Eggs have almost every essential amino acid your body needs...

One thing i don't understand about veganism is how can it be the optimal way to live when b12 is only found in animal products. Doesn't sound very natural if you need b12 injections every month

Your body also naturally produces cholesterol and fat, its certainly not bad for you, if anything the conspiracy is to demonize fats and cholesterol, which really don't contribute to heart disease, unlike sugar. Sugar is the real killer for cardiovascular health, thats why all these low fat options in food are high in sugar

I'll check out the documentary, is it on youtube?

Looks like i got some homework, thanks for all the sources!

Meat does cause heart disease.

Eh, the Inuits, pre-introduction of the American diet had some of the lowest recorded rates of heart disease (and obesity) we’ve ever seen, and they ate meat and animal fat exclusivly upwards of 90% of the year.

It’s always people who eat animal fat who have heart attacks and stroke.

Not really, it’s the connection between fat, carbs and protein. Fat & protein is fine, carbs & protein is fine, but fat & carbs are not. People who ‘eat animal fat’ tend to also eat a lot of starches, crossing fat and carbs. Carbs are fast processing and get priority in your body, the fat just hangs around until it’s turn or get stored. Without cabs, fat is directly burned as a fuel source. It’s why someone going from the standard American diet can massively lower their risk of heart disease by switching to a keto diet (and even suppress type 2 diabetes completely.

That’s why both low fat and low carb diets work, becaue they isolate out one of the two incompatible types.

That’s not saying there’s anything wrong with a vegan diet, if you follow the same rule of protein + carbs OR fat, you would see the same benefits. But if you were on a vegan diet eating mostly fat + carbs. (Like... a grain and avocado exclusive diet?) you could see the exact same rates of heart disease the ‘meat eaters’ have.

The Inuits have terrible health now bro

Did you mis the

Pre introduction of the american diet

Part I said? We came in, killed their food, then gave them boxes of canned meat, dairy and Coca-Cola. Same thing happended with one specific indiginus tribe in Australia (Sadly don’t know it off the top of my head) and they had the same result. Horrible heath, high heart disease rates and diabetes. Things neither native tribe had ever had before.

You’re talking about whale blubber

And seal. And fish. And elk, and potentially bear, but who knows. If it moved around they ate it. Whale would last longest, just because of how much meat and fat they got per single kill.

we should all be vegan once again since the SDA haven’t the longest life son ever recorded.

I can’t respond to that because I don’t understand what you’re saying.

I do a vegan keto for the most part but I’m not to worried about heart disease all things considered.

Congrats, as that is extremely difficult (and prohibitively expensive depenging on your locaton) especially without using oils.

we should just look at the SDA (seventh day Adventist) group

That’s a conspiracy on its own, as they are the ones who came up with the Standard American Diet, from hallucinations that one of their members (Ellen White ) had (who then worked with Kellogg to make corn flakes to... stop people from masturbating.

Not sure how they intended that to work.

meat is the ultimate hoax v. people. injected dead flesh. wtf?

Cannot upvoat this enough. B12 deficiency became a thing back when most people were eating "healthy" diets full of animal products, mostly from traditional farms. B12 wasn't even named until 1948 and not synthesized until the 70s. So it's not so much a "eat meat or how else can you avoid deficiency" since it was first meat eating people who were the early deficient.

blue algae or spirulina or whatever it’s called is high in b12 and protein.

I have yet to try it, but i definitely want to! how does it make you feel?

The reason is, B12 is created by bacteria in the dirt. because our food is sterilised, the b12 bacteria is killed off and we don't get any b12 from it. The thing is, this is also true for the food animals eat, and so they are given b12 supplements. So either way you are suplimenting with b12, it's just up to you whether you want to filter it through a dead body or not.

cholesterol and fat are more dangerous when people are drowning themselves in refined carbs and sugar.

Do you seriously think fats and cholesterol are "bad"? We actually can't live without them, you know.

He's being disingenuous. You don't post here and when you do, it's about selling veganism to people. Who's really disingenuous?

so who told you that then? hmmmmmm ? cos its bullshit

eating vegan isn’t as always as healthy as it’s advertised. all of their ‘replacement meats’ are full of gmo soy and shit. eating raw, with plenty of fruits and vegetables and locally sourced- or especially- ethically sourced meat of different varieties including deer and elk is probably the best option if you struggle to maintain veganism and rely heavily on processed garbage fake meat.

my b! minus the gmo aspect, a lot of them still contain soy which mimics estrogen in your body.

and yeah, that shouldn’t be a thing. that’s why majority of animals are so sick. that and close quarters between animals and less than sanitary or humane conditions. the trifecta for pus-y meat

i saw a video of slaughters of cows and how people specifically have to pop all the animals abscesses and the pus just goes everywhere and it’s my nightmare.

co2 or helium i think would be better options, i don’t know what drawbacks there would be.

