like Lifetime with you guys isn't it?

you're the one trying to stir up drama in a subreddit for hardcore conspiracy nuts so you tell me?

Because in this "hurr durr conspiracy nut" -sub people can actually debate freely and you have some semblance of integrity. Does that make you uncomfortable? Come on, say something about tinfoil hats too!

Come on, you forgot to say something about tinfoil-hats and make a totally fucking original illuminati-joke like a basic bitch.

I am pretty sure its been proven beyond doubt that the suspicions were at the very least not baseless.

"and i'm sure you can guess exactly how much i care about your opinion of my choice of vernacular." Fancy way of saying fuck you, I talk the way I want. Disappointed that this sort of juvenile rationale is coming from a mod.

I am pretty sure its been proven beyond doubt that the suspicions were at the very least not baseless.

no, it really hasn't. all we have is one person saying "it couldn't have been pakistan!" okay, well it wasn't. she told us that. it happens all the time because people don't want to be identified. the only proof that has lent itself to actually getting someone removed for making up stories is when someone sent us a screenshot of person A posting an update to a completely different story as if they were person B (so one person was using multiple accounts to post multiple stories). THAT is proof of lying. "i don't think that could have taken place in the exact location OP says it took place" is not.

Fancy way of saying fuck you, I talk the way I want. Disappointed that this sort of juvenile rationale is coming from a mod.

well you didn't like when i spoke casually so i used my fancy words. there's nothing juvenile about being unconcerned what a paranoid troll thinks of my word choices.

"Juvenile paranoid troll" in your opinion. Just as you might be a "racist, bigoted, juvenile power tripper" in his opinion. Not saying that you are such things. But that to simply not try to understand the other persons perspective because they are unworthy of being engaged in your opinion is the definition of juvenile behaviour, and not behaviour worthy of a moderator of such a quality sub. Have a nice day. Also, please read my short summary of the whole affair on your other comment.

I invited her to /r/pakistan to discuss her story. There was no brigading. I was merely people from Pakistan asking her to explain the holes in her story. Even that was too much for her.

Why are you defending such a weasel?

it is our understanding that her post was being discussed in r/pakistan before she was "invited to discuss her story," and that many users from that sub then PM'd her with abuse or attacked her in her own thread which constitutes brigading.

why are you so determined to believe she's a weasel?

users from that sub then PM'd her

Proof? Or we also just taking her word?

And no one is determined to believe she's a weasel. Why did she delete all of her past stories as well?

because she left too many personal details in them and she is now a target of harassment.

Because she's a coward who ran when Pakistanis asked explain her story about their country.

Dont be daft. Give her the benefit of the doubt. We dont have anything against her as an individual. Her behaviour was fishy beyond doubt, but we cant be sure. So we cant judge her.

The policies of the sub-reddit need to be changed though. Its basic common sense to change details to generic placeholders instead of maligning a whole country.

He attacked a racist. Racists should be attacked.

And what about people on your subreddit attacking people like me based on her made up story? Saying how terrible our culture was, how the family needs to be branded as terrorists, there was even a comment saying our whole continent needs to be wiped off and someone else calling for the banning of ME refugees (Pakistanis are not Middle Eastern btw). A fake story like that deserved to be picked apart.

were any of those comments reported to the mod team?

Why weren't you actively reviewing those comments? You are a mod after all?

because i have a life?

Seems you're to busy to be a mod.

not too busy to check reports. again i ask, do you think the mods of bigger subs read every single comment in every single thread in their sub?

Calm down dude. It's not their fault. They didn't make up the story. Stop being so OTT.

Calm down dude & stop being so OTT. At least we know the truth now. Let them have their say.

One of them was removed & it should have been. I'm not attacking you. Ofc no moderator can verify the story before it's posted. I don't have anything against you.

But I find it wrong that someone would use a made up story about another country & use a sensitive topic such as violence against women for what seemed like an attention seeking ploy. It had 900 upvotes so let's just assume 900 people read it who now think honor killers from Pakistan are running around freely in the West firebombing locals, peeing on their cars & terrorizing them. It plays to the stereotypes people have of immigrants & their fears regarding them not to mention making light of genuine problems Pakistani women face.

