Define Deep State
1 2018-06-14 by Ront22
I think this is an important definition to the subject of conspiracies, and an important subject matter in general.
Recently, a trump supporter implied being anti-trump is a conspiracy and mentioned the deep state - i felt it proper to first define 'deep state'. The Trump supporter also self-described as a neo-liberal and anti-fascist; which i found very interesting.
My definition below, subject to edits and change.
The deep state is a network of propagandists and supremacists with goals to usurp power from nations to acquire power - power which will allow them to survive a manufactured world war and kill off anyone who isn't them.
Why do i think this? Because historically, supremacists work very hard to do this, and they're becoming more overt about it. The progress of technology is also making this possible for them - it's argueable that our global economy feeds their process. The propaganda of the 'altmedia' in the past decade or so has diverted unwitting peoples attention from resisting supremacists, to supporting them - useful idiots have always been in their arsenal, and taking advantage of peoples psychological disorders gives them an in to 'winning' elections. Wars have been fought to stop them when they were most emboldened, powerful, and obvious, but they were never truly defeated, and they always come back in a cycle, as if they're being allowed to. They come in the form of nazis, neoconfederates, neosoviets, and other national/racial/ideological/etc. brands of supremacism.
An alliance of covert and overt far-right supremacists is a more accurate name for them, as the term 'deep state' is more of a misnomer, originally used in a campaign to sway people.
As per your definition, these people are sometimes unelected bureacrats who don't take oaths seriously, unless it's their own personal oath or oath attached to supremacy. These people are too dangerous to be given power, like giving a viruently mentally ill person a gun. I want to add that the democrat party is likely infested with them - because it's a great strategy to manipulate what would be your opposition. The republican party is so overtly comprimised that I'm surprised they still exist.
Problem is, as time goes on, these people are able to project their power more and more due to technological progress and innovation (acquiring more useful idiots/tools/weapons). Even though their actual base numbers may be low, they will inevitably cause a major global disaster if unabated. Currently, they seem to be controlling many powerful nations, a variety of politcal parties, and sometimes come in conflict with each other, but are ultimately allied to kill all others before they turn their sights on each other.
They are still outnumbered by good, sane, and normal people. But that may not matter at some point.
I say all this, because the trump admin obviously has no interest in the US, and is showing to align with supremacy and the far-right - it concerns me.
I care about telling you this, because i don't think there's a future for you and i, or america for that matter, if these people succeed, and electing/supporting/defending trump aids them.
Slowing the bureacracy may have a temporary short-term effect of slowing them, or it may give them even more tools (to sew chaos), but it does get a lot of people killed as a side effect. It's not the way to go. The problem should be clear and the solution should be direct - these people need to be identified, removed/prevented from office, and potentially medically treated. Trump is one of them, and any intelligence agency would be correct to be making offical moves to prevent him from getting to power; now we're in a sticky situation of removing him, which is a threat in itself.
Take all this as you will. Like i said, i'm apolitical (my goal is to reach a time when politics are irrelevant), never voted dem or rep, and only begrudgingly step into politics when i see the far-right becoming a threat. If this challenges your perspective on things, it's not meant as an insult.
I guess my point boils down to: you do not need to be democrat to oppose republicans and vise versa (both parties are comprimised, have shifted right, and have very little to do with liberalism or conservatism anymore). You do not need to support trump to oppose fascism, supporting trump to oppose fascism is an ironic mistake. Trump is the clear and present danger here.
This is about all the time i'm going to put in this for now. I consider it a brief (off the top of my head) on a broad subject. I'll read any replies you have.
In advance, thanks for you time in reading this ridiculous wall of text, and we're all going to need therapy after this is over.
29 comments
1 The3HeadedLion 2018-06-14
What we saw today was the deep state at its finest.
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
That's every day. They improve every day.
1 ZiggyAnimals 2018-06-14
I can't remember who, but someone here wrote that Deep State is the term to use when the who in a conspiracy dosen't matter. Otherwise the perso. Should just name who they mean,
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
I can explain the word usage and meaning of deep state, above.
1 ZiggyAnimals 2018-06-14
The problem is deep state is something else for everyone. Tune in to Fox News and it's apparent the deep state for them is Obama, Hillary, Democrats, and non Trump supporting Republicans.
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
I agree, that is a problem. I'm talking of that problem as well; my defintiion was self-described as broad, but includes the topic of propaganda concerning both parties.
1 benjamindees 2018-06-14
Your definition is simply wrong.
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
Which parts on particular?
1 benjamindees 2018-06-14
Most all of it, honestly. The idea that the Deep State wants to kill everyone is especially bizarre.
1 da_clig 2018-06-14
would it be better put...
Deep State: UNELECTED stakeholders in national decisions and conversations who have money and power to influence
and I'll give you 2 - Zbigniew Brzezinski & Henry Kissinger (who's name I could not immediately recall so just googled 'war criminal' and he got the top result). The Koch brothers are more... people behind the money behind the politics, and of course people within the defence industry though it is harder to isolate the power-brokers
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
I'm not sure if it's better put, but you're entitled to feel so.