It would be fairly pricey to do full scale but He or N would not cause them to feel like theyre suffocating. The panic and unpleasantness comes from a CO2 buildup not from oxygen deprivation. Could have rooms of cattle just standing there oblivious till they just drop dead.

okay see i wasn’t sure if co2 levels would cause unconsciousness before the panic set in

my b! minus the gmo aspect, a lot of them still contain soy which mimics estrogen in your body.

No? Soy is perfectly fine, especially in moderate amounts:

Soy and the effects of it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11880595

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/abstract

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Eating soy isn't bad or dangerous for your health at all. It doesn't mimic estrogen anywhere near the same amount as actual estrogen. Not to mention that soy only contains phytoestrogens, whereas actual meat contains actual estrogen.

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Please stop trying to convert people to veganism? I hear /r/vegan calling, bruv. Because if humans consume high quality food like they do in Austria and New Zealand, their meat and dairy consumption does not hurt them when kept in moderation.

All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as, and probably healthier than omnivorous diets. Here are links to what some of them have to say on the subject:

Harvard Medical School

• Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.

British Dietetic Association

• Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

• It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

Dietitians of Canada

• A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

The British National Health Service

• With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

• A well-planned, balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

The Dietitians Association of Australia

• Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. With good planning, those following a vegan diet can cover all their nutrient bases, but there are some extra things to consider.

The United States Department of Agriculture

• Vegetarian diets (see context) can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.

The National Health and Medical Research Council

• Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle. Those following a strict vegetarian or vegan diet can meet nutrient requirements as long as energy needs are met and an appropriate variety of plant foods are eaten throughout the day

The Mayo Clinic

• A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada

• Vegetarian diets (see context) can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits.

What's wrong with GMO? GMO is the most thoroughly tested food humans have ever eaten.

Why is that?

Get this shit outta here. Quite pushing your veganism.

I ain't pushing shit. People can eat what they want.

No need to push your diet onto others.

My sister watched a doc about vegan and she is now vegan. Fine and dandy, but when you start criticizing people for eating meat, it's bullshit. People make their own choices.

I see you refer to yourself as a “Christian Vegan”. It was the Miracle of the Loaves and FISHES, remember? Many of His followers were fishermen. Ya savvy?

Indeed.

Well, Adventists and others think Jesus was vegetarian. In the predeluvian world, Yahweh said fruits and veggies shall be the Adamite's meat.

Just out of curiosity, what’s your stance on abortion?

I’m legitimately very curious.

Thanks, that sounds literally exactly where I’m currently at on the whole topic. I was raised in a super pro-choice family and never thought twice about it, but ever since hearing more from the opposing side I’m firmly in the middle now, but still lean towards being pro-choice.

What was your last point about Crowder? He doesn’t seem to be very quiet at all on this topic lol. He’s one of the people that actually got me to start realizing the validity of the pro-life argument (if one believes it is indeed a human life, and not just a parasitic organism of the female body).

Right?? I find the whole thing super interesting, but it's become such an emotional issue that most people can't even handle having a calm and reasonable discussion about it.

The science argument is what really got me. If a baby wasn't able to survive outside the womb at 7 months not too long ago, and then 5 months, and now even earlier... extrapolate that 30 years from now. What do we do when we have fully artificial uteri/wombs, where a fertilized embryo can be placed into an artificial environment (outside anyone's body) and a baby can grow and survive until "birth"? What then?

The fact that it's such a nuanced and difficult question to answer is why it is one of the most hotly debated topics in politics for decades now.

What's your take on people choosing to abort pregnancies of children they know will have severe mental or physical illnesses? That scenario is even trickier to me.

It's an ethical philosophy, not just a diet.

people are very brainwashed about eating animal products. it’s one of the biggest conspiracies of all. even the open minded people in this sub can’t open their minds to it

i think people tend be defensive about their food or anything that goes into their bodies. and i think in some deep way it makes people feel like they are being told that bc they eat meat, they are bad people. it’s really a lost cause here. i’ve been vegetarian for about ten years and vegan for about three and it’s almost gotten to the point where i just don’t even talk ab it with people bc even when they ask, they get ridiculously defensive

From what I see, you don't even want people to have a middle road. What's so wrong about eating meat when meat gave us our brain sizes? We would not be as smart as we are without meat and fish.

