fools we are, drawing from a well gone dry. fools we are, defenders of truths we know are lies.

Nice write up and I agree.

Well, we know it's not Obama's fault or a Democrat policy because if it were Trump and Republicans would undo it yesterday.

Literally laughed out loud. This sho uld be enough proof for anyone.

How do you blame the party with no control of any federal branch of government?! It hurts my brain...

When someone comits a crime are they separated from their family?

?

I'm not joking.

Yes. Have you heard of prison before?

So should we not separate children from criminals?

Answer my question.

Yep. Now answer mine.

They're criminals. What do you think?

Who are?

Obviously whoever you referenced in your question. Are you usually this obtuse? Jesus Christ.

Obviously whoever you're referencing in your question.

Ummmm, the people trying to illegally enter our country?

What criminals?

When someone commits a crime, their children are not automatically locked up.

They are sent to social services are they not?

You're equating social services to being locked up in an old Walmart?

What's the difference? A buildings a building.

The Ritz Carlton versus Abu Ghraib.

"Whats the difference? A building's a building"

Both run by jews! You're right no difference.

Wow, you arent even a good troll.

The war in Iraq didn't benefit Israel?

Are you just trolling to cause division? You take both sides of every issue

Just because I don't fit into your preconceived notions of "right and left" doesn't mean I'm trolling. Grow up.

Yeah i never said anything about "right and left". You regularly contradict yourself over and over again in your posts so youre either a habitual liar who cant help themselves, or a troll. So which is it sport?

Yeah i never said anything about "right and left". You regularly contradict yourself over and over again in your posts so youre either a habitual liar who cant help themselves, or a troll. So which is it sport?

Now your a moralist? Is lying bad? Lawl. Wow. Keep your Bible to yourself.

Am I not free to express myself?

Nice attempt at diversion, but alas my question remains unanswered

So let me ask the question again so you can try answering it, are you a troll or just a habitual liar?

I am the enemy. The enemy of received values and opinions. A mask is necessary to show the masses the folly of their ways.

We have many here. We are legion.

Hmmm you wouldnt be admitting to astroturfing this sub would you?

Hmmm you wouldnt be admitting to astroturfing this sub would you?

Not at all? I'm just getting my thoughts out there. Is that a crime? You wouldn't be accusing me of anything would you?

Still not seeing an answer to my question so ill try again: are you a troll or a habitual liar?

I am the enemy. The enemy of received values and opinions. What you see as "lying" is a golf tool to break down cognitive dissonance.

Does that answer your question?

That seems like a lot of extra steps to go down to rationalize being a habitual liar.

Is lying bad? You're a moralist now?

I thought trum poo supporters didn't approve of spending taxes on illegal immigration. Now suddenly, they're all for paying to keep these kids interned. The only explanation I can come up with is that they expect that these kids will be providing them with some sort of service in the future. The question is, what might that service be?

I'm a Trump supporter??

Correct. When a child is separated from their parent due to the parent being arrested, the child is sent to social services and given legal representation. Is that happening here?

Yes. Usually jail. Breaking laws puts parents at risk of losing their kids by jail or child protective services even for citizens born in the US.

Shocking.

And that requires holding these kids in cages in a walmart? The length you people go to defend this shit is pathetic

What do you suggest then? Rent them a room at Motel 6? Put them in jail? Let them run free with nobody looking out for them?

Makeshift temporary detention centers are used when too many people break the law while bringing their children in one specific area. They will soon be transported to better facilities. This isn't as bad as the mindless exaggerations make it out to be.

Isn’t this a misdemeanor in many cases? I did t lose my kids when I got a speeding ticket last year.

I get it that this is complicated by the legal citizenship status but the treatment really doesn’t fit the crime. I understand also that the catch and release process doesn’t work for trump since he believes these kids are all about to rape true Americans next week but if detainment is their approach it should be done in a better way. Oh that’s not a deterrent you are right. Well living in shit and having you kids and life threatened all the time outweigh any deterrent Sessions can come up with except maybe immediate execution. Is that the way we want to go?

Don’t bring your ass here expecting a free ride? Idk, if I was thinking about going somewhere, and I knew they would take my kids from me as soon as I got there, and lock my ass up, I would probably think twice about taking that trip. That’s just common sense to me.

