Who Am I? Who Are You?
1 2018-05-06 by SadSoggySandwich
Hello all, I am new to reddit, ( I posted this originally in the philosophy thread) not sure if this belongs here but I feel like people on this thread can have an interesting discussion on this topic.
I'd like to have a discussion about some ideas that I have. If someone can link me to a philosopher or someone who discusses similar things that would be appreciated. This is what I have been thinking about a lot recently:
- Who am I?
- Who are you?
I'll start with 1. Who am I? At this point in my life, I don't know who I am. I know what I like in regards to music, food, etc. My society has 'taught' me what to believe in regards to many things. If I was raised differently I'd be a different 'person'. If I grew up in a different culture I would be different.
So, what makes me, me? At this point, I do not know what my actual 'self' is. I feel like I am just a molded ball of clay that was made from others. I don't feel like an individual. I feel like I am just molded. So that leaves me with a few different questions. Like what is my soul? Who am I really? How do I figure this out? I feel lost.
- Who are you? I do not know much about you but I can come up with opinions based on the little things I know about you. Which makes me realize that I do not know you at all. & you don't know me... There is so much that we always keep to ourselves. Shocking things that we will never share with others. We have a certain view on who we are based on what we know about ourselves...and others...It is like we put on masks depending on who we are around. Some people may not even know someone but yet judge them based off of what they heard from others.
So, how can we know who we are? or who others are? We never will. The thing that bothers me the most is not knowing who the hell I am.
Then again, the self, I guess, is something that is ever-changing. It makes me sad to know that there are things I will never know about my brother, or father, because they keep it in. I will never know anyone, not even myself. I feel lost....
42 comments
1 Flytape 2018-05-06
You are more than the sum of your parts. It doesn't matter who I am, focus on you.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Thanks, but when I think of who I am, I feel like I can't grasp it. I feel like I am just a product of my environment. I want to figure out how I am more than that, but maybe, that is an individual journey that only I can try to figure out.
1 Flytape 2018-05-06
It is an individual journey, but... There is a lot of wisdom/philosophy that can be divined by learning of other people's journey.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
That is true, once I learn about others, or read a biography or a book that 'speaks' to me, I feel like I am no longer the same sometimes. I feel like we are so easily changeable. It is interesting but also a scary.
1 Flytape 2018-05-06
Yeah I guess different stuff resonates for different people and that's kind of what fills you out. Then you refine it further as you get into more nuanced details of those stuffs.
1 thecoloramythest 2018-05-06
I think we as people take in a lot of information these days. Technology has made it unavoidable and we could debate the pros and cons of that but it isn't the point I'm trying to make.
As we feel more "surrounded" by information I think we stopped critically assessing things. We sort of scan information over and over and don't take much time to process it. This - I think - has made it harder for us to feel like individuals. We are all sort of us in a ball pit screaming out into the void that is social media and because we are all screaming no one's voice is truly heard. Select few find their way to rise above the void and be "individuals" but I think we are mostly just small fragments of the people around us and the information we have floating in our brains.
I don't know if that made sense to you, but know what you're experiencing is something I think a lot of people go through.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Interesting point. I can see how an overabundance of information can make us seem numb to it. Its almost like overload. I do feel like everyone wants to be heard but no one wants to listen. I hate that about society and I can see it in myself as well as a lot of other people.
How do people find a way to rise above it though? I think the same, we are just fragments of others, and our experiences and genes...& I find that pretty bleak and disappointing. I want to believe there is more to us. I am searching for the word. Ugh, I can't think of it. Free will isn't the word. I am not sure what the answer is that I am seeking.
1 thecoloramythest 2018-05-06
I am in my mid 20s and I can tell you I've spent a lot of time questioning my purpose in life. Unhappy with every job I've worked, battling mental disorders, struggling with life in general led me to asking "why" a lot of days.
I believe that every person has a purpose in their life but I would be lying to you if I said every person will find their purpose during their life. I am not convinced that I will. I do think a lot about my time coming to an end and how will I have left this earth when I'm gone? Outside of the people I've known in my life I do not feel I will have impacted anything. However, I fiercely love my family and I like to think that there have been days and will be days that I made their lives easier or happier, and most of time I convince myself that, that can be my purpose here. I can go into the pine box when my time comes content that I just made the people I love happy.
Outwardly though, I go through these horrific philosophical loops of dread. There isn't a bigger picture that I have impacted but the thought of that overwhelms me.
I don't know what you're seeking either, but I hope someday you find it as I hope I do as well.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
I feel the same way and have struggled with many of the similar things and often ask 'why'?
I know this sound cliche, but I do think that you have impacted more than you think. For instance, you have just impacted me. I do feel the same though to be honest. I am sorry you feel that way because it is actually pretty painful. Without you though, and even me (maybe sounds narcissistic) but the world would be a different place. Maybe we have to start with ourselves, then our families, If none of us can get past trying to make those things better, then maybe they can't move on to trying to better society. Honestly I am not sure at this point but I do hope we both find a little bit of something we are searching for.
