You don’t have to defend things if it’s illegal to question them

Because questioning the narrative is dangerous business. It could lead to thoughts which are even more dangerous. Wouldn't want you (collective you) to think to hard and hurt yourself.

To find out who rules over you, figure out who you are not allowed to criticize.

-Neo-Nazi pedophile, Kevin Strom

It is originally Voltaire...but of course history gets re-written!

It's not originally Voltaire.

Few versions of the quote appear online before 2012. Appears to be a gloss of a statement by Kevin Strom, an American Neo-Nazi activist. Self-attributed here in a passage doubting the veracity of the Holocaust: ‘By the way, may I remind you that in some nations of the West, it is actually illegal to doubt Jewish lies like these and one can be fined and imprisoned for doing so. That brings to mind the maxim that I stated several years ago: If you want to know the identity of the real rulers of your society, merely ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?’ – National Vanguard, “Jewish Truth (and Jewish Jokes)”, 1/6/2011

-From Voltaire's wiki in the MIS-ATTRIBUTED QUOTES section.

It was always Voltaire until recently. You are telling me NOBODY in history said something similar to that...

And now it is some neo-Nazi guy?

Give me a fucking break.

This is how they rewrite history (1984)

Are you actually not even reading that? It was never Voltaire until recently some troll re branded it ala Lincoln internet quote on the internet. The FIRST mention of Voltaire saying that is in 2012. The dude is one of the fathers of modern philosophy with god only knows how many academia man hours spent pouring over everything he said to anyone and whatever he wrote. There is no godly way that Voltaire said that, it doesn't even match his tone or the majority of his belief system thesis.

Even if it was not Voltaire the first instance in history was likely not this Neo Nazi guy either.

Basically they are trying to associate questioning anything with being a Neo Nazi.

Even if it was not Voltaire

But it was...

the first instance in history was likely not

Dismissing facts for feelings?

The guy is saying it was a Neo Nazi guy. Did you read the convo?

Yeah, and you're saying it wasn't based on nothing

Ok, whatever. Ya'll shills can all downvote me. I do not care!!

You said it was always Voltaire and that history is being rewritten - these are false statements. You’re quoting a Nazi. That’s the only thing happening here.

And then I explained what I meant. Damn.

You know it is a sh*ll because free discussion = you are automatically a Neo Nazi.

You know that most of Voltaire’s stuff has been translated into English and in the public domain, right? You can check for yourself! And you won’t find it, because its not there.

Do you get my argument?

1) Even if he did not say it...it is likely somebody famous said something like that before some freak neo Nazi.

2) They are purposely tying the quote to a Neo Nazi so people think the quote is bad.

God this sub is loaded with shills now. I will pray about it.

Cool story, bro.

K

Every single quote I try to attribute is murky as shit. I think I'm done trying altogether.

I think the internet really fouled things up in that regard haha

Eh I blame stupid-people more than anything.

I think the quote stands up no matter who it's attributed to. It's the quote itself, not who said it, that matters.

"I mean, it was a nazi pedophile, but it's still a good quote."

No, fuck that shit.

Ok. But is he wrong?

I guess we better not question who it is we cannot question or else we might be seen to be aligned with a neo-nazi pedophile?

Will we have to paraphrase it?

I mean, doesn't it basically apply to all dictatorships?

So, how can we explain this method of discerning one's operating environment without being associated with him?

It's no wonder people become suspicious. It's a good move in a hypothetical game of mass social engineering mind chess. However, it appears to be true. If it didn't, it wouldn't work, of course. I have no evidence to contest or contrast with their research into the quote. I just find that a funny coincidence. So many other kinds of people could have said it and it would have been safer to use. How unfortunate.

Certainly you must prefer Voltaire.

It probably was originally Voltaire, but references were scrubbed in order to discredit the meaning of the quote. And regardless of who first said it, its true.

Ishmael, take care of this one.

THE FUCKING HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. Law or no IT HAPPENED.

Why are you yelling?

Because I hate these laws. But they only get enacted when outright lies and propaganda are used to manipulate the masses.

Thanks for drilling it in once more

we need proooooof

The post is about the laws though, and the anti-Semitism/holocaust denial laws are a really stupid idea.

I understand what the post is about. It gets frustrating when, as someone who believes in the idea of free speech and free thought, is force to defend horrible laws. However out right lies which are being used to manipulate people are the reason these laws pop up.

