What does this even mean

KRATOM is a herbal extract that can make tea formulas that produce the same effect most opiates give with damn near ZERO withdraw symptoms. This guy sounds like he wants to bring to light that our government is pushing an anti-kratom narrative to keep people hooked on drugs/pain meds with no easy solution. I live in Ohio, America's herion capital and I have seen family and friends go through the worst of the worst. I can see the FDA censorship and demonization of the herb that OP is referring to and it breaks my heart. Another solid example of Big Pharma controlling the suffrage of millions of Americans. Heavily prescribe pain pills 1980-1990, introduce heroine for the opiate users who can't get it from their doctors anymore at half the price, then Kratom comes out. Some would go as far as to call it a miracle drug. Basically turns addiction kicking into easy street.

This is MUCH easier to understand.

I've been addicted to many substances and kratom is no joke. Multiple active alkaloids in this plant cause a very annoying long opiate withdrawal. Please don't pretend there is no withdrawal. I'd rather quit heroin again and have a majority of the symptoms gone in 5 days. Kratom has some odd serotonin action that I don't fully understand.

I say this because I started taking it because I ignorantly believed it was harmless.

You think the majority of symptoms of a terrible heroin addiction are over after 5 days?!?!?? Seriously? That fact alone makes me think you've never been addicted to any kind of opiate, ever.....5 days, lmao. More like 5 months until you feel even somewhat normal. Go spread that bullshit somewhere else.

Yes, after 5 days the acute withdrawal eased up. Even the post acute withdrawal wasn't that bad compared to benzos or alcohol. For several months I was emotionally sensitive but it was manageable. My restless legs never went away though..

Yeah you must have a had a nasty addiction to hydro 5s, or Tramadol or someshit like that. After 5 days off of oxy, fent or heroin you would still be shitting/puking your guts out after 5 days.

Google how long tramadol withdrawal is because it is similar to SNRI's. Kratom is surprisingly similar too, for me kratom withdrawal wasn't acutely painful but the depression and low energy lasted for many months. Heroin detox was very shitty the first 3 days then day 4 and 5 I started feeling physically better. Drugs fucked my life so I did my best to understand them.

Ok, fair point. I'm in the same boat as you. Opiates completely took everything from me around 2008-2010 and I'm still working to get my life back to pre-addiction levels. I am scared that my brain has been permanently damaged. All my emotions seem to have been extremely dulled, save for the crippling depression and anxiety that comes with acute withdrawal and PAWS.

It can take 6 months to a year for your brain to start producing the chemicals again that opiates stopped it from producing. If you're really on opiates. Hydrocodones and weak shot is less time since it's so weak. Been battling opes since 07. Kratom is the only thing keeping me off of them and I'd much rather deal with kratom wd than a real wd.

I agree with you. Kratom can be habit forming, but the two main drugs commonly used to get off opiates, methadone and buprenorphine, have insanely long withdrawal timelines, and worse withdrawals than things like oxy...blows my mind how they push this shit on people, and it blows it even more how high of a dosage doctors put people on, and how long they try to keep you on it...years in many cases. So many people are stuck and cant kick, and regret ever getting on these long term maintenance drugs.

Here's a story from my personal experience. I have had 3 major operations on my spine since I hurt myself in Iraq whilst in the military. Due to that I have been in terrible pain for the past 15 years. The last pain doc I was at had no prblem prescribing me 180 30mg roxicodone and 90 hydromorphone a month....mind you I thought I needed all this, and took it all (and more) every month. Then, all this opiate craze stuff hits and my doc gets busted. The next doc visit I am completely cut off of every opiate and pretty much told I was on my own.

That led to all kinds of bad decisions on my part. Buying/selling on the street.... heroin, the whole nine. Finally decided to go to the methadone clinic....which probably saved my life. Now I take Suboxone, and will be completely off a opiates in the next year.

I absolutely regret ever taking that first Percocet the doctor gave me. These horrible substances nearly killed me, and have actually killed too many of my friends/family than I want to think about. This shit is a scourge on our society and is affecting every race/age group and demographic. Fuck Big Pharma!

I’m sorry you had to go through that. I’m glad you are sharing your story as many people trust doctors blindly when they should always be cautious about whatever they are ingesting.

I would have no idea of the dangers of opiate pharmaceuticals if it weren’t for people like you sharing their experiences. Agreed, fuck big pharma!!

