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You say the world isn't black and white and yet your arguments are based upon that perception. There are secret societies that control everything, and then there are those who see through the veil of illusion. That sounds black and white to me, and that coupled with your incorrect facts and ridiculous assumptions really leaves your argument hanging out to dry.

This is the problem right here, you're attacking his "argument." Attack the evidence instead. The things he said are not concocted ideas, they are conclusions drawn from evidence, so instead of attacking his conclusions for not fitting into your worldview, go look at the evidence to see if his conclusions are valid. You don't approach an idea by first denying it.

You're implying that we glamorize ourselves by "seeing through the veil of illusion." No, we don't, we glamorize ourselves with what everyone should be doing, looking at the god damn evidence. It's clear as day, but it's an uphill fight to get a single person to even consider these ideas in the first place.

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I find it important to have the discussion at all, which in my country (germany) is illegal and can me jail time, which shows me, that there is something wrong about the official history, which I am not supposed to question, so I do it.

Germany just gave two Dolphin atomic subs to Israel, so my tax monex goes into the next mass genocide....

This is what Gunter Grass is going on about, and it is valid. How crazy is it that Germany, a seemingly enlightened nation, can actually put people into prison for discussing various historical events that took place between 1939 and 1945? I mean, it's CRAZY. Anyone with any objectivity can see that it is insane, yet it is not even debated in any widespread manner. Mind you, Jewish control of the media is responsible for much of the lack of public debate on the subject, but fear and irrational guilt is probably responsible for the rest of it.

It would be so ironic if Israel used its German subs to launch nuclear warheads against some city, killing hundreds of thousands of human beings, wouldn't it? Gunter Grass gets the irony of it, and I hope other Germans do as well.

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The dude is a Zionist. You're wasting your time...

OP, maybe you should hug it out.

You asked the question in your post as it's tone is, "hey enlighten me r/conspiracy." Now you attack people that have actual information and highlights for you to research. What gives?

If you are seeking help, why attack those that want to help? Kind of a dick move.

What gives? This burke never had any intention of actually seeking information, or even opinions. He just wants to get something he can use against specific posters in future.

You ask a question, get a (not judging its authenticity) seemingly well-reasoned answer with facts to back it up and you respond by calling him a Nazi? Drone is an appropriate name.

You sound like a Zionist Hasbara shill. Very much so.

Did you watch parts 11 - 13 of this video yet:

http://onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Try watching 'Buchenwald', 'One Third of the Holocaust' (especially parts 11 -13), or 'Nazi Shrunken Heads' and you will get a good summary of the evidence.

My answer to this is that the common jewish people were sacrficed by the zionist elite with the purpose of creating an untouchable "race" and creating the (historically illegitimate) state of Israel, and the sacrifice was to Lucifer.

Good points. Holocaust means an offering to God that is wholly consumed by fire upon the altar. Most sacrifices of meat were eaten by the worshippers -- God got only a few specific bits of the animal -- but in the case of a holocaust, God got everything and the worshipers ate nothing.

It's pretty evident from their acts that if Jews are the Chosen People, they aren't the chosen of the highest God, but of something else with more materialistic, crass purposes.

So, anyone reflecting on this should ask themselves the following: 1. who was sacrificed?

Elisabeth de Rothschild http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_de_Rothschild

Elisabeth de Rothschild (née de Chambure) (March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family. Born in Paris as Elisabeth Pelletier de Chambure, into a wealthy Catholic aristocratic family whose roots were in the Burgundy region. In 1934, immediately after her divorce from her first husband, Jonkeer Marc Edouard Marie de Becker-Rémy, a Belgian aristocrat, she married her lover, Baron Philippe de Rothschild, a member of the prominent Rothschild family and the owner of one of France's most famous vineyards...

She was the only Rothschild to die in the Holocaust or during WW2.

Ravensbrück concentration camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravensbr%C3%BCck

whats to deny.... it happened and we know it happened. Perhaps some of the details are different but we know for a fact that it actually happened.

Exaggerated at least.

All tales of defeated foes are colored by the fact that the winners write the history.

Funny you should ask this, because tonight I ran across this gem.