If you support those laws you aren't in favor of free speech, full stop. It's not like its some epidemic and 50% of the population doesn't believe in the holocaust. It's such a small segment of the population to start throwing people in jail for speech over.

Lol spaz harder

Rule 6.

What are those countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

It seems to me something of a scandal that it is even necessary to debate these issues two centuries after Voltaire defended the right of free expression for views he detested. It is a poor service to the memory of the victims of the holocaust to adopt a central doctrine of their murderers.[14]

Noam Chomsky

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 177591}

Let no one doubt that Wikipedia is heavily monitored, edited and shaped to defend and promote the Zionist Narrative.

Typically, countries with laws against Holocaust denial have other limitations on freedom of speech, such as laws against hate speech, so it's not like they're making a super-special exception for Holocaust denial.

Beyond that point, though, I think one of the driving factors is that those laws came into place as a direct attempt to prevent fascism from ever spreading again in Europe. To deny the fascist's greatest horror is to start clearing the path toward fascism becoming acceptable again.

Like it or not, some people are simply extremely susceptible to believing very far-fetched things, no matter how much evidence you show them to the contrary. These people tend to get an idea in their head (i.e., the Holocaust never happened), and stick with that idea no matter what. They cherry pick evidence to support their claims, ignore the holes in their argument, and try to tell anyone and everyone who will listen that their flawed way of thinking is actually the truth.

In many cases, like the belief that the moon landing was a hoax, or that chemtrails are a real thing, or that the earth is flat, it doesn't make that much of a difference. People spread these bizarre, unsupported theories, and the world pretty much goes on as it always has. These people may convince others of their beliefs, but it's of little consequence to society, really. Holocaust denial kind of represents something different, though. As I mentioned, the first step in clearing a path for the return of fascism is to deny the fascist's biggest crime. I think that many of the continental powers of Europe were so concerned with the revival of the Nazis that they decided to make an effort to stop people from taking that first step.

Were those countries making the right move there? You could debate either side. You could say that by trying so hard to not allow the fascists to come back to power, they were acting kind of fascistic themselves in denying people a bit of their right to free speech. But that's about the worst you could reasonably say about them. I don't think you could reasonably say that Holocaust denial laws are part of some massive cover-up. There simply isn't evidence to support that claim.

Like it or not, some people are simply extremely susceptible to believing very far-fetched things

It's like a seatbelt law, but for fascism!

Fascism is the only ideology that wasn't infiltrated and corrupted by the Jews. This is why they fear it so much.

That's...a really dumb statement. Did the Jews infiltrate monarchism?

Yes. Via Usury.

I don't really know enough about it to have an opinion, but some historians say that the number of Jews killed was far lower than 6 million (500,000 - 2 million). They allege that the figure was changed for political purposes. Again, I have no idea whether or not this is true. But I've read about historians in Europe going to jail for making this argument

All you have to do is look at the 1933, and 1947 census to know something aint right about the "official" casualties.

Which census numbers, specifically?

Before and after the “Holocaust”: Jewish population numbers in 1933 and 1948

Boy, it's almost like there are other counties outside of central Europe where Jewish people live. But hey, dont let logic get in your way.

So there were roughly 6 million births between 1933 and 1948?

Sorry but that is about as likely as a paper sun. But hey, don't let logic get in your way.

Statistically speaking, yes. Additionally, you have to account for the fact that they probably only counted the adults. So you could have several million people in that time period worldwide that are Jewish and come of age. But I guess all the first hand accounts, the pictures, the fact that the FUCKING CAMPS ARE STILL FUCKING THERE, is all bullshit right. Cuz they had photo shop in 1944

Please get deprogrammed.

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

There is no point on responding, sorry. All you will get is more links.

Yeah there is. Because fuckhead, neo Nazi pigs like yourself are far too common. You have no understanding of history what so ever. Go back to r/incel

Removed, rule 1. Only warning.

Ah, the old almanac nonsense which has been debunked thoroughly. Good to see holocaust denial is as predictable as always. I guess it has to be for someone to deny the most documented, thoroughly investigated genocide of all time.

Show me this debunked information you are talking about.

It's just been debunked thoroughly, take his word for it and stop asking hard questions.

It's in Wikipedia, with several sources. This has both the Almanac and the Red Cross bullshit explained, among several other crap pushed by Holocaust deniers.