1 godlameroso 2018-05-06
"I" is a fictional character, any concept you can come up for "you" is a map which is not an equal representation of the territory. It is a map of the actual territory in question. A map can help you get around a place, but a map is not the territory, you cannot say you know a place because you saw a map. You cannot say you know "you" because you defined it in some way(made a map).
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Thanks for your input. I want to ask how to get to the territory but I feel like that can't be answered
1 godlameroso 2018-05-06
The same way you get to any territory you must walk the path. ;)
1 Gemini421 2018-05-06
Try spending some extended time being all by yourself. Put away modern time filling distractions (tv, phone, internet, games, etc.)
Find a place away from other people's distractions, expectations and judgment. What do you choose to do? What do you think about?
You can find out a lot more about your natural 'self' when you temporarily remove all of the other things (family, friends, society) that influence and affect your outward behavior (or mask.)
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Thank you for pointing this out. I have been wanting to do that for awhile. I think spending time alone from those things are great but with everything in my life at the moment it seems too difficult. The thing that makes me upset is that it shouldn't be so difficult. Then the fact that it's so difficult gets me thinking about a whole different subject.
1 Soundtravels 2018-05-06
Read this sometime.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/162677.Mirror_Mask_and_Shadow
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Cool I am interested. Does it have Jungian influences by any chance?
1 PunksawtawneyPhil 2018-05-06
https://www.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/comments/5tdzyh/if_you_realize_all_your_sensory_experiences/
A post that I think you may find helpful by a favorite reddit philosopher of mine u/murphy212
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1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Thanks for sharing that. That post is really great and tbh it almost made me cry.
1 PunksawtawneyPhil 2018-05-06
I hope that you found it helpful as a starting point for answering your question.
Don't feel too alone, I believe that the better we know ourselves the more we know each other.
It seems to me that you should find a group of friends or even just a friend with whom you can share yourself. If you show people that you will not judge them for their faults and mistakes they will be much more open with you, and you will feel comfortable doing the same. Though I do fear that it may be impossible to know any other person in the sense you mean, I do believe you can come very close.
1 PunksawtawneyPhil 2018-05-06
I hope that you found it helpful as a starting point for answering your question.
Don't feel too alone, I believe that the better we know ourselves the more we know each other.
It seems to me that you should find a group of friends or even just a friend with whom you can share yourself. If you show people that you will not judge them for their faults and mistakes they will be much more open with you, and you will feel comfortable doing the same. Though I do fear that it may be impossible to know any other person in the sense you mean, I do believe you can come very close.
1 comisohigh 2018-05-06
"posted this originally in the philosophy thread"
belongs back there.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
Sorry :( I just really like this thread and I really like how differently people think on here. Thought it would be a cool discussion.
1 Darnaldt-rump 2018-05-06
Whooooo am iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.
Sorry couldn't help myself.
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
No, it's cool. I want to run outside and scream the same thing lol
1 ManIsBornFree 2018-05-06
This is a good post, as it is novel to the content already here.
personal identity is an illusion.
With that truth, all the rest falls into place.
likewise, all the rest stops mattering so much, as, "what's the real identity of all of this" becomes more certain.
1 KarmaPolice777 2018-05-06
why no to astral projection?
1 ManIsBornFree 2018-05-06
Reality is a probability distribution of many vibratory fields interacting to form a synthesis of vibration that leads to conscious awareness. There really is only so much of the spectrum granted to matter and its detection, biological species the world over.
This vibration is one of many fields that encompass the material. On the material and beyond it, there are fields of vibration possessing forms that have no consciousness outside manifest intent - it does not possess you, you possess it by harnessing the conceptual form given energetic-body.
You are like this, only with a body. This identity is an illusion. At most, we should assume, we are pure essence of existence, as concept. IN weight, we have only the continuity of that light, where by, we have only the vibratory relation in probability disruption of these vibrations when they 'vibrate' (pulse) - this is karma.
For reference, think of the universal structure as a pulsing into existence and out, a heart or long-pitted fruit, formed over many fabrics of reality interacting and mixed, in probability distribution and expectation; all this while the energy within this system is flowing back into an interaction of two super-massive structures of immaterial construct whose relationships distribute the nature of gravity in observation.
For the Vedics this translated into destruction of the 'world' and rebirth, over 4,320,000,000 year cycles - complete cycle of the sun. Where by, the world is destroyed by fire/water. At the end of the complete cycle the universe as we know it is recycled into a reverse-material flow of space-time (or, so it's thought).
ALL THIS,
ALL THIS,
Is a massive structure unexplored and unknown unless told to us humans. Likewise, you are largely unknown to yourself unless you have been told what or how to do something - we are learning creatures.