I’m extremely open minded, and have researched health and diet extensively from all sides. It’s my experience that everyone I know that’s vegan looks much more frail and less healthy than those that consume meat.

The real conspiracy is sugars and carbohydrates. They are in 95% of the foods in supermarkets, and the constant insulin spikes on a daily basis for your entire life starts to damage the microtubules, which can lead to most of the inflammation based health issues we are seeing more and more in old people.

Through all of my years of extensive research into just about every type of diet out there, the ketogenic diet made the most sense to me by far. Essentially, eat like cavemen. Evolution doesn’t change as fast as modern agriculture has changed our society. Cruciferous vegetables and meat. Plain and simple.

Amen. I'm doing much better since going paleo. Fewer carbs and more healthy fats. I've lost weight, feel better, and the food's delicious.

Maybe it's because there is a stereotype with vegans. They always feel the need to push their agenda. Always. You're a perfect example.

seems meat eaters may be pushing back a bit, but vegans have had their activism niche for a good while now.

Meat-eaters are 9000x more annoying than the one loud-mouth vegan you know.

"loud-mouth vegan" I call them first year vegans. Veil has been lifted and they see our entire food industry for what it is. It's absolutely disgusting and deplorable and you can't help but scream about it and hope others will see the awful reality. Check out Tom Robbins diet for a new america if you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvrhQIKanc - never read the book though.

I have never met a single person in my entire life that goes around talking about how great meat is and how much they love it and how much everyone should conform to their personal diet. They just eat what they eat and go on with their life instead of making their diet a part of their identity. It wasnt even necessary to mention until vegans came along and stared shaming everyone for being a part of the food chain

Because meat-eating it isn't a moral philosophy; it is merely the normal diet that most people default to. You may find it annoying but no one is forcing you to conform to a diet. These people take it seriously as an ethical lifestyle, and just like anti-war activists, they may try to shame the pro-war side.

being a part of the food chain

This is the naturalistic fallacy. Just because a thing is "natural" doesn't mean it is desirable, such as illness, old age, and death.

These "annoying vegans" you know are always inexperienced and will most likely give it up in a year anyway. But why does this one vegan post out of a million bother you so much? It really isn't a popular movement at all.

Are you crazy? Food shouldn't be a philosophy. I cannot stand vegans. They're a bunch of hypocrites who treat humans like crap and then do fuck all to champion for animal rights. Do you see vegans at protests for farm animals? Do you see vegans attempting to change farming practices at the federal level or even local level? No! They just become keyboard warriors, harassing people online with their shitty dogma that doesn't even hold up. It's a conspiracy against people and you and other people like you seem to contribute to it.

Why are you so triggered by this? You are conflating diet with an ethical practice of abstaining from animal abuse. All animal advocacy groups have helped to change farming practices for the better at the federal and local level. Ever heard of the animal welfare act? No one is harassing you or telling you what to do in this thread.

You are conflating diet with an ethical practice

I think vegans attach way too much philosophy into veganism and for what? To stop in front of a car holding farm animals? That's really effective at helping animals.

I don't support that kind of direction action activism and no real vegan should.

Veganism is a philosophy though. Learn the definition:

A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

The word "vegan" was invented because "vegetarian" was corrupted, as it now refers to a diet which includes all animal products except meat, and may or may not have any ethical implications.

I'm happy to answer any of your questions as I know a bit about the issues, although I don't really advocate any more. This is a rare vegan conspiracy thread, so it really shouldn't be such a bother to discuss.

Okay so then why can't vegans eat eggs or dairy if they really need to. I see vegans with nutrient deficiencies wanting to eat eggs and dairy because they feel they need to or doctors tell them to, but don't because they don't want to upset the vegan community. What do you say about that? Why is it wrong to do that?

Because that's called "vegetarianism." It's still animal exploitation that results in the death of sentient beings, which runs contrary to the principles of veganism (why the word needed to be invented in the first place). They can call themselves and do whatever they want, but there is no moral distinction between eating meat, eggs, or dairy—all these animals end up in the meat grinder. They're all bled out and tortured while they die, as you need the heart pumping to drain the blood.