You know Wikipedia is run by Jews right?

Feel free to follow the sources.

Same to you https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

The "sources" this site lists are... Not credible. There are dozens of official and/or academic sources in Wikipedia. If you choose to believe in random people who aren't historians or involved with the organizations they cite, it's on you. But then you'll have all the historians and organizations in the world telling you you're wrong.

Don't let give the Nazi any ground to stand on. All youre going to do is validate his ideology

Removed. Rule 1.

US is kinda unique with its 1st amendment. There might be other countries with similar laws, but idk offhand who they might be, and also not sure anyone takes it as seriously as we do.

Well, in Germany we're so paranoid of our past that pretty much everything related to nazis is illegal. Germany is afraid of being called racist or anti semitic, so we're putting on a show of how left leaning we are.

The reason ww2 even happened Hitler kicked the zionist bankers along with their nation enslaving fiat currency system out, enabling germany to rise to a economic powerhouse (this would've been catastrophic to the leeches had other countries followed suit, that would have been the end of their system of slavery and exploitation of nations.)

There was no systemic extermination of "inferior" races of any kind(that seems to be the zionist israel's mo) and yes people died that tends to happen during war(see u.s vs iraq supposedly over a million dead most of them civilians.)

If there were camps in which the primary purpose was to kill as many jews as possible, could it be that those were run by agents of the zionists? (zionists and average jews are not the same. Zionists are a group of parasites that have taken over judaism in orfer to further their global domination agenda.)

IF the previous things i said are true, well then hitler did nothing wrong.

How do you explain the mountain of first hand accounts from our own soldiers dealing with the camps.

They were paid ctr shills, get with the program bro

Do you mean explain away as in discredit those accounts? No need for that imo, im sure there were camps that had dead and dying people in them when the allied went there, does that prove that there was a systemic extermination that was sanctioned by hitler and the higherups i dont think so.

Just to clarify i never said that i know for a fact that what i said in my previous comment is the real truth and thats how it happened hence the big IF at the end, but the same can be said about the official mainstream story heralded as undeniable truth of how it all went down.

And the thousands of first hand accounts of the captives themselves explain how it worked. Watching the people around them being executed by the thousands? The structures built to dispose of the remains and do the execution in the first place? There is so so much.

Of those thousands i have personally seen none. I doubt there are thousands of survivors on video explaining those things. If you mean those intervieved by the allied troops in situ during and after their release from these camps, well those are even thou "official aka automaticly true" only written documents that can easily be exaggerated or plain false. Again not saying that is the case.

Its near impossible to know the absolute truth about anything unless you were personally experiencing it, and even then all experiences are subjective and memories fade and became less accurate on details as time goes by.

Hitler sucked fascism is fucked up, but so is communism, and you were right by essentially saying that the victors write the history books

The camps liberated by the Allies weren't "Death Camps," only the ones liberated by the Soviets were (supposedly). So how do you explain the accounts of our soldiers? Well the camps had obviously gone to shit with the supply lines being cut, what do you expect that they would find?

To everyone that replied to this please read Paul Rassinier. I’m not endorsing anything please, just go read and take your own conclusions on the matter.

Don't worry. They've come up with a backdoor workaround for the Constitution. Publically post that you are a Holocaust denier and see how long you have a job.

Interstingly being agnostic is probably enough - you don't need to deny it - just try saying you've never heard about it, that you don't have an opinion, that you're not interested in the matter, or that you haven't yet reached a conclusion.

I don't deny the Holocaust, although I think the numbers have been somewhat exaggerated. However, I despise the fact that they've created extralegal means of censorship.

Try saying that in the UK, where our laws define the denial that "six million jews" died in the holocaust as anti-semitism, which is illegal and can land you in court and prison.

The laws were not necessarily specific to Holocaust denial in the first place, but eventually they were catered to them because it became so widespread and became a threat to giving rise to a new (post-mortem Hitler-following) Nazi party within certain parts of the world.

It would have been the perfect cover so no one would ever question the Jews and everyone would always be on there side. If you even question the holocaust you get deemed a neo-nazi. What got me thinking about this was why did they indoctrinate us in middle school by having holocaust survivors come talk to us? Also in 8th grade we had a New York/DC trip where we spent most of are time at ground zero and the holocaust museum. I wonder why that is 🧐

I don’t know if you would say it’s ethical to have these laws, or having freedom freedom of speech, but it’s mostly to prevent it from happening again if holocaust denial happens the horror of places such as “dachau” and “Aushwitz” will be forgotten leading down a similar path, I’ve been to Dachau the holocaust happened, get over it denyalers

Funny, the truth doesnt need laws to protect it.