Thank you. My story is no different than millions of other people out there. It's just that most of the stories will never be heard. There is such a stigma around addictiom that most will never seek the help they need.I had a child 2 years ago and told myself I would never go down that path again for my family. It is a sickness and needs to be treated as such. Once it sets hold people become completely different, shells of their former selves. It literally changes your brain chemistry so that nothing in life is more important than that flood of opiates to the receptors in the brain.

yes - I was harmed by anti-psychotics - metabolism is gone - personality too - dreams in gutter

I wish it was 5 days! Physical wd's dont stop for at least a month and it's about 5 or 6 months before the depression subsides and the constant fatigue and body aches ends. 5 fucking days. I dont think people would have such a hard time quitting if it only lasted 5 days. Gtfo 5 fucking days. Maybe coming off hydrocodones 😂

Thank you! At least someone else here is based in reality! People spouting 5 days have obviously NEVER come off of a high powered opiate like oxycodone or heroin.

I've done every opiate. Been to prison over them. I've battled my addiction my whole life so I studied it and what they do to your body. They shut down so many chemical productions. That shot can't bounce back in 5 days. Your brain has to rewire and that is a process. I hate seeing misinformation about opiates. Hearing 5 day withdrawals vs 5 months can help to keep some people from going down that road. 5 fucking days. Still can't get over that. I fucking wish.

Me too bro, I tried cold turkey from H cut with fent and after 5 days I had to be rushed to the ER due to dehydration and lack of eating any food as I had not even hardly been able to keep water down without vomiting. 5 days....lmfao. That's just another propaganda lie probably created by the phara industry to downplay the absolute horror of opiate withdrawal. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Fuck no, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, except maybe meth heads that talk about withdrawing, so they will know what wd is. Kratom was such a life saver the last time I quit. Before that i got ahold of some gabapentin, it helped a bit too. I lose tons of weight coming off, can't get off the toilet, can barely walk, severely depressed, can't sleep for at least a month. Then the depression gets super pumped to fuck your life right up for awhile. Best high but damn it comes at a high price. That fent will fucking kill you. I've never od'd with over 10 years of banging. Snorted 3 bumps of the fent shit. Fucking od'd, fortunately I was found quickly. Still blows me away.

Omg, I didn't think many people knew about gabapentin for opiate withdrawal. That shit is amazing!!!! I figured it out on accident. I believe gabapentin is the single best drug to use to come off of opiates. It's completely eliminated all my withdrawal symptoms.

My brother just OD'd on herion mixed with fent just last week. Luckily he had a narcan shot nearby, but I'm convinced he will not be with is much longer. That grey death is here and it's devestating. By bro takes 3 inch lines of that shit, when I little key bump is enough to kill someone with a small tolerance. I'm worried I will be attending another funeral for someone I love very soon.

what do you know about recovery from anti-psychotic injury?

I don't but I'm curious. Is that brain damage from anti psychotic drugs??? Sorry my knowledge is limited to mostly opiates.

Yes it is, you will find idiots claiming that people who are on the stuff are damaged because of "mental illness" but they are just torturing people and causing brain volume loss, fucked metabolism, loss of personality, severe akathisia, can't orient, no thoughts, your ruined. People are forced to take this stuff even though un law says you can't force anyone to take stuff. Why aren't people forced to do chemo-therapy? Doesn't matter because the drugs ruin you. Humans are naturally paranoid and when you can't think at all cuz your prefrontal cortex is ruined they say you are doing better. Same people who to ect and ruin brains. Shocking. Torture, would not wish this upon anybody but the drs and people who forced this on me. how can you detain a non-criminal. no i was not suicidal(still should't be a reason). no i did not threaten anyone. They exptrapulated that I was a danger to self/others because they said i was having delusions which could not be even proven were delusions. Huge loophol going on rn with non-criminals getting detained and poisoned. yes i went to court yes i lost. yes you can be detained without due process. i wouldnt even care if they detained you if they couldnt force drugs in you.