I don't care about the vegan community as most of the advocacy groups work hand-in-hand with the industry they supposedly are fighting against. Direction action is equally worthless as you'll never get rid of the demand for these products by attacking the producers. You're just straw-manning by finding extreme and hypocritical examples of a thing you don't seem to understand.

The car you drive, the plane you may sometimes fly in, the clothes you wear, the shoes on your feet, the makeup your mother wears, has all been produced thanks to animals. Maybe you should live in a forest naked. That's literally what some vegans think should happen to avoid hurting animals. So keep pretending to be helping the world or yourself. You do neither.

Take another look at that definition again, especially the part about "practical and possible." The main use of animals is for food, and all of these other industrial uses are by-products of the food industry. Besides there's alternatives for all the products you listed. Shoes, really? The only use that is difficult to argue against is for medicine. At least use an effective argument.

Do you think no one has thought about all of this before? It is perfectly healthy. For all the lurkers who'd like to know more: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

But you have no intention of learning anything and just spout the same old tired cliche objections.

It bothers me cause it's posted on a conspiracy forum and vegans literally never shut up about how evil meat eating is. It's not a damn conspiracy just shut up and eat what you want, And it's not a fallacy... watch any nature documentary ever made. Smarter and faster animals eat dumber and slower ones. Pretty elementary. Life literally would not exist without it. And yeah the way we raise and slaughter animals isn't natural by any means but we're the smartest animals on the planet and have come to dominance so what do you expect

Another naturalistic fallacy. Do defend a life-threatening illness as "natural" or would you attempt to cure it? Life probably wouldn't exist without rape—it is natural—but it's not a desirable thing in human society. This is the fallacy.

There are barely any vegan threads ever posted on this forum. I check every day.

You still don't understand—it's not a diet; it's a moral philosophy. Nobody in this thread told you personally what to do, so I don't know why you're so butthurt.

I'm not butt hurt haha. I'm just sick of constantly being shamed for being an animal participating in the natural order. Yes a disease is natural what does curing it have to do wig being vegan

You're constantly shamed for meat-eating? Please! No one in this thread shamed you. Your only argument is that "something is natural." How do you still not understand the analogy and the fallacy I pointed out?

See how you're getting downvoted and the provegan comments aren't. Look up on youtube, militant vegans. They are two screw loose and then some.

One conspiracy theory I believe in is that the "vegans are obnoxious and always pushing their agenda" circlejerk is pushed by Big Meat ^(lol)

The narrative is so ingrained now that you're accusing OP of "always feeling the need to push their agenda" just because they shared their opinion.

Funny, I was JUST in the bathroom thinking the exact opposite thing... all the plants hadn't digested but the meat was no where to be found...

The problem with that study is they don’t account for the other foods in the diets of the test subjects.

When you exist on mostly carbohydrates and sugars, all you are doing is feeding cancers. If your body is in a state of ketosis, then your body is running on fat, no sugars. Less inflammation. Less cancer.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Now I want a burger.

Pass.

Why are people like you the way that you are

It’s a dietary thing evidently.

Jesus Christ. Can you turn it off for five seconds?

Stop lobbing softballs when I’m in a bad mood. Problem solved.

....

lol bacon

so what's worse...

• Factory farmed animals (cages, antibiotics, grain-fed)? or...
• Big Agriculture veggies (pesticides, gmos, high fructose corn syrup)?

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Finally someone who gets it

still two wrongs though.

As someone who is feeling great on a keto-carnivore diet right now and having eaten vegetables their whole life, I strongly believe that the "fat-free sugar fake food" is why the US is so bad off health-wise. Yet veganism still keeps an open door to the "fat-free sugar fake food", were carnivory seems to push "real meat is all you need". So I think it's just two sides of the same coin.

Do i think veganism is more humane in our current situation? Yes. Do i think vegetable proteins are inferior to animal proteins? Yes.

Whatever diet though, people get tired of "victims", and vegans love to play that card just sayin'.

More saying that everyone plays the substitute game vegans vegetarians ketoers carnivores alike. and sugar/fat-free infiltrates all of them.

the Shawn Baker, that's literally killing himself, is an athletic beast so the strong-man physical taxation on his body will kill him before food does. Having been zero carb for two months, and zero-carb-mixed-keto for 5, there's some thing there athletic wise that you rarely hear on vegan diet.

How are vegans with fasting?

I've read a bit on Rich Roll. Super Vegan to the max. He's a good example how genetics, good diet, and drive can do wonders. The drive part is probably majority of dieters struggle with. I'd like to think that drive will allow you to have success in a plant-only or even a meat-only diet. If there could ever be a square off between all natural plant-only's vs all natural meat-only's. I'd pay to see that.