True, but ignorance like holocaust denial needs laws to stop it.

holocaust deniers don't say that it never happened, it's a stupid choice of words, we just don't believe in the official narrative, like the 6 million figure and the gas chambers. Jews were persecuted and put in camps to work, many died of typhus or other diseases, many died of hunger, some were executed. Why would you waste so much workforce by gassing them with a highly toxic gas? It doesn't make any sense.

Because hitler wanted revenge from being gassed by Jews in WWI

where did he ever said that? He said he'd exterminate the Jewish race from Europe if they managed to pull Germany into a world war, but he never mentioned revenge.

It’s theorized

You sure? https://codoh.com/library/document/2582/

Dachau wasent a Death Camp so why would it have something to mass execute people

They do have gas chambers tho I have seen them with my very eyes

I assume, but I do believe they are not used there, since unlike other chambers, the walls are not blue

True, but this isn’t what the post was about, it was about denial laws, which is in existence to prevent future genocides

Kim Ann Rocha, my genocide teacher, translates holocaust into “death by fire”

Definition translated to English “ 1. destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.

These laws exist because they protect lies from being exposed and banished by the truth. They exist because Zionists have infiltrated and subverted the legislative processes of these countries.

The same reason almost 50 US senators want to make boycotting Israel a felony.

https://www.thenation.com/article/nearly-50-senators-want-to-make-it-a-felony-to-boycott-israel/

At the same time, no other other mass murder denial is illegal anywhere. Communists killed over 100 million? Never tried before! It will work this time!

The only person I trust less than a nazi is a jew

Two versions. Either, they knew that as time passed people would become less and less shocked by the Holocaust. As each eye witness died there would be less engaging evidence. Eventually, so much time would pass that people will pop up and say it was a lie, or exaggerated or otherwise downplay the event.

Or, it was a hoax all along and now theyll bang you up if you say it was a crock of shit.

The one good thing about the Nazis though, they kept very good records of events. We know how many people went in and how many came out of those camps and there is a discrepancy of a few million. Also, the final solution is documented. The only question that has some doubt is whether Hitler knew.

Of course, it could all be bullshit but I personally believe it did happen. For me, the numbers are irrelevant. The fact is that back then, pretty much the whole world didn't like Jews. Germany was the one country they enjoyed freedom of trade etc. The fact that the Germans turned on the Jews was unthinkable. Most German Jews were the most proud Germans you could ever meet.

I think the first reason is the truth. It did happen, and nobody should downplay it. Yes, I do believe the Jewish homeland is Israel. Sorry if that pisses people off.

These laws are a modern expression of lèse-majesté.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté

Because people who deny genocides are bound to repeat them.

While I don't agree with banning speech, it was perhaps a necessary thing to do after the war ended to make sure it never happens again.

Every xenophobic nation denies it's own wrongdoings, which gives them a clean slate to commit further atrocities in the future and also deny those.

This wasn't the first atrocity that Germans did, they have been committing evil things since the 1200's, and they always forgot about it.

History is being rewritten, like Orwell predicted, and look now many antisemites are trying to deny the Holocaust again.

This should stop, if we want to have a free society in the future. Everyone has to embrace their dark pasts and find out ways to make up for those evil things. That is the only way to ensure bad things don't happen in the future.

There is a reason people don't deny slavery in America. They had to make an "anti-semitic" law because of the number of people that question the validity of the holocaust. For the people that say it's justified as a deterrent for repeating history just remember what happens when a government censors your free speech. It's not good and should be unacceptable. If you don't want to repeat the bad aspects of human history like dictatorships and oppressive governments we should stand against any law that doesn't allow something to be questioned.

I believe the main purpose of the holocaust was to create a victim, because once you’re a victim you can get away with doing anything.

All you have to do is look at the 1933, and 1947 census to know something aint right about the "official" casualties.

The "sources" this site lists are... Not credible. There are dozens of official and/or academic sources in Wikipedia. If you choose to believe in random people who aren't historians or involved with the organizations they cite, it's on you. But then you'll have all the historians and organizations in the world telling you you're wrong.