If the story wasn't even set in Pakistan then why not use a vague term to define the country? Why was that OP giving such detailed answers on Pakistani geography/culture etc. to anyone who asked? It's fishy & weird.

And I don't blame you or the other mods. I don't think this is your fault.

I think this is the biggest issue. I love justnomil and it has helped me so much with my MIL and I understand changing details to remain anonymous , so I hope this doesn't get me banned... However, the OP didn't just change the country, she was responding in comments specifically referencing other places in Pakistan. It's not something you can just transpose and approximate from one country to the next... If Pakistan was just a place holder, why was she very specifically pointing out different cities where one of the commenters friends could be from? Changing details is fine I suppose but I don't understand why another country even had to be used? Why not just say 'a middle eastern country' if that's where it was, or a disclaimer like someone suggested...

Who knew? You can't believe every story on the internet man.

so you're a special kinda stupid.

At least they're not chasing a constant dopamine-high of having to make every day have a manifactured internet soap opera on reddit, twitter or tumblr. Life is usually mundane, face the facts. Not surprising you're a subscriber of both that sub and Dungeons and Dragons. Real life feeling a bit too much?

IHocMIL and the moderation team call me a tinfoilhat wearer and told me to stop believing in 'conspiracy theories'. Source 3

(looks at this quote)

(looks at the sub this was posted to)

...so, we were right?

Lol what a response, really killing it.

MILUMINATI

Full disclosure: I'm a mod there, but I'm the lazy one so I hardly count.

The primary function of the sub is for support, not verified factual stories. It's neither possible nor reasonable to expect each story to be vetted.

You were banned for inciting brigading against one of our members, as stated in your Source 4.

You not liking the series of events doesn't make for much of a juicy conspiracy.

not verified factual stories

Makes sense. Now wonder a post that cant even put Pakistan in the correct region be let through.

Expecting us to play Truth Police just isn't reasonable or fair. Just because refuse to even attempt such an absurd thing doesn't mean we buy every story or don't care, but, being a support sub, we'd rather let the fake ones alone than risk alienating a person who was reaching out for support.

That's absolutely fair dude. You have no argument from me over this.

I'm just pointing out why some people got so defensive over this. There was a lot of missinformation in that post that may have peeved off some ppl.

No one's out to pretend some of the stories aren't completely ridiculous. Though I think most Americans do think Pakistan is part of the Middle East...

Though I think most Americans do think Pakistan is part of the Middle East...

Not people who have lived or worked there though. As she was claiming.

You'll get no argument from me! I'm not here to defend OP. People getting on the JNMIL mods for being unwilling and unable to play Truth Police is just super old.

Thank you for being so reasonable! I completely understand why truth policing would be too hard to do and I think it's better that a made story gets through than have a real one that seems made up deleted. But in this instance I understand why people from Pakistan or any country where these stereotypes are prevalent would be mad about the perpetuation of misinformation, even if the country was changed to preserve anonymity

Yeah, I'm not holding it against anyone. Except this guy who decided it just be a conspiracy against him... 😅

I do kind of understand where they're coming from, it is kind of frustrating that a lot of posts asking for advice get 15-20 comments maybe, many of them not directly saying 'NC' but still giving unrealistic advice that doesn't break the rules but still ultimately boils down to cut off everyone in your life, while MILITW posts get 100s of comments. I don't think there's anything that can easily be done to fix this, but it is kind of frustrating. But I'll still take what I can get to help me deal with my MIL!

They got defensive because this is their replacement for reality TV and you're ruining their dopamine-high and fantasy drama that they're trying to convince themselves is real because they don't experience this shit in real life anymore, and the internet and daily manifactured reddit/tumblr/twitter -drama is their only source of entertainment.

Every single day there has to be a super life altering story of justice prevailing on the internet for them. Someone writes "I hit my toe on a chair this morning" and they'll jump in like vultures and go "You say an evil warlord chair oppressed you?!? Get this to the presses immediately, retweet retweet, share everywhere!".

Calm down. You are not trying to understand their point of view. Calm down and talk rationally instead of taking this personally.

wow downvoted just for telling people argue rationally. Good job guys, there definitely isn't any brigading going on here /s

Can I post completely fictitious tales then?