I think my main gripe is there is just too much noise when it comes to discussing diet. Fabricated, generic, funded, unfunded, colluded, biased, and they all scream "hey this is the best". I'm just for people finding their own truths.

I've been able to do a 36hr and 72hr on the carnivore diet and that was surprisingly easy. I just don't see myself being able to be satiated as long on a plant-based.

I felt totally fine. Did it get me into super ketosis? maybe. I did play a basketball league game after day 2 and was clear headed and energized. I'm not buying the "your body loses muscle when you fast", i'm more in line with the thinking that your body uses your fat stores first, and if you're good at metabolizing those stores even better.

What is better are local or organic versions of those things.

exactly.

Big agriculture Fed with the blood and bones of factory farmed animals no less

Yes, eating meat is the real conspiracy. However the meat eating kids around here will give you an ear full of aggressiveness for pointing this out.

Another thing that mature r/conspiracy people should consider is the black magic/ritual sacrifice aspect of eating meat. Usually the animals are tortured in the extreme before being consumed. This adds to the evil nature of the sacrifice.

For those in denial about how animals are tortured, just watch "Earthlilngs" already. https://vimeo.com/208729582

"Vegan" can still include (and often does) LOTS of processed foods. I feel we need to be more specific: organic, plant-based -- as much of that raw as possible. I personally think eggs are on the menu as well, but... hate to admit it... they should probably be raw too. That's the ideal ancient diet, IMO.

Then you temper that, split the difference, with what your more recent ancestors ate. Like, ask your grandparents what their grandparents ate. And include some of that in your diet. For me, it's fish (Scandinavian) and potatoes (German/Russian).

Then learn about food combining / food sequencing. Don't try to digest two radically different types of food at the same time -- fats & proteins + starches. It takes a completely different digestion for one vs the other.

(This is a bit of a hobby for me -- that is, trying to find and achieve the Perfect Diet for my body.)

Tell that to Jordan Peterson. His carnivore diet has cured all of his and his sister’s physical and even mental ailments.

I'm pretty sure Jordan was doing keto for a few years before trying his new carnivore diet, which is what first piqued my interest (because I would have thought exactly what you did, and just chalked it up to him finally reaching ketosis). I'm interested to see what his test results look like when he gets his blood work done and shares it on Rogan.

As for the other guy, I remember that podcast and also thought the guy was a little out there, but didn't really discredit his info. Personally, someone losing their medical license is no longer a deal breaker with me, once you realize how full of politics and bull shit the entire medical community has become lately. Not following the mainstream scientific dogma can have you cast out of medicine and academia.

Also, are you familiar with the recent research into LDL particle size as it relates to heart disease and similar cardiovascular illnesses? It's really interesting stuff. New research suggests that LDL particle size is a much more accurate identifying factor for being at risk of heart problems. The smaller the particles, the more at risk you are. With a ketogenic diet, even though your LDL levels may read high on the conventional cholesterol tests, your LDL particle size will be much larger than that of someone not in ketosis.

Fascinating stuff. Here and here are two studies that go into it, but I didn't find the one I was looking for (on mobile). If you are at all interested, I can find it for you later. It's a much easier study to digest.

Also interested in any arguments you know of refuting the claim as well. Always looking for different perspectives.

I warship the meat. The blood is sacrament. The bones are offerings.

Meat is life. And life is meat.

Blood for the blood gods and meat for my child.

an opinion piece about food in r/conspiracy ... whelp, time to go outside

Did you not see those illuminati cards and veganism in it? Veganism is a ploy to further divide people, cause chaos, and cause severe nutrient deficiencies. The human body is not made to consume only fruits and vegetables. Most vegans quickly go back with most only last 4-5 years. It is not sustainable and people have become so mentally ill from it, they defame and destroy butcher shops, without so much as making any effort to improve farming conditions or farm practices regarding crops or animals.

No one should stuff their faces with meat. That's unhealthy and hurts the environment. People should eat a lot of fruits and veggies , eggs, and a little bit of meat/fish and dairy. That's a healthy and balanced lifestyle.

The NWO doesn't want anyone to be balanced and healthy. They want them mentally ill.

Don't claim that eating meat leads to obesity. It's eating low quality food and nutrient deficiencies that lead to obesity. You don't see people in Iceland and Japan who are fat. Their food quality is pretty high and they eat meat and eggs.

around you everyone’s obese.

