I think a lot of people are still just very uneasy about the whole subject, and if the "official story" isn't true, well then they have a lot of things to think about that would make them uncomfortable, and a lot of people don't want to go there...plus it's easier to hop on the bandwagon and just bash anyone who dares to go against what the mass media said happened

[deleted]

Not really, the upvote button was for bringing up posts that add to discussion.

Yep, it's easier to take the blue pill than swallow the red one.

cognitive dissonance

Too many Americans are programmed to treat 9/11 Truthers like Holocaust Deniers. Anytime you question history presented by mainstream sources (books, TV, school), you get thrown into that group of 9/11 whack jobs.

Apparently the programming has worked well.

However in other western countries without this stigma it's pretty common knowledge.

Not just 9/11... try posting about the Fed. Instantly down voted.

and deleted or as someone mentioned here 'ghost banned'.

Which is just mind blowing, considering that the proof is irrefutable that these guys are crooks. Private banking cartels shouldn't be tax exempt.

This is why i think upvoting/downvoting is a flawed system

How would you improve it?

Would it help if we got rid of downvotes?

Agree. If you like the Post-'Upvote'. If not, Ignore.

I'm not sure, but the heart of the problem is that people you neither know or trust are subtly affecting your opinion. This is also known as GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT, because when you believe things that are untrue, you have a very high chance of doing something stupid. You didn't know any better, and that was by design.

This is tragic, because people who have the best of intentions end up doing terrible things. American soldiers don't want to do evil... But they are... And I believe that's why the suicide rate is so high. A life of evil is not worth living so the it's probably the most noble soldiers who are opting out of life.

This needs to stop.

People you neither know, nor like, nor trust should have no sway on your opinion.

The trash must be kept OUT of your mind.

I can buy the official story, I can even buy WTC7.... but the 5 dancing Israelis and the white van on the GW Bridge? THAT is what the rabbit hole really is.

Plus the series of explosions on the ground floor/basement that was reported by news anchors and firefighters, I haven't seen an answer for that either.

/r/NolibsWatch

Yes. I was doing well till a couple of weeks ago then suddenly got hit with these downvote brigades. I can rarely get anything to move more than a few votes. For every upvote I get I get a downvote.

And there may be a cabal. But more and more I suspect the reddit admins. And if they are doing it it is because they are told to do it. We all know about shadow banning but that's easy to detect. But if they have a program to add downvotes to anything someone submits, that would work as well. And that you wouldn't detect except when it breaks the pattern of normal votes and then you'd have no proof.

And I've been here 4 years, have 249k karma, I KNOW how voting runs. And it is getting the first two or three votes that is the hardest. But suddenly I get a downvote for every upvote till I almost always have 0 or 1.

So while there might be the Israeli cabal behind some of it, I think it's a very nasty little country that I've criticized on reddit and that could make me a target, but more and more I think it's reddit. It started when I argued with some mods. They deny its them and it probably isn't, but it did start then.

But they are ruining reddit.

They totally ruined /r/worldnews till it is just a feeder site for corporate media and corporate media comes precensored. I've read how the CIA had agents in all major US media. I suspect reddit has gotten big enough that British Intelligence has taken over /r/worldnews. And someone is doing the same thing to /r/politics. Almost every submission has a corporate logo next to it now.

Well, they fix it so we can't know so I don't.

But I'm thinking of trying digg. See how it runs. See if you can move stuff without being part of a cabal.

Like they're ever going to get that cat back in the bag, LOL

Seems like the tsunami of PR money unleashed prior to a national election imparts a sense of invincibility to the conspiracy; but afterward, the horde of liars, and their lies, submerging the truth always wash back out to sea along with it, leaving the truth jutting even more boldly from the sands of time. We've seen it several times since that particular crime was perpetrated, like a machine stuck in repetitive-but-pointless activity. Exposure is something the conspiracy cannot adapt to, so it keeps doing what it has been programmed to do, whether it works or not.

I tend to agree with you - the down vote numbers are really high.

This sub called for people to massively upvote posts as well, don't act like it's a conspiracy, many subs do this when they see that people disagree with their subs philosophy.

Turn on your Jewdars. Take a good look at WHO is doing this.

Because when in doubt, blame the Jews...

The antisemitism in this subreddit is getting out of hand.