I started looking into it after you asked. I think more people are claiming it is shrinking people's brains and destroying cells. I guess they tested some on a monkey and found shrinkage in it's brain. Only helpful thing I found was QUIT taking them now. Like I said I don't know anything about this besides what I have been reading, but the human brain is pretty intricate and capable of rewiring after foreign substances are removed. I don't know if this applies to anti-psychotics, but I definately wouldn't continue putting them in there. I'm sorry that you had to go through, that sounds absolutely horrible. Hopefully enough people come forward, and they continue doing studies that prove how dangerous it is so it can stop being done in the future. I can't imagine what you are going through. I hope karma comes for those who did that to you. As cheesy as it sounds meditation can help. If you're able to sit still and focus for even 5 minutes everyday it may offer a small piece of relief.

good man- luckily the severe panic has died down but I get really upset thinking about how my life is unrecognizable, i used to be so alpha and proud of my physique and proud of my personality, and now because of an unbelievably evil system I am a shell of a different being who I hate. I got some really good advice from a guy on ss to not expect people to understand your death wish but it is still really hard when your parents are living a false reality that states i will be back to normal. I won't. All I care about is not fucking up and leaving my self paralyzed or unable to leave this world. I have no use for all my prior interests. I don't know how to organize the people i know who are against it to help bring change. Pharma is so big so the only affordable way to really bring change would be to get public opinion on our side because we don't have enough money to bring them down with court even though un law is on our side. Maybe I'll make a video that shows people testifying how it is so bad. Would have rather lost an entire arm. The only way i don't break out into anger at my parents for being so non-understanding of what i want is that i could be sent back and i want to make sure i can die. You want me to not kms, walk a mile in my shoes, no dopamine is terrible, no self is terrible. We all know non-criminal detainment is freudian bullshit.

It needs to be brought to the public. I had no clue this happened. I have friends and family on seroquel and some other stuff I dont know the name too. The public doesn't know and once they do I think people will really against it. I'll definitely be telling everyone I know to get the fuck off it. I'm so sorry. Would 5htp help with the lack of serotonin? I used to use it when I took far too much MDMA and it helped. Again not sure if it would help in your case. You can usually get it at walmart.

Hm maybe ill try it. the "med" stays in your system for over a year with a 39 day halflife. the "dr" who told me to get the injection didn't even know the halflife was that long lol gives you an idea how blindly they follow the dsm religion. If you think about it the correct way, yes people will see its wrong, but I think a very large percentage of people are brainwashed into thinking all these people "need help" - it's thought policing and if someone commits a crime detain them then! I think I would have to put together a very emotive film/ or short video to truly get to people. I think that public opinion is pretty scewed towards detaining non crims. I think it is worth pointing out: lots of propaganda currently meant to make us turn against each other. Creating a divide by making it main stream to look down on other people who are deemed "deranged" is like modern day eugenics. Another example is the two party divide and racial tensions and feminist opposite sex hating. Hilarious to me how obvious it is to me how psychiatry is to divide, also take guns, and make money off pharma sales. In russia they are using "mental health" to sack politically opposed people. We are just as vulnerable to that.

5 days? For heroin.. OK bud

I'm right there with you. taking breaks from kratom has no effect on me and I use a lot, but I am not okay without coffee or cigarettes.

produce the same effect most opiates give

It doesn't produce the same effect as opiates, its intoxicating effects are on par with strong coffee.

At higher doses it's similar to a 5mg-10mg perc. Which is nothing, ex-heroin addict here. I mainly used kratom to get of heroin...Helped with the withdrawals, wasn't super addicting like Suboxones and Methadone.

Misinformation. Stop spreading fucking lies bro. Can kratom be useful? Sure. But are there no withdrawals? You are out of your mind.

Kratom has withdrawals, yes. Are they comparable to actual opiates? Fuck no. Kratom isn't enjoyable to do, nor does it give you any semblance of a recreational high. Kratom is certainly an opioid agonist, but differs immensely from actual opiates and opioids in two critically important ways:

1. it is not euphoric
2. it does not cause respiratory depression, ergo it cannot kill you

1 is false. #2 I can agree with.

I've withdrawn from different opiates, it is comparable to hydocodone. False statements.

Comparatively, it isn't. It's maybe twice as euphoric as a cup of coffee with a big 5g dose, and although it is mood elevating, thats more a side effect of the subtle motivationation boost.

If you take a decent amount of kratom (I'm talking like 10 grams, yes grams.) (see this guide on how to properly take kratom http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html

The buzz is similar to a cup of coffee + 10mb perc buzz.

lord almighty, i can't take anymore than about 6 grams at a time. makes me sick. But yeah, there's definitely a warmth to larger doses, and if you take the time to make tea with it, the potency can seem to be x2/x3 just the powdered leaf. But it's the low doses that are the most interesting to me. If you take 2-4g, you'll get an extremely subtle but effective painkilling effect, but you'll also feel like you took a caffeine pill. See in high doses, 7g+, it's very relaxing and sedative, but the low doses act as a stimulant. Kratom is a strange and amazing thing.