People ate meat for thousands of years. We only now have an obesity problem thanks to low food quality and reliance on carbs more than high quality fats and protein. Even 80 years ago, obesity was rare throughout the entire world.

Excuse me, I'm not saying all meat is good. You are saying all meat is bad. I'm not the extremist here. I'm also not saying one should eat nothing but meat, again you're the one saying that. It will always be insane to me people that people can't understand that eating a little bit of meat and good amount of fruits and veggies can be an option. No, its all or nothing.

Did you not see those illuminati cards and meat eaters in it? The meat industry is a ploy to further control people, cause obesity epidemics and cause severe vascular diseases and cancer. The human body is not made to consume so much fat and cholesterol. Most meat eaters quickly age with most dying 5-10 years earlier than vegans. It is not sustainable and people have become so obese from it, they develop vascular diseases and cancer, destroy public health costs and the entire planet without so much as making any effort to improve farming conditions or farm practices regarding crops or animals.

No one should eat meat or animal products. That's unnecessary and hurts the environment. People should eat a lot of fruits and veggies, no eggs, no meat/fish and especially no dairy. That's the healthiest, most sustainable and most balanced lifestyle.

Look at this video, people paying body builders to say they stopped eating meat.

Yeah...

Look at these videos, industries paying people to say meat and dairy is healthy.

Yeah

This

Is

All

Real

You

Have

Been

Lied

To

Why are you even showing me this? I know how unhealthy low quality meat and dairy is. But I also know how unhealthy low quality vegetables and fruits are. We should be championing for higher food quality rather than splitting and dividing based on food groups. Do you not see why veganism is so dangerous? It keeps you from seeing the big picture of why people are unhealthy and obese. GMOs, pesticides, growth hormones, this is what is killing us. Not being vegan isn't what's killing us.

It wasn't even about the health.

The conspiracy is that meat and dairy companies actively lobbied and practically controlled all studies and commercials on meat and dairy. Of course those companies want to make the public believe meat and dairy are not only healthy, but "an essential part of a healthy diet".

That's why so many people still eat meat and dairy, it's one of the biggest conspiracies there are.

And no, GMO's and pesticides don't cause people to be obese. GMO's aren't even unhealthy, do you even know what they are?

And no, GMO's and pesticides don't cause people to be obese. GMO's aren't even unhealthy, do you even know what they are?

Woah, so you say the studies about meat and dairy are a conspiracy, yet you don't look into Monsanto and the proof that they controlled studies to suggest GMOs and pesticides like Roundup are safe? Okay.........

Again, do you know what GMO's actually are?

Do you know why Monsanto is bad?

It's not because of the health concerns, it's because of the patent concerns. Monsanto patents every GMO and seed and whatnot they can, thereby monopolizing the entire industry and extorting many smaller companies.

GMO's themselves are not dangerous at all, we've been making GMO's for thousands of years by cross-breeding. Lab GMO's is doing the exact same thing; making an improved version of a plant by changing its genome.

Yes, the human body needs more than just fruits and vegetables; it also needs grains and legumes. But if you balance that all out, you can have an ideal diet, at low cost, which tastes great and is good for the Earth.

Now I eat lots of eggs, and butter, but staying vegetarian has been very easy for me. There is no rational argument for eating meat that makes sense; sure, people say it tastes good, but just because something pleases your senses and feelings isn't a valid reason to ingest it. If it were, heroin and crack would be good. There are a lot of things people enjoy that are bad for them, but if enough people around them do it, it somehow feels socially acceptable. We have a social tradition of eating meat, so the bulk of our population accepts it as normal without critical thought. And for people in developing nations, I understand the physical need for the nutrition meat provides; they don't have significant alternatives. But the developed world needs to outgrow its lust for flesh (and sweets); it's not sustainable, and our obesity and heart disease rates prove it.

Do not preach to me. You have your ideals that fine. Vegetarianism is sustainable but vegetarians don't have a high quality of life, you see that in India. That being said, eat what you eat, don't preach to me.

India’s problem is overpopulation, sanitation and pollution. Ironic that you don’t want to be preached to, then start debating me with faulty evidence.

Are you kidding me? You can do the research on India's health and vegetarianism. By the way, they eat a lot of butter and oil to get enough calories. Anyway, the same crappy logic you pointed out is the same crappy logic applied by vegans. OH but you're unhealthy because you eat meat. No...it's because the good quality in some countries are low.