This is the logic of the fascist. The fact that a tiny group of sick individuals may or may not come from a certain demographic says nothing about that demographic as a whole. Blaming Jewish people for the worlds ills is infantile racism.

How many non-Jews..

this sentence here

Which has three subscribers.

How does that tally with "massive organised downvote brigade"?

So, what you're saying is that you have to take orders to downvote from the moderators of subreddits you're subscribed to?

I was not aware of that.

What orders have you received recently from the moderators of /r/conspiracy?

Ha! Are you fucking kidding me? Are you answering a different comment to the one I wrote?

I'll make it crystal clear.

I don't take orders from anyone. To me, Reddit is a source of interesting news and entertainment. Occasionally I'll have a brief chat with someone.

Seriously, how would ordering someone to downvote an article even work?

"You there - downvote all the things!"

Even if you did feel compelled to listen to some ridiculous individual on Reddit ordering you to do something, how the Frigg are they going to know if you actually did it or not?

Haha, it's pretty fucking funny to hear this from a member of r/libertarian and r/ronpaul son!

Even more funny coming from the leader of a hate group on reddit that is friendly towards Nazis. LOL!

Not as funny as a virgin in a Ghostbusters t-shirt that wastes his life away trolling reddit.

I told you that guy isn't me. I've never in my life claimed to be that guy. Never! BTW how did you know he's a virgin?

Projection

Pretty much. I think Lube is just here to harass decent people. He seems perfectly happy to dance alongside the fascists from NLW. That speaks volumes about his (lack of) character.

I don't think that there's any question at all that he's here just to troll. When you look at his comment history it's all he does. It's actually kind of pathetic that he finds his own life so empty and devoid of meaning that the only was he can find gratification is to go on web sites like Reddit and attack pretty much everyone that might disagree with his paranoid opinions and rants.

LOL son! Who's projecting now? I think you'd find my primary account's comment history to be fairly innocuous. This one, not so much, since I had to separate my normal redditing activities in order to avoid the incessant stalking of Nolibs et.al.

EDIT: Care to expand on what these supposed "paranoid opinions and rants" are? I mean one that isn't clearly a farcical jab at the paultard-tards. I don't recall a single comment or post that I've made that would even come close to fitting that description.

The EPSers specialty is making accusations without evidence and then running away. Herky is a master of it.

Thank you for making my point, troll.

And thank you for making mine, son! I'll be waiting for you to explain which of my comments you consider to be paranoid or ranting. Opinionated I'll grant you.

I think you'd find my primary account's comment history to be fairly innocuous.

"You drunk already or still hammered from last night?"

"You must have some sort of chemical imbalance or something."

"I hope you guys live in a state that allows gay marriage. I support your right to wed and be equal!"

"You must be a giant pussy IRL though"

"I freely admit to using this account to troll you and Nolibs and the numerous infants that suckle on your limp puds in your circlejerk subreddits."

These are recent comments made by you simply to attempt to belittle or intimidate other Redditors. No attempt at actually adding to the conversation or posting anything that isn't attacking someone. You even admit to being a troll. I think this says everything that needs to be said about you.

Nothing there is any worse than what Nolibs et. al. engage in on a regular basis. Attempting to have a conversation with you guys is pointless. You guys aren't interested in conversation. You don't pick your targets to have a conversation with them. You guys troll, period. Any opinion that isn't covered in the flying jizz of your circlejerk is just fodder for your x-posting troll machine. At least I admit that what this account does is pointless trolling. Still waiting on examples of paranoid and ranting.

[deleted]

I remember when I tried to explain hypocrisy to you but apparently your feeble little mind couldn't see what you and your Ron Paul fanboys have been doing for years now. There is a sub that was organized simply to attack anyone who's opinions is different from their own. That sub is /r/NolibsWatch and it's populated mainly by scum like yourself. Your pathetic attempts to intimidate or harass me and everyone else who is opposed to putting a racist, doddering old fool in the White House simply exposes you for what you are.

Now, shoo. I have better things to do than read your inane little comments.

I think the poor guy has some deep pysological problems, with a sense of humor like that of a 12 year old's. Just yesterday he saw a comment of mine when I was talking about manure for the garden and he just went on about how I've got some "endless supply of bullshit" or whatever. After I told him how sad he was a few NLW sockpuppet accounts came in to agree with Lube about how funny his pathetic jokes were. Honestly it's so pathetic it's somewhat comical since I know that he really is quite a bit older than 12.