I've made tea, capsules, just throwing grams back and chugging grape juice. Good stuff. Just don't abuse it. It's not coffee. Not every day

PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF of respiratory depression. Get so sick of this BS with no sources.... EVEN the federal government admits that Kratom doesn't cause respiratory depression by itself:

Despite increasing reports and studies on Kratom, to our knowledge, respiratory depression or significant opioid toxic syndrome have not been reported as the toxicity from Kratom.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425236/

There have been cases of respiratory depression when Kratom is combined with alcohol, benzodiazepines, and other opioids. These interactions can be unpredictable and are influenced by many factors. If you're just taking Kratom, you'll be fine.

He said he agrees with you about it not causing respiratory depression. He said what is false is that it does not cause euphoria.

That is totally subjective

I'm pointing out what the person said. You said (1) and (2). They responded that (1) is false and (2) is true. You responded to them as if they said the opposite.

Kratom is an actual opiate.

Wrong

I think you'll have to do a little better than that to overturn all the scientific literature on this.

You might be confusing opioids with opiates.

They're overlapping categories.

Yeah, this is a circle inside of a bigger circle. Opiates at derived specifically from opium though, and opioids are synthetic & any molecule that works on opioid receptors. So Opiates are Opioids, but not necessarily vise versa.

They are not neatly terms with fixed definitions. For some opiates are strictly organic compounds from a poppy, meaning that Kratom would be an opioid just like heroin. In other cases opiates and opioids completely overlap and have no difference. This is among the scientific and medical community that they have no fixed definition.

Either way, what actual difference would it being an opioid rather than opiate mean? It's still doing the same exact thing, the only possible question is the species of plant it comes from and whether it is synthetic or natural.

Usually the scientific and medical communities are more precise in their language, but seriously i can't find much that doesn't support my claims. I dislike calling kratom an opiate because to most people i've ever known, an opiate is something directly from opium poppies, and thus carries all the negative baggage of the opium trade. If you like i can provide you 20+ more link supporting my claim. Can you link me to where you are getting your information?

There are plenty of sources, just Google "Kratom opiate" or "Kratom opioid." I understand why people want to disassociate Kratom from other opiates and opioids, as it seems to be much less harmful. However, if we go with a "when I use a word it means precisely what I want it to mean" type of thing, then we're just lying.

Kratom opiate

did you google that yourself? because every result has some sort of headline like "kratom declared an opioid"

Opiate and opioid don't necessarily have fixed definitions. Even so, what would your point be? Do you think it being an opioid means it doesn't do anything?

In some definitions the only opiates are those that are natural and come from the poppy plant. This means that poppy alkaloids are opiates, but Kratom and Heroin are opioids.

In others, opiate vs opioid is natural vs synthetic. Poppy and Kratom are opiates and Heroin is an opioid.

In other definition opiates and opioids are synonyms.

So the questions are:

which definition of opiate and opioid are you using? and what difference does it actually make as classifying one way or the other?

Actually you will, you havent provided any sources.

What sources do you want? I mean look up the plant and that's what it is. Do you want me to prove reddit is a website too?

Because you said so.. Nice argument

There wasn't an argument, I was just pointing out what something is.

Your absolutely dead wrong. FDA talking points

You're.. And I am not because I have vast experience with kratom. Stop the bs

"hence, opiate withdrawal"

Total conjecture. Provide links to science before you start spreading your fake BS. FDA shill

r/quittingkratom per your reference. I am not an FDA shill you fucking idiot. I am someone that fell for the bullshit people like you spread on the internet, and paid dearly for it.

Do you recognize the unintentional harm you are causing? Spread truth and let people make their own decisions. What you're doing is spreading fucking lies, the SAME EXACT thing people here are trying to avoid.

Simply your opinion, which is not in line with most Kratom users. Sorry you did not take more responsibility for your own actions on what you put in your body. It is people like you who blame your lack of self control on plants and ruin it for everyone else. Do you realize the harm you are causing by spewing your reefer madness nonsense. your science is a quitting kratom lol, I linked to the science.

Kratom is a great drug, but people are willing to push and buy into propaganda about it being harmless because they're afraid saying anything else will make it illegal.

Kratom can have negative effects. Kratom can have withdrawal. Kratom is an opiate.

Source: I do opiates including Kratom.

Kratom is not an "opiate". It does not fit the definition.

What are you talking about? WTF do you think it is?