It is not sustainable

“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. “It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

I think we’re conditioned not to have empathy for other animals and that’s why meat-eating is so normalized. We’re taught to see animals as exploitable stock because in truth that’s how the rulers see us.

We evolved to see them that way because it was beneficial for our species to eat them.................. .

People don't have compassion for other people. The least compassionate people I've met are vegan.

You know chickens will keep making eggs, even if stop eating them

That is so far off dude they make way more eggs than 20 a year. More like 100-150 but it declines as the chicken ages.

Yes....When was the last time there was a significant population of "wild hens" that lay 12 eggs a year. People have been domesticating chickens for fuckin millennia. Who cares that they selectively bred them to make them more productive. You wouldnt have all these adorable dog breeds or varieties of delicous fuckin melons without it. Chickens are inferior creatures, a delicious bird that cant even fly and lays 300 eggs a year that are also delicous... most of which are not even fertilized and have no chance of becoming another chicken. Really dumb and easy to corral. Seems like an easy candidate for mass slaughter sorry bud.

Birth controls not natural either

this is the most important conspiracy, yet no one wants to know.... if humans eat alive food filled with vitamins and minerals they get healthy. if they eat death they get sick. anyone can try it for themselves. yet when people get sick they take expensive drugs?!?! or chop bits off themselves expensively. mad world.

Okay but.... meat is pretty good. And cheese?? Don't even get me started on how good cheese is.

Yeah I've seen the documentaries. Food inc, Cowspiracy, ect. and I get what your saying about our associations of meat. But I think we can agree that cows and dogs are different. Humans and dogs have literally evolved side by side. We have a physical connection with dogs. We dont really have that with cows, as they were largely domesticated to serve as food. But the main issue I have with veganism is that it claims to be this all natural from the earth kind of deal, but eating animals is natural, it's the most natural thing. Animals eat other animals all the time. Since humans are at the top of the food chain, why shouldn't we eat animals too? Granted, I defintly do not agree with mass production of meat (or non meat items for that matter),but unless you have a decent income it is really difficult for the average family to eat an entirely organic, naturally grown, GMO free vegan diet. Add to the fact that I cannot have soy due to a medical condition and I dont really have a ton of options for meat substitutes. All in all, I really don't care that you, or anyone else is vegan. More power to ya! What I do care about though, is anyone else assuming they know what is best for me. Which, unfortunately, has been the majority of my experience with vegans.

I'm not actually allergic to soy, I have a reproductive disorder and soy really throws off my female hormones. Also, interestingly enough I'm not a huge meat eater to begin with. I'll have to disagree with you about the nature fallacy. Can't be a fallacy if it's true. Psychologically and instincually we are not like animals, you're right. But, I would argue that physically we are still pretty similar. Similar organs, similar digestive tracts (although I'd like to point out that the digestive tract of a human more closely resembles that of a carnivore/omnivore than it does an herbavore) Also, I dont cringe at death. I was raised with A LOT of animals. Chickens, dogs, cats, goats, horses, fish, ect. and I was raised knowing that death is a natural part of life. That's not to say that I didn't mourne when my animals died, but I definetly understood that there is a cycle to nature. Also, I'm not sure where you're from, but I find it nessecary to mention that I'm from Texas and I'll admit that my views have probably been shaped in large part to the community I've grown up in. I also know plenty of guys who prefer their meat as raw as possible (my husband, FIL, and many friends eat their steaks still bloody) As humans, through our evolution (evolution that was fueled by distant ancestors eating meat) we have in a sense won the right to have an advanced society with guns, airplanes and cars. It is now through our advanced society that we are able to maintain our place at the top of the food chain. I buy and eat as healthy as I can. We grow a few veggies and have pet chickens to get fresh eggs. I buy only local produce and meat when I can, I try to buy organic where it counts most but it's still an awful lot of money. I also have to partially blame that on veganism/vegetarianism becoming so mainstream. The citizens created a demand, and the producers now know that can pretty much charge what they want and people will still buy it. Side note: I really do appreciate your links and also that we are able to have a civil debate about this.

Meat isn't bad. Excess of it is. Try to live somewhere in north europe at winter time, without fatty fish/meat.

Carnism caused brain matter expansion and evolution.

LOL.

The biggest thing this day and age is the neglect of proper diet, which means more veggies and fruits which means more antioxidants, do you know taking vitamin C after eating red meat stops ALL the ROS that are created, including nitrosamines, etc.

Factory farmed meat is the real problem. We'll tackle the rest once this shit is solved. For now, just avoid the crap and fast/intermittent fast often. Helps the body clear itself up very quickly.

the biggest problem with our meats is corn. cows get fucked up from eating corn, they are meant to eat grass. try grass fed beef and you can literally taste/feel the difference.

besides a hunter trying to hunt wild game, what do you think is the most humane way for us to slaughter animals for meat? if i may add, it should be cost efficient.

The least we can do, or the least I can do is to make sure to kill it quick and fast. It may be a bullet to the head, it might be a sledgehammer to the skull. Anything to make sure that the animal is done quick so it doesn't have to suffer more than it has to. Granted i've only killed a chicken here and there, i am not speaking from experience when talking about a cow or a pig, but i wouldn't feel remorse to be quite frank.

i am very familiar with the chinese dog meat trade ( i am korean). I am all for these guys to eat dog meat. it's a part of their culture. hell i've even tried dog before, but what bothers me is that especially in china, many of these dogs are stolen from homes and are not bred and raised for meat. secondly, there is this myth in asia that if you torture the dogs before killing them the meat tastes better. this is my problem with it. beating them to death, throwing them alive in boiling water, you name it they do it. Humans will always eat meat, all i want is for us to go and take the extra step to make sure these animals can at least die quick with the least amount of pain possible as ironic as it may sound.
I respect the fact that you want to challenge me, but i'm a pretty avid follower in /r/watchpeopledie. death is something that interests me so i won't be looking away or pausing videos. i won't watch kids though, that's where i draw the line.

if you look at the subreddit, the comments usually consist of people being grateful that they are born in a first world country where a lot of these atrocities will never take place. i watch some of these stuff because yes it does fascinate me but also to know that there are parts of the world where human rights do not exist. we have come so far as humans but we have so much left to do.

okay see i wasn’t sure if co2 levels would cause unconsciousness before the panic set in

"loud-mouth vegan" I call them first year vegans. Veil has been lifted and they see our entire food industry for what it is. It's absolutely disgusting and deplorable and you can't help but scream about it and hope others will see the awful reality. Check out Tom Robbins diet for a new america if you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvrhQIKanc - never read the book though.

I have never met a single person in my entire life that goes around talking about how great meat is and how much they love it and how much everyone should conform to their personal diet. They just eat what they eat and go on with their life instead of making their diet a part of their identity. It wasnt even necessary to mention until vegans came along and stared shaming everyone for being a part of the food chain

It wasn't even about the health.

The conspiracy is that meat and dairy companies actively lobbied and practically controlled all studies and commercials on meat and dairy. Of course those companies want to make the public believe meat and dairy are not only healthy, but "an essential part of a healthy diet".

That's why so many people still eat meat and dairy, it's one of the biggest conspiracies there are.

And no, GMO's and pesticides don't cause people to be obese. GMO's aren't even unhealthy, do you even know what they are?

India’s problem is overpopulation, sanitation and pollution. Ironic that you don’t want to be preached to, then start debating me with faulty evidence.

Because that's called "vegetarianism." It's still animal exploitation that results in the death of sentient beings, which runs contrary to the principles of veganism (why the word needed to be invented in the first place). They can call themselves and do whatever they want, but there is no moral distinction between eating meat, eggs, or dairy—all these animals end up in the meat grinder. They're all bled out and tortured while they die, as you need the heart pumping to drain the blood.

I don't care about the vegan community as most of the advocacy groups work hand-in-hand with the industry they supposedly are fighting against. Direction action is equally worthless as you'll never get rid of the demand for these products by attacking the producers. You're just straw-manning by finding extreme and hypocritical examples of a thing you don't seem to understand.

i am very familiar with the chinese dog meat trade ( i am korean). I am all for these guys to eat dog meat. it's a part of their culture. hell i've even tried dog before, but what bothers me is that especially in china, many of these dogs are stolen from homes and are not bred and raised for meat. secondly, there is this myth in asia that if you torture the dogs before killing them the meat tastes better. this is my problem with it. beating them to death, throwing them alive in boiling water, you name it they do it. Humans will always eat meat, all i want is for us to go and take the extra step to make sure these animals can at least die quick with the least amount of pain possible as ironic as it may sound.
I respect the fact that you want to challenge me, but i'm a pretty avid follower in /r/watchpeopledie. death is something that interests me so i won't be looking away or pausing videos. i won't watch kids though, that's where i draw the line.