I think the poor guy has some deep pysological problems, with a sense of humor like that of a 12 year old's.

I'd rather have the humor of a twelve year old than the spelling of one, son!

Are you implying the Jews are behind this spate of downvotes?

Hehe. Smearing Rachel Corrie.

[deleted]

Thank you for proving my point.

Hello!

They know they're getting fucked but don't want to know how or why.

They've already decided it's the dirty muslims without turning around to check.

"As long as I get 3 meals a day and a sitcom, everything will be fine."

While the empire expands, that's all Americans have left - bread and circuses.

The worst are the lhc (large hadron collider) cern pr people.

But yeah there are lots of groups trying to use this site to control others, especially now that it has become more mainstream.

Could you expand on that please?

Exactly why would the LHC require downvote brigades?

Also, do you think there's something negative with the LHC?

nice try cern pr

You know if you presents actual facts based on evidence then they might believe you.

The use of italics, bold, and ALL CAPS doesn't help get a message across either.

You know if you presents actual facts based on evidence then they might believe you.

No. That won't help either.

Yes it will. There are plenty of rational people out there that hear and believe facts. If you can actually show something to people, some of them will accept it.

Misinformation and spouting theories as facts is no better than the worst of Fox, and just drives away the truly intelligent people that could actually help uncover truth. And if it wins anyone over, it's by lies which I personally could never stand for, and only attracts those that can't think critically.

Yes it will.

No it won't. Generally speaking - no it won't.

There are plenty of rational people out there that hear and believe facts.

You'd be surprised at how often and quickly the supposed rational mind cowers and rebels when it's presented with rational evidence suggesting and showing that the world is VERY, VERY different than how we've been brought up to believe it is.

You see, rationality is often nothing more than a thinly veiled vestige of emotional security brought upon by years of societal conditioning since childhood (infancy actually). Oftentime, what one is brought up to believe is true during their formative years they cling to regardless of whether or not they get data possibly contradicting it.

This, of course, does not apply to everything, but one would simply be remiss in thinking that human beings are more rational than they are. Often, we are little more than a thin veil of faux rationality thinly covering a mountain of charged emotional perspectives.

If you can actually show something to people, some of them will accept it.

Yes. Some of them will. Depending on what that something is, however, that "some" will be a very small percentage. As much as we'd like to not believe this, I'm sure both you and I would likely have been two of the untold many that believed the world was flat way back in the day. I'm sure we would have also been in the group crying "Crazy lunatic!" to the first person to propose that it the planet was, in fact, round.

Misinformation and spouting theories as facts is no better than the worst of Fox

Oh and no one here is arguing with that - at least not I. This statement was not even necessary, as it was not even part of my point to allege anything different from this you mention sentiment here.

and just drives away the truly intelligent people that could actually help uncover truth.

Well, it depends on who and what you consider "truly intelligent". You'd be surprised at how many PhDs, doctors, and scientists are just as dogmatic and rigid in their way of looking at things as the next religious bigot. You might also be surprised at just how much knowledge you can find living between the ears of some people most would consider loony or insane.

And if it wins anyone over, it's by lies which I personally could never stand for, and only attracts those that can't think critically.

Again, this is fair. I personally fully agree with this and the sentiment. However, even the theory of critical thinking must be critically analyzed and examined for the faults that might exist within.

There are simply so many variables involved regarding certain issues that one would be ill-advised to write almost anyone off as loony or uncritical. Even in the craziest theories, remnants of the truth might be found that may not be contained anywhere else.

So.. you really think that we should spread misinformation and exaggerations in hopes of tricking people to believe what you believe?? Or just take issue with anyone believing in others? Or have zero belief in others yourself and have to convince everyone of that (which is a paradox in itself)?

If none of those, I'm not sure where the argument is except that you want to talk generally and I think the individual is worth the effort

(I want to add that I did not downvote you and I'm sorry that happened. I'll spend an upvote to rectify, I think ours is a valid discussion and that you have good points)

So.. you really think that we should spread misinformation and exaggerations in hopes of tricking people to believe what you believe??

Wow. Come one, man. Please, pllleeeease don't prove me wrong in giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking that you just might not be a complete idiot.

Did you read or understand anything that I said? Let me try it again:

I said that it is important to understand that there is validity and truth in a LOT of things that we might not initially think are such.

Also, look at your sentence and its structure:

So.. you really think that we should spread misinformation and exaggerations in hopes of tricking people to believe what you believe?? Or just take issue with anyone believing in others?

This can also be justifiably looked at and interpreted in the following manner:

So.. you really think that we should...just take issue with anyone believing in others?

Do you really mean that? You really think I'm saying that we should "just take issue with anyone believe in others?"?

Man . . . [deep breath here]. Again, come on now. Please. Some critical thinking on your part is really needed. You're like literally falling directly into the hole you tried to dig in your previous statement.

Or have zero belief in others yourself and have to convince everyone of that (which is a paradox in itself)?

What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, man. What the fuck?

If none of those...

No. None of these. Not even close.

I'm not sure where the argument is

There is no argument on my part. I'm just saying people shouldn't tend to discount data as quickly as they often do.

except that you want to talk generally and I think the individual is worth the effort

. . . perhaps English is not your first or native language. Not quite sure, again, what was just said here.

Since it has never actually been attempted how do you know?

The fact that you would make such an almost unimaginably asinine statement and not understand the humiliating contradiction it involves - one whose monumental ignorance even the vilest troll would have to acknowledge and bow down in humble subservience to - proves my point better than I could have ever done myself.

Thank you.

Actually I know fully well what I said. r/conspiracy - for the most part - doesn't give a damn about any evidence that doesn't mesh with what you know to be true.

It is almost exactly like debating young earth creationists.

Actually I know fully well what I said. r/conspiracy

...which makes the frightening stupidity demonstrated all the more impressive.

r/conspiracy - for the most part - doesn't give a damn about any evidence that doesn't mesh with what you know to be true.

I'm personally not speaking with regard to or dealing with r/conspiracy as a whole. I'm talking about ME. Even so, however, r/conspiracy has it's finger a LOT closer than almost any other subreddit to the pulse of just how fucked up things are on this planet, so even though there are a few posts that stray a bit left of the field, anyone would be approaching the very apex of uncritical thinking if they disregarded the slew of valid posts simply because some in the group were not sound.

It is almost exactly like debating young earth creationists.

Yet you would actually be entirely erred if you discarded all the proclamations made by even such individuals. I've not spent too much if any time debating young earth creationists or looking into what they say, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if there is a specific something in their theories that is not only true, but unlocks a particular piece of the overall puzzle that other theories that are overall a lot more sound might have entirely missed.

Such is the manner that things work on this planet, and anyone unaware of this reality does themselves a great, great disservice.

but I personally wouldn't be surprised if there is a specific something in their theories that is not only true

They think that the Earth is 6,000 years old. That is impossible.

And, if you people have it right, why are you still alive?

And, if you people have it right, why are you still alive?

Don't say "you people" in an alienating and discarding kind of way. You're part of them, as am I, as is everyone. "You people" doesn't represent me, because I didn't then nor am I now claiming creationism as being the "only" answer. I didn't say that then, nor am I saying that now.

That doesn't matter though, because I'm also not saying that they're all wrong either.

If these 9/11 theories happen to be paranoia bullshit, then all that downvoting and shunning would make sense, right ? Because you would be part of group of crazies..

Sorry I downvote anything 911 just because I'm tired of hearing of it. It may be a conspiracy but worse things happen many times in the world every year.

[deleted]

Would it help if we got rid of downvotes?

cognitive dissonance

I'm not sure, but the heart of the problem is that people you neither know or trust are subtly affecting your opinion. This is also known as GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT, because when you believe things that are untrue, you have a very high chance of doing something stupid. You didn't know any better, and that was by design.

This is tragic, because people who have the best of intentions end up doing terrible things. American soldiers don't want to do evil... But they are... And I believe that's why the suicide rate is so high. A life of evil is not worth living so the it's probably the most noble soldiers who are opting out of life.

This needs to stop.

People you neither know, nor like, nor trust should have no sway on your opinion.

The trash must be kept OUT of your mind.

Agree. If you like the Post-'Upvote'. If not, Ignore.

Yep, it's easier to take the blue pill than swallow the red one.

And, if you people have it right, why are you still alive?

Don't say "you people" in an alienating and discarding kind of way. You're part of them, as am I, as is everyone. "You people" doesn't represent me, because I didn't then nor am I now claiming creationism as being the "only" answer. I didn't say that then, nor am I saying that now.

That doesn't matter though, because I'm also not saying that they're all wrong either.