Or we keep getting divided like fuckin crazy and kill each other in an uprising so they can finish us off in mass

Sounds okay to me.

It’s backfiring lol

Not that simple. Trump represents a different faction of Elites. As does HRC, Obama, etc; The fighting between these two groups that we are witnessing is real, but it is a group of Elites fighting a group of Elites.

Those on the Left pushing Dem Socialism aren't a part of either faction. It is largely a grassroots driven movement that has sprung up in the wake of Bernie's campaign. Look into Our Revolution and DSA, among others. There's a real, People driven movement happening right now.

You may disagree with it politically, but it's not some super secret plan. The Elite's don't actually want True Socialism or the culture necessary to maintain it. They want crony Capitalism and statism.

The proof of my statements has already been shown in the '16 Dem Primary with the attacks, coordination, and cheating against Bernie by HRC and the DNC, and the absolutely shameful treatment he received from the supposedly "liberal" Press. Further proof will bear itself out in 2020 when he runs again and they treat him even worse.

For some evidence right now- look at how WaPo, NYT, etc; treat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's victory over Crowley. They barely even mention her and go on and on and on about the Party leadership and how her win is fracturing the "Left". Ignoring the fact that she is the first fruits of a People driven movement from the actual Left.

Thank you. That’s a more eloquent version of how I was trying to get across my point. Very well put. The exact truth of the situation, divide and conquer is working beautifully but hopefully the devout Trumpist will realize their getting conned and hop on the people first grassroots movements. But it has the world “socialist” so they must be a bunch of commies or but but Venezuela.

Democratic Socialism requires way more government coercion doesn’t it? Our system is rigged but at least we have some remnants of freedom of association left.

I think you are over looking things. Millennials are the simple minded demographic. Universities have been building this movement for almost a decade. I don't call it grassroots because of this.

European Socialism is the biggest focus of Soros and many other elites. The goal isn't just socialism but political correctness and all that we see in Canada and Europe. Ridicule Christians, crush the middle class and let other beliefs take center and flood the society with immigrants. How else do you change a culture and social norms? This is the "age of aquarius" as all the elite say that push NWO.

Bernie was a plant that tested the waters. The recent socialist elected in NY is the hard left scare tactic. The goal is to use their extremist views and voice to soften the socialist phase 1 candidate.

Problem is......only big metro areas will eat this shit. They forget rural America and middle class will grow a lot under Trump.

It is largely a grassroots driven movement that has sprung up in the wake of Bernie's campaign.

The people were out there already looking for an alternative and in 2015....when Bernie finally announced he would have 3 or 4 thousand people at 9am on workdays show up to hear him speak.

Those numbers only grew from rally to rally.

Crony capitalism is milking profits without realizing that if the consumers have no money to buy their goods & services they kind of painted themselves into a dead end exporting jobs to slave wage labor countries & excessive automation.

They would have to get rid of the U.S. Constitution first. They are trying, but...

Bullshit. Grassroots progressives like Bernie and Ocasio-Cortez are for working people. We can disagree on the policies but conservatism isn’t this wonder land trump world restoring old American “values”. Conservatism delegitimizes itself with its failing in environmental policy, evangelical Christian cookoos, and neo conservative war mongering. Not forgetting it’s excusing corporate takeover when it really wants “small business” to flourish but is completely backwards on its promise. Picking tribalistc sides will continue to degrade the country. Libtards or conservatirards. Bernie has more in touch with Trump voters then Trump will ever have but as LBJ said “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

Progressives are in the business of expanding the power of the state which means expanding the power of them and their friends (big unions, state sponsored business, local party bosses/stooges, etc).

Progressives can't maintain power without authoritarianism in the end.

That’s not true in many ways but conservatives do the same thing except the opposite and give the power over to crony capitalism and oligarchies. I’ll take a regulated state by and for the people then a unregulated corporate crony capitalism controlled by oligarchies. The New Deal worked, crony capitalism hasn’t.

the New Deal would have worked better if FDR had written the Financial Bill of Rights that he had planned. it's too bad he died before he could do that.

Yeah the Supreme Court and Wall Street elites tried a coup on him. Unfortunately instead of Henry Wallace winning, Truman did and the elites got their guy in. The Wall Street elites and the military industrial complex had FDR in a hold at the same time he has a plague of physical ailments.

You shouldn't have a country run by conservatives full time either. You need balance in a country as diverse and large as the US. Americans dont want hardline conservatism but they also dont want hardline socialism.

The difference is that the right accepts losing peacefully. Eight years of Obama and the biggest riots and protests came from his own side (BLM, OWS). Right-wingers gradually became more accepting of gay marriage and other liberal issues. Soon it will be marijuana. Progressives don't have any 'give'.

They are driven by government control over the individual. There is competition amongst big businesses. Technology and trends change the world for the better. With big government, there is no competition under progressives.

No that’s more nonsense. Remember the birther movement? Obama’s birth certificate, Benghazi, and a myriad of Fox News complaining about the Democrats being in power. The right definitely doesn’t accept peacefully losing. The “left” which is really corporate media and tribalist identity politics “resistors” aren’t the real left. They’re reactionists manipulated by the media. The real left thinks the “resistance” is absolutely ridiculous hence them “resisting” trump from the right like Maddow, Maher, Zakaria. They aren’t real left. The right is now the victim give me a break. Progressives are much more libertarian then you give them credit for. You paint progressivism as full on socialism which it isn’t and they agree more with your initial point on not full on conservatism or socialism but getting rid of crony capitalism to have more social programs like infrastructure, healthcare, tuition free college. Reducing the military budget and allocating funds to the people. Progressives are plenty free market just resistant to crony capitalism and oligarchies.

amorkingII says:

Progressives don't have any 'give'.