Well you can't now.

I feel brigaded against. How do you know if my stories will be fictitious or not?

I vetted you. Just now. Vetted you so hard.

Since you seem like a more sensible/unbiased fellow than the other moderator posting here.

You guys really need a big disclaimer above stories that have their details changed for the sake of anonymity The other mod basically implies that the country name itself was changed in this particular post for anonymity.

Pakistan already faces alot of international censure and Pakistanis are routinely made a target of hate crimes abroad because of its bad reputation. I am not saying that we dont deserve some of this censure, but alot of it is due to pressure groups/interest groups that deliberately sell this narrative about Pakistan. India in particular has not been shy about admitting that they fund an international campaign to isolate Pakistan and Pakistanis politically and culturally. We have seen a exponential growth in online biased material portraying Pakistan in a bad light ever since Pakistan broke off with the US politically and started moving towards China. In a climate like this, you would understand why we would be sensitive about such a story.

I understand the need for the support group to not call out posters' stories. Or to change details for anonymity. But if such large details are changed, there absolutely NEEDS to be a clear disclaimer about it.

Just in the comments of this story. Pakistani were called terrorists in general, culture was criticised based on the details of the story (which are fundamentally wrong on details about Pakistan btw), one person called for Pakistan to be wiped off the face of the earth, another person called for banning of entry for 'middle eastern' Pakistanis.

I think it would be more reasonable to continue to deal with problem threads on a case-by-case basis, rather than make our stickied auto-post yet longer, seeing as this happens so rarely [read: once ever].

I'm not seeing a lot of comments you're talking about. There is a conversation about whether or not to classify these people as terrorists, where the OP of that suggestion specifically states several times that it's due to the methods, not the nationality. A controversial conversation, but civil. There's one person who states that situations "like these" make her sometimes wish for the continent to be wiped off the face of the earth (which was removed by a mod after it was reported). I see one comment stating they don't want refugees coming from the Middle East to America, which was downvoted and quickly deleted.

I understand the frustration that comes from identifying with a culture that is constantly negatively stereotyped, harangued, or worse, so I won't begrudge you the hyperbole. I understand seeing a thread full of falsehoods would be more than just irritating, but you have to take into consideration that people can't help what they don't know. Most people don't even know something as basic as that Pakistan isn't in the Middle East.

It's hard to track how it was handled at the onset of members of /r/Pakistan calling out falsehoods. It looks like the OP deleted the thread pretty quickly. Most of the posts from users are just calling OP a liar without substance--only one falls in line with out rules of asking for details without being accusatory, but the next reply to it does, and at that point the thread had already been brigaded anyway.

We'll keep in mind to manually add a sticky about the "fudged details" practice in the future on threads that look like they may end up controversial, and about topics most of our users will have little knowledge of. I'm not sure what else can reasonably be expected to have been done, but if you have any suggestions do let me know.

Thank-you for being so understanding.

I agree the best that can be reasonably expected to be done is for "fudged details" stickies to be added to posts that gain alot of traction.

I apologise on behalf of everyone at r/Pakistan for users that engaged in brigading. We have more than our fair share of hot headed irrational fools there unfortunately.

Thank-you for giving your time and resources to a valuable place like r/JustNoMIL. A cursory review of the subreddit shows that you guys are doing a valuable service.

No need to apologise; I'm sure I wouldn't've been able to help myself either, and I don't think anyone was really out of line. Thanks for the reminder that we need to put disclaimers on controversial posts.

I get it. You encourage dramatic adventure-filled posts like that to attract traffic to your sub. I totally get it.

What's the benefit, for us, of more traffic? We typically reject publicity. There's just no reasonable way we can be expected to stop it.

Read the story and I am from Pakistan. 99.9% chance that it is fabricated. The details are an eclectic mixture that don't add up at all. Sadly, it is easy to karma farm via embellished stories on Reddit. Especially from countries like Pakistan that don't have that much representation on the website (and have an image problem). You have way less chance to be called out. Fortunately, this post blew up on r/Pakistan and the poster, when confronted, scurryed away with a deletion.

not too busy to check reports. again i ask, do you think the mods of bigger subs read every single comment in every single thread in their sub?

because she left too many personal details in them and she is now a target of harassment.