It is a plant, seriously are you this dense

Yes, it's a plant which contains opiate alkaloids. I mean by your definition the poppy is not an opiate, it's a plant that contains opiate alkaloids. Find if you want to be pedantic.

Let's finish being pedantic.

Kratom is a plant that contains opiate alkaloids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa

Dr. Henningfield, PhD called kratom a non- opioid.

“My team and I reviewed the medical literature to determine the potential for abuse of kratom,” Henningfield said. “It’s a natural substance, a non-opioid that provides an alerting effect in low doses and a mild opiate-like effect in higher doses. Again, the best comparison is caffeine. Some people may come to depend on it for its effects, but it doesn’t pose a real danger of addiction or other severe adverse effects.” https://www.wci360.com/news/article/kratom-banned-in-wisconsin

Obviously more well-controlled clinical trials are needed but in Update on the Pharmacology and Legal Status of Kratom Dr. Walter C. Prozialeck, PhD, stated "strong evidence demonstrates that the effects of kratom are actually quite different from those of classic opioids...Importantly, even at very high doses, kratom does not depress respiration...recent studies indicate that even though the mitragynines can interact with opioid receptors, their molecular actions are different from those of opioids...Based on all of the evidence, it is clear that kratom and its mitragynine constituents are not opioids and that they should not be classified as such."

Your link is broken and your doctor is wrong.

Here start here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa

Start with wikipedia? LOL https://speciosa.org/8-factor-analysis-of-kratom-performed-by-dr-hennigfield-submitted-the-deafda/

I have no problem with Kratom, but it contains opiate alkaloids.

claim a tree leaf is an opiate

What are you trying to say here? Do you think the poppy does not contain opiate alkaloids?

What is the point you are trying to make here?

So do I, and I never have withdrawal symptoms from it. And I've had a lot of opiates, they are not comparable.

same effect most opiates

It is an opioid, with many of the same hazards as other opioids.

The worst "hazard" is withdrawal, which you can avoid with a dose schedule and a max daily dose of 10 grams. You can't smoke it, you can't shoot it, and it sure doesn't taste good. It takes a lot of work to abuse.

But here's the most important thing about kratom: it does not cause respiratory depression. You know, the "hazard" that kills you?

It can cause respiratory issues just like any opioid, it's just harder because the concentration of opioids is lower. The FDA has documented 36 cases of death associated with kratom, so clearly it's possible.

I don't have anything against kratom in particular; this is the first I've heard of it. It sounds like it has potential. However, a lot of people in our society equate "natural" with safety, ignoring (or not knowing) that they're still consuming an opioid. When something is perceived as completely safe, it's easier to justify abusing it.

No, they have 36 deaths where kratom was found in the their system. One of those "kratom associated" deaths is a fucking murder victim for fucks sake. Not a single one is directly attributable. Anything put out by the FDA or the .gov is absolute propaganda, seriously.

The studies have shown it doesn't cause respiratory depression, albeit there have only been a few, but they're empirical. Kratom has some strange properties. But regardless, you are right. Kratom is a drug and should be considered with care. But, it is objectively safer and can be as effective as it's pharma counterparts.

I learned about it about 6 years ago, thought it was a scam honestly. It ended up basically saving my life, and i've been clean for more than 5 years now.

None of this is true.

funfact! Cannabis itself is quasiopioid, because THC itself is a mu opioid receptor agonist.

produce the same effect most opiates give with damn near ZERO withdraw symptoms.

Kratom is an opiate. If you do an opiate you won't have withdrawal symptoms from opiates.

Source: I do Opiates, including Kratom.

Just for clarity, as a Kratom user, it doesn't have near the recreational or addiction potential of actual opiates. It has a lot of medical applications for those with chronic pain or frequent muscle cramping. I take it most days of the week to help with my IBS, I haven't experienced withdrawals (I do take a lower dose than most though). For some people it can help with insomnia or acute anxiety.

I agree. I have these ridiculous electric shock sensations from a spine surgery 10 years ago. I was taking lyrica but really not doing well. My memory was shot, I was constantly spaced out, so I quit after 6 months. The next drug, Gabapentin, was even worse, so I just stopped going to the doctor. I had a feeling this was going to escalate to the point where I did nothing but drool and sleep.

Kratom isn't on a par with the prescription drugs, and that is why I take it. I can keep my pain at bay which helps me maintain my sanity without the spaced out feeling and the memory loss. I have run out and while I am aware I am not taking it I am no worse for wear, I just hurt more.