Electricveritas responds:

No that’s more nonsense

Hmmmmm.

No progressives are in the business of using the state to expand the protection and rights of the individuals.

Unless you are going to pretend the recent very conservative court decisions and all Trumps Executive Actions, were favorable to all individuals, when they only favor the, government as the ultimate tool of oppression.

No progressives are in the business of using the state to expand the protection and rights of the individuals

Is desegregation progressive? How about Affirmative Action?

Those are expansions of individual rights, but I know some don't see them that way.

You suggest Bernie has more in common with voters that you then go on to label with such an ignorant broad brushed statement at the end.

Equating the whole group as LBJ fans? Really? Really? Are you fucking serious?

You do nothing here but cause more division with careless, ignorant labeling/branding...but by all means...now go tell them how they should listen to you as far as who is the best person to vote for in the future.

Socialism is hardly for working people. It is a system that supports political corruption. Now imagine a Trump running a government under a bigger government with more control. Fucking stupid isn't it. Like Reid killing the fillabuster. Shit will come back to haunt you.

Socialism is hardly for working people.

Capitalism is caused the biggest amount of American citizens being homeless I have ever seen in my life from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. We have people sleeping on cardboard boxes & sidewalks everywhere.

You live in a socialist state.

Texas doesn't have that problem

My wife who migrated here to get away from socialism can share with you the horrors. Socialism from a distance sounds like a Utopia but it's extremely vulnerable to corruption. Put it this way, take a President and Adminstration that you disagree with across the board. Now imagine handing them more control and power than what they have today. Think of a government being a horrible and abusive parent constantly micromanaging you as an adult. No thanks.

The whole Trump presidency hoopla exists to delegitimize ___, paving the way for voter-approved ___. In the end, the U.S. will resemble _______.

I agree to that extent. The blanks may be filled in as the OP, maybe not. May end up:

white nationalism, race riots, the Balkans politically.

Republicans, single-party, China politically.

America, China's rise (non-voter approved), a banana republic.

And yet Trump continues to drive a wedge between the left and the neoliberals. Look at how many Democrats there are now shilling for traditional GOP talking points like an importation of cheap labor, "free trade", aggressive foreign policy against enemies (like Russia and NK), etc.

Trump is forcing the opposition further and further to the left. Forcing moderate Democrats to either support outright socialists or be voted out by energized radicals. The more the left extends itself, the more it alienates moderate Democrats and independents.

With a divided left which doesn't know what the hell they actually want politically besides hating Trump, he can attack them piecemeal.

Reality: The whole Trump presidency exists to RELEGITIMIZE conservatism, paving the way for voter-approval of the relatively moderate George W. Bush PNAC faction. In the end, the U.S. will represent the U.S. circa Jim Crow/Gunboat Diplomacy/Rise of Trusts Era.

Hypothesis: They gave the 'conservatives' the boogieman of Obama. Now it's the 'liberals' time to have a bad guy. It's all part of the circus. It keeps serfs on the plantation and fighting with themselves.

It's ALL bullshit.

To see the farm, is to leave it.

I’d also add none of these self proclaimed democratic socialist have much in common at all with actual socialism but more with a renewed updated version of a New Deal. The using of the term socialism is only hindering their efforts to get voters on both sides who are done with the two party elites.

The using of the term socialism is only hindering their efforts to get voters on both sides who are done with the two party elites.

My nephews & their friends are all coming of age & don't seem to have any adverse reactions to the ideas of socialism.

Few people do when they're still coming of age.

Or maybe there’s a push for right wing fascism? Nah couldn’t be, it’s only the lefties and socialism that’s bad..

Yeah, screw them and thier free healthcare and college.

"Free"

OP? You are kinda correct, this part:

Hypothesis: The whole Trump presidency hoopla exists to delegitimize conservativism

It's not an attempt by anybody but actually the insanely repetitive nature of American society and especially American politics. The general theory on America's repetition:

The cyclical theory refers to a model used by historian Arthur Schlesinger to attempt to explicate the fluctuations in politics throughout American history. Liberalism and conservatism are rooted in the "national mood" that shows a continuing shift in national involvement between public purpose and private interest. Each of these cycles includes a phase of dominant public interest, a transition phase, and a phase of prevalent private interest.

Schlesinger defined these to be "self-generating and autonomous". They begin in the mentality of the masses, rather than creations of influential individuals of a time period. Leaders or politicians are representations of the "mood", chosen to express the voice of the majority. Shifts in the national mentality are initiated when discontent with present conditions over time drives Americans to pursue a new trend that promises to satisfy the interest of the masses. This discontent, described by Schlesinger as "inextinguishable", drives the cycles of change in national politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclical_theory

You might like that and the great exploration of this repetition in general society:

(book) Generations by Strauss and Howe

I believe a lot of our societal ills come from nothing more insipid than our repetitive nature as a species. This was the redpill I have found to be the real TPTB, repetition.

How is Conservatism being delegitimized?

Seems to me like, more than anything, Trump is refining it. He's cut the wheat from the chaff of conservatism and brought out what it always was at its core.