I know you personally didn't imply it was a conspiracy, but look where OP posted.

And instead of reporting the unacceptable comments so we'd see them quickly and remove them, he firstmade a whole post on r/pakistan about it, then went after the user (she got multiple unacceptable PM's) and demanded she come tell her personal information to the sub, then finally hours and hours later sent us a whole "I caught a liar and I'm going to break this sub's rules and make a whole post about it" message.

That's where mods got involved. As to how I know the location and intentions when it came to the user deleting her post? Simple, I'm a Mod there and she actually sent a modmail to us before he did.

The subreddit rules are clearly stated in the Wiki, which is very conveniently located on the sidebar. We, BTW, don't allow links out to other subs in our comments to avoid brigading. Users from r/Pakistan broke not just our subs rules, but by coming from there to JNMIL and voting and commenting they broke Reddit rules. That is brigading. Users of every sub and the site itself have the responsibility to read and follow the rules prior to commenting.

Had each of those users just reported each comment that was offensive they would have quickly come to our attention and been removed. And if OP here cares so much about our sub and community like he said he wouldn't have shit-stirred. He'd have come to us first, saying he found the post to be Inappropriate. He'd have reported the comments. He'd have known the sub rules.

He was banned for breaking rules, not because of some cover-up like he thinks. His message literally said "ban her or ban me". Well, one broke sub rules multiple times, harassed the OP via PM and got other to do so too (and he claims she wants karma? Who cares about karma?!), then when told his posting would cause a Ban threw out the "ultimatum". The other user notified us first, explained the situation, and pulled the post as to not offend anyone else. They're also a frequent quality commenter that has helped a number of people with her comments.

Placing an anonymous post on a support sub does not mean that readers are welcome to the details of that person's personal life. We don't truth police for that exact reason. These people come from abusive backgrounds and do not want to be found. PM'ing them asking for exact clarifications of where and when they were somewhere exactly is nuts. And the whole huge "FB wasn't around back then" argument shows that when riled up, people's reading comprehension flies out the window. It meant that they were found on FB later, by their brother who was using a fake account. Also, if you read it clearly, there was years since the housekeeper ran, then more time between the user's and her housekeeper meeting then re-meeting in which time she was back on the street. There was also no timeline mentioned for how long it took to obtain a tourist Visa. And she clearly stated that the firebomb didn't work as it was not made correctly.

Thank you for being civil in your conversation and not joining in the brigade, but instead trying to see things from both sides.

I think it would be more reasonable to continue to deal with problem threads on a case-by-case basis, rather than make our stickied auto-post yet longer, seeing as this happens so rarely [read: once ever].

I'm not seeing a lot of comments you're talking about. There is a conversation about whether or not to classify these people as terrorists, where the OP of that suggestion specifically states several times that it's due to the methods, not the nationality. A controversial conversation, but civil. There's one person who states that situations "like these" make her sometimes wish for the continent to be wiped off the face of the earth (which was removed by a mod after it was reported). I see one comment stating they don't want refugees coming from the Middle East to America, which was downvoted and quickly deleted.

I understand the frustration that comes from identifying with a culture that is constantly negatively stereotyped, harangued, or worse, so I won't begrudge you the hyperbole. I understand seeing a thread full of falsehoods would be more than just irritating, but you have to take into consideration that people can't help what they don't know. Most people don't even know something as basic as that Pakistan isn't in the Middle East.

It's hard to track how it was handled at the onset of members of /r/Pakistan calling out falsehoods. It looks like the OP deleted the thread pretty quickly. Most of the posts from users are just calling OP a liar without substance--only one falls in line with out rules of asking for details without being accusatory, but the next reply to it does, and at that point the thread had already been brigaded anyway.

We'll keep in mind to manually add a sticky about the "fudged details" practice in the future on threads that look like they may end up controversial, and about topics most of our users will have little knowledge of. I'm not sure what else can reasonably be expected to have been done, but if you have any suggestions do let me know.