Seeing this all through with an investigation of all involved parties and individuals involved needs to be done simutanously, globally, thoroughly, and objectively, with mass data. For global security, and national security for that matter.
1 da_clig 2018-06-14
no. but it's through design... the markets and business takes priority over Humanocentricity..... business goals have been pushed and puched and puched as being most important
well I judge a society on how it treats people at the bottom... not on it's bottom line (GDP)! The powers that be... think otherwise.
fyi.. having done a fair bit of reading on the topic... don't underestimate the influence Narcissist and psychopaths have had, as they often float to the levels of power. One researcher prefers to call it 'Empathy Deficiency Syndrome'... and it is pretty clearly a driving factor... by these people that don' tneed to figure out where their next meal is coming from
1 Alpinegoatherd 2018-06-14
This definition is so vague that it can mean anything you want it to.
It's a definition that is in no way a definition.
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
What makes it vague and how can i elaborate?
1 99monkees 2018-06-14
Peter Dale Scott, one who's been writing about the deepstate for several decades, wrote about its relation to trump too... https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/03/06/trump-vs-deep-state-thats-light-gets/
"As I tried to show recently, the deep state is not geographically confined to the Beltway agencies, but is everywhere, including inside the new Trump team." ... , https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/02/06/donald-j-trump-deep-state-part-1/, https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/02/07/donald-j-trump-deep-state-part-2/.
Point being, since nearly everyone (OP too) is pushing this idea of a dichotomy between trumb and deepstate, well now, it kinda looks to be one of their big propaganda bullet points.
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
"Point being, since nearly everyone (OP too) is pushing this idea of a dichotomy between trumb and deepstate, well now, it kinda looks to be one of their big propaganda bullet points."
Can you paraphrase and/or elaborate that, please?
1 99monkees 2018-06-14
I dunno what your thoughts are exactly, but when I read .... "Trump is one of them, and any intelligence agency would be correct to be making offical moves to prevent him from getting to power". ... it sounds as if you're imagining trump being independent agent from "intelligence agencies". ... where dale Scott is offering that they can act in concert. for what it's worth my opinion is trump isn't independent from deepstate.
1 99monkees 2018-06-14
I dunno what your thoughts are exactly, but when I read .... "Trump is one of them, and any intelligence agency would be correct to be making offical moves to prevent him from getting to power". ... it sounds as if you're imagining trump being independent agent from "intelligence agencies" ... where as dale Scott is offering that they can act in concert. for what it's worth my opinion is trump isn't independent from deepstate. So of course the propaganda pushes this line of thinking, to cover their asses, I mean it doesn't matter who thinks what about russiagate or whateva bc seriously, all the conspiracists can agree the elections were hacked via deepstate channels. So there's that.
1 FatwaBurgers 2018-06-14
Peter Dale Scott was the first Western author to use the term "Deep State," which he borrowed from Turkish politics.
According to him, "Deep State" means any source of power & influence on government policy that is non-elected & non-accountable.
His two primary examples are Wall Street (whose leaders including the Dulles Brothers created the CIA) & Big Oil. He also points out that "Deep State" is transnational like corporations (or like the Safari Club*) and is not local or loyal to a single nation.
These "Deep State" entities infiltrate the military and intelligence sectors. Each "state" sector can have competing Deep State players.
Yes, I've noticed that too. Used to be "both sides are the same," now it's "Pentagon is the victim of a coup" so they can call the upcoming military coup a "counter-coup"
1 da_clig 2018-06-14
watch the markets if you wnat to know what the 'deep state' is thinking... and it was clear int he days before the eection... they had thrown in their lot with him
tehe same person who identified the 20Trillion missing from the Pentagon made thi spoint abundantly clear... they are working hand in hand, while thee protests too much
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
Markets are a topical subject, but sure, you can watch them.
Logical deduction works well too, with observation.
The things you listed happening, should be red flagish enough - signifying that our system is fundamentally flawed.
1 da_clig 2018-06-14
no shit Sherlock! I think it is the only political issue the entire country can unanimously agree on
note: extra comment edited into my previous post
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
I thought it was worth pointing out, pretending a reader didn't know the significance. But yeah, no shieeet.
Note noted.
Markets are a funny thing to me and also lack a clear sense of objectivity, on macro and micro scale.
1 da_clig 2018-06-14
don't take the sherlock comment as a critique.. .it was enthusiastic agreement!
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
Heh
1 Ront22 2018-06-14
Soo, i wonder why that mueller investigation is taking so long. ;)
1 yellowsnow2 2018-06-14
1 benjamindees 2018-06-14
The "Deep State" originates in the US State Department. That's literally where the name comes from. I don't even want to know where you got the idea that they are "supremacists".
1 Granite66 2018-06-14
They are bureaucracy and politicians who have access to state apparatuses of national security and secrecy, which they then abuse to cover their criminal actions.
I'm sick and tired of migraines, one which I have now and if what I have written above doesn't make sense that will the reason
1 benjamindees 2018-06-14
Your definition is simply wrong.