I'm glad it's been able to help you, I wish you the best :)

If you aren't a member of /r/Kratom you should pop over and maybe be a part of our efforts to keep this wonderful plant available to those who need it.

I understand the reasoning, but /r/kratom has been known to ban posts from users reporting side effects from Kratom.

I don't know anything about that but have personally always promoted open and honest discource. Folks do tend to mislead the new guys. Thanks for the heads up.

You're not going to see the posts they ban. /r/kratomrecovery has a number of people noting it though. Search that subreddit for "seizure"

I've been addicted to many substances and kratom is no joke. Multiple active alkaloids in this plant cause a very annoying long opiate withdrawal. Please don't pretend there is no withdrawal. I'd rather quit heroin again and have a majority of the symptoms gone in 5 days. Kratom has some odd serotonin action that I don't fully understand.

I say this because I started taking it because I ignorantly believed it was harmless.

The government definitely wants you on drugs that numb you, dumb you, break you, bankrupt you, etc. But only if they can sell you said drugs.

https://pastebin.com/6MW6eWNH

That’s why they keep dumping lithium on us! You’re hooked and you don’t even know it.

What ? Where ? And how is lithium addicting ?

You think all that haze emanating from jets is just “water vapor” don’t you?

Lithium is not addictive in the the traditional sense in that it’s symptoms are not euphoric. It does however pose problems during withdrawal.

They are keeping people sedate.

But normal people can take a lithium check and see that it's empty ? How many mg/day are we talking about ? Small amounts don't usually do much (benefits or side-effects).

It's not just in the skies -- it's in the tap water, in varying amounts.

''Hug me till you drug me, honey; Kiss me till I'm in a coma; Hug me, honey, snuggly bunny; Love's as good as soma."

A sign ain't gonna do anything.. (and I don't even like kratom) but I'll sign petitions to keep it legal... It's leaves from a fucking tree for fucks sakes!

You in Ohio lol? I travel all over for work and that's where I found the fent and found out about gabapentin. I found it on accident too lol. They were a lifesaver working outside in subzero temps while sick. I'm sorry about your bro. I've lost so many people to opes. It's sad that almost nothing can make an addict quit for good. Where did he get the narcan shot if you dont mind me asking. That would be helpful. Gabapentin and muscle relaxers are a life saver. I just prefer kratom, it helps me more with the fatigue and body aches. So nice talking to someone who knows their shit. Very rare

Just FYI, I was pleasantly surprised to see this post was about Kratom. But only because I just randomly clicked. If you want to attract more people who might be sympathetic to the cause, you might want to explicitly mention Kratom in the headline.

Government wants all to hooked up on meds.

Q :How do we fight it?

A : By smoking more drugs.

Why do users here praise marijuana and substances like kratom,hemp as wonder drugs.

They are not good for mental or physical health. The real conspiracy is thousands of articles everyday claiming their benefits and how you should use them. Stop using them and be productive.

But how is that profitable?

how do bananas work?

You need to get over the whole "it's a plant" bullshit. There are plenty of plants that if ingested will kill you. There are plenty that are drugs: cocaine and heroin are just concentrated and purified plants, not some magical other.

Try eating a yew berry and get back to me on whether or not plants are fine.

Kratom can have its benefits and has medicinal value. There is no doubt about that. It is also "safer" in terms of a very high LD50. Haven't heard of one legit overdose. That being said...

There is a lot of misinformation about kratom. I was addicted on it for 3-4 years. I also have been addicted to multiple opiates. I just want to put this out as a warning. Kratom is no joke to come off of. Yea, the physical withdrawal isn't as bad as other opiates. But there is post acute withdrawal, there is some weird mechanisms at play that make the withdrawal very very long and drawn out. I also suspect is messes with hormones as there are multiple reports of hair loss. libido issues, etc. If anyone asks me if they should try kratom, it is always a no. Of course, I was addicted and that is my fault. But I would not want anyone to go through that shit.

If you are unsure about kratom and the withdrawals, visit r/quittingkratom. You'll get a lot of information there and what to expect.

An FDA press release references "36 deaths associated with the use of kratom-containing products." It sounds like it's being marketed as "safe because it's natural", so some people aren't exercising proper precautions.