Before exploring spaces you cant adequalty reach, discover the nature of the space between your eyes, and then you will be READY to explore AP (at your own risk). If you go into such things 'empty' to forms that can 'possess you', you never entered that realm beyond 'kord' that you're not supposed to access, else you could.
1 KarmaPolice777 2018-05-06
how to discover the nature of the space between the eyes?
1 ManIsBornFree 2018-05-06
> how to discover the nature of the space between the eyes?
A perfect question, as you noticed a generalization that must be evaluated in scope to understand it. This is the first step in understand the limits your structural mind can take you. It's a perfect limit for understand as much as you need to become 'good' (better in essence, in vibratory-e-magnetism).
The evolution of humankind was one of a perfect state into one of knowledge. This knowledge is only possible in process and structure of brain, phenomenally giving rise to mind. Mind is a process of many 'brains' interacting. The human brain is a marvel because unlike other 'intelligent' species, it has a lot of space dictated to regulated behavior and imagination. This pause to the word gives a being a means to reflect beyond appearances, and grasp the essences of the universe - universals exposed in applicable ways we have structural access to in this form. Form is function.
Plato - even a slave understands geometry.
It's in this math, that the nature of 'shape', 'color', 'form' and space are recognized. With other senses more subtle, time and safe passing through it in some narrative-form is allotted. A construct arises from parts whose imprint upon the mind, and whose learning in concepts, projects a narrative back into the world, for a sense of continuity of self. We call this memory, but the fact is, we like the noble crow, project more than we reflect, and then rationalize why/how somethings works out.
We live lives in cause-effect expectations and resolve, where the effect is understood before the cause.
So, to understand essences that exists within the appearances of things, we must attempt to cease our projection into the world, and allow it to overwhelm out senses, and then our mind. Firstly, our senses. Life can be lived in a state on non-mind, where only the vibrancy of hue and form is understood as visual function - you see beyond prescriptive meaning. You assign 'effect' to 'descriptive meaning', and from this state, you dissect your relationship to all semanticist that is YOUR OWN, into a state of meaningful parts. You can start by becoming more stoic.
Why?
The nature of our connection to the universe is with our mind, and via the sense of language - which is innate and structural, an instinct as much as sight. We see with the mind after all. This is why it's necessary to habitually detach the mind from the senses so that the two can understand their innate relationship in totality. Then, you separate the mind from language itself. You meditate and learn hypnotherapy (auto-hypnosis). This allows you to understand the structural nature of language enough to use it as a force of protective quality, and then deep reflective intensity and clarity. You clean your language only to lose it in mind, by meditation, and the separation of self from word.
This instinct allows us to pull-back the veil of constructs to expose congruent relationships in essence and place.
After this state, we must assume we are ready to spend the rest of our-life time PROVING observance to the way. This is enlightenment. It's not just 'knowing stuff', because all knowledge is useless unless used, as knowledge is pragmatic unless in nominalized states of reference. We live a life of process oriented modalities.
After this, a scale of language where generalizations become more 'true', and specificity more important in their own form, that we come to understand the construct of our projected reality, and can move onto exploring existence beyond the innate senses and infantile mind (taught to be 'adult' by other infants).
But first, before all this, we must understand we have a structural process within a 'human hierarchy' driving our values. We must first, before all else, address our values structure as it relates to the modality of 'self' or 'other' orientation.
You are born - self.
You recognize family and house hold - other.
You see self apart from family and household, and defend your spaces - self.
You see the community of tribe and people like you - other.
You see the ability to use rules to benefit the self in that community - self.
You see yourself as part of the whole of mankind - other (and the most lonely state of values evolution).
You see yourself as part of the universe - supreme other.
You adopt the way of the universe, in harmony with it (in the least) - supreme self.
You become one with the universe - supreme same.
You start by working out your relation to the form of humanity, first. Then, around a certain level of value category - we blend into all of them, as we originate in all of them, and revert back in times of trauma - you can begin to unravel the imprint of life from your spirit.
1 jhm1396 2018-05-06
I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together
1 Pugmaster9001 2018-05-06
Sounds like you are ready for a spiritual change/enlightenment.
Probably seems silly but have you looked into Buddhism?
1 SadSoggySandwich 2018-05-06
I know it's been awhile and it may seem dumb to most people but a couple days after this post I became a Christian. I had the most powerful, spiritual, life changing experience.
1 ichoosejif 2018-05-06
We are all the same person, doing the same thing. Just trying to get by.
1 Kyebright 2018-05-06
You don't exist neither do i, we are both illusions phantoms of the mind. So what then do we need to make study of it ?
1 swordofdamocles42 2018-05-06
are you AI? trying to work us humans out even more?
1 1tepa1 2018-05-06
There is only one I and each being and thing shares it. The whole reality is manifested out of this single consciousness that inwardly has no form and outwardly has the form perceived through the senses.
1 lolWiz 2018-05-06
Am I the only one upset that he never bullet-pointed a “2.” statement? He made such a big deal and wrote a thing for “1” but not “2”.
Downward spiral.