Edgar J Steele claims that by the Jews own count in the World Jewish Encyclopedia there were only 2.4 million jews in germany before the war. 3.8 million jews got compensation from the german government for surviving the holocaust. Tragically, he claims, the remaining 6 million jews were lost.

Is this true, I am having trouble finding anything.

The dude is an admitted anti-Semite who was caught cheating on his wife, so we know he is a bold-faced liar. But that says nothing about if this is true or not. I need to know, even if I need to call him personally. Can anyone help me on this?

I don't know much about the claims you're talking about here, or the numbers involved, so this is just off the top of my head; but, I would have no problem accepting those numbers considering a big part of the problem the world had against Nazi Germany was their invading other countries. So there were only 2.8M Jews in Germany? How many in Poland, Czechia, Austria, Hungary, Luxembourg, Netherlands, France, etc.?

I will say, however, Israel and the Zionists whom have controlled the nation since it's inception, are perhaps the most untrustworthy people on the planet.

One must look at who funded both sides of WWII...

One must look at who funded both sides of WWII...

The funding of atrocities (especially war profiteering) is the first thing I look at. And, in this particular situation ("the holocaust"), it appears that the Rothschilds bankrolled Hitler/Germany before, during, and after WWII and made enormous profits doing so (i.e., If you aren't seeing it yet, it appears that the Rothschilds funded, and profited from, this particular slaughter of Jews.).

Indeed, and they justified it by "returning" to Israel...

i don't doubt certain events happened and people died. nor do i believe ONE thing happened over and other (no one knows) i DO on the other hand, doubt the number of deaths and certain portrayals of the camps for instance did you know almost every concentration camp had orchestras, singing clubs and theater troops? 100% of which were exclusive to the prisoners only supplied for by the nazis? like i said i don't doubt people died but does it make sense that people would go through so much bullshit for people they knew they were going to kill ALL of which seems to be overlooked in every media covered account of it. it just all seems kinda off in my humble opinion.

I know it's not the most organized of responses and i apologize for it, but you can find the first hand accounts of prisoners talking about the Orchestras and theater groups here and as far the singing groups go, i'm afraid i don't remember where i read it so i do apologize for that. (but two out of 3 aint bad haha)

Indeed.

There is no documentary evidence for an exterminationist policy as carried out by the government in WW2... not a single written order.

There was no airtight seal in the alleged extermination chambers (not where you want to be putting poison gas)

Zyklon B started its life out as a disinfectant

Scientists doing soil tests at the alleged extermination sites have found no evidence for cyanide

"The Auschwitz Museum maintains, not too surprisingly, that Poland's acid rain had eliminated the cyanide. This flies in the face of the scientific fact that the "Prussian blue", the compound formed by cyanide and iron in the bricks and mortar, is one of the most stable and enduring compounds (discoloratation is perhaps a better word) known to man. The late Dr. William Lindsey, Chief Research Chemist for Dupont of America stated that this combination of Zyklon B with iron could last thousands of years in rain, sleet and open air. This telling blue stain is clearly seen today in disinfection chambers, but not in the so-called "gas chambers" at Auschwitz. We are now asked by the Holocaust Hucksters to believe that the rain selectively washed out the evidence of the so-called "gas chambers" but left the evidence where vermin had been killed. Believable? So is the Easter Bunny. "

"Over a period of 25 years, Lüftl was regularly called in court cases as an expert witness involving engineering and construction matters. In 1992 Lüftl wrote a report calling the alleged extermination of millions of Jews in gas chambers during WWII "technically impossible." Lüftl also pointed out that the design and numbers of the crematories showed that they were incapable of handling the number of "gassed" victims routinely alleged by the Holocaust Lobby. "Corpses are not flammable material," wrote Lüftl. "to cremate them requires much time and energy. . . " none of which the Germans had in limitless abundance. Lüftl was criminally charged in Austria - where "Holocaut Denial" is a criminal offense - for writing this report "denying the Holocaust." but all charges against him were quietly dropped. "

"The Rudolf Report - Germar Rudolf, a diplom chemist in Germany trained at the Max Planck Institute, a famous German facility, investigated the sites of the alleged homicidal gas chambers of Auschwitz and took samples for the purpose of determining cyanide levels. Rudolf's report concluded, like Leuchter's, that the alleged gas chambers could never have been used for the claimed mass gassings on an industrial scale. Tests on samples showed no or minimal traces of cyanide. Germar Rudolf is a special case and illustrates that when it comes to the so-called "gas chambers" of places such as Auschwitz, society no longer deals in rationality and reason. Here is a young, profoundly apolitical young man with a new family and no links whatsoever to any political, much less "extremist" group - like "Holocaust Deniers." He wrote a treatise on his findings that is impeccable. He submitted his report to more than 300 experts for their critique before he published it. Not one of them found even the smallest error! Germar Rudolf was criminally charged under Germany's repressive "Holocaust-is-a-dogma" law. Just a few weeks ago, Germar Rudolf has been sentenced to a prison term of 18 months for his scientific finding. The book he wrote has been banned in Germany, and many people connected to its publication have been punished with jail terms and/or fines. The report has been ordered to be destroyed. This brilliant scientist, with a young, pregnant wife and a baby already born, has been evicted twice from his apartment for his "sin." He is now in political exile - his career ruined and his life in shreds."

Well believe what you want to believe... I used to totally buy into the holocaust myth (all my life)... now I hardly know what to think...

Watch "Last Days of the Big Lie" (easily found on youtube) which contains a moving account of a black american soldier liberating a camp (which we now know to have been liberated by the russians) the truth is anyone can concoct emotionally charged stories...

The human skin lampshade idea emerged sometime soon after Germany surrendered... but its now considered even by Exterminationist Historians to be a myth... well doesn't that in itself stink?

If you want the most evidence filled, most cited and sadly most difficult to sit through revisionist documentary... then look no farther than "One Third of the Holocaust" (again easily found on youtube) if you can actually sit through this all the way to the end you will have some very unsettling thoughts... but I'm sure you'll just switch it off after 10 minutes... after all its far easier to imagine that these people have all been brainwashed (or have some illogical hatred towards jews) than to actually put in the intellectual time and effort to look through these claims yourself

you see the establishment very clearly wants noone to question this... that's why they put to jail anyone who does... most people that should be revealing this shit to us (scholars, journalists, scientists) either don't know the evidence or if they do... they know how the boat works and they ain't about to rock it...

I'm sorry but the holocaust is the biggest mind game that we're all forced to participate in... it takes a strong character to stop being victimised and step aside in laughter (the true victims of the holocaust... are the rest of the world for buying into it, and wasting their emotional energy on it... no scratch that the true victims of the holocaust are those who truly believe they are trying to do the right thing by saying hey somethings weird here before getting promptly thrown in jail)

like I said believe what you want to believe... the important thing is nearly 99% of what we're told about everything is lies... not just the holocaust... but its done in such a way as to be easily sucked in... its not even a question of intellect... its a question of how vunerable are you to social forces... and the simple fact of the matter is we're most of us (like it or not) extremely vulnerable (everyone else is just very vulnerable)

of all the lies we've been fed in our existence here on planet earth... the holocaust has to be one of the most profound

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--ekR6jG4Iwk/Tw4zvKN4RCI/AAAAAAAAAn0/IX-VBCUOUvs/s1600/didnt-read-lol-chicken-gif.gif

Go here:

http://onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Try watching 'Buchenwald', 'One Third of the Holocaust' (especially parts 11 -13), or 'Nazi Shrunken Heads' and you will get a good summary of the evidence.

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ESPECIALLY if you're going to jail for questioning it.

Personally, the holocaust and the events surrounding it is something I will leave to the scholars and historians... it's just too far removed for me. However, upon the principles of free speech, free thought and the universal principle of enlightenment, I find it abhorrent that people go to jail for their thoughts, statements or beliefs, no matter how incendiary they are.

12 million?

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Not all r/conspiracy redditors are the same, the generalization of all r/conspiracy redditors being anti-Israel and racist feeds into these notions of a grand anti-jewish sentiment in r/conspiracy and it sickens me.

It's simple to point a finger and generalize, but hard to do research and acknowledge that an entire group and subreddit of people are not all the same.

generalization of all r/conspiracy redditors being anti-Israel and racist

That generalization itself is racist. The ADL, for instance, is the biggest group of racists openly operating in the U.S.

Fair enough. I am curious too and why I am reading the thread. But I think you made a bit of a leap in your last two paragraphs. Nobody said any of those things. At least not yet.

Well, you'll certainly get no argument from me about denial being ridiculous.

The fact that any and all ideas are on the table makes for good discussion and freedom. I'm sorry if you disagree with our freedom to think and say whatever we want, but this is r/conspiracy.

Kinda slipped that expanded number in there didn't he. A little slippery if you ask me. Why would he do that?

Oops, you overstated your position again

Yeh right! Simply denying the holocaust can make it so any of us CAN'T TRAVEL TO EUROPE without having to worry about ridiculous "hate speech" laws, and jail...

Even things we've said here in America, can be prosecuted there...

Huh? Perhaps you're a bit confused? Is your sugar off, are you diabetic?

Let me tell you something. If I could snap my fingers, and magically make EVERY LAST JEW ON EARTH disappear. I WOULDN'T HAVE TO THINK TWICE...

And the world rejoiced

What you've asked is not only a loaded question, but a meaningless question. It can't be answered.

For one thing, everyone has their own conception of what the term Holocaust means. These conceptions differ.

For another thing, different people have different ideas what "denial" means in this context. Is it denial to disagree with even one of the many tenets of the standard, approved Holocaust dogma? Or is it only denial when every single tenet is flatly denied?

The people who ask the question you've asked are usually Hasbara Zionists who are seeking something they can use against other individuals, as a way of silencing them.

When you get right down to it, the Holocaust is only an invented term, drawn from Jewish folklore and Talmudic lore, that has been applied to a collection of separate events that happened during World War II. Some of the events claimed under the Holocaust umbrella term may not even have actually happened; or at least, there is reason enough for some individuals to doubt that they occurred. Other events may have been wildly exaggerated. The purpose or meaning of still other events under the Holocaust umbrella may have been misinterpreted by Zionists after the War.

One point that should be made on this subject is that mainstream history texts about the Holocaust are not to be trusted. This subject is so loaded with emotionalism, and even hysteria, that historians are not free to write all the truth as they find it, but must conform to the approved dogma. You can no more trust the history books on the Holocaust than you can trust the mainstream media on the subject of Israel.

"The first casualty of war is the truth" and "history is written by the victors" these 2 quotes should remind us that during war there IS a lot of war propaganda that may or may not be true and we as the victors got to write our version of history and it would be in our best interest to look the best we could and the other side as evil as possible. So no I'm skeptical of some of the history especially when people are put in jail and demonized simply for wanting to do more research on the holocaust or questioning facts.

I don't know for sure, but I did see a convincing video on youtube once that talked about how given the officially reported number of murders at a particular concentration camp and the size of the ovens found there how it would be mathematically impossible for them to have killed and cremated that many people. Sorry though I don't have the link.

What is it there to deny? Maybe some stories few overblown and others diminished, but it did happen.

It? That's the problem, what is "it"? Six million? Deliberate mass-scale gassings with cyanide? Was it a deliberate attempt to exterminate all Jews? Were Jews made into lampshades and soap and flowered hats? The "it" of the matter can become pretty vague, and can vary from person to person.

you seem to have confused skepticism with denial. only a fool would deny it happened, but likewise, only a fool would accept the "facts and figures" without first questioning their validity.

Of course Holocaust happened. How can you think jews could lie to you?

who cares about the number of deaths. everyone knows the holocaust happened. point blank. the real question here is WHY did it happen. WHY did hitler have such a hatred for them, and WHAT exactly was he trying to get rid of?

but he knew about the rothschilds and that whole big scheme of where the money really is??

Of course he did. 1-Hitler was part Jewish (I hate to say "part Jewish", because that implies that Jews are a race instead of members of a religion...so I will just say "Hitler had Jewish family members). 2-Someone had to fund his plans (see this reply from further up this thread)

Wel butt how dos u explainn how it hapened? Coz u didnt have proof -_-

Edit: implying serious comment

The fact that any and all ideas are on the table makes for good discussion and freedom. I'm sorry if you disagree with our freedom to think and say whatever we want, but this is r/conspiracy.