If you believe what the FDA is saying i have a bridge to sell you

I know this is /r/conspiracy and there's an intrinsic mistrust of government, but the press release is worth a read. It's very clear that they have not ruled out use of kratom, but are concerned about people using it without it being studied further. They are also concerned about insufficient quality and dose control. Think about it this way: if this was a newly developed drug, it would not be on the market because it has not had sufficient safety testing.

Hi again lol.

In the spirit of /r/conspiracy, I submit to you that at the behe$t of Big Pharma, the government has been pushing a concerted campaign to monopolize Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine by way of criminalizing and scheduling Kratom.

I mentioned before the small number of studies. It isn't lack of interest that makes that number small. The government has repeatedly denied research grants and funding requests for studies on kratom, making those few studies self-funded.

You mention a newly developed drug as an analogy, but two years ago when the DEA first tried to schedule kratom, a month or so before the announcement a drug company actually filed patents for a pill containing the derivatives Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine.

If that pill is as effective as a midrange dose of kratom, I could honestly see it replacing all but break-thru pain meds.

After everything the FDA has done around cannabis as medicine....actually, do you still believe the governments assertion that cannabis has no medicinal value?

The FDA has asserted nothing of the sort. It just hasn't been approved for a medical application with evidence that is to the FDA's satisfaction. No approved medical application =/= no medical value.

For the record, I voted in favor of marijuana legalization in my state, though I initially voted against it because the initiative was poorly written/structured. Better to wait another couple of years than to put in place a poorly constructed system that would be used as an example by marijuana opponents.

It's really not worth a read, because it is lies and misinformation. Those 36 deaths were debunked. "kratom related" does not mean those deaths were caused by it at all. It was just found in their systems with other far more dangerous substances, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was a lie too. I promise you they are not concerned about you or me or any of us.

They shut up about the deaths being debunked and like shills keep repeating the deaths stat. EVEN IF IT DID KILL 36 PEOPLE that makes it the safer than water.

I started losing my hair before taking kratom and it didn't make it any worse. If you were between 20-30 it was probably just natural.

Thanks for noting this. Everyone wants to think that Kratom is completely magical and safe. It's great, but it has side effects. Don't even get me started on Ibogaine.

This is surely true. People should only take things that mess with their natural system as a last resort. Plus, you have to add all the chemicals in the food and water...

OP is caught in specifics and imagining that 'this particular novel drug isn't a real drug', which is how the drug addiction epidemic has historically always advanced and morphed. Kratom is a drug.

The general statement "The State supports the spread and maintenance of drug addiction." is absolutely correct.

I’m not sure a sign on the lawn is going to accomplish anything, but agree that Kratom should not be made illegal. People will still find ways to obtain it, and there will be no quality control. In the midst of a heroin “epidemic” banning a substance that is keeping a lot of addicts out of the streets/off harder drugs is an awful idea. America’s war on drugs is a joke. Other countries that have decriminalised drugs(Portugal) have far less drug related problems than America. The big reason for the Kratom ban is that it’s currently not profitable for big pharma or the corporate cash cows. I don’t want some evil suit wearing mask faced puppeteers telling me what I can and cannot consume, and neither should any of you.

Government is trying to get people hooked on governmwnt.

If they can do it by controlling access to meds then sure.

Sounds a lot like the jokers peddling the 'weed is harmless' nonsense.

Oh yeah, weed is so dangerous.

It's not dangerous, but it's not harmless.

Every time I go to the doctor (which is not often) and they ask me to list my medications, they look at me like I'm crazy because I don't list any.

Being completely healthy is too suspicious apparently.

Maybe you look unhealthy

haha!

Around how old are you?

mid 30's

Same here. They're always asking if I have any pain or anxiety issues just so they can throw percocet and Xanax at me. It's fuckin disgusting.

Damn really?

My doc is reluctant to prescribe benzodiazepines. He always tries to push me selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitors and antihistamines (garbage).

Ultimately it comes to who is funding the government to ban these substances.

You'll find it is Big Pharma paying for lobbyists and politicians to make the laws for them.

lay off the kratom bro.

That's a ludicrous half life. A video would be good. Find others who are experiencing the same as you from all walks of life. Put it on social media I'm sure it won't take long to go viral. A lot of people are seeing the flaws in our government.

It's being censored on social media.

The war on Kratom has woken a lot of average joes up to the conspiracy world via the FDA & DEA putting out intentional now fully debunked false science and data on Kratom. I guess they say it has to effect you directly for many to understand.

If Kratom gets outlawed then big pharma will step in with a synthetic version that they can patent and control. That synthetic version is sure to be much more addictive.

big pharma will step in with a synthetic version

They already have oxycodone.