There are definitely some that think that but many more that are leaving a worse condition so as usual it’s not black and white.

Even the foster care and being separated is still probably better for many.

It comes down to how we want to be as a people. Nationalists are afraid and want to throw up walls it’s that simple.

What is the number 12k? It’s such a non factor at the end of the day from a risk point of view.

Should the minors just be on the street?

I don’t think so but I would be okay with the system that was in place before for first time misdemeanor level folks. Send them off and they probably join their extended families and expect them to show up in court. The numbers that did follow the rules was actually pretty good. Some won’t but what can you do.

For those coming with drug dealers or repeat they should pulled aside and queued up for foster care and or return to their families.

The current overcrowding event is completely due to the change in catch/release to zero tolerance. It shows lack of foresight and planning imo.

Again I go back to the deterrent short of death is probably still better in many cases so stopping this type of behavior is impossible.

It’s a waste of time and resources and that’s the very reason the previous protocols were in place.

Watch as /u/rfmn doesn't respond...

Isn’t this a misdemeanor in many cases?

So is beating your wife. Misdemeanors are frequently pretty serious crimes that carry prison time.

True. There is a wide range of punishment for misdemeanors.

Regardless Trump owns this because his lack of planning and understanding that the policy change from catch and release to zero tolerance had consequences and they clearly did not plan for them.

For whatever reason trump and his nationalists have deemed this type of criminality a high risk. It is all on them.

Well if they are arrested, don’t have a home and are here illegally, yes. Hell they don’t even need to be here illegally. How many times has CPS taken children from homes where the parents are arrested? Are they just supposed to let the kids run free? Who takes care of the kids when the parents are arrested?

For a misdemeanor?

Illegal immigration is a misdemeanor?

I'm sorry, what law are you under the impression that broke when they are seeking asylum? And either way, yes, illegal entry is a misdemeanor comrade.

Coming into the country illegally isnt a crime?

Why do the liberals advocate breaking the law now?

Who said that? Seeking asylum isn't a crime. That's a fact. Gaining illegal entry into the country is a misdemeanor, that's a fact. When did what ever the fuck you are, become so disconnected from reality, that you ignore facts and claim victory? Can you respond to the facts?

What are they seeking asylum from?

Are you a federal judge? It's not on you to decide if their claims are legitimate. Still wondering why you are deflecting from your entire argument comrade...

I love how you're changing the definition of illegal immigration to Asylum Seeker.

That's what they're doing. But let's pretend for a minute they are not. That would be a misdemeanor. What I'm asking comrade is simple, do your kids get taken away and detained when you get a speeding ticket? Same fucking question I've been asking comrade. Are you done deflecting?

That's what they're doing. But let's pretend for a minute they are not. That would be a misdemeanor. What I'm asking comrade is simple, do your kids get taken away and detained when you get a speeding ticket? Same fucking question I've been asking comrade. Are you done deflecting?

Criminals should have their children taken, yes.

So people should have their kids taken away for any crime. That's your policy? Just to be clear.

So people should have their kids taken away for any crime. That's your policy? Just to be clear.

You've also never answered the question. Do YOUR kids get taken for a misdemeanor?

Sometimes. Get busted with some weed and they will take your kiss. And Lawl. So then broke the law? We can agree on that?

No reason why anyone busted for weed should have their kids taken away from them.

? Okay then why aren't you outraged that it happens every day in this country?

I never gave any indication that I was/am outraged or not, I merely stated my opinion that children should not be taken from their families for a pot bust.

Your mental gymnastics are on point comrade. Vlad will be pleased. I said IF they crossed illegally, that is a misdemeanor. I wrote 3 fucking times asylum seekers did not break the law.

Asylum seekers aren't illegal immigrants?

Okay what are they seeking asylum from? Communism in Venezuela and Cuba?

Low effort comrade. Low effort

It's a simple question.

Seeking asylum isn't a crime

If the families are seeking asylum, why don't they go to a point of entry and declare their desire to seek asylum?

Isn't that what all other asylum seekers worldwide do?

You go to a point of entry and say "I would like to seek asylum in your country."

No need to sneek over any borders.

That's what's happening. And while they wait the 45 to 150 days, they are being detained in a federal prison...

^ damage control

"Something something something "family values""

Yes, why spin it? This is simply a hard-line stance by the Trump admin. They could have kept the children with their families in the poor conditions of the detention centers like Obama and others did. But this isn't about that. This is about a hard-line stance, almost cruel, to be a "deterrent."

Honestly, I think it will be a deterrent. It changes the incentives. Bringing children with you on your dangerous illegal border crossing makes much more sense under an Obama administration who will keep you together in a center until you are deported or granted entry. That situation was "heads I win, tails at worst I'm sheltered with my children until we're deported."

Now the situation is "heads I win, tails I end up in Federal prison away from my children until we're deported."

I don't even know that it would be much of a deterrent.

How many of these people from countries like El Salvador, Guatemala, or Honduras would even be in a position to be "deterred"?

How many of these people would even hear about the policy?

How many would even believe that the United States would have such a policy?

So, it's not gonna do much to deter anyone. There must be another reason for the policy ...

I think the deterrent is around:

1) Crossing illegally (and then claiming asylum if/when you are caught) rather than following the protocol for asylum seekers.

and/or

2) Bringing your children on the journey.

Not to mention that many people who come over the border with their children aren't economic migrants. Most are fleeing worse from circumstances.

yes but they shouldnt be trying to illegally cross the borders in the first place .. these parents are the criminals and the ones in the wrong for putting their kids at risk, no?

No

how so?

They are not criminals. They are asylum seekers. Even if you were to make the case that they were crossing illegally, it's not a criminal offense, it's a civil infraction. Robbing a bank makes you a criminal, getting a speeding ticket doesn't. You all are trying to inflate the infraction to justify the kidnapping of abuse of children. It's pretty disgusting and I hope to never here any bullshit pizza gate type shit again from you all.

The government increases the rate of children being kept in makeshift shelters with no plan to return them to their parents and your first thought is "How do I defend Trump?"

Oh I read it. I disagree with it.

That sentence made no sense whatsoever.

How does that not make any sense.

Have any of them been in custody over 20 days? I'm somewhat out of the loop on this issue. It seems like it just popped up out of nowhere and now everyone is up in arms. How long has this been going on at the border? Why does it seem like 1000s of people just all the sudden went to the border and tried getting asylum? Is there a head count where we can see the ratio of adults to children?

Polish and spin a flaming turd all you want, but it's still a flaming turd.

The government is stealing children and has no plan in place to return them. Blaming Democrats or Obama or whoever doesn't change any of that.

lol using the Dailywire as any source of reality.

when you use laughable horseshit like Dailywire, don't be surprised people don't take you seriously.

ok grandpa! Your shitty online news sites are trash and the only people who read them are the idiots who don't realize they are being bilked.

you are bad at this.

...you probably hear that a lot in your life

theyre not stealing anything; criminal parents are bringing them, dont you think the blame should be on them?

They're taking their kids away, moving them to undisclosed locations, and have no plans for how to reunite them.

That's the definition of stealing.

Illegal immigration is not seeking "asylum".

No, but seeking asylum is seeking asylum.

You don't get arrested for seeking asylum. These children's parents were arrested fro illegal immigration.

That's the fucking point, you never USE too. That's exactly what's happening now. It's like you have to baby step you fucking people from point A to point B and make sure you don't eat lead chips along the way.

No, that is not what is happening now. You still don't get arrested for seeking asylum. You always got arrested for illegally crossing the border, which is different. Now they just don't let anyone go that gets busted illegally crossing the border. Before, child smugglers were too much of a pain to deal with their children, so they just let them go when they caught them. You couldn't discern the child smugglers from the parents illegally crossing with their children, so you assumed they were all families and just let them go. Smuggling children was a free pass into the US illegally.

So should we not separate children from criminals?

I'm not joking.

There are definitely some that think that but many more that are leaving a worse condition so as usual it’s not black and white.

Even the foster care and being separated is still probably better for many.

It comes down to how we want to be as a people. Nationalists are afraid and want to throw up walls it’s that simple.

What is the number 12k? It’s such a non factor at the end of the day from a risk point of view.

I never gave any indication that I was/am outraged or not, I merely stated my opinion that children should not be taken from their families for a pot bust.

you are bad at this.

...you probably hear that a lot in your life