Does your conspiracy also include the operators and tourists (of which I am one) who schedule routine holidays to the North Pole?

Brilliant. Please make this viral.

I showed you a website that will allow YOU (or anyone else) to travel there and see what it's like for yourself. If you don't trust the words of an internet stranger, why not book the holiday and see for yourself?

(There are a few different companies that do this if you don't trust my link)

If this was legitimately the North Pole and all people can go

It is and anyone can.

If it's outdated information that's an issue, it's probably the person quoting maps from before the year 1500 that you should take another look at.

The map he is referring to doesnt show the north pole, it shows Antarctica coast line ice free.

The Controversy – the Piri Reis map of Antarctica

The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica ice free. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how the Piri Reis Antarctica map managed to so accurate 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the real coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC.

​

the Piri Reis map of Antarctica

Having looked this up, I'm not sure why anyone is claiming "northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed" It's quite clearly not. Only that it indicates parts of the Antarctica shoreline were visited and mapped far earlier than thought.

The map has lots of anomalies world wide, misplaced or duplicate islands and scale errors attributed to it using multiple different maps as it's source.

And not just small errors either, the entire coastline of North America is wrong, possibly because Piri Reis confused it with source maps showing parts of Asia (or just made it up, opinions differ for the reasons why is so wrong).

It's not even the most accurate map of the 16th century. Far more notable maps are to be found by cartographers such as Diogo Ribeiro maps from 1518-1532. Abraham Ortelius's world map of 1570 (in which he theorised that the continents were once joined together and had since drifted apart) and finally by the English mathematician Edward Wright who had a principle role in us dividing the world up into latitudes to make navigation and cartography much more accurate.

As for why map makers don't map ice. Ice moves. What would be the point? It would be as silly as mapping clouds.

In reference to navigation in Arctic or Antarctic waters, what you need to know are the latitudes where ice is likely to form and then use the mark 1 eyeballs of a man in the crows nest to spot it when you are in that area.

(A technique still in use in 1912 when the Titanic sank.)

It's only since the advent of radar (post WWII) that can see over the horizon that we can now accurately plot where ice is at any given moment.

I really think the Piri Reis map is a case of either people not understanding what they are looking at (maps from that time take a bit of working out as they aren't presented like modern maps), or people wilfully being deceptive in order to sell books (somewhat of an annoyance in the world of conspiracies).

I wouldnt worry to much about the north pole, pretty sure they are hiding it becaues they dont want people figuring out the ice is really gonna be gone in another 20-80 years. Lots of tours and research bases up there recording the weird weather.

The south pole is the more interesting one, part of it is green now, but from what I heard if you try to go down there on your own and explore, your gonna meet some military.

Come visit Antarctica...but only see what we allow you to see.

Sounds like North Korea

To be fair, there isn't much to see given it's a floating ice sheet.

It being midnight with the sun still clearly visible is kind of spectacular in it's own right though, especially as you can see it circle around you as the day goes by.

Antarctica is the largest unexplored land mass on this planet, how can you say for sure what is and what isnt there?

Satellite imagery and scientific exploration

It is also largely unexplored because it is a big sheet of ice with deadly blizzards

There isn't much to see since it's mainly just ice, but how about watching the livecam so you can see what's up for yourself?

Seriously, I don't understand why people think the poles are so mysterious. Anyone can visit the north and the south one is visited by thousands of scientists every year who continuously come back with more and more information about it presented publicly.

How about a 2013 video of what Antarctica looks like without an ice cover?

There's so much publicly available information about the poles now that either you've not read any material newer than the 1980's, or you are getting all of your information from terrible sources.

Are you talking about the north pole which is in the middle of a sea, or the one that is not the north pole at all and on some land they told you is the north pole?

I'm talking about standing on the part of the world where the sun travels horizontally around you and not up and down (And you need an icebreaker ship to get there).

I'd say that's about as much evidence as it's possible to have that we were at the actual North Pole and not some trick that was played on all the passengers (who all brought our own sextants/GPS's/radio positioners anyway, because of course we did, the ship was filled will fellow geeks)

Yes I know what you mean but look at a globe, map or google earth or whatever and all you will see is sea. Very odd because a few years back I watched Top Gear and they allegedly drove to the pole. But clearly you can't

Long post, I narrated it while watching the Top Gear episode, so I rambled on a bit, sorry for not cutting it further.

We went in the middle of summer when the ice sheet is at it's smallest and thinnest, yet we were in solid ice much earlier than we expected and never saw the sea again till we got back.

Watching the Top Gear episode myself now (I hadn't been the pole yet when it was first shown, they seem to have deleted the scene where they are drinking a gin and tonic, what a shame), I can see nothing in it that shows it to be false.

They went earlier or later in the year when the ice is still thick and locked to land, but even in the height of summer, we saw chunks of ice being broken up by the ship that were six feet thick (bear in mind the ice roads of Alaska are opened at four feet thickness for huge trucks pulling 60+ ton loads), the vehicles they were in would have had no problem.

but look at a globe, map or google earth or whatever and all you will see is sea.

First off, if you can show me a physical globe that doesn't have the attachment that lets the globe spin around that doesn't completely obscure both poles then I will give you actual money (not really) as I've never found one.

I did find a blow up one that showed the south pole, but guess where they decided to fit the valve?

(Edit: You won't believe the amount of ranting I've had to edit out, guess who brought a blow up globe on holiday with him to the north pole before checking? ;) )

So you are mainly talking about Google maps/Earth.

Google earth doesn't display ice because these images are taken by radar imagers that pass harmlessly through ice (satellite cameras over the poles would be blind for six months of the year each time the sun shone on them if they used traditional lenses) and then the data is processed by a computer into what looks like a photograph so we can understand what we are looking at. (but it's not a photograph in the sense of light hitting film. It hits digital senses instead in the same way your phone produces images.)

Subsequently you have excellent views of the ocean floors of the entire globe, with no surface water of the sea or frozen ice sheet to block your view.

Visiting the ice sheet where for most of the year it firmly grasps land, is much easier and cheaper to visit than the poles if you have problems believing it's there. Just head north.

Thank you for the time you took to write that. I will bow to your better judgement. Should I find a globe without the poles being obscured I will certainly let you know

That Top Gear episode was weird though

The thing about Top Gear that always sets off my irony bone is that the bits that are scripted and the bits that a real often get confused.

They really did try to launch a Robin Reliant into space a la NASA Space Shuttle mode and they really did drive to the North Pole (in massively adapted vehicles by an Icelandic company that specialises in driving in extreme Arctic conditions).

When google earth first came out, I clearly remember it showing the ice sheets at the north pole (and the true north pole is shifting faster every year)

Finding the North Pole means traveling north, right? Yes, but with a slight caveat: Earth's northern pole is drifting rapidly eastward, and it looks like climate change is to blame. The discovery may have major implications for studies of ice loss and drought, potentially improving our ability to predict such changes in the future.

Google earth mainly works by using imaging telescopes on satellites (just visible light), they have some of the undersea area's mapped out, but only because they paid boats to drag sensors around the bed of the ocean. So i dont know what your talking about that their telescopes cant see ice, because thats the first time I have heard of that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Retconned/comments/6zieuj/google_earth_never_showed_the_north_pole/

There are lots of people there who remember google earth in 2003? We all remember very clearly a north pole being shown, somewhere around 2005 they got rid of it, with the only explanation, that they never showed it to begin with (yeah right).

​

I figured they didnt want your average schmuck loading it up and going, holy shit the ice is melting so fast up there.

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Planes, operators, tourists, etc. fly and walk around magnetic north and south poles, far away from geographic poles. https://np.reddit.com/r/HOLLOWEARTH/comments/94s26x/location_of_polar_openings/ Geographic poles are forbidden for the public to travel to. Geographic poles are actually polar openings and are located at the rotation axis of the earth and all other planets. Polar openings are natural formation, a phenomenon caused by centrifugal force generated by the rotation of the planets.

https://steemit.com/youtube/@etcmike/what-s-going-on-in-antarctica-here-is-steve-quayle-s-opinion

https://www.ats.aq/e/ats.htm

https://www.adventure-life.com/antarctica (Only way a ordinary citizen can go is on a controlled/guided tours) hmmmm

Only way a ordinary citizen can go is on a controlled/guided tours

All kinds of solo adventurers quite literally walk and car and dogsled around the place every year. No clandestine BJs necessary.

The tours just cement the fact that there's nothing controversial or forbidden to the affair, whatsoever: when every pleb with a few bucks burning a hole in their pocket can go there as they please.

https://explore.quarkexpeditions.com/blog/traveling-solo-to-antarctica-2

https://www.quarkexpeditions.com/en/antarctic

Like I said, controlled/guided. You have to pay a minimum of $6,000, then they only take you to the South Shetland Islands and Antarctica Peninsula. So, if Antarctica is 5.4 Million Square miles...Why are people only allowed to see 4,497 square miles of it? .00083% of the entire continent. I rest my case

"have to" "only allowed" etc etc

Only if you go with that company. You're free to go without, or even solo at that.

Plenty people have before and plenty more will in the future.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/news/2017/01/11/swedish-nurse-fastest-female-solo-ski-south-pole/

One cannot go to Antarctica without booking it first with a company. Sure, once they drop you off at a certain location they will let you roam solo.

Find me a example of Avg Joe, who uses his own boat or plane, that is allowed to go to Antarctica without booking it.

Find me a example of Avg Joe, who uses his own boat or plane, that is allowed to go to Antarctica without booking it.

Swedish example: Göran Kropp and Ola Skinnarmo went without any company booking, guide, "protection". Kropp got into legal troubles due to an incident with a polar bear, but Skinnarmo made the trek just fine.

I'd say anyone with the willpower and testicular fortitude to actually get off their ass and do the "impossible" isn't exactly the Average Joe, but both were as far away from elite/high-government/money as it gets.

Göran Kropp http://www.nepal-dia.de/Aktuelle_Lage_/Goran_Kropp/goran_kropp.html

Never Went to Antarctica

Ola, needed permission

Needing permission is a type of control

I know that. Ola Skinnarmo completed the journey. Kropp got frostbite and quit.

There's nothing there about permission?

Parties to the Antarctic Treaty have agreed to restrict human access to 16 areas of special scientific or environmental value in Antarctica.

The 32-nation group, responsible for regulating human activity on the frozen continent, also moved closer to adopting a standard procedure for measuring the harm being done to the environment by scientists.

Delegates at the 13th consultative assembly on the treaty decided to ask an independent research group to determine whether new types of protected areas should be developed. Currently, only regions deemed to be of scientific or environmental importance can be protected under the treaty, leaving other regions open to unchecked human activity.

The measures were approved here Friday, at the end of the two-week conference that focused on assessing the growing environmental impact of scientific activity in Antarctica and adapting the treaty itself to a new climate of heightened Antarctic interest. The lure of mineral exploitation in Antarctica has prompted some countries to begin research activity there, while other nations have increased the scope of their existing experimentation.

​

Off-limits to national exploitation and building =/= Off-limits to human interaction altogether

The claim was that you - John/Jane Q Random - couldn't just walk about Antarctica as you please, without some organizational/secretive support taking you there or vouching for you.

That claim wasn't true. If you feel something is untoward about the region, you can head on up and check for yourself.

Honestly, why are you people so invested in the notion that travel is barred that you just won't google "solo north pole"?

Off-limits to national exploitation and building =/= Off-limits to human interaction altogether

The claim was that you - John/Jane Q Random - couldn't just walk about Antarctica as you please, without some organizational/secretive support taking you there or vouching for you.

That claim wasn't true. If you feel something is untoward about the region, you can head on up and check for yourself.

Honestly, I'm not invested enough to chase moving goalposts and to go in deep on whatever your personal reasons for insisting "unassisted" travel to the north pole is impossible.

Pre-1500 maps are not really the best source of any evidence.... Australia was guessed as a great south land, South America was partly mapped, California was still considered an island. So no sign of Antarctica does not mean it isnt there, it just means western map makers hadn’t drawn it, or if they had it didn’t last the ages. The Arctic was ice free a very long time ago and with global warming may well be again soon. Which leads to interesting shipping passages from Europe /NA/ Asia. But you can drive on the North Pole it’s just on ice. Antarctica is a huge landmass under the ice (about the size of the US and Mexico). Due to plate tectonics and higher CO2 levels it did once support tropical life and may do once again. Aside from being a tourist you can go and work on Antarctica. It is really good pay, they are always after skilled trades people as well as scientists. Carpenters and plumbers are always in high demand. I know a few people who work 6 months there and then live a good life for the other 6 months before repeating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HOLLOWEARTH/comments/9guzu4/light_from_the_inner_sun_of_jupiter_nasa_failed/

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all a bit passe now, so very early 2018.