Oxy codone is heavily regulated and kinda has a bad rep right now due to the epidemic. Same with a lot of the other people opiods.

A few months ago when there was a threat for Kratom to be outlawed by Jeff Sessions I think and everybody was signing petitions and shit another story broke about a pahrma company that had secured the rights to sythesize or patent an ingredient from Kratom. Real interesting timing with all that. The gov backed down with their threats to ban Kratom but big pharma is still researching and developing a synthetic version afaik. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see another push to outlaw kratom once that new sythetic comes online. It will be sold to the medical community and the public as a new improved and less addictive substance like Oxy-Contin was a couple decade ago. Compare Oxy-Contin's potency and addictive potential to just raw opium goo that is cut straight from the poppy pod. The raw Opium is much less dangerous or addictive but we aren't allowed to grow it are we. Tptb will do the same thing with kratom if they get their way. Or they'll just leave it legal and do what they did with tobacco and put in additives that are addictive and sell it in a convenient package at a price low enough the average person won't consider worth their time or effort to source their own healthier version. I see a similar fate on the horizon for marijuana. Hope I'm wrong, but there is just too much money at stake.

I don't suppose I'd be against a little regulation for Kratom if it meant some sort of process was put in place to make sure the stuff coming in was clean of adulterants and pesticides and fertilizers but I don't see the government and big pharma being all that benevolent about it if history is to be our teacher.

Kratom users just need to get their heads around boilng the stuff to make sure you kill any e-coli. It's a fucking plant for Christ sake. I don't need the government or big pharma to hold my hand and I can already get enough booze, cigarettes and cough medicine at the corner store to kill an elephant so other than greed I don't see any problem leaving an all natural gift from nature to the people.

I was just noting that they already have a synethic opioid.

Aye, they package it together with an SSRI and call it Tramadol (at least that's what they call it here in the UK.) Nasty stuff that is, really nasty stuff.

I don't think Tramadol is an opiod packaged with an ssri. Afaik it's an Opiod that happens to have some ssri or snri (not sure which) properties to it. Depending on ones body chemistry it can be used as an anti-depressant to people who respond atypically to conventional anti-depressants. As a pain killer it has lower addiction potential than other comparable sythetics. As an anti-depressant it may have a higher addiction potential but has less severe withdrawal symptoms than a lot of the more typical anti-depressants. The withdrawal symptoms are like a mild opiod which doesn't typically necessitate the long taper that anti-depressants do. You might get a little dope sick coming off Tramadol but you won't have as much a risk for a psychotic break or total mental relapse into depression and suicide if you don't taper just right like you would on more typical anti-depressants. It's actually a really great drug for a select few people who don't respond to typical anti-depressants. Nice not to have to have the long work-up and taper down and the withdrawal symptoms of regular anti-depressants. If you are one of those people who has an injury and associated depression, you might get your fix with just that one drug rather than go the route of having an anti-depressant and a more typical opiod and all the hazzards that come with those. It's actually too bad it got rescheduled in with the rest of the opiods a few years ago here in the states. With the bad rap Opiods are getting and as toxic as anti-depressants can be, Tramadol had great potential it may never realize. I think it would be a great alternative for a lot of combat veterans in particular and maybe a great taper down drug for conventional opiod addicts. As with anything, people's personal body chemistry makes all the difference in the world with things like this. It's too bad that it's one more tool in the tool box that is getting lumped in with the rest of the Opiod family by people that get it prescribed to them and have a negative experience. For people with genuine pain, there is no perfect drug. Pain killers are inherently addictive. If someone has an injury and they want to be functional there will always be a give and take with Opiods.

Sry, I tend to get lost in my rants. But yeah they have a lot of synthetic opiods.

let's get hooked on weed instead, it will make the world a better place

where can i get seeds?

Me too bro, I tried cold turkey from H cut with fent and after 5 days I had to be rushed to the ER due to dehydration and lack of eating any food as I had not even hardly been able to keep water down without vomiting. 5 days....lmfao. That's just another propaganda lie probably created by the phara industry to downplay the absolute horror of opiate withdrawal. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

what do you know about recovery from anti-psychotic injury?

Yes, it's a plant which contains opiate alkaloids. I mean by your definition the poppy is not an opiate, it's a plant that contains opiate alkaloids. Find if you want to be pedantic.

Let's finish being pedantic.

Kratom is a plant that contains opiate alkaloids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa